Rolling yer own

Jimmie in Ky · March 01, 2009, 07:07:32 PM

Anybody here doing that? Building your own bow and shafts? I already have some staves from blacklocust and cane for arrows. I would also like to hear what you thing about selling staves , would there be a market for them? I have numerous small trees of various species that will have to go after this ice storm. And now is the time to cut staves if I am going to. Jimmie

alscalls · March 01, 2009, 07:55:39 PM

I have built a couple of bows in years past Jimmie......What would you like to know.....I can only speak from my experiences.
I have never made my own arrows though.
I would imagine the market for the bows would be better if the price were lower......the arrows? Not sure about.

pitw · March 01, 2009, 08:09:33 PM

Here I thought I could finally help someone on the forum and I find you talking about archery. No help from me here.

FinsnFur · March 01, 2009, 09:25:44 PM

:roflmao: Barry

Jimmie in Ky · March 01, 2009, 11:50:57 PM

Did you build board bows or stave bows and which was easier to work with?

I was aking about the possible market because I would rather they went to something useful than as firewood. I will have enopugh junk for firewood and would prefer these straight young trees were put to a much better use. I have ash, elm,cherry,sasafras, oak, hickory and mulberry that will all have to be cut. Jimmie

pitw · March 02, 2009, 07:34:45 AM

Jimmie don't forget the black powder market. I and probably a few thousand others could use some straight hickory or ash as ramrods for our muzzle loaders. I use old original front loaders so am always looking for that kind of thing.
Barry

vvarmitr · March 02, 2009, 07:48:48 AM

Is the Locust to bad to make fence post? I looked all over BFE w/ no luck trying to find a few 10' BL posts.

alscalls · March 02, 2009, 08:04:37 AM

I do not know what you mean with those fancy terms.........I learnt from an old fella a long long time ago and I aint near as good as he was but here goes.......
We would not use a real young tree as they have unseen knots in them that have not fully healed yet and can cause the bow to break. You want say a Hickory about 8-10 Dia. A couple of feet longer than your bow will be to allow checking.
Some folks split em green some dry em first. This guy swore that if ya split it green into 1/4 sections and removed the bark.......then hang the tree quarters but end up you would find a good bow in 1 in 5 pieces after they dried. he claimed the cracks would tell you. I think it is better to dry the whole tree first butt end up and sealing the ends. Then split it lenghtwise into 1/4 sections and let it sit longer.
Ya choose your piece after it is to your liking moisture wise and cut the general shape of your bow with a draw knife or band saw.....LEAVING THE BARK SIDE UNTOUCHED other than removing the bark. The face of the bow must be of the same growth ring full length or it will break!
You set two dowel rods in a stable surface for pulling and testing........Leaving the limbs fairly wide at the riser. You mark three lines on your bow....Center........and where the riser will end and the limbs begin equally on each side of this line.
The distance of the two outer lines is how far appart you set your dowels for pulling and testing.
Take a small piece of thin flat steel and grind the flat edge till a burr shows on the sides without getting the steel hot.
use the steel too scrape away wood to a smoother surface and a better shape then cut your notches for the string string it with a string that is too long and set your marks on the corresponding dowels......
Pull gently and mark where each limb pulls too one will pull a different shape than the other because of the trunk end of the tree is of a different density than the top. You must shave the one that pulls the least to match. (You be sure to cut the riser fully with the arrow rest on the trunk end first this helped me.)
All carving is on the side facing the shooter and the sides....NEVER the face of the bow.
I know I have not covered it all yet.......I hope this helps you some my friend.......Ask away as I have been there so I know I can help. Remember less is more. check your bends a lot. I have seen some of your wood work....you will make a fine bow.

Jimmie in Ky · March 02, 2009, 01:18:53 PM

VV I have all the straight locust for post your truck could handle. And can cut them about any length. Cured green and otherwise. I can even manage a few mulberry and sasafras as well. Getting them out will be the big pain in the butt.

I had not thought about the black powder folk. I had thought about making shafts out of the extra ash after taking out the staves. There will be several of these cut before I am through. I don't know how many hickory yet , or even if they will make a decent stave or anything else. I may be able to rig something up to shave these to size.

Al I have all the tools I need except a scraper. I have never been good at sharpening one yet but I keep trying to make them. If you can believe that from a man who has made his own spokeshaves. Wife is about half ill with me for spending extra time on the net these days. I have been looking for any sites with info and the best I have found is the fellows at paleoplanet. They are more like us and share everything they know quite readily. There are tutorials on anything you can imagine over there. Including a fish trap I tried to describe to Bopeye once. I have seen everything done over there except chainsaw damascus. I am even thinking seriously about a forge myself.

I have also learned what woods need to have a ring chased and what woods can be done as you described in your post. Woods for arrow materials and how to work them. I do not fully understand the heat tempering of bows just yet but the idea sounds very interesting for other aplications as well. Possible even curing call wood and giving a better finish as well.

A lto of info out there when you look for it. Jimmie

vvarmitr · March 03, 2009, 06:44:38 AM

I wish those could do me some good Jimmie, but I already bought treated 4x4s.

I bought a special paint to treat the ends so they won't rot so fast.
What I was meaning for ya is there is a market out there for locust post. You could check w/ fence companies or some farmers exchange. Nice thing about locust post is you can split 'em & stack 'em & as long as you keep 'em up off the ground (@ 18") they'll keep for years.

Is any of the sassafras saw logs? I think sassafras makes the best wall paneling.

It has a sheen about it that reflects light & then w/ that mellow brown color it gives a room that cozy home feeling.

Not familiar w/ mulberry.

vvarmitr · March 03, 2009, 09:12:53 AM

Here is a link on sharping scrapers ...
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/A_Better_Way_to_Sharpen_Scrapers/

Unless you're talking about turning scrapers?

But you wouldn't be using them on a bow.

The way I was taught wasn't so involved & was simple. We had a slight angle on the edge. (50 -60*) Remove the old burr w/ a file then stone it on the edge of your whetstone. Then w/ a 1/4" drill bit w/ a smooth shank we'd burnish the edge w/ the shank at a slight angle to the bevel.
Maybe you're getting it sharp, but aren't putting a bow to the steel?

Getting a forge? That would be cool!

Jimmie in Ky · March 03, 2009, 01:24:06 PM

VV i have read and reread that one and I am still doing somethijg worng. Just not sure what it is. I get fine dust but not the fine curled shavings I should be getting. I have been using old saw blades to ,make them and I may be using too tough a steel for them. Not able to get that fine curl on them.

I have sold fence post in the past as well. And I happen to agree with the sasfras making some goergous paneling and furniture. I have used it in thicker proportions for stools and such. In fact you can see one in th porch pic if you look hard. It's the red thing behind te big oak limb.

Did not even damage it when it took the locust rail off the porch.

Come on fellas keep them coming, this is not a pine cabinet or a call. Its a spring and it is new to me. I am going to nock out a mulbery stave this afternoon and take it to floor tiller at the rough stage to dry. Jimmie

alscalls · March 03, 2009, 10:10:09 PM

Try a glass scraper .........freshly broken or cut glass will make for a fine scraper......wear gloves though.
A saw blade may be too hard and the curl on the edge will be brittle. Small chunks of the curl will break off making for an uneven edge. Softer steel will work better for a scraper cause you will be resharpening often anyway.

Jimmie in Ky · March 04, 2009, 03:33:09 AM

I just anealed a couple of mower blades. They might worksince the temper is taken out of them. Broken coke bottle was my grandfathers favorite scraper . I should have thought of that one myself. But I would still like to learn how to make such tools for my own use. Jimmie

alscalls · March 04, 2009, 05:41:35 AM

When you say "I just annealed a couple of mower blades" In What way did you go about this? Metallurgy is something I studied in collage and It interests me.........

KySongDog · March 04, 2009, 06:25:19 AM

Jimmie

You might consider cutting some mine props. Underground coal mines use lots of 'em.

vvarmitr · March 04, 2009, 07:18:54 AM

Mower blades? Annealed to make a scraper?

Now ya got me wondering!

When you said you used a saw blade for a scraper was that a handsaw or circular saw?

AL: so you studied Metallurgy.

I'd like to pick your brain on some stuff.

I've put burrs on carbide shaper cutters.

Shavings would come off the shaper looking like someone exploded a goose.

alscalls · March 04, 2009, 11:15:46 AM

Inconsistent shavings like that usually mean the steel is too hard......softer metal will do the job ......remember you are only scraping wood, so hardness is not what you need.....flexible yes hard no. To re introduce heat to steel and re temper it is not the way to go in my book. once it has been tempered It is near impossible to soften it though you can harden it some. A higher carbon content will be easier to sharpen and the burr will bend as apposed to break into an uneven burr.
you want the scrapper to flex to the shape you want and be easy to re sharpen (re burr).

Jimmie in Ky · March 04, 2009, 08:45:28 PM

I used handsaw blades in my earlier attempts at making scrapers. Just cut out sections and sharpened them as described. Thye amy have been to hard. It may be possible to get that thing back out and throw it in the fire a while. That is if I can find it

I call it anealing. I basically threw them in the wood stove overnight and pitched them out on the ground in the morning to cool. They had an orange glow to them when I took them out. They should be soft enough to work with shaping tools and are a high carbon steel from what I can find out. Planned on using them for knife blades and retempering. Jimmie

alscalls · March 04, 2009, 08:57:08 PM

Get you a thin piece of cold rolled......put it in the wood stove......then drop it in used motor oil jimmie......then tell me how that works for ya.

Should be hard enough for what you want and not so hard as to be brittle......DO Not use water.
If you want to use the saw blade.......leave it in the wood stove to cool slowly as the stove does do not even let the air hit it till its cold.

That may sofften it some