Scent Lok

[FOsteology]

Test have shown over and over carbon and coconut carbon can not be reactivated in the low temps of a dryer. it takes 200 plus degrees to do this. Once the carbon is exposed to the air it starts accumulating scent on the carbon particles and more than likely before we even buy it the carbon is saturated and cant absorb anymore scent. So with no way to reactivate it the carbon is useless to us as hunters and just adds another expense.

Yup! It's already absorbed all it can while in the factory before it ever gets to the store shelf.... which wasn't as much as the claims has alluded as per the good Dr.'s analysis.

Also, in order to re-activate activated-carbon, it must undergo a process called Pyrolysis. To fully re-activate saturated activated-carbon, you must heat it to approximately 800 degrees C or 1,472 degrees F (not 200 degrees), in a controlled atmosphere of low oxygen concentration to reduce the possibility of combustion.

This is scientific fact and is even stated in the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers â€" Engineering and Design, Adsorption Design Guide, Design Guide No. DG1110-1-2, if you’d like to check it out for yourself. This fact is not however mentioned on any of the popular scent elimination clothing manufacturers’ websites....

One of the most popular scent elimination clothing manufactures instructs consumers to simply place worn garments in a common household clothes dryer for 20 to 30 minutes to re-active the carbon in the garment. The average temperature generated by a clothes dryer does not even come close to being able to generate the extreme temperatures necessary to drive out contaminants absorbed in the many micro pores and channels of activated-carbon. In fact, most residential clothes dryers only heat up to a temperature that is well under 200 degrees F.

Those of you, whom use water filters or air filters in your homes, think about it. Why can’t you just boil your filters in hot water or throw them in the oven or microwave for a few minutes to re-activate the carbon filter media. You can’t..... You don’t own special multi million-dollar pyrolysis thermal regeneration equipment that produces enough heat to re-activate carbon. Therefore, you have to buy new filters every now and then.

Re-activating carbon for industrial uses is big business. Type in the words “activated-carbon” in your favorite Internet search engine and you will see what I’m talking about here. In order to fully reactivate the activated-carbon in one of the many scent elimination garments on the market, you might as well just throw the garment in your campfire, because the extreme heat necessary to re-activate the carbon would likely destroy the garment anyway. 

Forgive my sarcasm, but I tend to get irritated when I see good folks getting duped. And as a class, I think hunters are a pretty good bunch. So as a product, I think all the activated-carbon scent elimination clothing products on the market are nothing more than gimmicks!

I do not believe, based on sound science, these garments are even effective the first time you use it. Think about it. Each garment would have to be manufactured and placed in a sealed, scent proof bag when shipped and remain sealed on the shelf at retail stores. And of course, we know this simply isn't so.....

From the minute the clothing is manufactured, it begins to adsorb “stink” and continues to adsorb “stink” while awaiting an ignorant, misinformed consumer to purchase it. It is likely that the activated-carbon contained in the garment is already completely saturated with “stink” upon being purchased.

Many of the scent proof garment manufacturers somewhat acknowledge this, in an attempt to bring some legitimacy to their product. They recommend that you immediately wash and re-activate garments by placing them in a clothes dryer as soon as the product is purchased. Funny, they also happen to recommend their own brand of laundry detergent that is special made for these special garments..... 

As I explained above, washing and drying the garment is merely an exercise in futility. At best, the only way these garments could be manufactured and utilized effectively would be if they were designed for one time use. In other words, they would have to be disposable.

The military actually uses activated-carbon suits as a kind of chemical protection garment, but they’re a single-use, disposable garment and not intended for multiple washings.

Here is something else you should consider before purchasing one of these products: activated-carbon’s adsorption effectiveness when used in an air filter application becomes greatly reduced when it is wet. So what happens when you sweat during those humid early season bow hunts? That’s right, your clothing gets wet and becomes even less effective.

So why the craze? Why were so many hunters rushing out to purchase these garments, when the science-based fact is that they don’t work?

As I mentioned earlier, consumer ignorance is one reason. I think another reason is that many hunters so badly want to believe that they can purchase something that will render them invisible to a whitetail or elk’s nose.

Many of you have probably read articles by authors that claim their scent elimination clothing was pinnacle in helping them tag the biggest buck, with out it, the hunt would not have been successful. I truly believe the fact that these hunters who wore these garments while achieving success, can be chalked up to being merely a coincidence. Many of the authors who wrote these type articles failed to mention they were wearing their lucky hat and that their lucky rabbits foot was in their pocket at the time too! 

All sarcasm aside, I think many successful hunters who wear these special garments fail to recognize that they have been consciously paying closer attention to personal hygiene techniques before every hunt.

You must understand that none of the success story articles that push these special garments are based on science studies. They are opinions.... misinformed ones at that.

It is said that a deer can smell nearly 1,000 times better than humans. You cannot legitimately observe the effectiveness of these garments or read a deer's mind. No one, to the best of my knowledge, has contracted a non-biased independent laboratory or university to demonstrate the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of this clothing.

It is my belief that the manufacturers of these specialty garments know what the results of such a study would show..... therefore it would not behoove them to undertake such an exercise. So they just claim the garments are field tested by the product-pushing pros.

This is just my opinion,.... but it’s one based on sound science, education and a realistic view of product marketing techniques....

My apologies for the long windedness.

[Rich Higgins]

Fosteology, I asked what you based your conclusions on because, unlike you,  the majority of internet hunters simply parrot what they have read,  often by someone they admire such as B.S. who has posted on PMS that if anyone were to show him a cover scent that worked he would drink it. Statements such as those are made in ignorance of the olfactory system of the coyote.

The coyote's system is comprised of two components... detection and analysis. Everything within the coyote's rostrum, from the rhinarium at the anterior to the subethmoidal shelf at the posterior and everything in between is designed to capture and detect scent molecules in parts per trillion. Detection is a done deal, there is no escaping it. So when someone says that you can not fool a coyote's nose I have to agree.
But detection is only the first half of the system's components.
When enough molecules have been deposited in the epithelial mucosa for complex analysis the neurons fire off an electrical impulse to the olfactory lobe and then on to the frontal cortex. It is estimated that a full third of the coyotes brain is dedicated to scent analysis.
Scent analysis is also comprised of two components.... interpretation and perception.
These we can dink with. These we can influence and exploit.
If you bring your science education to bear it will quickly become clear.
You have been calling all day, you are tired and sweaty, and on the last stand a coyote pops up out of a wash or hollow 30 yards straight downwind and gets a snoot full of you. Detection is immediate, including location and distance.. interpretation is.. a rank human is very, very close.. perception is one of fear and dread of an immediate and deadly situation. Your close strong odor was like a slap in the face or a loud scream in it's ears. The coyote's reaction is often as though it had been poked with a cattle prod.
You can use scent control to alter the coyotes perception.
Reduce your odor, body and clothes with Scent Away, Forget the Wind or borax, baking soda and hydrogen peroxide, or any such.
Use mist or a trapping lure or an attractant downwind.
When the coyote pops up 30 yards downwind detection is immediate but it is like a tap on the shoulder or a whisper in the ear rather than a slap or a scream and often the coyote's interpretation of the "small" or "quiet" human odor will alter it's perception of danger from panic to caution and combined with mist or lure will often trigger it's curiosity to keep it in close proximity for extended periods.
Plenty of time for a camera or a shot at your leisure.

I am amazed that the product manufacturers have never addressed this fact. Don't they research their products and their effects on their target species? Don't they understand the physiology and especially the analysis component of the olfactory system?
It seems their advertising would be more effective if they did.

[Rich Higgins]

Fosteology and CCP, thank you for bringing me up to speed on the true facts of carbon clothing.
I was prepared to shell out some bucks to reduce my scent signature.
I'll use some of the savings to buy you guys a beer someday.

[FOsteology]

I am amazed that the product manufacturers have never addressed this fact. Don't they research their products and their effects on their target species? Don't they understand the physiology and especially the analysis component of the olfactory system?
It seems their advertising would be more effective if they did.

Rich,

It would seem that the product manufacturers have indeed studied their target species..... US!

Unfortunately, the vast majority of products being produced and marketed are geared more towards separating the cash or credit card from our wallets. 

[CCP]

  Rich  I know where your coming from and agree that less scent makes a less weary coyote. Most of us do to some degree try to diminish our scent in some way. I personally the day I go hunting have coffee and a few cigarettes early in the AM before putting on my hunting gear. I don’t smoke again until I quit hunting for the day. 

In my early days of coyote hunting I just hunted, and then I went through a phase of stealth mode and carried my clothing in a bag and put them on right before walking into a stand. Then I learned how to setup better and have a pretty good idea of where the coyotes were coming from. I feel teaching someone more about locating and setup will and does make a coyote hunter more successful than teaching him scent control.

If someone is constantly telling me how Scent Loc or any product like that is constantly saving there butt I have to conclude they don’t know how to hunt. If a TV personality is constantly on every episode is telling me it was the Scent Loc that helped get the animal close for the kill. Then Bubba down the street is constantly killing deer while smoking and sipping on a glass of tea, I have to conclude Bubba is a hell of a lot better hunter than mister TV personality.

If a coyote comes from a different location than I thought I don’t think Dayum I should have had some Scent Loc on but rather Dayum I need to spend a little more time with boots on the ground.

Do you think when a TV personality wearing Scent Loc does get winded/busted he will show it and say the Scent Loc failed him? I think not! They will lie to you to help there Sponsors sales all for as little as 2 or 3 grand and some just for a free product and a little perceived fame. 

Rich you and I are alike in we aint going to lie to the public just to get a sponsor or a free product. A successful product to me comes from 20 or so successful hunts and I then look at the info gathered in each hunt and try to determine what percentage of success can be attributed to the product.

[vvarmitr]

Rich you and I are alike in we aint going to lie to the public just to get a sponsor or a free product.

And for that I/we respect you gentlemen! 

[THO Game Calls]

In a hunting scenario we do not have to eliminate our scent to avoid detection and alarming animals downwind from us. We simply have to alter their perception of their interpretation process during the analysis portion of the olfactory process.

Talking like that at our hunting camp will get a pick up backed up against the door of the outhouse when you're in it.

And probably not moved for at least a week.

[Carolina Coyote]

A lot of interesting comments in this tread, I have never been into Scent Loc or the Rubber boot thing. have you ever listen to someone walk in the rubber boots? I think it all boils down to good common sense, personal hygiene , and the Setup, What ever  you are Hunting Coyotes or Deer. cc

[Rich Higgins]

    In 1992 Mojave Sportsmen held the first Antelope Eaters Coyote Contest in Seligman Az. The contest mission is coyote suppression prior to antelope fawning.
52 teams from three states turned in 156 coyotes that first year..
Last year 293 hunters turned in 54 coyotes and they were taken outside GMU 10 which the contest is supposed to benefit because the coyotes in Unit 10 no longer respond to distress calls.. 
    PVCI has 7 monthly contest hunts Sept-March. In the past as many as 60 teams participated with winners usually turning in several coyotes with an occasional bobcat and fox. Tyler and I hunted the Dec. contest.
16 teams signed up and only 2 teams turned in anything. 2nd place team had one fox. Tyler and I took 1st with 4 coyotes. Everyone else blanked.
   Barry Fifer Memorial Contest was held last week. 4 coyotes and 2 bobcats won first money
   White Mountain Contest was held two weeks ago. 32 teams turned in a total of 19 coyotes and 1 bobcat.
   The Save a Fawn Hunt is an annual coyote calling hunt sponsored by AZG&F and APC.
The last 2 years not a single coyote has been turned in.
    Coyotes have responded to intense pressure by going nocturnal and becoming very reluctant to expose themselves for any reason during daylight hours. Predator calling has literally exploded in popularity in the US and especially in Az.
We seldom bother with what are considered "traditional " stands. We move into the coyote's comfort zones , their bedrooms, where visibility is sometimes  just a few feet. The coyotes can and will approach from any direction . We only know that they will wind up downwind so we try to leave that as open as possible but the wind is often variable because of swirls in close cover.
Scent control and misting are essential.
   The callers that set up a stand in the traditional manner with good visibility, downwind open, knowing what direction the coyotes should approach from usually don't bother going back to check-in because they have nothing to turn in.
   Gentlemen, this is the future of our sport. Predator calling is the fastest growing of the shooting/hunting sports.
Predator Xtreme surpassed Field and Stream and Outdoor Life as the largest circulation outdoor glossy a couple of years ago.
Firearm and ammo manufacturers have dedicated products for predator hunters. New predator calling TV shows are popping up constantly.
Cabella's front office drew up the curriculum for the calling seminars for their fall hunting extravaganza for the first time this year.
The International Sportsman's Exposition recognized and included predator calling for the first time last year.
There are products to be sold and dollars to be made. Aggressive advertising and product promotion in the FoxPro style is upon us and the resultant onslaught of exuberant but inexperienced neophytes making every mistake possible while exerting constant pressure on every coyote within an hours drive will be the catalysts that launch Darwinism into fast forward.
     Varied, Adaptable and Complex are the three adjectives most often used by biologists to describe the nature of the coyote and we are going to witness the coyotes adapting to this pressure just as they did beginning in Missouri in 1825 and in every area  that has applied concentrated and sustained pressure since..
Predator callers had better become as adaptable as their quarry and learn to use mist, lure/attractants and scent control/suppression with advanced tactics and techniques.


     

[Okanagan]

These are remarkably valuable, informative posts, both the science and the declining success stats in the heavily hunted areas.  I have two reactions:

1. I learned some new info, some of which explains coyote behaviours I've seen,.

2.  I am REALLY glad I did most of my coyote hunting from 1965 to 1985.  Inside the LA city limits to the Mojave to the Interior of BC and a bunch of other places, coyotes were abundant, incredibly gullible and easy to call, and for some of those years, their hides brought serious money.  I never met another caller in the field nor saw sign of any.   Guess I lived at a good time for calling coyotes.  Started in 1963.

[George Ackley]

Rubber boots are a must have when  hunting big white tail.
Sent control clothing also are a must have when I am hunting big deer.
I don't wear the expensive stuff but I wear what I can afford.
I keep my close in a sent control bag from dryer to field.when hunting deer.
Coyotes and other predators I am calling to me, so reality is I am picking there last resting place
so I am not big on boots or clothing more so on the wind.
why do I say I still use them? because I am a big believer in CONFIDENCE and rubber boots and sent control gear on stand and to the stand makes me feel that much more confident on tricking big bucks.and on some big bucks confidence is all you have

[Rich Higgins]

3 or 4 years ago I was banned from PMS in part because I challenged 8 FoxPro field staff to a contest in response to a post that Steve Dillon made.
The contest was to determine if I could photograph more coyotes with their noses stuck in a Minaska speaker or decoy than the 8 staffers could with their FoxPros.
I knew from posts that BS and GG and the Pursuit boys had made that they did not believe in scent control or misting because
"You cannot fool a coyotes nose" so there is no way they could consistently photo coyotes with the caller together in the same frame.
I was absolutely confident that I could do this at will because I did practice scent control and attraction....
and this..
and this..

[Rich Higgins]

The producers of the predator TV shows are going to feel the effects of  the pressure that they are putting to the coyotes in confined areas week after week. Predator Pursuit and Mojo Outdoors (Byron South) have exclusive calling rights on large Texas ranches.
The coyotes will go into siege mode quickly with that kind of pressure. They are going to have to diversify and tape other animals in other areas to compensate for the lack of animals on film or tape.
Les Johnson said that Mojo had sent emails to him and several other TV show producers suggesting that they stop showing repeated kills on the shows because new callers would believe that coyotes coming into every stand was the norm and it just wasn't fair to the newbies. He suggested that they show blank stands in proportion to realistic success.
A listener suggested that to him it sounds like Mojo is trying to level the playing field between Les and his number of successful stands and Byron and his level of success.
Les will continue to put impressive numbers in front of the camera. It will be interesting to see what Byron does.

[KySongDog]

Les Johnson will kill more coyotes by accident than Byron South will on purpose.   The only thing BS is good at is bs.    His "Callin' in the Thick Stuff" video is a perfect example.   I won't go as far to say that he hunts pen raised coyotes but I wouldn't be surprised if he did.   

[Okanagan]

3 or 4 years ago I was banned from PMS in part because I challenged 8 FoxPro field staff to a contest in response to a post that Steve Dillon made.
The contest was to determine if I could photograph more coyotes with their noses stuck in a Minaska speaker or decoy than the 8 staffers could with their FoxPros.

That was IMO the funniest and all time greatest internet exchange, on any forum.  You were putting up fabulous photos of coyotes almost touching Minaska e-callers, and the FoxPro/PMS syndicate were frantic to stop you.  As Dillon chipped at you he painted himself into a corner by inviting a challenge, and then backing down when you took him up on it and gave him 8 to 1 odds!  In order to rescue him the PMS lackeys banned you and deleted Dillon's embarrassing threads.  He had made himself and FP look soooo bad that the sycophant PMSers had to rescue him from his own words.   It was hilarious except that I feel bad that they banned you. 

For any that missed it, when Dillon backed away from the challenge the mods posted inflammatory stuff, and then used that as an excuse to shut down the thread.  They deleted Dillon's posts that made him look bad and anything that made Rich look good, and then put it back up again.  Then they banned Rich of course, even though his posts were courteous throughout.

[securpro]

  This thread hurts my eye's and I can't read anymore. I have some Scent Blocker stuff and a Dream season suit but I didn't buy it for the scent elimination BS, I bought it for the design and extremely quiet ,soft material. I have killed far more critters using little to no scent control products, IMO the more you use, the less you see.

This is the only true way to eliminate odors IMO


   

[Rich Higgins]

Securepro,
what was the price tag on the "Scent Blocker stuff"?

[THO Game Calls]

Mr. Higgins

Have you given any thought to the long term effects on coyote populations by hunters using scent suppression, lures and attractants and being able to hunt in "their bedrooms" ?

 

[bigben]

Thats sumthin I have been wondering for a while now al.  If there is a new fad and everyone starts doing it what happens in lets say 15years after everyone has been hammering one thing.  will that one thing still produce or will the animals evolve and stop responding to it? 

[Rich Higgins]

Mr. THO,
I'm sorry.
I do not understand your question.
The inference is that you may believe or you think that I may believe that calling coyotes "in their bedroom" using scent products and scent control may be so effective that it would significantly reduce coyote populations over a period of time. Is that correct?