A new idea

Jrbhunter · December 05, 2006, 02:49:00 PM

What I said about your "Consistantly" calling coyotes... and them not being under the same type of pressure we're discussing- it still stands. I have tried to say the same thing three different ways but apparently it isn't coming across clearly. I kill coyotes in the same manor Steve, consistantly amidst hunters and other pressure, but my point is that THOSE dead coyotes were not the ones that gave up all normailty of life to live in a bomb shelter.

I can take you to places that hold coyotes who shiver in fear all day long... piss and shit in their beds for fear of leaving it's safety... those coyotes are NEARLY uncallable. I assume not totally- but again the odds tell me that I'm wasting my time for a 1/50 chance when there are 1/10 chances elsewhere.

If you ask your mentor I believe he will give you similar information about the eastern/western numbers and structures. He and I discussed some of those studies in Arizona so I know he's familiar, the differences are something you cannot ignore. Those numbers and stuctures DO CHANGE how coyotes deal with things like the pressure we're discussing. The family units and dispersal patterns are different- meaning the concept of manipulating them is different. There are a lot of opinions we can disagree on but those raw facts aren't really nagotiable.

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SteveCriner--> "Some of us have to and chose to. Just a way of life for some that don't have the access."
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Oh come on, my quote about hunting a little bit comes from statements like that Steve, where some folks think they have it so rough... and their experience much deeper... that my experience seems insignifigant. I tried to tell you what years of hunting here (closer to JimmyinKY than anyone else in this thread) has taught me, and you came back with broad-based logic developed in the desert. Your newfound theory of comfort zones is similar to this "new idea" of calling pressured coyotes... not so new to some.

I cannot convey the information the way I would like too in this thread so I'm going to stop... I feel confident in everything I said, we'll just have to print this out and discuss it over a campfire sometime.

keekee · December 05, 2006, 04:13:51 PM

If you ask your mentor I believe he will give you similar information about the eastern/western numbers and structures. He and I discussed some of those studies in Arizona so I know he's familiar, the differences are something you cannot ignore. Those numbers and structures DO CHANGE how coyotes deal with things like the pressure we're discussing. The family units and dispersal patterns are different- meaning the concept of manipulating them is different. There are a lot of opinions we can disagree on but those raw facts aren't really negotiable.

JRB....This is true, the numbers game plays a big difference in allot of things as you said. And it changes things as well.

I don't think this is a East or West debate, We were talking comfort zones due to pressure, and pressure is there no matter weather you are East or West, diffrent but still there. There are areas out west were the coyotes are just as hard to call as anywere else you will hunt. But there are more of them! Its the change in tactic's that I was talking about, if I am calling pressured coyotes no matter were I am at, I change, and you do as well, we haft to to kill coyotes if we are forced to call these areas.

And I think you can sure use tactic's learned out west on eastern coyotes, I done it here before I even set foot out west, yes things are diffrent but adapting to the change is what makes us all good callers, no matter were your at. And at the the same time you can use tactic's learned from the East on Western coyotes.

I see your point well to. Things are diffrent. Jimmie hunts allot of area that is just like I hunt here, I have hunted both KY right were Jimmie calls, and Indy and there are allot of diffrent areas in all three states that have factors in all this.

Everyone has a difference of oppinion don't get all personal on me here guys. Thats why we are all here posting. You can post just about anything you want here with out being deleted, but were all here for the same reason and thats to share debate and talk predators. Just don't take any of this personal. We welcome all input and feed back from everyone.

Brent

Bopeye · December 05, 2006, 04:33:39 PM

Just remember, "Our perception is our reality".

I love the ideas that are here.......that's why I come. Every now and then I read, see, or hear about something that makes me want to try it where I hunt. If it wasn't for these boards we wouldn't have the chance to constantly be evaluating the way we hunt.

Having said that.........learning to hunt from a board is gonna be tough. Read and absorb what you can, but in the end you just have to get out there and give it a whirl. I see personal styles coming into play almost as much as anything on these boards.
Some like handcalls only, while others use E-callers. Some use both.
Some prefer rifles while others shotguns.
Reloading as opposed to buying off the shelf.
The list goes on and on.

Our coyote hunting experience is very much a part of our personality.....our likes and dislikes.

I enjoy reading folks take on this fascinating game we call "predator hunting".

Shoot.......I'm trying to incorporate the use of dogs here in the south-east for coyote hunting.
Is it gonna be a very successful tactic?.............Don't know yet, but we'll see.

stevecriner · December 05, 2006, 05:35:43 PM

>

QuoteOh come on, my quote about hunting a little bit comes from statements like that Steve, where some folks think they have it so rough... and their experience much deeper... that my experience seems insignifigant. I tried to tell you what years of hunting here (closer to JimmyinKY than anyone else in this thread) has taught me, and you came back with broad-based logic developed in the desert. Your newfound theory of comfort zones is similar to this "new idea" of calling pressured coyotes... not so new to some.

Quotenot so new to some

No shit! JRB, I dont think i have it tough at all. Yes i do have to, and yes i choose to. And you think this is my new found theory? You come on. I discussed this long ago before i even met any body from out west. Good poke though! Yes i agree that coyotes handle presure diffrent in every region. But like i said in my last reply. I guess i just havent expierianced coyotes shut down all the normality of there life.

QuoteOh come on, my quote about hunting a little bit comes from statements like that Steve, where some folks think they have it so rough... and their experience much deeper... that my experience seems insignifigant.

And then i said.

QuoteYou know the more i think about it i wonder. Why would you even say this. Why would you think we thought that. You prolly been huntin longer than me. Besides im self proclaimed!! I just thought i would throw that out there.

Here im all nice and you get defensive. I guess thats what i get when i discuss topics with someone of your class someone that knows it all. You seem to think these are my new found theories........ like i said im self proclaimed i guess and i copy paste this shit from other people with a lil more knowledge than me. I aint afraid to admit that Im not past learning. I admit i dont know as much on coyotes as alot but i was just discussing. You on the other hand gets bent because someone dont agree with you and thinks that we are not acknowledging you expieriance. Boy are you wrong.

Quote[I cannot convey the information the way I would like too in this thread so I'm going to stop... I feel confident in everything I said, we'll just have to print this out and discuss it over a campfire sometime.

You conveyed it just fine. I just dont agree with some of it. I didnt say all i just said some. And also if we dont agree now why would we at a campfire?

QuoteIf you ask your mentor I believe he will give you similar information about the eastern/western numbers and structures. He and I discussed some of those studies in Arizona so I know he's familiar, the differences are something you cannot ignore. Those numbers and stuctures DO CHANGE how coyotes deal with things like the pressure we're discussing. The family units and dispersal patterns are different- meaning the concept of manipulating them is different. There are a lot of opinions we can disagree on but those raw facts aren't really nagotiable.

Im not diagreeing on this. But i will say this,the coyotes here are much like the ones we hunted in AZ at the campout. I dont really give a rats ass about numbers and structure rigjht now. Im just saying that i guess theres no diffrence between here and arizona when it comes to calling. I aint from Indiana so i wont argue no more. And im sure since you live close to KY they are difrent there to.

Jrbhunter · December 05, 2006, 09:07:54 PM

Steve, if you feel I am mad, angry or agitated in any way you are mistaken and I apologize for fooling you with my words. I'm gathering that from the phrase "Get bent" which I assume means I would be upset. ?

I don't want anyone to agree with me, I've seen it happen once or twice before and it wasn't nearly this fun and educational. I'm sorry if your theories of comfort zones came long before you came online... I must've been misled. A lot of your talk in the chatroom with Tim seems to be direct regurgetation of Rich's theories... I didn't know you worked from those theories before he was around. My bad- wouldn't matter either way... still good solid platforms to call coyotes from no matter when you were introduced to them.

I don't get into quoting somone over and over again, but I'm fairly certain you've used research and western phylosophy as gosphel a time or two, then thrown it all out the window elsewhere. Your last statement about not caring about numbers or pack structure kinda voids all your other research based input in my opinion... you cannot skip the basic fundamentals of regional coyote behavior then pick and chose studies or patterns.

The reason I think we'd be better off discussing this around a campfire is that I can express my thoughts better in person. Without typing and coming off so straight laced and hardcore. And, you'd have to admit, you have a tendancy of wearing your heart on your sleeve online. I don't think we're "THAT" far apart in phylosophy, again I made a stand today that fits this criteria... I'm not ADAMANATLY stating anything. Just giving a little input on something myself and MY MENTORS have dealt with over the years.

FinsnFur · December 05, 2006, 09:19:25 PM

I'm hoping we can use this thread, and a lot of the other pinned ones in here, in our new reference area.

You guys are posting some good informative stuff for the next guy that may come along and pull this thread looking to help himself out.

Let's not spoil the thread by kicking rocks at each other for what they may or may not believe.
Ya know wether anyone wants to admit it or not, it's the many variations of opinions that got YOU where you are..... when you were learning.
Let's help someone else out.

Just because you or I do it differently doesn't mean it's wrong. Coyotes don't have text books.

Jimmie in Ky · December 06, 2006, 11:02:49 AM

I too run as many stands as possible during the time I have to hunt. But I want those stands to be as productive as possible. And studying the problems a bit helps to do that. It's a matter of how many stands you want to make between kills.

This sport is growing faster than any other. I can't go in a store today and not hear folks talking coyote instead of deer and small game. The racks of calls have already been trashed anywhere you care to look around here. This normally doesn't happen until lanuary. There is now a small army of hunters out there , when just a few years ago we had the woods mainly to ourselves when it comes to calling coyotes. I don't have the option of hunting during the week anymore. I have to get out there when I can with the rest of them. Thankfully they won't be using the sounds and calls I will , giving me a fair chance at calling a few animals. And along with all of these will be the die hard deer and small game hunters working the woods too.

I think a coyote is going to put his nose to the wind and go on about it's bussiness under this type of pressure. He needs to feed and rest and he will do so . I am not so sure we can predict the destinations but I do believe we can predict the routes they will take out of an area if we think about the factors involved. This will give me somewhat of a chance when I see a vehicle parked in an area I intended to call. Not all the animals will move at the same time nor along the same exact route. But if I am thinking in such terms then I can make those stands in more productive areas. Jimmie

stevecriner · December 07, 2006, 10:23:56 PM

I have learnt some stuff over the past few hours and i think im not a hundred percent right, But i dont think any of us are and thats whats so good about coyote huntin. Keep on with them replies and lets get some figure'un done.

Jimmie in Ky · December 10, 2006, 12:30:19 PM

You know , it hasn't been all that many years since I went to all mouth calls for th same reason. Competition and hunter pressure. They were and are still jumping in this thing with e-callers because of a lack of knowledge and confidence. I got a little complacent with my thinking on the subject and got into a rut sort of. I haven't thought about the competition and how they work or how the animals react to them.

If you hunt at night and don't hunt the five nights of the full moon phase, your missing something. You have to work it diferently to be succesful but it can be the hottest part of the month for you.

You always have to ask questions and think things through. Try diferent things and learn more . If they are succesful , you have a new tool to use. If Not, then nothing lost but still more knowledge gained. Jimmie

Jrbhunter · December 10, 2006, 12:43:28 PM

Jimmy, are you saying you can personally kill more coyotes under a big moon than other phases? As a general rule, you would advise calling your hot spots under a big moon... assuming we knew the tricks you do? I find that interesting, could you post more info in Jim's moon phase thread?