You have got to be kidding me :iroll:
I'm a FoxPro fan myself...but tactics like this have really got me to wondering about their integrity.
FoxPro's new Open Country
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/RiverBoy/junk/occ4.jpg)
Minaska's Big Country
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/RiverBoy/junk/bcb2sm.jpg)
"Often Imitated Never Equaled"....back to the drawing board with that one eh? (http://www.championtannery.com/smilies/hammerhead.gif)
(http://www.championtannery.com/smilies/fan2.gif)
:confused: Couldn't find it on their site or forum. Hope your kidding! :rolleye:
Here is a better pic of the All In One caller by Minaska.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Plumbrich/Calls-Callers/UO2.jpg)
I seen this subject posted on another site also and so far I have seen 3 complete threads deleted. :doh2: usually I see Foxpro post all there new stuff on that board this time AP posted it. I guess they new there was going to be flack about this. I don't think bad of AP. I like buying stuff from them and have always gotten great service and fast service from them.
I have read thread after thread about how they say the FX5 is better than Minaska's Big Country All In One and now they go and make one just like it. :confused: I am sure we will hear how the foxpro remote is so much better and Foxpro has better sound Quality Foxpro's battery last longer and BLA BLA BLA :sleep:
Now when someone says I like the Minaska better because........ Foxpro or a crony will say hey we got one just like it "But our's is better".
I watched those threads unfold also. They all got wiped out and the mods had a gang pile on some members saying excactly what we are saying here.
Pretty sad isn't it? That is why I changed my sig line yesterday. after seeing foxpro's latest release, I just had to.
Come on foxpro, do you have to make it so obvious when you copy? You have been disecting WT's for years trying to get ideas, now this?????
I've got the Minaska Bandit M-1 and really like it. Small, light weight and works perfect in the woods. Comes with 100 sounds too but I'll probably never use all of them.
The Foxpro Scorpion looks similar to the Bandit M-1 to me. Sure looks like FP is chasing Minaska. :wo:
Quote from: browning204 on February 24, 2008, 03:13:49 PM
I watched those threads unfold also. They all got wiped out and the mods had a gang pile on some members saying excactly what we are saying here.
Pretty sad isn't it? That is why I changed my sig line yesterday. after seeing foxpro's latest release, I just had to.
Come on foxpro, do you have to make it so obvious when you copy? You have been disecting WT's for years trying to get ideas, now this?????
Yeah you best not be going to PM and airing negative comments about an advertiser more particularly, Foxpro. You can only post really good things about them over there. Try to post something that doesnt stroke the FP's ego and you'll get one of these. "
Sorry but you'll need to take that up with Foxpro, this isnt the place for comments like this." :roflmao:
Well at least their admitting it.
Quote from: Semp on February 24, 2008, 03:40:25 PM
.
The Foxpro Scorpion looks similar to the Bandit M-1 to me. Sure looks like FP is chasing Minaska. :wo:
You have that correct!!!
As far as what Jimbo said, he couldn't be more correct either. Don't you dare say a negetive thing about foxpro or else! But slam Minaska or WT and then it is a fun little Dog pile. I am so glad that I don't post over there and I have this place to hang.
One guy used the term "Foxaska" jokingly & the new mod over there,, dogpile or dogboy or whatever ,, threatened to ban him. :laf: I gotta go see what they did to my post now. :eyebrow:
:laf: Completely gone!! :laf:
In looking at the photo, it appears that an SP-55 speaker has been mounted on the front of a FoxPro Prairie Blaster. Here in America we have a system of business practice that is called free enterprise. I see no problem with FoxPro's integrity here. Sorry to be the big bubble buster here, but that is my honest take on the situation.
yes Rich and your point is good but, They (foxpro) claim to be industry leaders. "lead by design not deception" and what ever hoopla they wanna say.
Then why are the copying Minaska if they are leaders?
How ever you slice it, it's a rip off from Minaska.
I take great pride in being the originator of the term "FoxAska"..:yoyo:...which I have now licensed out to the wise man who linked me to FnF, that being Browning204... :bowingsmilie:..as far as the PM site goes, and all those light headed, light loafered couch commando mo-DUH-rators,...... :argh:..... they can delete my posts and ban me, BUT THEYLL NEVER TAKE MY FREEDOM!!!! (William Wallace)...:)
I had known that they were going to be doing something like this since back in october. I had asked em if it was possible to incorperate a decoy into a fx5 because I liked the way the minaska was put together but I like the convience of going to foxpro and getting stuff changed custom to my liking. seems like a well put together unit from the pictures. did they copy minaska? I aint sure how to play that one. just because minaska was the first to do it does not make it a right to be the only one. however I am not going to say that the foxpro one is better then the minaska without messin with it. whatever floats peoples boats should be what a person decides on. I do like the remote on the foxpro but without messin with the minaska remote no one can make a detail opinion on which one they like. I did not see the posts on pm but I imagine it got ugly over there. It does look like the foxpro has one of them smaller speakers on the back of the unit.
Hey Nasty, glad you made it. As I said, you will like it here. All the guys are wicked cool and this is a good place to hang.
Nasty and I know each other from NHW&W and we trade shots every now and again. He uses a foxpro and I of course have the WT.
He is an ok guy but doesn't answer his phone!
browning204,
I went back and looked at the new FoxPro caller again. I think all that they actually are doing is offering their already present Snow Pro Crow caller with a different speaker. They did add a decoy on top, which was a nice touch. I can understand why some folks are taking offense to this new caller, I just don't see it as a copy right infringement or an integrity problem. It is a non issue to me.
Thanks for the welcome browning.....as far as the caller, i own and like my foxpro...i didnt try to get involved in all the stuff at PMS between foxpro and minaska, but got jumped on for stating the obvious, along with others, that the foxpro call looks just like a minaska call....if it looks like a duck....quacks like a duck.......
Rich, I respect you very much for what you have done for the coyote hunting sport so please don't think I am argueing with you.
No one said copy right infringment. But they (foxpro) run around like their crap is ice cream and have the protection of the PM mods.
All to just copy minaska's callers.
If they are so high on the hog then think of your own designs. What happened, is the flashlight look not selling no more?
"If they are so high on the hog then think of your own designs. What happened, is the flashlight look not selling no more?"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Browning,
I know that you are not trying to give me a hard time. Don't worry about that. :biggrin: You have a good point with your "flashlight look" comment. I don't know how much my input had to do with the new FoxPro caller, but I did suggest a new caller recently that looked almost exactly like the new FoxPro rig. Even the coon tailed decoy on there was part of my dream caller. Now I want one real bad. Maybe if I tell Steve Dillon about a calling trip I hope to take next month, I could convince him
That my north texas calling safari would not be complete without one of those new controversial callers?
Rich, that idea just might work! if you can get a freebee then great!!
listen, it all boils down to: Why did foxpro let another person release their new caller? why didn't foxpro do it themselves?
because they KNEW it would cause a pile of poo!
Why is it not on their (foxpro) website yet?
Why wasn't it at the shot show?
Why if they are industry leaders, can't they come up with their own stuff? why copy the M1 and now the all in one?
Put it this way, if Bill Martz EVER came out with ANY caller that was pocket sized, had a smaller remote, banking system, plastic body, remote text screen and blah blah blah. You KNOW as well as any other person that there would be a total up roar in the caller and hunting community!! They would call for a witch hunt and come storming into NH with their torches and pitchforks! Yelling OFF WITH HIS HEAD! But when poor little foxpro does it, well its called R&D or giving the consumer what they want or smart business and all the other lame excuses that the foxpro pickle sniffers come up with. ANd to top it all off, they get the protection of half brained mods at PM of which some of them are mods at foxpro's site. It is all a nasty mess and I think alot of people are just plain sick of it.
sorry to spout off, again, not at you Rich.
speaking of WT callers is it true they are working on a special "snow" edition that will allow the user to push a buton and activate an anti-gravity force field that will actually levitate the user over the deep snow?... :wo:
Well, they sure do have a similar look to them, but as I think about all the other stuff I own [or wished I owned] and the choices between different brands :wo: looking similar seems to be pretty common :shrug:
I kinda like the direction of integrating all the function in a small, remote controlled, footprint. Lighter and less bulky works for me :eyebrow: As a consumer it's kinda nice to have multiple companies working on providing me choices. Does anyone have some of the key comparable specs on these? Are they truly the same in terms of function, quality, price, etc?
Quote from: nastygunz on February 24, 2008, 09:48:43 PM
speaking of WT callers is it true they are working on a special "snow" edition that will allow the user to push a buton and activate an anti-gravity force field that will actually levitate the user over the deep snow?... :wo:
I have an older model... it just brings the animals to the caller. :innocentwhistle:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/jrbhunter/Predators/IMG_1194.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/jrbhunter/Predators/IMG_1195.jpg)
QuoteHere in America we have a system of business practice that is called free enterprise. I see no problem with FoxPro's integrity here.
Cool, I'm glad you feel that way since we have been thinking about coming out with a few mouth calls. I will just plan on taking the Killer Call and Cow horn howler that you gave me over to Lincoln Tool and design here in town and see about getting a couple of molds built. They are already building Les Johnsons new calls so they are up to speed on call building.
Rich,
Seriously would you really feel this way if we would have simply sent out voting forms before selecting additional field staff ?
We had absolutely no idea about any pissing matches you had with this other individual.
I have always liked you and really enjoyed coming to your house to hand deliver one of our very first calls. Your hospitality is second to none and your wife is one heck of a cook I must add.
Todd Borland
Minaska Outdoors
"Leading The Way" :madd:
Todd,
Your idea regarding a vote, or at least a little bit of opinion sharing among field staff before taking on new field tester's is a good one. FoxPro and Minaska should both have something like that in place. I have no ill feelings toward the Borland brothers or Minaska products. You boys are top notch in my book, and are still welcome in my home at any time. The Minaska callers are good also. I tell those who ask, that you can't go wrong with either FoxPro or Minaska. I feel that honesty is the best policy, so I simply tell people the truth. :wink:
good one JRB, touche :bowingsmilie: classic looking red fox.
how do u remember all the sound numbers on the minaska? can u see what is playin or do u have to remember the numbers? i like the fox pro remote cause u can see what ur playing
The FoxPro Remote is great for you young guys, But us old guys who need reading glasses - well - the concept is nice but the display is too small.
And the display on the remote is just one more thing that can break in the woods. Along with the knob to select sounds.
Used to be, a guy could take 3 or 4 hand calls, head out to the woods and kill coyotes. Now, unless you have 200 sounds and a degree in electrical engineering, you're sunk.
When I hear people extol the virtues of having those 200 sounds, I often wonder if they are out there to call coyotes or be a DJ?
Al
Quote from: THO Game Calls on March 07, 2008, 11:27:22 AM
When I hear people extol the virtues of having those 200 sounds, I often wonder if they are out there to call coyotes or be a DJ?
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Thats is funny right there..........but true.
yeah I hear ya al. I normally can narrow down what sounds on the ecall I am going to use to about 10. the rest are there for convience if need be. the fox sounds are nice if ya got on hung up and need em to get a bit closer. somtimes hand calls won't work. but 95% of the time they are perfect for the job. atleast at night they are. I think the biggest dissadvantage is that when someone has 130 or so sounds to choose from they start screwin with the sounds and using 10 different sounds in 5 minutes of calling time. too much stuff to screw with. daytime it is nice though to get the sound source away from you.
as far as the 200 sounds, its nice to have. i have 70 on mine n i use a good bit of them because i hunt yotes, fox, crows, and coons. and i have it in one box. how many hand calls do u have? Do they bang against each other when u walk in the woods? i bet they do. mine i can fit in my pocket. And as far as an elecrical degree, u dont have to have one u just have to know how to push a button and i can see u can do that. If you can get on the computer you can run the fox pro remote. It would be my guess that u dont want to spend the money or you cant afford one
I took all the sounds off mine and reloaded 8 on one bank for coyotes and 5 on another for crows. We cant use birds sounds here other than crow sounds or call coons with an e-caller and don't need a lot of the others sounds. It is nice having that option though.
When I use the foxpro or the Minaska I don't look down at my remote anyway so that feature doesn't appeal to me. It's not a bad Idea to have that feature for the ones that want it.
QuoteIt would be my guess that u dont want to spend the money or you cant afford one
I think AL has the WT which is more expensive than either of the above mentioned callers.
I use the Minaska now days when I use an E-caller because I like the features that better suit me. I think if someone likes the features of the Foxpro or WT better they should buy one.
No E-caller will ever take the place of my hand calls but there are some setups I do, that the E-caller gets used on a lot..
Quote from: golfertrout on March 08, 2008, 09:35:37 AM
as far as the 200 sounds, its nice to have. i have 70 on mine n i use a good bit of them because i hunt yotes, fox, crows, and coons. and i have it in one box. how many hand calls do u have? Do they bang against each other when u walk in the woods? i bet they do. mine i can fit in my pocket. And as far as an elecrical degree, u dont have to have one u just have to know how to push a button and i can see u can do that. If you can get on the computer you can run the fox pro remote. It would be my guess that u dont want to spend the money or you cant afford one
I can hunt all four animals you listed with two hand calls. the only reason I say two is a open reed call does not do crow sounds. and when I hunt crows I aint hunting coyotes fox or coon. so yeah one call will do it for me.
First, no my calls do not bang together when I walk. I keep them in my call bag. Nice and snug and secure. But you make a good point about a well designed lanyard. If you need one, I make them, as well as several other guys on this board. We all make them so our calls do not bang togehter. I think we all stole the idea from Loren Reese who made the first No Noise lanyards.
How many calls do I have? Well, I have close to a hundred I suppose. I carry maybe 6 or 7, sometimes more A good caller can make a lot of sounds with a good open reed call. I carry others because I enjoy using them, or they have special meaning to me. For some guys, calling is 90% of the fun. I'm one of them. Ask Browning204. I would rather blow a hand call in the woods than shoot the darn coyote when it shows up.
The electrical engineer line was a joke. Not meant serioulsy. I routinely use several editing programs to enhance, change, rearange and do other things with calls for my e caller.
And I do infact own two e callers. I had a Bandit, but I sold it so I could buy a Wildlife Tech caller. I also have one of the Minaska Amp and speaker combos. I use an Mp 3 player with that one. I guess, between the e callers and the tapes, CD's and other stuff that goes with them, I have close to $1500 tied uo. Maybe a bit more.
There is nothing wrong with using an E caller. They have their place and are very effective. Having 200 sounds may suit the way you hunt. Being able to read the sounds off the remote is a nice feature. But as I said, you get a bit older, and you start needing to use glasses to read the fine print, stuff like that doesn't make much sense to you.
And, as you get a bit older, and seasoned as a coyote hutner, you'll beging to realize that if you can make a few sounds well with a hand call, you can kill coyotes.
No matter what they tell you, what you drag out of the woods is more important than what you drag in,
Good Calling
Al
Al I'm by far not a seasoned coyote hunter but i am a seasoned hunter, i started hunting yotes last year and killed 3 using a hand call and have called in a bunch. i have also called in a bunch with my e caller, i have prob 10 hand calls, i understand not being able to see the sounds on remote but i use the 4 presets and usually dint look at remote just use the Braille system. As far as the 200 sounds no u dont need that many but it is nice to have, just like having 100 mouth calls, do u need that many in the field? no but its nice to have them. Maybe one day i will be a seasoned yote hunter like you but right now I'm just enjoying getting after them n hearing the howls n yips. The yotes i killed last year i took two of my buddies that have never went yote hunting n i called prob 10 in and i shot 2 n my buddie shot one, my gun got jammed n i had 4 or 5 coming right towards me n here i am with a jammed gun, finally they went the other way, my buddie said he almost pissed his pants cause all of the yotes around us, he is hooked now. I usualy hunt at night in West Virginia, where do you hunt?
Lemme make sure I got this right?
...you had 10 coyotes running in at you...and five kept coming after shots fired?
I hunt in New Hampshire and Vermont.
I'm by no means a seasoned coyote hunter. I know my area, and how the coyotes and fox behave around me, but I would probably be a bit lost somewhere out west.
I have the number of hand calls I do not because I need them, but because call makers over the years have sent them to me as thanks for helping them get started in calling, or I knew the call maker and wanted one of his calls.
I have several dozen commercial calls for the simple reason that I use them to compare the calls I make too.
I wont get into the E caller wars. I think they will all call game animals. We seem to forget that back in the day, they used 78 RPM records to call coyotes with LOL. So if that will work, I am sure any brand of E caller on the market will work. It comes down to how much money you can, or want, or are willing to spend, and on what you have seen a caller do in some cases. I have hunted with a Bandit, Predation, Foxpro and WT caller. The WT caller out called them all IN MY AREA. It may not work in other places, and it has it's limitations, but for me it was what I felt would be the best caller for the type of hunting I sometimes do out of tree stands. If I am hunting on the ground, I use hand calls, but I carry my Minaska and and speaker combo, as it fits in a pocket and is pretty versatile for when I want to make a really long stand and dont want to be blowing a call for 30 or 45 minutes.
I was part poking fun and part being serious about the fox pro remote. For someone who needs reading glasses, it is just too much of a hassle. I can print my call list in BIG letters LOL. Which helps when you are known to have left your glasses sitting on the ground at your last stand :doh2:
Good calling
Al
Quotei called prob 10 in and i shot 2 n my buddie shot one, my gun got jammed n i had 4 or 5 coming right towards me n here i am with a jammed gun, finally they went the other way, my buddie said he almost pissed his pants cause all of the yotes around us
:shck: Man... It's a wonder you all didn't get ate ! :whew:
Seriously, I can see it now.... it's too bad you didn't have someone like CCP or Kee's camera man around....
You could have made a bundle of $$$$$ from America's funniest home videos. :wink: :biggrin: :laf:
I don't see a large problem with FoxPro's small print on the screen. I simply put on my reading glasses while dialing in the sounds I want, place four sounds on individual presets and go calling. I don't need glasses to see the preset buttons. Want different presets? Change your sounds before going to next stand location.
Huh - didn't know you could do that.
Neat.
Al
As posted before, I don't have any trouble reading the TX-200 remote with my bifocals. That being said, it makes the sound list much easier to read if you renumber your sounds, starting with 001, 003, 005 and so on. This puts a space between the sounds, making each easier to read. It limits you to 100 sounds instead of 200, so it won't work for anyone who feels they need 200 sounds on board. Just another example of the versatility of the TX-200 remote. The presets being simple to reset, including the volume, is a useful feature. In addition, you can choose a particular sound and volume, while the caller is muted, and then choose another, and then you can use the recall button to switch back and forth between those two sounds. So, in effect, you really have more presets than 4 to work with if you get familiar with the remote.
When I am on a calling stand, I expect a predator to appear at any instant. I refuse to dink around looking for different sounds while on stand. Four sounds at my finger tips, plus a howler around my neck. The howler is capable of producing the howls I use, pup squeals and more. If I can't call em with all of those choices, I had better have a better excuse than lack of calling sounds don't ya think? :roflmao:
The preset buttons and the volume control are probably the two key features that make me think about upgrading my FX3. I think they would make it easier, but then I think about what I can do with my FX3 vs a cassette player and a Johnny Stewart tape, which is what we used way back. Having a library of 200 sounds on the caller sounds interesting, but the 32 on my FX3 [which I could change at home if I wanted] seems to work for me fine. At first, only seeing the sound number on the remote was a bit awkward, but after several dozen stands it got to where it was really not a problem and the sound numbers are even big enough for these old eyes without my glasses.
Even with an ecaller, I feel like I left something home if I don't have a couple hand calls with me. Some stands I use just the ecaller, some just the hand calls, but quite often I use both.
All that said, it's not that I am an experienced and successful caller. It's just what I do, though I do try different tips and techniques that mention here from time to time. :congrats:
Like Rich, I am expecting to see a coyote appear at any time, and I don't want to have to look at my remote to pick out sounds. That is why I use the presets and the stick on buttons on the 9 keys. I don't even have to look at it to punch any of the 9 buttons. Works like braille when you have used it a little. It gives you a definite click feel as you are automatically centered on the key instead of having to look down to see if your finger or thumb is centered on the key you want to push. Again, it is a very versatile tool capable of being used in different ways. That is the main reason I make a lot of sequences. One click and then watch. Shoot a coyote and hit P4, Coyote Death Cry, and you are in business.
It is interesting how we have taken a $680.00 E caller with 200 sounds and, by way of the 4 presets, reduced it to no more than a $190.00 remote Prey Master. :laf:
Al
Edited with a Smiley so Rich dont come to NH and kick my butt
Quote from: golfertrout on March 08, 2008, 11:43:02 PM
Al I'm by far not a seasoned coyote hunter but i am a seasoned hunter, i started hunting yotes last year and killed 3 using a hand call and have called in a bunch. i have also called in a bunch with my e caller, i have prob 10 hand calls, i understand not being able to see the sounds on remote but i use the 4 presets and usually dint look at remote just use the Braille system. As far as the 200 sounds no u dont need that many but it is nice to have, just like having 100 mouth calls, do u need that many in the field? no but its nice to have them. Maybe one day i will be a seasoned yote hunter like you but right now I'm just enjoying getting after them n hearing the howls n yips. The yotes i killed last year i took two of my buddies that have never went yote hunting n i called prob 10 in and i shot 2 n my buddie shot one, my gun got jammed n i had 4 or 5 coming right towards me n here i am with a jammed gun, finally they went the other way, my buddie said he almost pissed his pants cause all of the yotes around us, he is hooked now. I usualy hunt at night in West Virginia, where do you hunt?
My long lost brother? :confused:
Brother, you can spin a bigger yarn than I can..........that's hilarious........ :laugh2: :yahoo:
THO Game Calls,
I hope your comparison of a state of the art caller to a PreyMaster was made in jest. A smiley following the statement would have been nice. :whew:
The presets are one of the things I loved about the Minaska when I got it. Having 10 preset buttons for for each bank was so cool.
Now I usually only use the #1 preset button for distress and then #0 preset for hurt pup on bank #1 but it is nice knowing all them presets are there for me.
I got the older TX5-LR remote for my foxpro it doesn't have any presets. :rolleye: Wish they would have had it then. Can a person buy or trade in the remote for the one with the presets?
I fixed it Mr. C.
Al
yes the other yotes came in after shots fired its no lie, believe it or not but i know n so does the guys i was with, i dont bs about my hunting experiences, Just cause its never happen to you, you dont believe it but i can guarantee it happened
I hear ya. I saw a doe standing in a field this year about 800 yards away. I raised my bow, used some Kentucky windage adjustments and let the arrow fly. Just as it was about to land I whistled causing the doe to raise her head and look. Nailed her right between the eyes. Believe it or not. :wink:
LOL Bop !!! :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
:rolleye: Now, Bop... tell the truth.... it was more like 750 yards. :iroll:
I'm sorry. I do embellish from time to time......... :wink:
Musta been a Matthews bow is all I can figger Bop!! :shrug: Heckuva shot!! :congrats: :congrats:
:confused: Are your arms even long enough to draw a bow?? :shrug: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
bopeye n fins when i called the dogs in last year after i shot about 30 seconds later my buddie Chuck shot his, and after that i got on my mouth call and did a wounded distress yote sound and the others came in as well. We were hunting at night ,and on this 900 acre farm in the last 2 years there have been 21 yotes killed off of it. I called in 4 this year n my buddie Chuck killed one and shot at another, and in a field about 400 yards away he seen 4 red foxes. Like i said i dont BS about my hunting or fishing. Want to hear another? first time i went muskie fishing 2 years ago i caught 2, one was 28 inch and the other was 43 inches, hold on i have another first time i went turkey hunting i shot a gobbler. And THO as far as a prey master compared to a fox pro, there is no comparison.
golfertrout, is telling the truth, I was there and there are some photos on my web site of the night in question! golfertroutis agood guy and I have had a lot of long nights chasing those yotes with him and I know that if you shoot one at night howl and carry on abunch right away and some times they come back hard like they most certainly did that July night A lot of those dogs were young and did not know any better and it was one of the most exiting nights I have ever had!
golfertrout, is a do person and hunts hard I do not know if I can keep up with the hours he spends on coyotes but I will hunt with him any day. :yoyo: :yoyo: :yoyo:
Now yall get off that chair and go outside!! :roflmao: :roflmao:
golfertrout, It is me AL, I can only say there are a lot of good people here and we do not all agree on everything but we must learn by patterns like we do those dogs and good or bad try and do what is best for you, now lets go hunting before you go fishing without me again! :eyebrow:
http://www.geocities.com/alscalls/coyote.html (http://www.geocities.com/alscalls/coyote.html)
tell them the way u see it Al, we know what happened that night they dont have to believe it. Maybe they have never used the wounded call after a shot, hope they dont try it that way there will be more dogs 4 us.
I have called and killed as many as three coyotes that came in one at a time. Coyotes don't seem to know what gun shots are, unless the shot is fired at THEM. I think they pass the boom off as thunder or something.
I've used a Fox Pro twice ... first & last time. My thumb hurt for a week trying to get them dman buttons to work. I was about to press 'em w/ my size 14 when I remembered it belonged to my dear friend. :whew:
You Fox Pro suckasses can't see that that's a BLATANT COPY! Just like they copied Bandit!
Don't be pissin' down my back & tell me it's raining. :madd:
So there wasn't any law that said that they couldn't do what they did. Well, there isn't any law against adultery either ... does that make it okay in your book? I suppose it would be okay then if the Dillons came over & banged your ol' lady! :shrug:
So why they used the flashlight case was because they were to stupid to come up w/ their own design? Apparently! History bears this out. :iroll:
You can only fool some of the people some of the time ...
Boy, I'm getting pretty cranky lately, must be election year. :biggrin:
easy there bubba. they were using the flashlight cases because it was a simple easy to hold unit that worked great for years till rayovac decided to not make em anymore.
I do have to admit I hated the Tx5-lr remote or whatever they called it. the dang thing would do what it felt like when it wanted which I told mike and foxpro. this is why I upgraded to the new tx200 remote I liked the fact that I could see what the call was doing. sometimes it took the signal a bit till it got to the call. which if ya just keep pushin buttons it would confuse it.
I can't say that the two units do not look alike. maybe people wanted a foxpro that had the same features? it is like the chevy vs ford deal. both trucks look close to the same back in the old days and most of the time they came with the same features. maybe someone is a minaska man or a foxpro. personally I am going to stick with the foxpro because if something gets broke from hard use I can send it to em and in two days have it back because the vacinity of their facitlity. I also like the foxpro remote better. that is why I got away from the fx3 because I hated having to remember numbers.
"You Fox Pro suckasses can't see that that's a BLATANT COPY! Just like they copied Bandit!
Don't be pissin' down my back & tell me it's raining. "
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you have time, go over to foxPro's main site and take a look in their custom shop. Even YOUR eyes should be able to see that the Prairie blaster in there has very same case as the "Open country" caller, which is a different case than Minaska uses.
While you are over on FoxPro site, you may also notice that the "Open Country" is not offered there. At the time of this post, allpredatorcalls.com is the only dealer handling those callers. They are not copy's Victor. They are FoxPro all the way. I don't know why you chose to come in here and insult FoxPro and those of us who speak highly of them. I would appreciate it if you would please edit your post. Thanks in advance. :confused:
vvarmitr : I have to admit I am quite surprised at the content of your post. I gave you more credit than that. I have nothing against Minaska at all, and have no problem with someone preferring their product. But when you start name calling and making insulting remarks, that is a different matter. I would venture a guess that a good deal of the advancement Minaska has made in the past few years has been a result of them trying to catch Foxpro. If you really think Minaska is ahead of Foxpro on the technology curve, that is your right to think any way you want. I do think you should show Foxpro owners a little more respect though.
Wrong side of bed this morning James? :shrug: Good you kept those size 14's off your buddies remote, but probably could have made your point of view here w/o using them on fellow board members. :doh2:
You Fox Pro suckasses can't see that that's a BLATANT COPY! Just like they copied Bandit!
Don't be pissin' down my back & tell me it's raining. "
...
WOW..... :shck: :argh:
Unbelievable.............
I am glad Foxpro and Minaska are in the business. Maybe both companies products will only get better from the competition. We hunters win from that.
The calls look similar. If something has been done illegal, the lawyers will sort it out soon enough.
Semp
vvarmintar if those buttons hurt ur fingers u have a problem, maybe carpeltunnel or maybe just a case of the whines, u probable have a real hard time hunting and walking in the woods, maybe u sould sit in ur rocking chair and stop posting nastie stuff about fox pro
Easy boys......there has been enough mud slingin here lately to fill in the grand canyon. How about if we just agree to disagree? :wink:
I wish I could get all this noise into a caller and see if you guys can call anything..... :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Just kidding I couldnt resist :biggrin:
One thing for sure we all like to see them dogs work and what ever you use to get there use it.
If I go fishing I like to use a spinnerbait that dont mean they wont bite a worm. :nono:
And it all costs to much. Life is short and I like spinnerbaits! :yoyo: :yoyo:
I'm jumping on the Minaska Wagon myself. But it's really nothing to fight about.
One thing you'll notice about this site Al, that really sets us apart from the others....is if someone has a different opinion on a product...were going to hear it. I guarantee it.:eyebrownod:
Other sites edit the posts, or ban people, or suspend posting privileges etc, for speaking their mind on certain products. I know one forum in particular that will literally wipe your post clean, and reprimand you for saying anything derogatory about FoxPro. Which is pretty sad. Members are only allowed to post positive hype about FoxPro there. And no it's not the FoxPro forums either. :nono:
Members here are encouraged to speak about their opinions on products, whether it be good or bad. Canned praised is easy to recognize and often ignored.
On that note I will agree VV didn't have to call anybody names, and that's really not who he is. He more then likely just got frustrated, as we all do :shrug:
VV shake it off and get back here :congrats:
Look at it this way, when he made that post he was really only looking out for you guys best interest. :wink:
:laf: Ok...that wasn't called for either was it.
AWWW I am just horsing around, I am all about freedom of expression, and I love spinnerbaits I do :roflmao: :roflmao:
golfertrout is a friend of mine and an awsome hunter and we have seen them yotes come to all kinds of calls.
He just got his fox pro a while back and he worked hard to get it. And I must say they have adapted well to calling coyotes together. I am just affraid of leaving those two alone too long :innocentwhistle: :innocentwhistle:
He is to good a hunter to worry about this stuff when he should be checking the weather for our hunt this week :eyebrownod: :eyebrownod:
Dont worry golfertrout I will bring my hand calls in case you wear out your batteries and if I get winded we can go throw a spinnerbait.... :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
http://www.geocities.com/alscalls/coyote.html (http://www.geocities.com/alscalls/coyote.html)
Thread split and fishing conversation moved here http://www.finsandfur.net/forums/index.php?topic=5230. :wink:
The response to this will be interesting. If you want to flap your gums you better be ready to ......Bring It !
http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=52801105&Main=52777569#Post52801105
That's good stuff. :congrats:
Only thing is you wont win over there. They will just delete the posts they dont want anyone to see, to protect Foxpro. They been doing it for years. :rolleye:
That's the dictatorship over there.
"That's the dictatorship over there."
How can you say that? We voted them in, no wait, we didn't. Well, how did they get in the power seat then? Maybe it was much like the rest of the sites on the net, just different somehow.
FoxPro has come a long way, from a flashlight case to a Minaska box. Now, that's progress. What will they think of next, look out WT.
Quote from: Rich on March 17, 2008, 11:57:43 AM
I would appreciate it if you would please edit your post. Thanks in advance. :confused:
Rich: I want to say first thing that the respect I have for you in the coyote hunting world is great. I rank you up there w/ Bill Austin. ;yes; However, to go back & edit my post to say Field Staffer, office management, or yes men would be redundant!
The Bandit: Welcome aboard! :biggrin: It's good that you are here, but isn't that pretty ballsy w/ your first post you call us to rally behind you? What do you think we are? PMers? :argh:
Jimbo: Thank you for the freedom of speech. You are quite the patriot! My respect for you has grown immensely. But then again there was no place for it to go but up. :laf:
Quote from: canine on March 17, 2008, 01:27:46 PMWOW..... :shck: :argh:
Sorry JD, were you to close to the fan when I started slingin'? :confused:
Just to let you all know I own neither e-caller & don't have a dog in this race. MHO is that FoxPro copied Minaska! Again!
"FoxPro has come a long way, from a flashlight case to a Minaska box. Now, that's progress. What will they think of next"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OH Lordy Dan, if you only knew. :roflmao:
vvarminter,
A box with hinges makes it a Minaska copy? My gun case has hinges too. I guess I copied Minaska huh? :roflmao:
Quote from: Rich on March 19, 2008, 01:57:37 PM
A box with hinges makes it a Minaska copy? My gun case has hinges too. I guess I copied Minaska huh? :roflmao:
:shck: Why the bass turds. See what Fox Pro has started! :laf:
Rich, I bet you're thinking "If only I could make a hinged howler." :roflmao:
vvarmitr : It is good to see everyone laughing and having a good time now. At the risk of being redundant, I will say I don't appreciate being called a suckass. You said you don't have an ecaller, which probably indicates you don't know much about them. One thing is a positive fact; if you think Foxpro is copying Minaska, you need to check the history a little. I have no interest in making a pissing contest out of this thread, but if you don't know what you are talking about, do some research. I chose Foxpro long before they chose me, and do know a good deal about them and Minaska.
Al,
Don't take this the wrong way because its not my intention for ya to do so, but when I see FoxPro in your sig line, I think only one thing. Your gona say only good about FP and nothing else, because if ya do, you'll answer to the Dillon's or be gone, that's the nature of the beast. So when I'm reading through an EC thread, I mostly skip everyone that is an EC "Staff" member for any of the companies because the post will be biased.
I yet to see a FP, MINAwhatever staff publicly say, a WT is a better quality sounding machine, but we are gaining on them or we are working on it. I have an FP and us it, but I think the sound quality from the WT is for sure superior, but hey the FP was in my budget at the time, and the WT wasn't. Plus the WT speaker I saw was a lot bigger then my flash light FP to carry around. Bottom line though is the FP works for me now. I also know of at least 5 FP staff that agree and have in the past said the same things, two while they were currently FP staff, and the others prior to being inducted, but since have muted their public opinion supporting that (The whole nature of the business beast thingy). We recently lost a good fella to such the beast. :wink:
Any way what I'm trying to say, while you as individuals are respected, for the most part we take all your opinions as "Staffers" with a grain of salt, when ya mention the product your staffing for. (Human nature) I have noticed with the e-caller companies that for the most part they used to get hard core hunters as staffers, and they still do for the most part, but its also a "lets staff who's popular with the crowd right now" thing, and folks are jumping from one ship, on to other boats and such. So do ya believe the guy telling ya one caller was tops a few months ago, or do ya believe him now when he is on the other boat saying this caller is tops? :innocentwhistle:
I know you like the caller you represent, but will you or other staffers come on here and say what you don't like or the down falls to the product? Better yet, I'm not saying its true and I don't care one way or the other, but if you knew it was true, would ya come on here as a "staffer" and say yeah, FP copied that call from Minawhatever? :wo:
No harm meant towards FP, WT or Minawhatever, just an unbiased "Non-staffer" with an opinion. :wink:
Todd,
I don't have a dog in this fight but I do have a foxpro and I have a question.
I have not had my hands on a Minaska or a WT, form what I HEAR they are great callers and I know that each of the companies have customers that will argue till the end of time that theirs is the best.
Personally I don't see how the sounds could be any better than what I have on my scorpion, I did own a FP38 and in my opinion (and the coyotes that I hunted) the sounds were terrible. I know that the sound quality of the old calls compared to the newer versions are not in the same boat. I have always hunted with mouth calls but after purchasing my call I rarely use a mouth call anymore, I don't feel the need.
I have to ask, you what model foxpro are you talking about when you say the WT is better in the sound quality? All of them?
vvarmintr, This question is for you, what call did you use that "hurt your fingers" from pushing buttons? I had a few problems with mine when I first got it, after READING the manual I have not had ANY problems out of mine that were not caused by me. The call has performed without a flaw. Did you truly understand how to operate the call? I'm not trying to be a smart ass (or a "suckass" for that matter), I'm trying to find out why you didn't like the call.
Like I said, I have not had ANY experience with a WT or Mikaska & I will not talk bad about anything until I have first hand experience, for all I know I could be hunting with a piece of junk compared to the other calls out there.
I'm not a foxpro staffer & I don't imagine that I ever will be, but I can't believe that the newer foxpro's are so behind in the sound quality & function-ability.
As for them copying Minaska, or anybody else. I tend to agree with one of the previous comments, if they broke a copyright of any kind - let the lawyers argue, not the hunters.
Quote from: Rprince on March 19, 2008, 05:08:45 PM
I have to ask, you what model foxpro are you talking about when you say the WT is better in the sound quality? All of them?
Anything that comes form a WT unit sounds more realistic than anything you can put on a foxpro... including stolen versions of the WT sounds. Just my observation
Quote from: Rprince on March 19, 2008, 05:08:45 PM
Personally I don't see how the sounds could be any better than what I have on my scorpion,
You should get out and hunt with some guys that own other products and revisit that opinion. Certainly not pushing anything on you- as 90% of the guys out there aren't going to drop the cash on a new WT unit anyway. But for arguments sake, if you're comparing the Foxpro & Minaska, the Minaska seems to have better sounds as a whole. There is no comparing those two to WT. Anyone that doesn't have a bias toward WT or BM, and has heard at Wildlife Technologies caller, is nodding their head in agreement right now.
i like my foxpro but if someone wants to send me a WT or miniska i would use it n tell u what i think
Todd: I can't speak for other Foxpro Field Staffers, but I am under no pressure from anyone to make posts about anybody's caller. I have always told Foxpro the truth and have tried to do the same on the forums. My only goal in making posts on any forum is to share experience and ideas, and to help the newbies. The only directives I have ever received from Foxpro is to "Keep it on the high road", and I have tried to do so. I have never made a negative post about Minaska or any other caller company since being named to the Foxpro Field Staff, and I don't intend to start now. If you really want to make a comparison between any of the callers, you need to compare them with comparable speaker setups. In my opinion, if you hook up a SPFR1 Foxpro speaker with either a Scorpion or a FX-5, and play sounds from the Mark II sound library, it will be far superior to any caller on the market for pure realism and quality of sound. If you think you have to break out windows with the volume on your ecaller to call coyotes, hook up a SP-55 and any coyote who is not deaf will hear it. If you want to call them out of the next zip code, hook up a SP108. I have told Foxpro my opinions on products as developed, both the positive and the negative. I have no problem with anyone favoring any particular brand of caller or its features, but I do have a problem with anyone calling me names. If that offends someone, that is something I can do little about.
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
:doh2: :doh2: :doh2: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :thumb2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
I'll stick with my JS-512.........still calls them in....... ;yes; ;yes; :thumb2:
Thanks Al. I won't be calling ya any names. I was just being honest.
I'll be using an ecaller this weekend trying to get a grizzly to part ways with his Denning area. :biggrin:
Todd: I never thought otherwise. Good luck on your grizzly hunt.
I often wonder how past generations of coyote hunters ever called in predators without all these high tech electronic gadgets and gizmo's available today. :wo:
Here's something to ponder for a few of the newer guys and a reminder for some of us old buzzards: Our first predator calls were simple, air driven and often times quite crude. Most were homemade like the rubber band call I started out with ( a couple of rubber bands and two blocks of wood). One of the first electronic calls was a battery operated player that used flat vinyl discs (we called them 45 rpm records) High tech? Not hardly... but they all worked back then and still should. Then again, maybe today's coyotes are a lot more smarter than those of 30 years ago.
Technology ... It never ceases to amaze me.
Electronic callers are just another tool in our bag of tricks. If you use one then that's great. Over the years, I've worn out several. Do I have one today? Yes, an old (but still reliable) Johnny Stewart 512LR and a now "antique" Fox Pro 532 with remote. Will I own another? Maybe someday but regardless of which brand chosen I feel it will be quite adequate for it's intended job.
Will the search for bigger and better never cease? I doubt it, as long as people are willing to pay the price we will continue to see even more advanced products hit the market. Look what has happened over the past ten years. Will the debate go on... which wildlife caller is the best? Certainly that's just human nature. :wink:
Just an old buzzard rambling on... :rolleye:
Quote from: possumal on March 19, 2008, 07:18:14 PM
if you hook up a SPFR1 Foxpro speaker with either a Scorpion or a FX-5, and play sounds from the Mark II sound library, it will be far superior to any caller on the market for pure realism and quality of sound.
Al,
This is my observation as well, I don't see how the sounds could get any better, they are perfect in my opinion. I will say however, some of the standard sounds left a lot to be desired.
Jrbhunter,
Thanks for your comments, your response & attitude is very much appreciated.
Unfortunately I don't know anyone in my area that has a Minaska or WT, if I ever get a chance to hunt with one I will jump on the opportunity.
I must admit, I am a foxpro fan, I have killed a bunch of critters with mine this year & I will hunt with mine from here on out. But, I won't talk bad about a product that I have not used, I wish others would do the same.
Quote-"I won't talk bad about a product that I have not used, I wish others would do the same."
Amen to that!
Well Al when I said/typed "suckasses" I didn't mean it as a term of endearment. So don't think you're special by taking offense. :laf:
Now if it will make you feel any better I took offense at the fact that you thought that I & others here were so gullible that because respected coyote hunters such as you & others would say that that wasn't a copy & we would agree. :noway:
A friend called me last night & explained that that's just business to copy someones successful creation. Car manufactures do it all the time & I think nothing of it. :wo: So from this point on I could give a rats rump about this thread.
So now w/ that in mind ...
Mr. Bandit you need to do some copying of FoxPro .............. NO, NO, NO, :doh2: ........... not their products; their marketing strategy. Since FP has Rich go get Brad Holzer & put his howls on the list. Get Brent Saxton & put his distress sounds on the list. Get what respected ( :iroll:) coyote hunters that aren't gobbled up by FP & make
suc Field Staffers of them. Better yet head hunt some of theirs. :eyebrow:
"If you build a better mousetrap the world will beat a path to your door." You aggressively market that mousetrap & they'll have to put in an express lane! :wink:
Now hurry, there are FP Field Staffers everywhere. :roflmao:
Quote from: Bob D on March 20, 2008, 07:56:45 AM
Quote-"I won't talk bad about a product that I have not used, I wish others would do the same."
Amen to that!
Well, what if you think that it's bad & that's why you aren't using it? :shrug:
Quote from: Rprince on March 19, 2008, 05:08:45 PM
vvarmintr, This question is for you, what call did you use that "hurt your fingers" from pushing buttons?
I'm not trying to be a smart ass (or a "suckass" for that matter), I'm trying to find out why you didn't like the call.
vvarmintr
Can you answer this one please?
I just created this call and am going to market it. I have named it DDT (Dirty Dog Technologies). Don't ya even think about copying me. :argh:
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r255/hp01177/recordPlayer.jpg)
Can I be on your field staff Joe?????? :yoyo:
That thing has to be better than any other call on the market, I heard it from Fred Flintstone so I know it's true. :doh2:
Absolutly....... But it'll cost ya :readthis:
vvarmitr : I have no idea how you know what I think about anything. I simply posted that I gave you more credit than making a name calling post. If you think Foxpro is in the business of copying Minaska, you aren't following the history very closely. Rather than posting links to posts that indicate clearly that Foxpro has been ahead on the technology curve, let's just agree to disagree, and drop the discussion. If you want to think the Open Country caller is a copy, you've got a right to do that. That doesn't make you right though. As far as terms of endearment, I don't need any of those either. A little mutual respect would be fine.
Here is my take on this. At a certain point in time, the general membership on these boards get sick and tired of having endorsements continually being slammed down our throat . To the point that it might be just as easy to stick a finger down and get it over with. Wow, when certain products and their reps (field staff, pro staff and users) totally take over a board and basically infiltrate and dominate damn near every thread in most forums.
A few years ago, in one of the only exchanges of pm's on any of these boards ,I made mention to Jim that the hobby and customs call builders had basically taken over PM and that any real discussion on predator hunting would ultimately end in who's call a person should buy. Jim's reply was that he shared my concern but was unsure of what could be done. Evidently not too much could be done.
Well, it's the same situation with the e-caller crowd and it appears to be getting worse. Picture after picture in the predator hunting forum with products predominantly displayed in front of the dead critter. Is that an insult to a member's intelligence? Was the purpose of the displayed product only a less than subtle attempt to sell someone on the product.
What's the definition of "Field Staff"? Someone who tests products and makes recommendations to a company or is it an employee of the company who doesn't work in the main office and spends his time in the field selling and pushing product? I assume the intent is selling product, in most cases. Another definition might be a person who lights the fuse on a type of explosive ordinance.
Some salesmen set themselves up to the inevitable backlash that can occur when people keep getting jabbed in the ribs by him . Sooner or later someone tells him to #### off even if they don't own the opposing product and in spite might just go out and buy it! In my business if we some hot shot cocky salesman trying to sell us, we generally buy the similar product from his competition
Quote from: Rprince on March 20, 2008, 08:42:05 AM
Quote from: Rprince on March 19, 2008, 05:08:45 PM
vvarmintr, This question is for you, what call did you use that "hurt your fingers" from pushing buttons?
I'm not trying to be a smart ass (or a "suckass" for that matter), I'm trying to find out why you didn't like the call.
vvarmintr
Can you answer this one please?
Rprince-- VV was using my FX3. I have square rubber buttons on the remote. I don't have a problem with them but then again I put them on & I like it that way. So it wasn't the actual FP remote he had problems with. I think it was my revamp of the buttons. If VV wants to try it again with out them all he has to do is ask. :wink:
Thanks HaMer.
I've been thinking about putting those bumpers on my remote as well, at least on the mute & voulume buttons.
Don't let him use it again, he might start to like it & have to eat his words :biggrin:
Just pokin back suck I mean vvarmintr. :hahaha:
HaMeR,
Don't allow Victor to use your digital caller, I mean ya wouldn't want the poor feller to hurt his finger now would ya?. I heard that Victor has to use a rotary phone. He can stick his finger in a hole once in awhile, but buttons? Nope. :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Hey Greenside,
The problems you mention were the reasons you came over here to F-n-F right? This board is better for certain. Nothing like the insignificant boards you find elsewhere on the net. I hope F-n-F ain't a blatant copy or nothin'. :roflmao:
Greenside: Your words define it perfectly "Someone who tests products and makes recommendations to a company ". I am speaking only for myself, but I am not an employee or a commissioned salesman for Foxpro. It would be sort of stupid to post a picture and not show the caller and other equipment used. My Browning A-bolt 243 and my shooting sticks show up in a lot of pictures too, but I am not working for them either. Sharing techniques and knowledge is what its all about for me, no ulterior motives.
greenside
now I wonder though just because I put my foxpro in a picture of a critter I called with that piece of equipment does it mean that I am saying that it is the best? maybe I just like giving credit where it is due? :confused:
:roflmao:
Rprince-- If I were to do it over I would get the little round ones as opposed to the square ones. I think they might work better. :wink:
I just created this call and am going to market it. I have named it the KKK (Koyote Killer Kaller). Don't ya even think about copying me. :argh:
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Rich,
No, not really. The reason is Foxpro Canada and the defense of another field staff that posted some stupid assed pictures of some photo cropped picture of a jack rabbit. Some really funny assed shit in total violation of TOS. At least it got him in one of the later issues of Predator Hunter. LOL
Rich the problem and issues are mostly due to the Field staff of a couple of companies. Ever notice that the Rock River and Brushy etc. have very problems on these boards? Maybe it's the lack of Field Staff jumping in and interrupting dam near every post. That go's with most of the other vendors. be it camo. bipods, etc. The problem is over aggressive Field Staff and until someone comes to the realization that in the end it going to cost them business it's going to continue.
Look out, HS is the sleeping giant. As soon as they recover from the Pimos patent infringement settlement, I'm sure they will be looking for more " Field Staff" Another opportunity for a Free Caller!
The reality is that I already knew what a Olt D2 was way before these boards.
Hey Jim......can I change my name to coyotehunter_.05? :confused:
:roflmao:
Whaaaat ?
Hey Joe... maybe we should go into business together. :innocentwhistle:
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
I kinda hear Greenside's 'infomercial' point, but for me, a pretty inexperienced caller, I enjoy hearing the tips, tricks, and opinions of folks like Rich, Al, and others. I own a FoxPro.... is it the best? I couldn't say. Most of the post differentiating them seem more on emotion than anything else so they don't help much. What I do know is this thing is head and shoulders over the 'Johnny Stewart tape in a cassette player' we used 30+ years ago...... though we called stuff with that too. At this point I don't see needing to change manufactures or even upgrade [though some of the newer function is tempting]. What I know is that my ecaller is not the gate to my success at this point. I also know that I don't need the bravado and emotion that is supposedly protecting me from falling for a pig in a polk. Comparative facts are always appreciated, but at the end of the day I decide how and where I spend my money and am satisfied with what I got when I purchased my foxpro. I might also have been satisfied if I had purchased from another manufacturer, but in my case that's just idle speculation.
I sure do hope that we don't drive off folks like Rich and Al and I hope some of their counterparts from other manufactures come and participate as they do. I give them a lot of credit and they have my respect for 'staying on the high ground' in light of the apparrent bull's eyes they have on their backs.
As far as 'joe hunters' including callers in their pics and telling what sounds they used and such....... taking issue with that seems silly to me and kinda defeats the purpose of a 'hunter sharing board' :wo: We are a hunter sharing board aren't we :shrug:
QuoteI sure do hope that we don't drive off folks like Rich and Al and I hope some of their counterparts from other manufactures come and participate as they do. I give them a lot of credit and they have my respect for 'staying on the high ground' in light of the apparrent bull's eyes they have on their backs.
Amen, brother! :highclap:
Mr. Field Staffers: As I said before I am through w/ the topic of this thread.
Al: though I don't know much about you , but after today let us say I'll gladly share a set w/ you. Don't really agree w/ ya always, but I'll do a set er two w/ ya. :biggrin: :wink:
Rich: If God would ever grant me the opportunity to do a set w/ you. Well, what can I say .... :bowingsmilie: :bowingsmilie: :bowingsmilie: ( that's to Him not you :laf: )
HaMeR: You are the GREATEST! Thank you for answering Rprince's question.
Rprince: I wasn't ignoring your question ... I couldn't find HaMeR's # :doh2: I wasn't snubbing you at all! sir.
Quote from: vvarmitr on March 20, 2008, 08:49:02 PM
HaMeR: You are the GREATEST!
Thanks James....I have officially heard everything. :roflmao: :roflmao:
Quote from: coyotehunter_1 on March 20, 2008, 08:16:25 PM
QuoteI sure do hope that we don't drive off folks like Rich and Al and I hope some of their counterparts from other manufactures come and participate as they do. I give them a lot of credit and they have my respect for 'staying on the high ground' in light of the apparrent bull's eyes they have on their backs.
Amen, brother! :highclap:
I second that !! :congrats: :congrats:
Jeb
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: Sorry Dirty Joe I hit The "POST" button instead of the "PREVIEW' button. :doh2:
Maybe I should just go to bed & get ready for 7 days of days. :rolleye:
Hey, maybe you & I could a couple sets together too. :laf: :wink: I know, I know, I had the chance, but hey I was working, :nono:
I'da thunk you'da knowd that allreddy!! :rolleye:
:laf: :laf:
Hey Joe!! Looks like you get to be good ol number 2!! :eyebrow:
:roflmao: :roflmao:
Back on track here......I think that lots of stuff will work. Just buy what you can afford. I have a preymaster and have called in 2 coyotes the first time I ever used it. I have also killed a few over a Scorpion. They all work, I think the user and how they use the caller has a lot to do with it.
You guys got half the net over here watching this thread :laf:
Well I guess we know how they spend their time.
Hey by the way... speaking of FoxPro, and a post I made earlier about them being in CaHoots with PM, how you dont dare say anything bad about them for fear of getting banned, bla bla...
How many of you have had your posts of there deleted, and or edited for referring to something on FnF with a link?
Let's see a show of hands. :biggrin:
:doh2: Ok, that aint, I say that aint gonna work.
Well it looks like Foxpro is the only one allowed over there to post links to FnF :roflmao:
Anyone else gets there posting rights threatened. :laf:
http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=52801105&Main=52777569#Post52801297
I had to take a screen shot of that for future reference. :iroll:
I've never had my posting rights threatened Jim.... :wo: .... course I ain't much on going to another board, dropping a turd, and then running back here to make a 'hehehe look at me' post :shrug:
Yeah, I noticed that Jimbo. :nono:
I also noted how FoxPro side stepped Minaska's challenge. :wo:
Never had my privileges threatened either. But I gotta be good over there in case a call comes up for sale that somebody just can't live without!! :innocentwhistle: :roflmao:
I've never tried to post your link there for fear some of the assholes there would actually stop by here. :nofgr: You aint layin that one on me you bunch of FnF'ers!! :wink: :laf: :laf:
:roflmao: :roflmao:
Reeves just snuck in, now behave dangit :innocentwhistle:
I think that we are lucky to have several e caller companies competing with each other for the top dog of callers spot. There would be no need to continue improving a caller if there was only one brand and model to choose from. Digital callers sure are head and shoulders above the old 45 RPM record player callers too. I see Minaska and FoxPro as the two major E call makers today, and they are both winners. I have been a field staffer for both, and both companies make real good callers. You can't go wrong with either company. There are other callers out there that call critters also. Best thing to do is shop around, buy the caller of your choice and go call some critters. A remote controlled E caller has never called more critters for me that I can tell. My mouth blown calls call critters just fine. What the remote controlled E caller does for me is help me kill more of the critters that I call. Not a magic bullet, but when used wisely they are a mighty good tool of the trade. I happen to use a couple of foxPro callers now, and I love em both. I have my own personal issues with nicad and nickel metal hydride batteries but I am beginning to learn how to deal with the little buggers. I love to call coyotes and I love to help people become better callers. That is who I am.
I saw that post you are referring to Jim. It struck me as odd too, but I promised myself I wouldn't say anything about it. :nono:
I do believe everyone knows that Wildlife Technologies is the best e-caller out there........HANDS DOWN. It's just that most casual hunters don't want to spend that kind of money on a caller.......me included.
So to be fair, I believe that we must say that Foxpro and Minaska are the best two callers of the "moderately priced" ecallers. It's kind of like arguing about Ford and Chevy, but knowing that a Jaguar is out of their league in both performance and price......... :wink:
Quote from: Rich on March 20, 2008, 10:17:55 PM
I think that we are lucky to have several e caller companies competing with each other for the top dog of callers spot. There would be no need to continue improving a caller if there was only one brand and model to choose from. Digital callers sure are head and shoulders above the old 45 RPM record player callers too. I see Minaska and FoxPro as the two major E call makers today, and they are both winners. I have been a field staffer for both, and both companies make real good callers. You can't go wrong with either company. There are other callers out there that call critters also. Best thing to do is shop around, buy the caller of your choice and go call some critters. A remote controlled E caller has never called more critters for me that I can tell. My mouth blown calls call critters just fine. What the remote controlled E caller does for me is help me kill more of the critters that I call. Not a magic bullet, but when used wisely they are a mighty good tool of the trade. I happen to use a couple of foxPro callers now, and I love em both. I have my own personal issues with nicad and nickel metal hydride batteries but I am beginning to learn how to deal with the little buggers. I love to call coyotes and I love to help people become better callers. That is who I am.
Cheers Rich , good post. I have both FoxPro and Minaska callers love them both and not a member of either FPMafia or Minaska Gang. Both great products !! Thanks FoxPro and Minaska !! :highclap: :highclap: Now , can we get on to hunting or fishing ? :biggrin:
Jeb
Greenside, very good post. Used to be the "staffer" tag carried some type of respect, and honor, but at the rate they are handed out, and the selection process being watered down or not as picky,.........................................................I think its more harm then good anymore for the product pushers, for the exact reason I gave earlier.
It doesn't matter if its ecallers, custom calls, other products, etc.......... If I see a post about XYZ caller, and I see 20 of the 22 replies are from XYZ "Staffers" or "Admin", I'm instantly turned way from any info the post might provide and in some cases disgusted enough to not even consider the product. Kinda like ya said, its like seeing whats on TV at night and coming across all the infomercials. :rolleye:
Quote from: FinsnFur on March 20, 2008, 10:16:27 PM
Reeves just snuck in, now behave dangit :innocentwhistle:
Jim, I am perplexed as to why you would tell this. According to the last reply I got from you, you had a problem explaining to the members here why I was allowed here considering all the other Mods from PM are banned from the site. I just felt it best to come in under the radar to make life easier on you. After all that what friends are for
I can't speak for Jim, but I am assuming he was playing with you Randy. I personally didn't know who he was talking about until you made this post. :wink:
As far as I know, you are still welcome here........
I was perplexed over a few things myself...but that's not what this is thread is about.
"I do believe everyone knows that Wildlife Technologies is the best e-caller out there........HANDS DOWN. It's just that most casual hunters don't want to spend that kind of money on a caller.......me included"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bopeye,
We don't actually know that anymore. FoxPro and Minaska have both caught up with W.T. in both electronic technology and sound quality. W. T held the long range remote control title, but it is my understanding that this is no longer true. Now I believe the remote control issue is about equal, but W.T. has lost their lead and is soon to be left in the dust. I don't believe the cost of a W.T. is main reason that most of us never did buy one. I called Bill Martz on the phone a few years ago because I wanted to compliment him on high quality of some of his coyote vocals or something. I couldn't get more than two or three words in, because Bill immediately went in to a "know it all" mode. It is Bill that kills sales of W.T. callers, but I don't think he even cares if he sells em. :wink:
QuoteYou guys got half the net over here watching this thread
I'm not paying attention at all to this thread. I don't even open threads like this.
Just so you know.
Brad
(edit) I pretty much agree with what Dennis has said.
QuoteW. T held the long range remote control title until they got caught using non legal radio waves.
Mr. Cronk,
Please show any evidence of where WT was fined by the FCC for their remote, or forced to replace the remote of the WT e caller.
If you cannot produce such evidence, please edit your post accordingly.
AL
THO,
I fixed it just for you. :innocentwhistle: If you have one of the new models, would you please check to be sure your remote control will work at a mile or more away? I would appreciate knowing how far the line of sight distance of the W.T. remote is these days. The real truth is important don't ya think?
EDIT: THO,
I just checked the W.T. site. They now advertise their transmitter range as 150-600 yards. I wonder why they cut down the power so much if I wasn't correct in my original post? :biggrin:
QuoteI wonder why they cut down the power so much if I wasn't correct in my original post?
Please check the size of the electronics package on the Old WT as compared to the new WT and you will have your answer. Smaller, lighter, more portable.
You were incorrect in your original post. It is a myth that at one time (may still be) was posted on the FoxPro web site. The old WT Remote was FCC Certified and was and is completely legal for consumers to use. Users of the old WT remote will not be subject to arrest and prosecution for using the old WT e caller.
Perpetuating this myth and trying to scare legitimate consumers into not using their old WT E callers by insinuating they could be breaking the law is despicable. Which is what FoxPro did. The old threads are probably still on PM search from mid to late 2005 to summer of 2006.
If you WERE right, you would have provided something other than a feeble attempt to bolster your position by pointing out that WT changed the remote to one whose current range is much less than that of the old one. The fact of the matter is, there is no truth to it and FoxPro knows it. I am sure they would have given you the information to refute my claim if they had it. They dont because it does not exist, yet they continue to perpetuate the myth.
The FCC web site is accessible to anyone who wants to view it. All Orders are published by year and are searchable. Feel free to find any order forcing WT to change their remote, or any orders or fines levied against WT because of it. Even better, as a Fox Pro field staff, please invite Mike Dillon here to this forum and have him refute the claim that it is a lie, not with rhetoric, but with some hard concise facts that an old Cop like yourself would be comfortable taking to court.
Al
Al,
As you well know, there are reasons why the FCC did not take legal action. I don't care whether actual legal action was taken or not. Further more, I don't care. I didn't make the original claim, I just read it on the boards. Since the new W.T. transmitter is no longer using the alleged radio signal which made their transmitter work their receiver at a mile or more away that is proof enough for me that there was something wrong in the wood pile.
Wow, your statements here are disappointing Rich. Generally, your thoughts/opinions and statements are pretty valuable... but here they're showing a loose grasp of reality and very little knowledge about the products involved. You're stirring the pot and don't even know why. Perhaps your being swayed by whichever staff you're on now? The FCC thing is a bogus claim that stormed the internet- Bill went away from that system for other reasons: reasons every WT owner is privvy too.
The old style WT remote will not only work at one mile, it will work well beyond one mile. The new style will not only work at 600, mine will work at 800 and others will work farther. I've probably used the new style unit more than anyone else in the country.... I recieved #8 off the line and I've literally worn the paint off the thing in two years. The new style remotes are not as dependable and reliable as the old WT remotes, but they're still in a class of their own when compared to others on the market.
As for the sounds and sound quality, I'd venture to say the Borlands and Dillons would be blushing if they saw you making that statement. The sales pitch that Foxpro and Minaska sounds are even comparable to WT sounds only works on people who haven't heard WT sounds. Most folks that own a WT won't talk about them online, but at times I'm too dumb to bite my tongue while "Staffers" mislead the masses with vague claims and outlandish statements. Minaska vs. Foxpro is one thing- but throwing the WT in there is like including those little Cass Creek doodadds, it's an entirely different class of product.
It's sad really, because with Dillon's prostaffers and advertising campaign he's made enough money to have real sounds recorded so he can produce a top notched unit. Why hasn't he? Because he doesn't need to invest that money to keep selling product... he can ride that gravy train until Minaska or some other big commercialized product pressures him enough to warrant it. I don't blame him really, it's a great marketing move and economic stratagy for the moment since WT refuses to advertise. The other products are getting so close to WT prices, in the coming years anyone that knows how to purchase a WT.... will. I think they're only about $100 different now? The new WT runs $800 with 32 sounds.
You're right about Bill and his attitude, he turns away quite a few people: but to hear him tell it... he doesn't want those people as customers. His choice I guess: I'd prefer to be the only WT owner in the country, wish he'd stop selling them tomorrow.
Good post JRB, I always enjoy reading your stuff.
WT getting caught for radio signals, Now even a stupid white boy like me knows that ain't even close to true. Crap facts like that belong on the Foxpro forum. Maybe weasel will fight tooth and nail to defend them like he does all over the net?
The answer to why WT changed the remote is very simple to find out, as long as someone takes the time to ask someone who actually knows what they are talking about.
But as far as people having to change stuff, and as long as the Dillons like to have tea parties and tell stories. Ask them why they had to pull their magazine ads a while back. Why would they lie to potential customers and who made them pull them.
Now that I wrote this I am sure foxpro will come bustin in and tell some woe is me story!
EDIT: as far as sounds go, it is ridiculous to say that foxpro sounds even compare to the WT vocalizations! Yes, even the mark II sounds or whatever those things are called. I have hunted over many types of foxpro callers with many many different sounds including the newer ones. Yup, they suck compared to the WT vocalizations.
QuoteAs you well know, there are reasons why the FCC did not take legal action
That is utter horse crap and you know it. To insinuate that the FCC struck a "deal" with a tiny insignificant company like Wildlife Technologies is laughable. They would have fined them and been done with it had something been amiss. But you know the truth, and so does FoxPro.....
And here is what I know too.....
When this all blew up two or three years ago I was really interested in buying a WT e caller. But I was told by Fox Pro that if I did, and I got caught using it, I could be arrested and fined for violating FCC rules.
So I started doing my own investigating. I ran into a few road blocks and finally said the hell with it and picked up the phone and called Senator Judd Greggs office. I told them the situation, what was being said, that the product was made right here in NH, and could they help.
They gave me the phone number to the Head of the FCC Testing Facility in Maryland. I called. Talked first to a Secretary, told her I had been given the number by Senator Gregg. Within a few minutes, I was talking to the director of the facility.
When the WT was certified, it was done In House, not outsourced as so many products were then. The technician who did the testing and certification process was STILL working there. In the end, I was told that the WT Remote and Receiver were completely legal, were certified and that I would NOT be arrested for using them and anyone who told me I would be was wrong.
Again, I challenge you to have ANYONE from FoxPro come here and tell us why the WT remote is or was illegal. To show PROOF that it is, not just speculation. I can read the FCC rules for FRS Radios as easily as the next guy, so spouting off those rules to me is meaningless and just a straw man for the real issue. There is nothing anywhere that says the old WT remote was illegal. To try and make people think the FCC struck a deal with Bill Martz and let him slide is beneath you. If someone told you this, they screwed you. It's one thing to support a company, to believe in them, and their product, but quite another to let them lead you around by the nose with absolutely no regard for your reputation by feeding you Bull Shit to spew the uninformed masses.
Al
yes Al, I remember you telling me that you did that in your shop. I guess Slippery people will do anything to sell their products!
QuoteAs you well know, there are reasons why the FCC did not take legal action
Rich, I did a little research for you.
Here is a quote from Mr. Dillon, so if someone from Fox Pro told you the above, I say again, they have no repsect for your reputation,
"if a manufacturer is turned in, then the FCC has no choice but to enforce its rules"
Mike Dillon October 5, 2005
So tell me how it is that Bill Martz is so special that the FCC did NOT take some action?
and another
"To try and gain an edge in the market place deceptively should be brought to everyone's attention"
Mike Dillon, October 5. 2005
That one I agree 100% with
Still waiting for some proof of the accusations that are STILL out there.
Al
Al,
You are jumping to a lot of conclusions, and putting words in my mouth that I did not say. Nobody leads me around by the nose, and I didn't say that the FCC gave Martz any special treatment. Let me tell you a real world fact. If I was breaking FCC rules, I would likely talk to my Attorney for advice. If my Attorney advised me to change my ways, I would very likely change em. I said nothing here that I didn't believe to be true. You have a thin skin Al, and you should try to grow a thicker one. I should have kept my mouth shut about what I believe really took place. W.T. callers have always been good callers, and I have said that before. From the nasty tone you have taken in this matter, some folks may think that you are a salesman for W.T. To claim that W.T. turned the power down on their callers simply to make them lighter is nonsense Al. Think about it
FoxPro didn't ask me to say anything bad. about any company, and neither did Minaska. Lighten up Al, your blood pressure is rising. :wink:
Quote from: Jrbhunter on March 21, 2008, 04:07:19 PM
The old style WT remote will not only work at one mile, it will work well beyond one mile. The new style will not only work at 600, mine will work at 800 and others will work farther.
Why does anyone want or need a remote that works at a mile or even 800 yards? :confused: Has anyone killed a coyote sitting a mile away from the e-caller?? :nono: The whole idea sounds pretty dumb to me.
Hell, I can't even SEE further than 50-100 yards where I hunt!!
Semp
I may be in the market for a elec, call and after all this i like to see and hear a WT
Rich my blood pressure is just fine thank you.
This nonsense has been going on since 2005. As I said, I actually talked to the people at the FCC who did the certification. I have seen the original documents. They are actually available on line.
What was posted by FoxPro about the WT remote was misleading at best.
If I am wrong, please show some proof of it. Such a simple way to put the entire issue to rest. They have had 3 years to do so, yet not one shred of evidence has been shown to support the claims that Mike Dillon make in October of 2005, not only against WT, but other E caller makers as well.
Please let me refresh your memory.
" Problem is xxxxxxxxxxxxx that it is NOT approved for the type of activity that it is being used for. If you look at his liscence with the FCC, it states that he is using the transmitter to signal lights, which we all know he is not doing. The other problem is that anyone using this system could also be subject to the wrath and fury of the FCC, including fines. If someone is using this caller, and there is an emergency that someone is trying to get through on the same channel, it will not go through. Are you condoning illegal activity? " Mike Dillon October 2005
Now, Rich, if FoxPro knew this to be true, then why not just report it to the FCC. That would put WT out of business and there would be no discussion of this matter at all.
" The penalty is actually very steep($100000 plus double your profit made from selling an illegal system) and if a manufacturer is turned in, then the FCC has no choice but to enforce its rules. " Mike Dillon October 2005
But WT is still in business, still making great e callers. Again, FoxPro has has 3 years to report him, put him out of business and gain that market share, yet instead, all they have done is bash him on their web site and other Internet boards.
It's put up or shut up time. The only thing that has kept this from happening in the past is the dicks - I mean dictators - at PM wont allow it.
FoxPro needs to show some proof that the WT e caller is illegal. Not speculation, not a rehash of FRS radio rules from a layman's perspective, but an Order from the FCC fining WT and Bill Martz and making him stop producing, and consumers stop using, that model of WT caller.
If they can't do that, they need to take it off their web site and have their field staff stop misleading people. It really doesn't do anything for Fox Pro's creadability, and when you repeat it, it sure doesn't do much for yours either.
Al
Semp,
the WT is a professional caller designed for more than just calling coyotes. If you are live trapping lions or other dangerous game, you might want to be more than 400 yards away :)
Al
Quote from: THO Game Calls on March 21, 2008, 09:40:26 PM
Semp,
the WT is a professional caller designed for more than just calling coyotes. If you are live trapping lions or other dangerous game, you might want to be more than 400 yards away :)
Al
Hadn't thought about it that way. Makes sense. :eyebrownod:
Semp
Al,
I remind you again that FoxPro didn't ask me to say anything about W.T. I won't be mentioning the name of that company again. It always causes a war when anybody mentions them. Sorry for bringing the subject up in the first place. Fighting over brand names is a losing battle anyway. Kind of a "my Dad can whip YOUR Dad" kind of thing.
This is a bit of FYI info. sent to FCC in regards to making an identical remote like the old WT. For those not familiar with the older WT remote, it was basically a FRS radio board stripped out and rigged up to a DTMF generator. If you wanted to start your own e-caller company, wouldn't you want to use that same type of long range remote? It was a key selling point when I bought mine and was a highly touted feature. Here's FCC's response if you were thinking of trying to make your own FRS/DTMF style remote. All of the e-callers nowadays are using the same type RF Linx Tech. chips. Wouldn't it be reasonable to think that the ranges would all be fairly close?
Inquiry:
Please comment on the likelihood of a certification grant for a Part 95 Subpart B Family Radio Service station based on the following: I plan to take a properly certified commercial FRS radio, remove the plastic case and speaker, and install the radio in a different case along with a DTMF keypad that I will plug into the radio MIC jack. I plan to market this device as part of a wildlife caller where the user can control the operation of the caller by pushing buttons on the transmitter to change the volume, change the type of sound, turn the unit on and off, etc. I wish to use FRS radios so that I can offer my customers a remote control range of up to 2 miles. Other wildlife callers use low power Part 15 certified transmitters that have a range of maybe a few hundred yards. Just imagine the competitive advantage I'll have with this long range system! Note that I will remove the speaker so that the user has no ability to monitor for emergency communications, and that the transmissions will obviously be one-way. If you will not issue a grant for the above transmitter, then it follows that any currently certified transmitter of the type described above that is sold for the above intended use, regardless of the use stated on the certification, will constitute an illegal use of the FRS radio service, and will subject the seller to action by the FCC. If this logic is not correct, please explain.
Response:
Part 95.193 of our rules require that the primary use of FRS is two-way voice communication with another person. One way, non voice communication, digital data, tone activation transmission are only permitted as ancillary functions and limited to the requirements under part 95.193 (a) (1) and (2). Your modification would render the device unable to be used for the primary use of two-way voice communication with another person and could not be granted under the FRS rules. Further, per part 95.104(b), you must not make any internal modific! ation to an FRS unit. Any such modification would cancel the FCC certification and void your authority to operate the unit in the FRS band.
The second part of your inquiry implies that others are currently marketing or operating certified radios radios as you have proposed. Given your description, they seem to be operating the devices illegally. You may directly contact FCC/OET/Lab Auditing and Compliance Branch (raymond.laforge@fcc.gov). Please include as much detail as possible: nature of violation, FCC ID(s), transmitter operating locations and marketing information, model numbers. Also include your full name, address, and phone contact info. The FCC will investigate these operations and may take further enforcement actions.
I understand Rich. You seem to have jumped into the lions den. Doesn't look like you are getting much support either. At least the Minaska boys showed up for a bit.
QuoteFighting over brand names is a losing battle anyway. Kind of a "my Dad can whip YOUR Dad" kind of thing
I agree
Weren't all those:
Fox Pro Vs Loudmouth
Fox Pro Vs Wildlife Tech
and now FoxPro vs Minaska
wars pretty silly?
I can't wait till this summer when Western Rivers brings out the new Night Stalker.
Bet the fur starts flying the day it is released.
(http://www.thogamecalls.com/MiscPics/NiteStalker.jpeg)
Al
Let me see Snowcamoman (how are you by the way - long time no see)
That being the case, why has Fox Pro not reported them and put them out of business? I am sure the Dillons could have just bought a WT and sent it to the FCC to have them look at and crush Bill Martz, done it quietly and with no fuss on the boards and just taken over that high end market share that WT seems to have?
Hell, the Dillons could have had someone else do it for them and insulated themselves from the whole mess. They could have had you do it for them, or Guess or anyone esle.
The fact remains, they didn't. And I think they owe an expanation of why they didn't, They were content to trash them on the internet, on their web site and boards, with their field staff and supporters, so why didn't they follow through and go all the way?
That they didn't leads one to believe they really didn't have a legal leg to stand on.
Al
:roflmao: Classic :roflmao:
QuoteI can't wait till this summer when Western Rivers brings out the new Night Stalker.
Bet the fur starts flying the day it is released.
Hell you don't have to wait that long here you go....................How does that feel Mikey look a little bit familiar ?
Nothing is sacred in this industry get used to it.
http://www.king-cart.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?store=apc&product_name=Nite+Stalker
THO Al,
It's been awhile, long time no see. FCC has a way for companies to pay a fine without that citation ever showing up on the companies record. I'll dig through my stack of information and try to find that detail. It's basically a "loophole" to keep companies in good public view and at the same time get citation monies. Makes sense though, FCC doesn't want companies to go under, they're all part of the same Government that collects taxes. No industry is bad industry for Uncle Sam. I'll try to find that detail though, because it's an interesting one.
Honestly though, I have all of the callers around, they all have their strong points and I use them all. I have a favorite, but that's because it fits my needs.
Anybody who claims one company is the best in all aspects is absolutely LOST!!!! They all have strong points and everybody will view things differently. Can't we all just get along and go hunting?????
If I could get a Minaska remote for my WT I would be a happy camper.
Are you saying that WT was fned?
Is there any proof of it?
Al
Snow~man, do you still have your evolution results available? And if so, how current is it?....meaning with models.
I know a few years ago you did one on all the models available at that time. Just wondering if it had been appended or updated.
THO,
No, I do not know if WT was fined for the remote. However, it is something that a company could keep from the public viewing capacity based on how FCC allows companies to pay fees direct to the IRS. I need to find the literature on it so you can see what I'm talking about. I'm not saying they were fined, but it's sure strange that one of their strong features on the old callers disappeared on the new 2030 model. That new model could have been built with the same remote wouldn't you think?
Fins-N-Fur
I'm sorry, I guess I'm lost on the "evolution" results. Do you mean the evolution of WT callers? If so, I have varieties ranging from the old Tube Style model to the Backpack Model, to the MP3 version, to the "Programmable" model, to the 2020 model (Same as "Programmable" model, only non-programmable with 2 presets, to the 2030 current model. There is only one version that I do not have and it's a model prior to the 2020 programmable, based on an MMC memory card. I used to have one of these, but sent it in to get sounds put on it and low and behold, I got a non-programmable back. Not exactly what I had in mind, but I know where a few MMC's are and have my name on the list to buy them when the owner's want to sell.
Edit: Fins-N-Fur, I must be tired, I realized what you're asking. I have the newest model of Minaska Ultimate One, FP Scorpion & FX5. I do not and have been "told" cannot have a new WT though by the owner...lol.... My guess and based on the amplifier in the new caller is that they are very similar for volume. Sound quality will be the same since the bottleneck is that TOA speaker. The only difference in the older WT and new models is obviously the size, new shorter range remote with some new preset features, and a different amplifier.
Here's a question that no new WT owner can answer me. I couldn't find it in the literature or when I tinkered around with the 2030 either. So here's the chance for the WT KAS-2030 guys to help me out and answer a nagging question on the new WT. How do you change the transmitting channels??? #15 on this list.
http://www.wildlifetech.com/pages/transmit.htm
Honestly though on the sounds and callers guys. Some of the new sounds coming out are absolutely great sounding and high quality. I'm not trying to take away from WT, because they do have some great sounds. WT has a very extensive library of sounds and their Moose sounds are wonderful, however the new sounds being made by FoxPro are superb. The quality and realism is all there and anybody who wants to claim otherwise is just in a state of denial. Minaska added some really good Woodpecker sounds as well. Does it matter to the animals??? Depends on who you talk to and what product their selling that day I guess. It's just like a fishing lure, the one you have the most faith in and use the most is obviously going to be the top performer. Oh, wait, this thread was split awhile back on the fishing. Summer's almost here... Yippee!!!!
Yakutat Steelie
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/snowcamoman/YakutatSteelie.jpg)
Filling the Freezer with Sockeye
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/snowcamoman/IMG_0084.jpg)
After the Predation woes I sure hope WR can make this one fly with the big boys. I started with one of their tape players & lugged that beast all over the country side for crows,fox,coyotes, & even coon. That sucker was heavy but I never once under any conditions had a moments problem with it. I've talked to them on the phone a time or two & sure hope they have better luck with this one. I need to look that one over a little closer. :eyebrow:
Snowcamoman,
Let's assume, just for today, that the WT remote was deemed not in compliance with FCC rules, and, WT was fined by the FCC secretly and they paid their fine.
The case would then be closed. The FCC made it's decision, WT paid, end of story.
We know that the caller was not taken off the market in any cares - weather this happened or not.
So, when Mike DIllon says
The other problem is that anyone using this system could also be subject to the wrath and fury of the FCC, including fines. If someone is using this caller, and there is an emergency that someone is trying to get through on the same channel, it will not go through. Are you condoning illegal activity?
It's just deceptive and nasty marketing tactics.
And when they continue to feed that information to their customers, and field staff by leaving it on their web site and having field staff, supporters and others spew it all over the Internet, that's just wrong.
An that is how this got started. A FoxPro field staff made the statement about the illegal remote, AGAIN, and just let it hang out there for everyone to see. FoxPro knows it's BS, but man, they just run with it like a like a street punk snatching a purse from a socialite.
For me at least, that Halo on Mike Dillons head doesn't look so shiny and bright anymore. Lots of little Scorpion bites and dings from being out in the Open Country have mess it up a bit. And this situation doesn't do him ANY help in getting that "good guy in the white hat" image back. It just makes him look like one of the PM gang, after the almighty buck and buyer beware. And his field staff that spew this kind of garbage lose a bit of thier credability when they repeat it also. It's just a shame that Mike Dillon would allow a man like Rich Cronk to take the heat for something he knows is grabage. Sorry Rich got drug into this, perhaps it will make him rethink his possition with Fox Pron. What do you think? Rich Cronk, Field Staff Wildlife Technologies? Does that have a ring to it?
AL
:laf: @ Al Your bad :nono:
SnowCamoman....I was talking about the field test you wrote and posted on many of these callers a couple years ago on PM
Al,
You might want to consider putting down your horn and shovel....... you're down to spewing hate and bravado. We get it, you don't like foxpro.
It is a shame that Rich took heat, but unless your wearing teflon spandex, that ones on you bud.
How about we make a few posts on stuff we enjoy and maybe think about the meaning of Easter? Lots to be happy about :biggrin:
snowcamoman,
Thank you for bringing the truth to light. Even though your" hands on" investigation has zoomed over the heads of a few, I know one tired and run down old man that understands it.
First Stu, it's not on Me. It's on FoxPro. They put the garbage out, and they let one of their Field Staff take the heat for it. Rich put it out there - like a hanging curve ball. I swung at it and now you want to beat me up for it? Give me a Break. It's bogus and it needs to be shown as such.
Or maybe you want that we all should just sit around the camp fire and sing Koom Ba Ya and smoke some weed?
Get mellow with the world man, Be cool man, Don't worry about it man?
Please - since when did we all start wearing pink camo and holding hands in the woods and taking warm showers together aftetwards?
You're a good guy Stu, but when we can't say nothing about anything, what's the point of having a discussion board? If all we can say is nice things about Fox Pro why not just rename the place to PM Revisited?
I wouldn't even have made a post if Rich had not said what he did. And through all of this, the last few pages, not one response from Fox Pro, not one shred of proof that their claims are true, not one retraction of the statements they made trying to scare people into not using the old WT caller. Maybe we should just leave it out there and let people belive it?
FoxPro makes a fine caller - I dont like everything about it, but I didn't like everything about the Bandit and I dont like everything about the WT. It isn't about the caller - it's about the statements made to sell the callers that are misleading at best.
My suggestion to you is, if you do not want to participate in a discussion among men, go somewhere and participate with the sheep. It wont keep you up at night trying to figure out how to change the world so it will be a better place and we can all get along.
With that said, based on your post over the last few months, I am just going to ignore you from now on, and maybe you should ignore me too. You're not really adding anything to the discussion and I am not a hand holder by any means.
Have a nice day Stu and Happy Easter to you and your family.
Hey Snowcamoman
Shoot me an address - I have something you might like I want to send you.
(http://www.thogamecalls.com/MiscPics/CrowLatta%20003.jpg)
(http://www.thogamecalls.com/MiscPics/CrowLatta%20007.jpg)
She's white acrylic with a decorative stainless steel band :)
I think she will fit in your collection -
Al
I guess since 90% of this thread has absolutely nothing to do with the original topic it would be the perfect place to say Happy Easter to everyone.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y81/MinaskaOutdoors/Japanese-Bunny.jpg)
Geez - you just gave me flashbacks of Weasles bunny -
Now I have to go wash.
Al
QuoteGeez - you just gave me flashbacks of Weasles bunny
Heck I totally forgot about that I wouldn't want to do anything like him. :holdon:
THO,
Thanks a ton, that beauty needs a home in the Arctic.
Here's my guess on what might have happened with FCC, only speculation though. Maybe WT paid a fine direct to the IRS and nothing will or can be found about a citation. FCC probably said that the product cannot be sold anymore with that type of remote and whenever possible, try to get or trade old models with that type of remote in and do not re-sell them. End of story, WT is happy, FCC is pacified.
However, there are/were more things going on with that remote that would not keep it in compliance with FCC. The first thing and the one that would keep any customer from knowing what it was he/she has is the lack of a service type with the FCC ID sticker on the remote. Typically remotes have to list the FCC ID and the type of service. All of my old WT's just have the "LIGHT YEARS AHEAD" sticker with a small FCC ID: NWKAS-2000.
§ 95.194 (FRS Rule 4) FRS units.
(a) You may only use an FCC certified FRS unit. (You can identify an FCC certified FRS unit by the label placed on it by the manufacturer.)
So from there, nobody would even have a clue that the remote they hold is operating as a FRS. If you go to the original FCC Certification for the device:
https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=92451&fcc_id='NW6KAS-2000'
Look at the ID label shown there. That's what should be on the remote.
Also look at the photos for that remote in that link. If you compare those to any of the newer/older FRS style remotes, they're not even close to similar. That's a definite violation of FCC regulations, no matter what kind of "loophole" somebody thinks they found. You can't even change the antenna on a FRS radio and stay in compliance. So the item which was used for so long to market, was in reality a non-compliant FCC item. That was a strong selling point that WT used, I guess if I was on the other side of the fence, I'd fight that one too. If I was going to a knife fight and the other guy has a gun, I'd scream bloody murder to make it fair.
Quick funny story:
I was out testing one day and two guys were driving down the road and stopped to check out what I was doing. I showed them all of the callers and then the one guy asked me specifically about the WT remote and why the range was so far. When I told him what the design was based on, his eyes perked up and he said, "That doesn't exactly comply with FCC laws now does it?" I was amazed that the guy said that and after he told me that he works for NOAA on their communication transmitters I realized why. It was comical that out in the middle of nowhere some guy with far more knowledge on FCC and RF devices dropped by.
Anyways,
Dissecting Mike Dillons statement can be broken down like this in my opinion:
The other problem is that anyone using this system could also be subject to the wrath and fury of the FCC, including fines:
This again goes back to the User not knowing what they're using. Technically you're using a FRS radio and fall under Part 95 regulations of FCC, which states:
(b) You are responsible for all communications that you make with the FRS unit. You must share each channel with other users. No channel is available for the private or exclusive use of any user.
So based on that statement from FCC, I would not be complying with the laws and I'm assuming could be issued a citation if it came to a head in court with lawyers. Of course, at that point WT would be brought up on charges as well I would assume since compliance with the FCC ID sticker was omitted. Typically claiming ignorance in court doesn't go very far.
If someone is using this caller, and there is an emergency that someone is trying to get through on the same channel, it will not go through. Are you condoning illegal activity?
-This one just breaks down into simple safety and knowledge. If somebody knows that their caller has what FCC would consider an illegal remote, then their own morals should direct their path. If a customer has no knowledge at all on how that remote works and it's legality, then how in the world would they know that their posessing an illegal product? Whenever I take an old WT remote into the field, guess what else I take? I take an FRS radio hooked up to a ear bud. That way, if there is somebody with an emergency trying to get help on their FRS radio I can hear them on my radio. By using the ear bud, it also keeps the FRS radio from beeping and spooking critters. Only my left ear hears the light beeps as I mash on the buttons.
Statements made to sell callers goes both ways though. WT obviously has some false advertising going on to pump the product. I mean this chart is a joke and at least if you're going to update your product, update them all and make it legit.
http://wildlifetech.com/pages/advert.htm
-They all use the same RF chips, why would WT be able to be so superior in range anymore?
-Most of the new callers are using digital sounds. How else could I view and edit .wav, Mp3, fxp files? I don't have an analog player in my computer.
-This is the one that really gets me. It's fairly obvious to anybody who has the new e-callers in their hands that there are better remotes around. I'll say it again for those who won't. PUT A LANYARD LOOP ON THAT REMOTE!!!
-Are Animal Sounds Real and Labeled Correctly: WT is about the only company I know of that re-names sounds under different categories. I have a Bobcat Baby and Lynx Baby that are the exact same sound. Does it matter to the animals? No, but to pump a library to make it appear larger isn't exactly honest sales. There are more sounds re-listed, but I won't go into it.
The list goes on with the deception and false claims by WT, but I won't get into it. It's a big industry and keeping on the cutting edge and getting products out that guys want and use only benefits Us. Any company that isn't going to deliver things that the consumer wants is going to lose sales, plain and simple. Imagine if WT made a programmable caller with open source sounds? I'd venture to guess that the sales would probably increase. I'm not a field staff for anybody, but I'm a heavy user and product tester of e-calls. I use what works for me and even use those that don't just so I have a well rounded opinion on what they can/cannot do. Guys who only think one caller is king of all are still in denial I say. The new FoxPro Mark II sounds on the old Programmable WT sound better than many of the WT sounds, plain and simple. Even at the 16bit, 32kHz format (Non-CD quality), they sound great.
Nice Bunny, does it scream if a Microphone is put by its face????
QuoteNice Bunny, does it scream if a Microphone is put by its face????
Only if you find that sweet spot and they all don't have it :shck:
Spent a lot of time trying to get caught up on reading this thread :doh2: whew a lot of reading.
On the original topic I still go with my original statement.
QuoteI have read thread after thread about how they say the FX5 is better than Minaska's Big Country All In One and now they go and make one just like it. confused
I have used a lot of different callers through the years and have settled on the Minaska All In One. I like the remote better, The built in decoy, The type battery and the built in TOA speaker. One extremely good plus about the speaker is they used a metal one. Before owning the All In One I used the foxpro 416 and then the FX3. I always connected a metal speaker to them and turned off there speakers. I personally like the sound of a metal speaker better than the plastic.
I know Foxpro probably has a chart somewhere saying I am wrong there caller is clearer. Thing is I don't need a chart or computer analysis to tell me if what I am hearing is good or bad. Me and the coyotes will determine that on our own.
Maybe a chart showing what sounds and frequency's run off coyotes with real world in the field data would be better served.
As far as the FCC thing "I don't care" The range of the remote didn't effect the sound or durability of the caller. If there ever was a FCC problem real or imagined so what it appears to have been solved and what effect did it have on the callers ability to call coyotes.
There are a hell of a lot of good callers on the market now days so finding one that fits your type hunting is easer to do now days. I see where guys using the casscreek walmart caller are killing a few coyotes and if it works for them great.
In my limited E-caller experience I have found the All In One to be just the ticket for me.
Thanks Snowcamoman,
Interesting read on the FCC situation and your take on things with the WT callers. Not sure I agree with it 100% but interesting take on it anyway.
Al
My personal best is being banned and deleted at PM on my first post. TWICE in two days. Beat that.
"how long do you think there would be wild places to hunt if they were just opened up to anyone from anywhere to hunt?" they call it Arizona
I recieved the following E mail from
bsnarp@yahoo.com
QuoteKinda got your peepee spanked eh big guy??
At least now you know what people really think of jerk offs like you.
Semper Fi. what a discredit to the corps
He did not sign it - for what ever reason :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
A casual reading of the Test Report at
https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=15363&native_or_pdf=pdf
shows that while Snowcamomans's thoughts on the subject are interesting, and present a good threory, they are contrary to the facts.
No disrespect intended Snowcamoman.
The test report shows that the FCC KNEW up front what the remote consisted of, knew up front what the reciever consited of, what it's intened use was, and still certified the remote.
With that in mind, it appears that my Pee Pee did not get spanked. Though I am sure bsnarp@yahoo.com is probably into that kind of thing.
Kiss Kiss sweat heart :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Al - not afraid to sing his name or take a position like SOME poeple we know :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Look at the IP in the internet header of the e-mail, lets see who it is. :eyebrownod:
Yeah, let's see whose sneak attacking you THO.
I agree that FCC did certify that old WT remote and it was certified to operate "lights". Whatever lights it controls are beyond me, but they did certify it and that's that.
That would all be find and dandy IF that remote was the model that was sold the entire time. Different models were sold with different boards, which is a direct violation of FCC. That's a tough one to argue, I'd love to hear the argument for it though. I can post all of the photos of my WT remotes if that helps.
I wonder who the Pee Pee spanker is????
Well, with out going into too many specifics, he has a 417 area code and lives in Springfield MO.
Now who do we know that has a 417 area code and lives in Springfield MO. Hmmmmmmm. I wonder :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Snowcamoman,
If Bill was selling different remotes with the callers, and not getting each one recertified, then shame on him big time.
If you want, I can run over and kick his ass for ya. :biggrin:
And if you want one of the new ones, not a problem either. I'm sure we could work something out and get one to you.
Al
THO Al,
I'm telling the truth about the various remotes and boards, it is a shame that happened and just a case of blatant disregard for FCC regulations. I'll just take one of the new callers if you get one. All of the rabbits and moose sounds please. A few small critters, Pileated Woodpecker and a few Yotes to boot would work. :eyebrow:
You got me on the Pee Pee spanker from Springfield, I'm clueless on who that could be.
Here's the header - - It might have actually come from someone in BC Canada :roflmao: :roflmao: But I'n not sure.
I just did a google search on the BSNARP part of the name and came up with soneone in Springfield MO, and since I just had a conversation with someone in Springfiled MO - well - I could be wrong on this one.
Return-path: <bsnarp@yahoo.com>
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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 13:09:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: bart snarp <bsnarp@yahoo.com>
Subject: FNF
To: Al@THOGameCalls.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
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It's from Redfrog :eyebrownod:
Without a doubt. :biggrin:
Well, now we know where he's spending his time dont we?
QuoteWell, now we know where he's spending his time dont we?
Spanking PeePee's?
Al
Looks like it came from Burnaby, Canada near Vancouver.
QuoteWell, now we know where he's spending his time dont we?
YEP!! On the best little insignificant board on the net!! :biggrin: :roflmao: :roflmao:
THO AL,
Was the email from bsnarp in regards to this thread? If so, what exactly does he think you got your Pee Pee slapped for? I don't see anywhere in here where that happened. Strange to say the least, but I get those type of emails once in awhile from clowns too afraid to say who they are.
The Moon's still pretty full tonight and I'm guessing the guys on the East coast might be asleep or heading to bed. I'm off to find an Easter Yote. Chat with Ya'll later.
New to this site but have been reading a lot on this thread. It is funny to read this thread as I have noticed many of the comments stated in the PredatorMastersForums. I am a green to this sport as one could be. The only reason I found this site was because FP Steve provided the link in a reply to e-callers.
Thanks for the info...
Jim
just got caught up on this thread, I moved over the weekend and spent a day in the hospital so i have no computer till I set it up at home.
Lots of good info. Ya'll know how I stand on foxpro and the slippery people that run that company, that includes the goon squad that follows them around like little puppy dogs.
I will say this, Bill knows what his next step is gonna be as far as callers, it will be pretty awesome and make alot of people happy and alot of others sad!
Thats all I will say about it, please don't ask. Ya'll have to wait to see what comes out.
I will give you one hint, it is NOT a decoy as others might think.
I've heard Mike, that it's now called the FoxPro Maffia - seems appropriate.
On a side note, I tried to e mail my "friend" back, the one that said I got my PeePee spanked and it appears, that Yahoo spanked his PeePee too LOL No more email account - how sad :argh:
It is hard to take a man seriously if he does not have the courage of his convictions to put his name to what he writes. But if I was writing stuff like this
"how long do you think there would be wild places to hunt if they were just opened up to anyone from anywhere to hunt?"
I might hide too.
AL
browning204,
Thanks for the information on the new WT, I'll be re-testing more callers this year including the Game Traks, Western Rivers, Minaska's, FoxPro's and apparently now a new WT (maybe if it's available). It's going to include remote ranges, volume, specifications on components, features, and a bunch more. It's going to break it down so that people can no longer just make blind statements about callers without any knowledge of what they're talking about. Amplifiers, batteries, processors, you name it it's going to be discussed in a professional and easy to follow format. All backed up by facts and product specifications so hunters can get the bottom line legitimate information on most of the callers out there. It's gonna be a good year for the e-caller crowd, things are on the up and up.
Can I buy a Life Insurance policy on you? :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Al
Why, is customer service coming to get me?
Does a bear crap in the woods?
Peter, forgive me if I am off base here and please correct me if I am wrong. When you did the E-caller comparisons a while back on Predator Nazis, you gave a pretty detailed comparisons of the callers you had on hand. But you left out one major fact, sound quality, if I remember correctly.
Now, you told many people which in turn told me that you said the reason that you did not report on sound quality is because it wouldn't be fair to the others because the WT blew them away.
It is obvious that you jumped ship on the SS Martz awhile back because of a disagreement, that's fine and it shouldn't concern any one else. Although Bill has treated me and about 20 other people that I sent to his house and then they quickly went to the nearest ATM to get $ the buy a caller on the spot, VERY well, Only you and Gary Clevenger have a gripe that I can kinda understand.
When you do your newest round of comparisons, are you gonna post them on PM? If so, are you gonna really report true findings no matter who comes out on top and no matter what PM mod. you might upset or what Dillon brother might cry that it is rigged and try to dance around it with complete crap info (as they are known to do?)
Don't take me wrong Peter, I like you, you have given me lotsa great info and I have had fun chatting with you. I still have all the Emails from you because I reread them as needed for a learning tool. I am not calling you out, I just want to see true user info, not smoke and mirrors. Even if WT loses, I am still happy with my purchase and the service that I get with it.
THO Al, Foxpro Mafia? that is an insult to us Sicilians! They are more like petty punks!
Sicilian? Any self respecting Italian would refer to you as North African............ :roflmao: :laf:
Who the heck let HIM in here? :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Al
Quote from: Bopeye on March 25, 2008, 12:28:01 PM
Sicilian? Any self respecting Italian would refer to you as North African............ :roflmao: :laf:
North African?
thats just not nice!!!
:laf:
Browning204: If you are making a concentrated effort to get some of the Foxpro Field Staffers to play your silly game, you are failing miserably. If you are trying to pull Foxpro, Inc. into your cesspool, you are weak on that effort too. My sincere advice would be to get out of that way of thinking, and post what you want to post about products you like, and try to inform readers on this forum with positive information. The experiences I had with the "Unmentionable one", owner and CEO of Wildlife Technologies, Inc., date back to a period of time well in advance to my being named to the Foxpro Field Staff. I proved quite clearly to anyone with enough brains to read simple, clearly written English what kind of ethics the "Unmentionable one" uses, and the thread that was involved at the time on PM got locked tight as a drum. If anyone has a poor memory in that regard, I suggest that they contact Herbert E. Patrick, Attorney, in Clarksville, TN. I feel sure Mr. Patrick, one of the most respected attorneys in TN will be glad to present pertinent facts. This statement is made of my own free will, and not prompted by anyone associated with Foxpro, Inc..
This will be my only comment on this matter, as I fail to see how it ties into what the subject of this thread originally was. I assume your post containing comments like "the goon squad that follows them around like little puppy dogs" is aimed at the members of the Foxpro Field Staff. I hope I am wrong in that assumption.
Quote from: snowcamoman on March 25, 2008, 09:49:59 AM
browning204,
Thanks for the information on the new WT, I'll be re-testing more callers this year including the Game Traks, Western Rivers, Minaska's, FoxPro's and apparently now a new WT (maybe if it's available). It's going to include remote ranges, volume, specifications on components, features, and a bunch more. It's going to break it down so that people can no longer just make blind statements about callers without any knowledge of what they're talking about. Amplifiers, batteries, processors, you name it it's going to be discussed in a professional and easy to follow format. All backed up by facts and product specifications so hunters can get the bottom line legitimate information on most of the callers out there. It's gonna be a good year for the e-caller crowd, things are on the up and up.
I think that's great news and I hope you post your review here on FnF. I, for one, am very interested and I thank you in advance for your efforts.
Semp
Mike (browning204),
Let me address the issues that you've brought up in a more professional method based on facts rather than hearsay. Everybody knows that you're anti FoxPro and Predator Masters, so I won't go into wherever that history originated. First off, I'm the type of person that looks at things and analyzes them for what they are, not what I think they are. I have opinions, but why does everybody on the web need to see and hear them? I've said things out of haste, but I don't make a habit of stomping and complaining about the owner of WT. I have no reason for allegiance, I'm not paid by anybody and it's my money and time that goes into testing. Anyways, let me try to address the issues you've brought up.
Quote
Peter, forgive me if I am off base here and please correct me if I am wrong. When you did the E-caller comparisons a while back on Predator Nazis, you gave a pretty detailed comparisons of the callers you had on hand. But you left out one major fact, sound quality, if I remember correctly.
I gave details on items which I could legitimately test, not items which could only be tested based on an opinion. If you read the testing though, you would actually see that the WT remote won out. I stated features of the remotes, which again is a quantifiable item that can be stated as Facts. Sound quality is an item which I have no way of "testing". It's an opinion based on hearing of what comes out of the speakers. I do and will address sound quality on my next round of testing and I can assure you it'll be done fairly as all of my testing has been. I'll break each item down in terms of specifications and hard data so as to not cause flaming arguments. Nobody can argue with the components installed in a caller. Quality of sounds and recordings can only be done if I can obtain and see the actual sound files used in the callers. This was feasible on all of the callers except the 2020 WT. So how can one ascertain sound quality if the sound-file data is locked up? Since you're close to BM, ask him to make me a model that has open access sounds and send me one. I'd like to see the 24bit 48kHz soundfiles that are supposedly in the new WT's. He doesn't have to worry about me stealing the sounds, I already have most of them anyways.
QuoteNow, you told many people which in turn told me that you said the reason that you did not report on sound quality is because it wouldn't be fair to the others because the WT blew them away.
I don't know where that one came from, but I'd be interested to know who the "many people" might be. At that point in time when testing was occuring, you didn't seem to be around much and if you were, why in the world would people go to you with information? Anyways, at that time I didn't have a test method to legitimately test sound quality. It's based on perception , which isn't a certified method of testing. Personally, it sounds like words BM put in your mouth because when I originally began testing that was an item he wanted me to talk about. I don't argue that WT's have good sounds and a good product, it's a good product and sounds good. Personally I think it lacks features that will probably be coming out on the "new model" (Programmable, Decoy Jack, Remote Lanyard, Glow in the Dark Remote...etc). I emailed BM awhile back that he could easily protect his sounds and offer a programmable caller by simply storing his sounds in a secure bank and then making a section for programming/adding sounds. It's not rocket science and I'm sure if I sent it to a few of my friends they could write the code to do it.
QuoteIt is obvious that you jumped ship on the SS Martz awhile back because of a disagreement, that's fine and it shouldn't concern any one else. Although Bill has treated me and about 20 other people that I sent to his house and then they quickly went to the nearest ATM to get $ the buy a caller on the spot, VERY well, Only you and Gary Clevenger have a gripe that I can kinda understand.
The SS Martz himself is the only ship I've jumped. However, you don't see me slinging mud at him all the time and trashing him like you do to FoxPro or PM? Mike, were you ever directly wronged by FoxPro, or are you riding on other peoples claims? If all you need is a bunch of people's claims against a company to keep going, let me know because I have a list of ex-WT customers one of which filed a lawsuit against the company. I've stated facts about WT and some of their claims. If anybody wants to call me out on them, bring it on, I'm ready for it. Whoever brings it though had better have some facts, not a bunch of weak unsubstantiated claims, like "WT is the best ever". Like I said, the WT is a good product and sounds good, it's the owner that I have a gripe with.
QuoteWhen you do your newest round of comparisons, are you gonna post them on PM? If so, are you gonna really report true findings no matter who comes out on top and no matter what PM mod. you might upset or what Dillon brother might cry that it is rigged and try to dance around it with complete crap info (as they are known to do?)
Mike,
I'll post my testing at any forum around. I'm not paid for or endorsed by anybody, so I have nothing to lose by posting the facts. Do you feel as though my test results were not true? If you think that something I posted was not true, let me know what and I'll address it. Again if you read the test results on PM, you would see that the WT remote had the longest range, what's the problem with that? What is the problem with me posting the FCC information for that matter either?
QuoteI am not calling you out, I just want to see true user info, not smoke and mirrors. Even if WT loses, I am still happy with my purchase and the service that I get with it.
I don't see what smoke and mirrors you're talking about, the WT remote had the farthest range at that time. What smoke and mirrors are you talking about?
I could go on and on with legitimate facts about WT, but I don't need to as I don't need to rip apart the product claims. I'm interested in the products Mike, not the Politics and owners of the companies. If I owned stock in the companies I might treat things differently, but it's about products for the hunters and what they will or will not do. If X company says their caller is capable of something, I want to see it.
Mike,
Let me know how the user can program the 40 channels on that WT remote. If the user can't program it, why is it shown as a feature????? Things like that just chap me.
It is what it is!
QuoteWhat is the problem with me posting the FCC information for that matter either?
Because it clouds the issue and diverts attention from the original complaint against FoxPro.
Simply stated, FoxPro, as early as the summer of 2005 was making claims that the WT remote was illegal and that users of the WT remote could incur the wrath of the FCC including fines, and that users of the WT remote were condoning illegal activity. This was backed up by Fox Pro and others posting the FCC rules for FRS radios, and while the rules information was accurate as it applied to FRS Radios, the context in which they were being used was completely misleading.
The test report from the National Certification Laboratory states
This report has been prepared on behalf of Wildlife Technologies to support the attached Application for Certification of a remote control transmitter, for use under FCC Part 95 Subpart B as a Family Radio Service Station.....It goes on to say
The Wildlife Technologies KAS 2000 RC Transmitter complies with the technical standards for transmitters operating under FCC Rules part 95 as a Family Radios Service StationContinue on in the test report and you will find it stated that
THE KAS 3000 Rc Transmitter is essentially a Midland Model 75-501 FRS Two Way Radio.Read that line again. It seems that the FCC
KNEW what the remote was being used for, and new what it was comprised of, and they
CERTIFED the remote anyway.
That is the crux of the matter. FoxPro mislead the public by trotting out the FCC Rules Part 95 for FRS Radios and showing that the WT remote was using an FRS Radio in the transmitter and receiver, but they failed to mention that the FCC KNEW this and still chose to certify the remote.
That is why stating the FCC rules is misleading and clouds the issue at best.
Now, if FoxPro had said that once the original KAS 2000 RC remote was certified, it was changed without FCC approval, that would have been another issue completely. But that is not how they presented it.
The issues presented that the WT Sound library has been manipulated to make it appear that there are more sounds that there actually are by renaming and cutting up sounds, or that some people have sued WT, or that Bill Martz is the worst example of human being on the face of the earth in some peoples minds are of no relevance to the original statements made by FoxPro concerning the WT KAS 2000 RC Remote.
And before we crucify Bill Martz for his unethical and abhorrent behavior, let me remind you that it was the Canada Fox Pro Rep who sent me an Anonymous Unsolicited E mail disparaging my service in the Marine Corps and who in his official capacity as Spokesman for Predator Masters said in open forum,
"how long do you think there would be wild places to hunt if they were just opened up to anyone from anywhere to hunt?"thus showing his disdain for those of us who fight for hunting rights on public land and who, if he had his way, would take those rights away from us.
If I had to choose between the arrogant attitude of Bill Martz and the desire of the Canada FoxPro Representative and Spokesperson for Predator Masters to take away my right to hunt on public land......
I would choose Bill Martz.
Al
THO,
The FCC information was posted on the testing of remotes because it relates directly to the use of such items. There were quite a few people who asked about this item and it was public information to post. How does posting the FCC information distract from the original post? I see what you are saying and I think I'd be repeating myself if I posted my view on the issue. No matter what happened in the past, the current state of things speaks volumes to me. I'm not going to hold a grudge over any of it and I'd be more than happy to give a new WT a test run with all of the new products out there. Let me know when you go over to BM's house and grab one :innocentwhistle:
I don't know about other people's claims, but I try to call it like I see it, no fluff. Everything I posted before is true and I can break it down further if needed. There's no reason for me to make up things on e-callers and if anybody believes I have, let me know.
Back to the original intent of this entire post since it's off in another dimension now.
FoxPro made a caller that looks like the Minaska Ultimate One. It apparently is a custom shop item and not a "production" run item. Doesn't bother me one bit because like I said before, I don't own stock in any of them, and honestly do not care who produces what. The caller housings/speaker/decoy configuration is similar, but that's where it ends. If anybody comes out with a lone speaker and antenna is everybody going to cry that they copied WT? Seriously, the hunters are going to benefit, why take it to heart like it's your own company? Let the companies worry about product development and PR. We're just a bunch of guys who want to hunt (I'm assuming). If guys are that attached to their callers and so defensive, maybe it's time to get some help.
QuoteThe FCC information was posted on the testing of remotes because it relates directly to the use of such items
Not at all. Your informaton fails to include the fact tha the KAS 200 RC was certified by the FCC.
All that is said is that the Remote uses an FRS radio and then the rules for FRS radios are shown and the reader is lead to believe that the remote is illegal, and per Mike Dillons post, and the information that was on the FoxPro web site, is TOLD that the Remote is illegal.
That is NOT the case, but nowhere in your report, or in the information that Fox Pro published and Mike Dillon posted is it said that the KAS 2000 - RC is FCC Certified.
And it is.
Al
THIS IS THE BEST THREAD EVER!!....... :yoyo:........Red Frog should be named Red Toad he looks like he swallowed a beach ball...Dogboy is an egomaniacal supposed ex-cop with a Hitler complex...and Weasel..well hes just a WEASEL! :hahaha:, BANNED FROM Premenstrual Mistresses, AND PROUD OF IT.. :thumb2:
THO,
QuoteNot at all. Your informaton fails to include the fact tha the KAS 200 RC was certified by the FCC.
I didn't state than any of them were certified, I just give the links so people can see for themselves. I don't have to state what is obvious by clicking on the FCC links. Am I supposed to state something that I cannot prove, other than the facts? It was certified by FCC, End of discussion, I need not argue that item. FCC certified it, it has a FCC ID and the information is available for all to see.
QuoteAll that is said is that the Remote uses an FRS radio and then the rules for FRS radios are shown and the reader is lead to believe that the remote is illegal...
I do say that the remote uses an FRS radio (because it does) and then post the link to FCC's site. You'll also note that there is a link to both RFD's and FRS's so as to keep the information available and easy to read. If somebody actually reads what is posted and is lead to believe that it is illegal at that point, then they've made that conclusion on their own without any assistance.
QuoteThat is NOT the case, but nowhere in your report, or in the information that Fox Pro published and Mike Dillon posted is it said that the KAS 2000 - RC is FCC Certified.
Keep things separated THO, I'm not FoxPro and not paid by or a field staff for. My testing was done by me out of pocket and all of my information was my own. Again, see the above reference to the FCC information. I'm posting the facts, that's it for the testing.
If you're trying to call me out on this item, you've chosen the wrong person because it's pretty clear that I'm just trying to post the facts in the tests. If somebody else thinks otherwise, pony up and go do it yourself. Some people no matter what you do will believe what they want. That's life and that's the great thing about this country. Anyways, have a read and let me know if you honestly think I am in the wrong with my testing or the way that any of it was handled. Keep any criticism for FoxPro or any other company out of the testing information because none of them have control over how I test or what I post. I'm pretty excited about my next go around at e-caller testing. There are some interesting new products out there and more to come, so it should be great. I'm sure I'll take some heat for who knows what reason, but oh well. I'll even get whatever the newest WT around is, so THO or browning204, let BM know to pull one aside for me. :sneer: It'll be tested just like all of the others on a level playing field. It will be level just like before. I might even have a few friends call each company to do some customer service testing for me to boot. Anything goes and if somebody wants to add something new, let me know, I have no problems talking the truth on callers.
Here's my old testing post from PM. Note that the FCC links have changed, but the information is still available at FCC's site. It's just the facts, if you think otherwise post otherwise.
Question: Several people asked me at different times what the legality of these remotes is.
Answer: The use of e-caller remotes falls under FCC regulations Title 47 Section 15 (Radio Frequency Devices).
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_04/47cfr15_04.html
The Wildlife Technologies caller uses a FRS radio as a remote and application for FCC licensing is under Title 47 Section 95 ( 95.191 thought 95.194). Please see the below websites for information on FRS radio regulations
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_00/47cfr95_00.html
Here are all of the companies tested FCC Applications with pertinent information. This is all public information. You can click on Details or any other item under these applications.
FoxPro
https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/cf/eas/reports/GenericSearchResult.cfm?RequestTimeout=500
Western Rivers
https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/cf/eas/reports/GenericSearchResult.cfm?RequestTimeout=500
Minaska
New and updated information on FCC certification
https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/cf/ea...c_id='TSNMOXLR'
Wildlife Technologies
https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/cf/eas/reports/GenericSearchResult.cfm?RequestTimeout=500
QuoteIf you're trying to call me out on this item, you've chosen the wrong person because it's pretty clear that I'm just trying to post the facts in the tests
Peter - I am not calling you out. We go back too far for that craziness to happen here, and if it came across that way, I'm sorry.
What I am saying, is this.
If the KAS 2000 - RC has a jet engine in it, or some bubble gum and tin foil makes no difference once it is certified as a Remote Controlled Transmitter by the FCC.
My issue is the way the findings of your test were presented to the public by FoxPro.
Fox Pro specifically said, and Mike Dillon wrote, that the KAS 2000 RC was an illegal transmitter and backed it up with the FCC rules for FRS Radios, completely ignoring the fact that it was certified by the FCC as a remote controlled transmitter and the fact that it used an FRS radio, once it was certified as a Remote Controlled Transmitter, was COMPLETELY irrelevant.
Fox Pro not only ignored the facts, they put their own spin on them and then they tried to scare people into believing they could be breaking the law and even be fined if they used the WT caller.
If that was not enough,then they tried to play on the public moral conscience by trying to imply that by using the WT caller one could cause another harm should they be out calling when someone is having an emergency.
Don't you find that the least bit deceptive and unethical?
I am curious, and I think every consumer should wonder why, if the Fox Pro line of E callers is so good, do they have to stoop to this level to sell them?
Al
THO,
No worries or apologies needed, I was just trying to show my point of view on the situation.
I can see exactly what you're saying about the whole scenario and I cannot argue the fact that FCC certified the KAS-2000 remote. Nobody can argue it, it's plain as day that FCC certified it FRS and all. Does FCC make mistakes and things slip through their system? It occurs and they have the right to "un-certify" or pull certification on an item. The way FoxPro posted and related FCC information on WT's remote is up to them and I can't argue how they do what they do. I think that the information could have been presented differently, but that's just my opinion. Deceptive/Unethical? Not the way I view it, but I know what the regulations are more than joe blow, and I've already said what could happen earlier in this post. Does FoxPro have to stoop to this level? They pointed out information on WT's remote but FoxPro never went through the process to formally get FCC to issue a citation. I know this because I emailed FCC and recently inquired. If FoxPro really wanted to be the bad guys, they could have gone through FCC's procedures to get that ball rolling. So everybody who really wants to bash on FoxPro needs to rethink the fact that they could have had WT's remote pulled from market probably years before.
Here's the way I see it, hypothetical story.
Let's jump back say 3-5 years or so ago. I own an e-caller company and sell a product. Then another company posts a chart on their website tearing up my product and calling it "Toy Class" along with a remote comparison just bashing my product. The first thing I would do is to get a-hold of this competitors product and see why it's so good. I'd tear into as any Engineer or company would do (Trust me they all do it, so don't anybody say it's not so because that's bogus). As soon as I tore that remote apart, I would've thought, "Hmmmmm... that's a really simple remote, I think I'll make one based on a similar concept." I'd redesign the remote, keypad, functions, etc.. and I'd go through all of the steps to get that product to market. Then, I get to the point where I have to certify my remote and find out that FCC won't certify it for me because it does not meet the FCC requirements. I'd be HOT about this, no doubt, especially since a competitor is trashing me and bragging about their product. I wouldn't have even messed around with posting something on my website, I would've gone through the process to get that competitor's product pulled from market as soon as possible. I know most of you might think that's just wrong, but think about it. You're getting badmouthed by a competitor and at the same time the competitor is using a product you know can legally be removed from the market because of noncompliance. Whether FCC certified it or not, I know that I could get it yanked.
With that said, I can see exactly where FoxPro is coming from. I actually have to give them Kudos for not going through with the formal citation because they have more heart than I would have. I guess when it's looked at from different viewpoints, who is stooping to what level? I hold no grudges against anybody because life is too short and as we all know: Business is Business. Let those guys deal with the politics so we can hunt.
Edit: Just out of my own curiosity and because we're all talking about FCC stuff, I checked out the old WT FCC Certification for the NW6KAS-2000 remote, which was done Nov 2, 1998 based on the information I have. Then, I checked out WT's website on their history to see what remote that model went with. I then noticed that in 1991-Wildlife Technologies designed and built a remote control tape based sound system. Then again in 1995-Designed and developed a solid state remote controlled audio player.
From that information right there, would you assume that there were some FCC legal issues going on with the remotes? How do you legally use a remote 2 years before it was certified? I have some old WT's from the 1995-1997 era and they used the same type of remote that was certified in 1998. That's awful strange that 2 years before it was certified it was being used. Please, somebody try to explain the legality of this one to me. There is no loophole in FCC for that one as far as I know.
Snowcamoman,
Many people like the study because we do NOT have the ability to do this our selves. I like, no love the conversations in this thread...
Thanks TheHunt, I appreciate the kind words.
I'm trying to stay afloat and make my funds stretch until this fall when most of the manufacturers release their new products. I have some stuff to sell that I'll put into the e-caller pot and wait on. I know that the original testing didn't cover a ton, but the new rounds should be great. I'm actually thinking of getting a digital video camera to film and post some of the testing on. I need to be careful and make sure that the sounds don't get put on the web, but I can edit that stuff out. I think with some short videos and pictures, guys can really get a grasp on each product and what they'll do.
First you have to realize that the remote was certified in 1993. Not 3 to 5 years ago. That may make a huge difference.
Secondly, just a casual reading of the test report would show that it is highly unlikely that the FCC made a mistake. It is clearly stated in the report that the remote is basically a midland FRS radio.
Third, the testing was done IN HOUSE by the FCC. It was not subcontracted out as was often the case. Being done in house leaves less room for error I would imagine.
Now, here is what I think happened.
The FCC certified the remote. Fox Pro got hold of it and took it apart as you said Then they tried to build one like it but, they could not get it certified. We do not know what the FCC rules for FRS radios were in 1993 but I am going to make an educated guess that they changed with the times and the popularity of FRS radios, just as the regs for CB radios changed over the years.
Fox Pro might not have been able to get a remote certified because of the changes, and WT might have been grandfathered.
Sour Grapes on Fox Pros part? Mad because of the TOY statement on BM's chart?
Maybe so, but I can show you a quote where a current Fox Pro Field Staffer once said that the Loudmouth had the Fox Pro beat in sound quality.
And finally, it's all a moot point. WT no longer uses FRS technology in their callers. Has not for at least 5 years?
Yet the Fox Pro Field staff still bring it up in an effort to make WT look bad and Fox Pro look good.
That is why we are having this discussion. If it had not been brought back up by Fox Pro this thread would be 4 or 5 pages shorter.
The question then is......
When are THEY going to let it go and move forward?
Al
THO,
Where did you find that the NW6KAS-2000 was certified in 1993? Everything I see is during 1998/1999. There is even discussion about the FRS unit in this chain of emails with FCC:
https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewCorrespondenceReport.cfm?calledFromFrame=N&RequestTimeout=500&application_id=92451&fcc_id='NW6KAS-2000'
The FCC Report of Certification I have was in 1998. If you have something that says otherwise, can you email it to me? Also, in reading the correspondence items, it's interesting to read this part:
"Apparently, the transmitter
will allow one-way voice call as well, if so programmed on the touchpad. Wildlife Technologies will produce the products with the voice call available by pressing A on the touchpad."
https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=210745&native_or_pdf=pdf
It really doesn't matter at this point, but it still is amazing to me that it was certified. I know that none of the 8 WT remotes I have can be used to activate any type of one-way voice calling by pressing A. I don't believe the FRS regulations were much different then. If they've changed, it probably wasn't in regards to this type of item we're discussing here. I would imagine the old regulations could be found somewhere, but it's not worth getting into.
Quote
And finally, it's all a moot point. WT no longer uses FRS technology in their callers. Has not for at least 5 years?
I bought a KAS-2020 in 2004 and their website says that the new KAS-2030 came out in 2006, so the FRS technology was used up until the new model KAS-2030 came out.
I'm certain that at some point, the WT FRS remote issue will dissolve. There is newer technology available to get a new FCC Certified remote with probably over a mile range.
Even without going into the FCC WT certification issue, what is your take on the 1991 and 1995 WT remote use? Legal? Ethical?
Peter,
I can't comment on the 91 to 95 remotes. Up until the later half of 93 I was still on active duty in the Marine Corps and hunting coyotes at that time was the furthest thing from my mind. Between 93 and 95 I was trying to get my family settled, start a new job and adjust to civilian life,
Concerning legality and ethical issues, if you remember, when all this blew up in 2005, I was looking at buying an E caller. I called the FCC to sort out the legal issue for myself.
As far as ethical issues go -
everyone screws up and does things they wish they hadn't. All we can do is do our best and learn from out mistakes.
I try to be ethical in my dealings with others, in both my business and my personal life. I'm not always successful in some peoples minds, but it isn't for lack of trying on my part. I over commit sometimes and that makes me look bad to some. There are a couple people who asked me to build them calls that I still have not completed. One because of time, and one, asked for something really special and I dont think I have found that one piece of wood that will be what he wants. It may take another 6 or 12 months but I will find it, and when I do he will get his call.
There is one person who sent me a couple of calls that were so beautiful that I never felt I had anything to repay him with. That has been over three years now. One day I will have something that will meet what i feel is a fair trade for the kindness he showed me. HuntnCarve, I have not forgotten you, just never had anything that measured up to what you sent me.
I guess I don't fully understand coyote hunting yet. Oh I understand the mechanics of it, the calls and calling, set ups, wind, rifle selection, but I don't understand the God Almighty Importance of being on the top of the heap in a game where most of the time, we just leave the animals lay in the field to rot after we kill them.
This should be a sport where we all help each other, have fun, enjoy the bounty that nature has given us and the friendships we can derive from all of it.
Instead, it is all about who is the best, who can sell the most, who can make himself look the best in other peoples eyes. Why?
I dont buy an e caller to say I have the best e caller on the market, I buy one to kill coyotes with.
I don't buy a rifle so I can look cool to the blue jays when I am out calling by myself. I buy one to kill coyotes with. I dont buy calls to say I have this or that or something else, I buy them so I can make the calls I produce sound better and learn and grow in My craft.
I am a hunter - I buy things that make my time in the woods easier, safer, and more productive. Not to be a fashion statement or an Internet hero on some discussion board.
My boots are well worn, but still very serviceable. My camo has been patched a time or two but it is now soft and quiet in the woods. The bluing on my old Savage 243 is starting to wear a bit on the barrel, but the gun still shoots minute of coyote out to about 200 yards and that is all I can ask of it. It's an old familiar friend that just knows where to go when I bring it to my shoulder.
I've watched Loudmouth, FoxPro, Mionaska, Western RIvers and WIldlife Technologies go at it for years on these boards trying to prove who has the best e caller. No one remembers the past, when they used 78 RPM records to call coyotes. I wonder how many reading this ever had a Tape Player freeze up on them in the wood yet still managed to call and kill coyotes with it when it got warm enough to work?
The mark this and mark that sound libraries, digital this and digital that, 16 bit, 24, 32 and 48 bit sounds - - my god man they are coyotes and guys used to call them with 78 RPM records - when will it all end and we can just go hunting again?
And the worst part for me is the guys who produce the videos that teach others how to hunt. Nothing is more disturbing than that to me. I know that most of these guys have their hearts in the right place, but they get so taken in by the quick buck that it just ruins the whole process. You watch a video and instead of trying to glean a little information out of it, you end up trying to see if the reviewer or the comments on the boards were accurate and you end up missing the whole point.
Nothing will teach you to hunt coyotes in your area like actually getting out there and hunting them. And no amount of money or fame or perceived position will ever come close to equaling the rewards that nature can provide the man who takes the time to sit under a tree and watch the sun rise on a crisp fall day.
Feel free to use whatever rifle, e caller, camo pattern, back pack, or what ever you want. Hunt for fame an fortune if that is your thing. I will hunt because I am a hunter, and I hunt for what the experience of the hunt can give me, not for what I can exploit of it to others for monetary gain, because what I get is much more than I could ever take when I am in the woods.
Have a safe day Peter
Al
Quote from: possumal on March 25, 2008, 03:25:11 PM
Browning204: If you are making a concentrated effort to get some of the Foxpro Field Staffers to play your silly game, you are failing miserably. If you are trying to pull Foxpro, Inc. into your cesspool, you are weak on that effort too. My sincere advice would be to get out of that way of thinking, and post what you want to post about products you like, and try to inform readers on this forum with positive information.
Possumal: I am not trying to get anyone to play my silly game, from the looks of it the game is already been in full swing, Now and before I even came around to these forums.
I am not trying to pull foxpro into anything, they don't need my help, they do it well by themselves.
Thank you for your advice ( I don't remember askin for it) but I have and do post positive things about products that I enjoy. You see, long before I knew about E-callers, Bill Martz, The Dillons, Minaska and all the other stuff I would cruise the forums and read what I could. I read alot about the foxpro on PM but after a while I noticed how the "goon squad" raved about the product and how they treated people who did not have the same feelings, but I blew it off. I ended up buying the WT and started learning about E-callers and all the things that make them work and YES I used foxpro's in the feild. Then it was I noticed, in my opinion how much of a truck load of hype the foxpro's are. And I continuied to watch the Dillons and some mods on pm and how they marched around and screamed "foxpro or die" That is really what caused me to go anti-foxpro. Not so much the caller, but the people behind it and supporting it.
If your so wise on the forums than you will remember that it was ME that got gang raped long before I ever posted a negative thing about anything. I had NO IDEA about the caller wars. I posted that I had met Bill, bought his caller and then it was all over from there. So why don't you go preach your "be kind to others and post happy thoughts" To the people that jumped on me long ago. Why don't you go tell the "goon squad" to tone it down? Why does it have to be the people who DO NOT like foxpro that are assholes?
By they way, I have seen you post more things in a negative way about Bill than I have EVER posted about foxpro.Why don't you take your own advice and be warm and fuzzy?
And you can take my "goon squad" comments and apply them anyway you want.
Peter: I will respond to you at lunch time.
"I was able to play with one at the SHOT show. It honestly looked like a cheap plastic kids toy and I'm betting that as rough as our community is on equipment, it isn't going to hold up very well"
Here's an example of what I was referring to in a prior post. It's a reply from a staffer concerning the new primos call that will be coming out in the near future. I'm sure it's nothing more than an attempt to turn people away from buying a product from a reputable company, that's in competition to the company he represents. Maybe not out right but it's sure easy to read between the lines
This is one thing that I wish the boards could put the reigns on. All he e-caller companies do it, some just worse than others. The same with the custom call people. someone asks about a Sceery, critr' or like and the next thing you know it's so and so's custom that you really need.
Very annoying to me.
THO,
Very well said and I agree that it's all about calling animals and getting out there and doing it. The past is done and things change over time as they always do. People and companies make mistakes and must move on as well. I'm not a cheerleader for anybody and will be the first to help anybody who wants it with anything. I think most people on these forums really do want to give advice to help other hunters and teach the younger generation coming into the sport. Some of the things that go on in these forums just shouldn't happen or even be discussed. Politics will always be just that and no matter how hard somebody argues or tries to prove their point, things never change in some people's minds. I do not agree with all that goes on and how things are done by companies, but they're not my companies to run and we as the general public have a small view of what might really might be going on behind the scenes. I can only ascertain certain ideas based on information that I have available to me. I personally think that WT was in the wrong from 91-97, since there is no evidence of a FCC certification of any sort for a remote. Again, if somebody has evidence or an older FCC certification that is not listed on FCC's site, let me know and I'll eat crow on it. Again, everybody makes mistakes and should be humble enough to fix it and move on, which everybody has done.
Greenside-- I took that as a slam as well. He didn't even try to hide it either. soreloser sure picked his handle well. Thats ahy i posted the link to the new WR call in that thread. Wonder how long it'll take to get that removed. :wo:
Peter, I don't know how to do that multi-quote thing in the same thread so I give it a shot this way.
""but I don't make a habit of stomping and complaining about the owner of WT. I have no reason for allegiance, I'm not paid by anybody and it's my money and time that goes into testing.""
No you don't, I never said that you did but some just cry and cry about it. So Bill called someone a moron? Get over it and grow some balls!!! Peter, we both know people are doing this.
""Sound quality is an item which I have no way of "testing". It's an opinion based on hearing of what comes out of the speakers. I do and will address sound quality on my next round of testing and I can assure you it'll be done fairly as all of my testing has been.""
I understand completely, I was just telling you what people told me. Remember I said that I could be wrong, looks like I was. Thank you for explaining.
""Since you're close to BM, ask him to make me a model that has open access sounds and send me one. I'd like to see the 24bit 48kHz soundfiles that are supposedly in the new WT's. He doesn't have to worry about me stealing the sounds, I already have most of them anyways.""
You know that he just treats me well as he treats most others that I have referred to him well. You know I can't do that!
""I emailed BM awhile back that he could easily protect his sounds and offer a programmable caller by simply storing his sounds in a secure bank and then making a section for programming/adding sounds. It's not rocket science and I'm sure if I sent it to a few of my friends they could write the code to do it.""
Great idea! That would be an awesome caller!
""Do you feel as though my test results were not true? If you think that something I posted was not true, let me know what and I'll address it. Again if you read the test results on PM, you would see that the WT remote had the longest range, what's the problem with that? What is the problem with me posting the FCC information for that matter either?""
I do not think the tests are untrue. I don't think that I ever said that. I could care less about the FCC info. As been discussed here, That was just a scare tactic by another company to use on potential customers.
""I don't see what smoke and mirrors you're talking about, the WT remote had the farthest range at that time. What smoke and mirrors are you talking about? ""
The smoke and mirrors are not from you, sorry if I wrote that wrong. Smoke and mirrors from companies advertising their product. such as "new long range remote" Do they mean the same one that needs the reciever hung on a tree to the transmitter and reciever can communicate??
""Mike,
Let me know how the user can program the 40 channels on that WT remote. If the user can't program it, why is it shown as a feature????? Things like that just chap me.
It is what it is""
Again, you know that I can't do that. I don't know how nor do I care. My remote works fine how I use it.
Peter, as I said before, no attack on you, I was just asking questions as to why and how you did and are gonna do things. I appreciate your comparison and look forward to the next one.
I think you read more into my post than needed to be, again sorry if I didn't write it so it was more clear.
Quote from: Greenside on March 26, 2008, 09:23:33 AM
Here's an example of what I was referring to in a prior post. It's a reply from a staffer concerning the new primos call that will be coming out in the near future. I'm sure it's nothing more than an attempt to turn people away from buying a product from a reputable company, that's in competition to the company he represents. Maybe not out right but it's sure easy to read between the lines
Very annoying to me.
Welcome to marketing 101. Microsoft has used this marketing approach for years. IT professionals call it vaporware. Your opinion that the product is very toyish. Well, it could be a first step into getting into the e-caller market. It it is cheap enough people will buy it. Will Primos will put a video out and the product will sell. Will it be the best? You answered that already!!! Will it sell, Absolutely.
Jim
And another thing, THO is right. Where is foxpro? they love getting into dust ups on PM, why haven't the swooped in here to say their peace?
Are they SKEERED?
I am sure one of the Goon squad has forwarded this thread to them!
I want to read their take on the "your gonna go to jail if you buy a WT" issue.
I think that this has run it's course for me.
I used to have a ton of respect for Rich Cronk -
But one day because of a squabble with another predator hunter, he is no longer telling everyone how great the Minaska Callers are, and instead is extolling the virtues of the Fox Pro. Where is the credibility? What about the guys who bought a Minaska in great part because of what Rich Cronk said? Where are they now? What do they think?
And now, I have had my service to my country disparaged by a Fox Pro Representative, and a Spokesman for a major predator hunting board.
That is the last straw for me.
Jim Renaud - you should be ashamed of yourself for what you said to me. I suppose you are because you were not man enough to sign your snide little e mail.
I want to remind you, sir, that you are able to say what you want, when you want to who you want, because assholes like me stood on that wall every day defending your right to do so. Some gave all, all gave some. And when you slam one of us, you slam all of us.
People join the military for a host of reasons, but those who stay, stay because they want too. They believe in their country, they believe in their freedoms, and they are not afraid to stand up for people like you, even if you do not appreciate what they do or have done. They will always be there. For you. For your family. Even if you are not there for them.
I am deeply offended, as all military men and women should be, because of your remarks. You owe me, you owe all of us, an apology, and you owe us thanks for what we have done to allow you to be the ungrateful man you are.
I shudder to think that Fox Pro shares your feelings. They have not spoken yet, and their silence over your remarks is deafening.
The Marine Corps Motto is Semper Fidelis. We used to joke that some days it was Simply Forgot Us. It is readily apparent in this case that you, and Fox Pro have done just that.
Sleep well tonight Redfrog. There are rough men and women on that wall, and no matter how you really feel about them, they will remain there, protecting and defending you, your family, your way of life, even if you could give a crap less about them.
Al Woodard
USMC Retired
And DAMN PROUD OF IT.
QuoteI am deeply offended, as all military men and women should be, because of your remarks. You owe me, you owe all of us, an apology, and you owe us thanks for what we have done to allow you to be the ungrateful man you are. - Al Woodard
As a military retiree, I too am offended by the remark. To disparage the man's service as a means of insulting him is childish, despicable and beneath contempt. You should be ashamed.
Ralph P. Lageman
CW4 (Ret)
US Army
"I used to have a ton of respect for Rich Cronk -
But one day because of a squabble with another predator hunter, he is no longer telling everyone how great the Minaska Callers are, and instead is extolling the virtues of the Fox Pro. Where is the credibility? What about the guys who bought a Minaska in great part because of what Rich Cronk said? Where are they now? What do they think?"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Al,
I couldn't care less about what you think of me. You have never seen me post one single negative thing about Minaska or the callers they make. Minaska makes good callers, and I have said that many times. People who know me will always hold my credibility very high. They know my word is good, and I refuse to lie for anyone. You have a thin skin which causes you to say things nasty about people. That is why I am letting everyone know that I do not consider you as a reasonable man. I am not sure why FoxPro hasn't posted on this thread, but I can guess. The folks at FoxPro are honest businessmen who try to always take the high road. They know that with unreasonable people like you over here, any honest statement that they may make over here would be a waste of valuable time. I just wasted my time in typing this message too, but at least my real friends will see that your big tough "I am a Marine" talk does not scare me.
Wow! 15 pages!
Jim, you should charge admission for this thread and sell passwords to open it.
It has it all. Suspense, drama, comedy, conspiracy, GOON SQUADS...CRAP!
Goon Squads? Sounds like a Spontaneous Assumption to me. I guess that includes me too.
I'll freely admit that Cronk is borderline goon, but that's only because I know him. Most of the others I can't say for sure because I never met them.
I've met the Borelands in person and have nothing bad to say about them. . I visited with them and Burnham at the Shot Show this year. Don't have any of their products so I can't say one way or another anything about their product. I'll just have to assume that they have fine products from everything I read and what I have heard firsthand from actual owner.
I've talked to Mr. WT twice on the phone (during the Shade Tree days) and found him a little too "New Yorkish" for my tastes. I have hunted behind his units on a few different occassions but could not say they were any better than a hand call. I'm not a fan of louder is better.
I've hunted behind many ecallers over the years. They ALL work (as do all handcalls - except the Olt T-20) and the great thing about the variety is that there is one out there within your affordable price range.
Keep the thread alive.
Browning, THO, Anybody,
No offense taken at all on anything. I think we've all said what we needed and I'll step out from any other issues going on at the moment.
I do want thank anybody out there who has served or is currently serving our country. :congrats:
Uncle Jay,
I like your sense of humor.
Let the Good Threads Roll
Quote from: snowcamoman on March 26, 2008, 04:02:51 PM
I do want thank anybody out there who has served or is currently serving our country. :congrats:
Let the Good Threads Roll
Damn straight!! We owe our lives and freedoms and so do others around the world to AMERICAN Military
ISNT REDTOAD A KANADEEANNE?
How did we get from "My e caller is better than your e caller" to..... your service to the country sucks. ? WOW!
This Redfrog guy is apparently an idiot. Why care what he says while he hides behind his keyboard? I would bet he would be very polite in person with a Marine standing in front of him. :eyebrownod:
Semp
Quote from: Semp on March 27, 2008, 07:04:11 AM
How did we get from "My e caller is better than your e caller" to..... your service to the country sucks. ? WOW!
This Redfrog guy is apparently an idiot. Why care what he says while he hides behind his keyboard? I would bet he would be very polite in person with a Marine standing in front of him. :eyebrownod:
Semp
If he is a
Pro Staffer from FoxPro then
"HE" is a representative of FoxPro and thus
FOXPRO also supports this thoughts on individuals who are in or have been in service to our counrty.
Since FOXPRO has not came on this board to denounce their Pro Staffer then they also do NOT support the USA current, past and future Service people.
Quote from: TheHunt on March 27, 2008, 08:47:24 AM
Since FOXPRO has not came on this board to denounce their Pro Staffer then they also do NOT support the USA current, past and future Service people.
Jim Renaud is not on Foxpro's list of field staffers.
First foxpro was a copycat, now they are unpatriotic & un-supportive of our service people, all because they have not logged onto a board??? :rolleye:
QuoteI would bet he would be very polite in person with a Marine standing in front of him.
If he ever steps in front of this old Marine, he may start out Vertical, but he is going to end up Horizontal.
Redfrog is THE Canadian Distributor for Fox Pro. He is no mere field staffer.
He is also he SPOKESPERSON or Predator Masters -
I hope all of Predator Masters Advertisers understand that Redfrog has no regard for the men and women who serve this country, and that they understand that he is completely against people hunting on public land.
He's also a snake in the grass. Unethical, underhanded and completely untrustworthy.
This is the guy who wanted me to make acrylic calls for his store that he was going to have his name lazar engraved on and when I wouldn't do it, got pissed. I think it is one of the BIG reasons he baned me from PM.
Oh, and that was after I refused to make him wood calls for his store that he would have the exclusive rights to sell.
If you think that is BS - I think KeeKee was made the same offer after I turned him down.
He also supported the lie that I tried to get Hobby Call Makers on PM to cancel their accounts.
One last good one, he was behind Predator Masters sending out e mails to people telling them that if they talked bad about PM on other boards, they could be banned from PM.
Redfrog. - Liar - hater of the military - against sportsmen hunting on public land - and thinks the first amendment only applies if you say good things about PM.
And I can assure you, I can back each one of these facts up.
He is a waste of human flesh.
Al
I forgot one.
He used to have a Yahoo Email account that he used to harass people with.
Used to.
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
And while I am on a roll here -
He stated the PM was incorporated as a Not For Profit Organization.
Does anyone know where they incorporated at? Does anyone know who the officers and BOD of the corporation are?
Why is it such a big secret?
There is a post in the Member Club House from someone asking these very questions. It has been there all week, and no one has replied.
Is it just another big lie? Are PM Members being duped?
Or are they scared to answer because they might be in violation of their 501 3c status?
Only the shadow knows - and he aint telling.
Al
Quote from: Rprince on March 27, 2008, 08:55:20 AM
Quote from: TheHunt on March 27, 2008, 08:47:24 AM
Since FOXPRO has not came on this board to denounce their Pro Staffer then they also do NOT support the USA current, past and future Service people.
Jim Renaud is not on Foxpro's list of field staffers.
First foxpro are unpatriotic & un-supportive of our service people, all because they have not logged onto a board??? :rolleye:
I am pretty sure FP is monitoring this thread... You went to FP site to search for his name? I am assuming... That is great for FP.
people say that foxpro has worked hard in their community to help the sport of hunting, maybe that is true. If so I am sure they would not want someone that has their name attached to them running around saying that the public should not be allowed on land by ourselves. And I am sure they would not want that same person talking crap about American service men and women.
The same service people who fight for a country that allows them to run their little business. If foxpro is watching this board, maybe this would be a good time to chime in, if not then these issues if nothing else should be put infront of them because talking shit about the American Military IS NOT COOL!!!
My guess is that Mike Dillon and the rest of the Fox Pro crew are pro miliatary. They are an American Company after all, and they are from a part of the country where it is more common to support the troops.
I doubt they condone what Redfrog does, but then again, they are a business, and PM is a big site and they have a lot invested over there.
Once again, the dollar rules predator hunting, and as long as that is the case, anything and everything goes. As we have seen.
To each his own.
Al
I landed under sniper fire.
NO. WAIT! :doh2: I misspoke. That was Hillary.
I actually called up FP yesterday and demanded that they send me a "Goon Squad" shirt.
I really did.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that "field staffers" would be considered official spokesmen for their companies.
Nobody here has convinced me that the Canadian Frog was responsible for the spanky spanky email. Also I guess I missed the email quotes slamming the US Marines.
Rich got gang tackled for speculating that WT got spanked by the FCC
FOXPRO got accused of copying Minaska.
PM is accused of being non-profit dickweeds.
Oddly, I don't feel that PM really has to prove anything to anyone over the internet.
Nor does Bill Martz, FOXPRO or Minaska. Their lack of participation is no admission of anything.
If anyone makes accusations, then it's well advised to be damn well prepared to back them up. So far, nobody has done their homework.
Y'all get an "F n F".
QuoteY'all get an "F".
For Fins and Fur?
Al
I can verify that E-mail came from RedToad :eyebrownod: Tell me how much proof you need, short of video footage of him typing it.
Also...I can verify that FoxPro ISss monitoring this thread. Actually I'll go a few steps further..so is Randy Reeves, RedToad, and three other moderators over there. Weasel has tried a couple times but keeps getting stopped at the door. He has to generate a new IP to get through. How bout some times? Need times for each of those? :eyebrownod:
Jay seriously...your under estimating me. :eyebrow:
With that said....I think the threads getting a tad off topic. And yeah now I'm to blame too. :holdon:
Whether RedFrog wrote the E mail or not, I don't know. The E mail , or at least the Quote that was posted here, did not say anything bad about the Marines, or any branch of our great military for that matter. The way I read it, the writer states that one man is a discredit to the corps because of the way he trys to bully everyone. Go read it yourself guys.
Repost as a quote as the thread is too long to find it..
Jim, you are one slick man. Who are the other three Mods. that are watchin?
But I thought this was an insignificant little board? If PM is the best then why are they watching what happens here??
Well, since I know he will see this. REDFROGS a fat DRUNK!
Personally I see no need for name calling on this board. It's pretty easy to be a BIG man and start trashing folks from the protection of your computer. It makes this board look bad as well as the poster. It absolutely serves no good purpose.
Bob
Yeah I think this thread has pretty much run it's course. It's just going to cause turmoil between us FNF'rs if we continue on.
Plus with those guys over here watching every night...they aint getting nothing done over there. :sneer:
Yeah they are. :wink:
Browning i dont condone name calling, but you COULD have said redblob is a pantywaist and girlie man also...:)...all you fellow serviceman on here, usually the guys who badmouth us, are the ones who werent man enough to sack up and do their duty to protect this great nation. Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda, BUT DIDNT.
TheHunt,
Here it is
"Kinda got your peepee spanked eh big guy??
At least now you know what people really think of jerk offs like you.
Semper Fi. what a discredit to the corps"
===================================
See any words that are anti military?
I am all done here. Jims's board has been drug down far enough already.
Quote from: Bob D on March 27, 2008, 08:04:14 PM
Personally I see no need for name calling on this board. It's pretty easy to be a BIG man and start trashing folks from the protection of your computer. It makes this board look bad as well as the poster. It absolutely serves no good purpose.
Bob
Bob you are correct, I am not trying to be a big man nor is name calling usually not my style. Redfrog is an exeption to me. He has typed alot of stupid things and wronged alot of people that didn't deserve it.
I think he deserves everything he gets!
Jim,
That made me chuckle.
I'm sure the fellows from all the boards are monitoring this thread. They'd be foolish not to.
Homeland Security probably is too... going WTF are these disenfranchised terrorists up to anyway...
Let's get back to talking about FOXPRO. My favorite subject because every time their name is mentioned on the Internet I get a nickle (but the name or fascimile derivative has to come from someone other than me).
Just for the record, I don't condone name calling either. I occasionally do it but I still don't condone it. Not an hour ago I was making a beer run and this B*TCH pulled out in front of me causing me to spill my beverage. I regret having hollered the expletives because I don't condone those actions. I got luck though because she turned to look obviously recognizing her name.
QuoteI am all done here. Jims's board has been drug down far enough already
And you are holding one of the shovels Mr Cronk.
One day, you are the Minaska Field Staff, then the next you are the FoxPro Field Staff - hell, I even had to ask what happened when I noticed it remember?
Then this thread gest started, and you come in with your Fox Pro hat on and start telling people to go edit their post because they said something about Fox Pro that you did not like,
Your Fox Pro status doesn't give you Moderator Status here, but I played along with you. I went back and added the smiley you demaded.
Then you made the snide crack about WT - who knows why - and you got a dose of your own medicine and I told you to go edit your post unless you had some proof to back it up. It would have ended there but you had to get that last little shot in, and because of it you got your ass handed to you in a tea cup. Now you want to put that fancy Fox Pro hat on again and take the high road.
You can spin it anyway you want Rich, but you brought up the WT stuff. And of all people, you should know what that is going to do.
One has to wonder if you were just trollng?
Don't bother replying. I dont care.
And I dont think we should get an F for this post from Uncle Jay. We called it dead on the money and should get an A+ for makng PM look like a bunch of "non profit dickweeds" That should give us at least a D.
Al
"Then you made the snide crack about WT - who knows why - and you got a dose of your own medicine and I told you to go edit your post unless you had some proof to back it up. It would have ended there but you had to get that last little shot in, and because of it you got your ass handed to you in a tea cup."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The day a loud mouth like you hands me my head will never happen Al. I took my FoxPRO hat off a couple days ago. This is ME talking now. Take your marbles and go home you snot nosed brat! I hope you are happy now that you drug Jim's board down to the point that it is now known as the home for misfits.
:shck: I'm the only misfit. :shrug: With my high water pants, messed up hair, crooked eyes, electronic gadgets in the living room, etc. I dont have a pocket protector though. :nono: I'm a good fit for a misfit :confused: :biggrin:
Gentlemen, I think it's time we let this thread cool down. I can tolerate a lot of crap, but when we start pouncing on each other it's time to step back and look at things. I've never told you guys what you can and cant post, or what you can or cant say about a product.....but sure hate to see it turn into internal combustion. I dont like seeing you guys rip at each other. I'm asking you respectfully to not let that go any further. :wink:
As far as this thread taking the board down. Ahhhh thats not gonna happen. :nono: There's way to much other conversation and content going on daily.
As far as monitoring this board, I just wanted you to know I'm monitoring it as well. So watch your step!
As far as name calling, I think you are all a bunch of vermin.
Especially that champion character.
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
There, that was kind of fun! :innocentwhistle:
Very entertaining thread... I look forward to reading it every day. Now with this thread going on like it has, what do you think is going to happen when SnowCamoMan posts his tests when he gets all the different callers in his hands.
I personally think the up coming product comparsion thread will be of equal or better in the entertainmen value to the reader.
Thank you everyone for your posts.
Jim
Quote from: TheHunt on March 28, 2008, 10:48:33 AM
Very entertaining thread... I look forward to reading it every day. Now with this thread going on like it has, what do you think is going to happen when SnowCamoMan posts his tests when he gets all the different callers in his hands.
I personally think the up coming product comparsion thread will be of equal or better in the entertainmen value to the reader.
Thank you everyone for your posts.
Jim
Like I was trying to say before but wrote it wrong. If he does post his findings on PM then if the foxpro does not come out on top, the site might have a problem with that. There will be private messages, phone calls or they will think of some reason why snowman was wrong. I too look forward to his posts. I wonder if he will get SPECIAL units for his testing or if he will buy them off store shelves or under someone else's name.
Quote from: browning204 on March 28, 2008, 11:21:03 AM
Like I was trying to say before but wrote it wrong. If he does post his findings on PM then if the foxpro does not come out on top, the site might have a problem with that. There will be private messages, phone calls or they will think of some reason why snowman was wrong. I too look forward to his posts. I wonder if he will get SPECIAL units for his testing or if he will buy them off store shelves or under someone else's name.
I hope he includes one of those Foxaska Technologies callers with the On Star satellite remote in his review . :biggrin: I'm thinkin' about buying one. :wo:
Semp
Everything will be a standard unit that any other person would get. It'll be much better than before and will include lots of pictures and hopefully some short videos of the callers. Things will be done fair and legitimately. There's no reason to compromise my integrity. I will post the results on any site and it'll all be the same information, so whether it's here, PM, NH Forum, Cali Forums...it'll be the same. I'm getting excited about it, I think the new e-callers coming this next season will be an entire new level of products from a bunch of manufacturers. :sneer:
I hope you post it here too snowcamoman. I found your last review very well done. Good Luck getting it all put together again!! :biggrin:
Leave it to Buker :roflmao:
Yeah I seen you in there too :biggrin: Night before last to be more precise
y cant we all just get along????.................. :biggrin:
It's kinda like eating breakfast across from your sister in the morning when we were 7 years old. Gotta put a box of cereal in front of so ya dont have to look at her. We can get along, if we dont have to see em or hear em. :laf:
Quote from: FinsnFur on March 28, 2008, 03:54:22 PM
Leave it to Buker :roflmao:
Yeah I seen you in there too :biggrin: Night before last to be more precise
Prove it. What was I wearing???? :wo:
dang, i actually just looked at the PM mods bio page, them boys is a hard lookin crew...if i was a sheep n saw them coming id bend over n kiss my wooly arse goodbye.... :shck:.........ok.ok that terrible...i apologize to all the little pygmies in New Guinea....GET ER DONE :roflmao:
I think your PJ's Buker. :eyebrownod: Either that or you was heading to a party. :biggrin:
snowcamoman,
Looking forward to your reviews.
Quote from: FOsteology on March 28, 2008, 04:26:40 PM
snowcamoman,
Looking forward to your reviews.
+1 snowcamoman. I've always enjoyed your reviews.
Now for the rest of ya. Lighten up boys. Guess what I did this afternoon? :confused:
Uh......thanks for asking. :biggrin:
I poured about 10 gallons of mollasses on my nekkid body and rolled around in the fresh cut grass......... :wink:
The best part was turning my four dogs loose and letting them lick it off me............. :doh2: :puke: :roflmao:
Bopeye -
Fresh cut grass?
BITE ME
I just got done snow blowing the 5 inches that fell today.
Now, if you ever make it north, I will show you what to do with molasses and fresh snow - they call it Sugar on Snow - and old timers treat. (actually, we use Maple Syrup. REAL maple syrup, not that Aunt Jemimah's fake stuff.)
Al
Your on Al..... :eyebrownod:
This molasses wasn't out of no Aunt Jemima bottle neither. We used a horse powered press to squeeze the cane and then cooked it until it was sweet. There's an old man that lives not too far from me. I go to his house about every year to help him make molasses..........YUMMY!!!!! :biggrin: :wink:
QuoteI poured about 10 gallons of mollasses on my nekkid body
:confused: How many moles would it take to make 10 gallons??
:roflmao: :roflmao:
Sorry!! It was just out there Bop!! :shrug: :laf: :laf:
Yup Bopeye, they will start tapping the trees any time now. The sap will be flowing and the sugar houses will be smolking, and life will be good in New England again. Once this damn winter goes away :madd:
Al
Lots of trees are already tapped.
I used to run sap lines in Highschool. Sitting in a sugar house gets boring after a while. But we made some GOOOOOD syrup.
QuoteLike I was trying to say before but wrote it wrong. If he does post his findings on PM then if the foxpro does not come out on top, the site might have a problem with that. There will be private messages, phone calls or they will think of some reason why snowman was wrong. I too look forward to his posts. I wonder if he will get SPECIAL units for his testing or if he will buy them off store shelves or under someone else's name.
Mike,
Didn't you mean PUBLIC instead of PRIVATE message ? :confused:
Quote from: The Bandit on March 28, 2008, 08:46:24 PM
QuoteLike I was trying to say before but wrote it wrong. If he does post his findings on PM then if the foxpro does not come out on top, the site might have a problem with that. There will be private messages, phone calls or they will think of some reason why snowman was wrong. I too look forward to his posts. I wonder if he will get SPECIAL units for his testing or if he will buy them off store shelves or under someone else's name.
Mike,
Didn't you mean PUBLIC instead of PRIVATE message ? :confused:
Bandit, yes PUBLIC messages because the mods. sift through them, thanks for setting me straight! :yoyo:
Quote from: HaMeR on March 28, 2008, 06:04:36 PM
QuoteI poured about 10 gallons of mollasses on my nekkid body
:confused: How many moles would it take to make 10 gallons??
:roflmao: :roflmao:
Sorry!! It was just out there Bop!! :shrug: :laf: :laf:
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: Moles :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Quote from: HaMeR on March 28, 2008, 06:04:36 PM
QuoteI poured about 10 gallons of mollasses on my nekkid body
:confused: How many moles would it take to make 10 gallons??
:roflmao: :roflmao:
Sorry!! It was just out there Bop!! :shrug: :laf: :laf:
BITE ME FRIEND!!! :eyebrownod: :laf:
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
WOW what a thread :wo: it took me two days to get through it all.
While I got a lot of info from it there sure was a lot of extra stuff. :doh2:
I guess for now I'll go work on my homemade ecaller and the money I saved up will go for a Nightforce scope or maybe some night vision equipment.
The one thing I really like is that none of the posts disappeared like mine did on another site :bowingsmilie:
Take care all,
Mike
Quote from: yotefever on March 30, 2008, 01:51:31 PM
The one thing I really like is that none of the posts disappeared like mine did on another site :bowingsmilie:
Take care all,
Mike
Mie, you won't find that "write what we want you to write" here like over there. That's what makes Jim so cool and this site awesome!
HOLY CRAP!
I have a Scorpian and an SP-55 speaker, this unit just hooked it all together. If Foxpro copied Minaska, that is the greatest compliment there is. I have no beef with either company. When I got my Scorpian I complained about a couple things on the Foxpro site and PM, nobody bashed me???
I guess I aint worth bashing LOL.
I chose the FP due to the remote other wise I think the Minaska and FP are about the same. I have not owned a Minaska but I have used one.
Carl
Bofire,
I think you will love that caller. I recently purchased a 15 watt TOA to try with my Scorpion. It is very loud, and the tone sounds good to my ears. As soon as turkey season is over, I will have to do a side by side comparison between SP-55 and the 15 watt TOA. I know that the coyotes won't care one way or the other, I just have this disease which causes me to try different stuff like that. :)
Rich: I think I am infected with it too. I haven't broken out with any kind of rash yet, but I sure do itch to try things. One thing is sure to this marsupial's judgment, any coyote that can't hear the SP-55 or the TOA speaker is a candidate for the deaf critter farm. :confused: :laf: