Ok....whats the trick to measuring powder and being consistent with it?
Do they make a digital scale that doesnt drift between throws? The ones I've used drift and lose zero. I've researched tons of digital scales on the net and the reviews always have someone finding the same thing with the one they use. Yet the things range anywhere from 14.99 to 500.00 bucks :confused:
I dont understand why they even manufacture and sell these powder measurers /charge throwers. You cant rely on any type of accuracy with any of them what so ever. The only thing your guaranteed is that you'll get a dose of powder in your cup. :iroll:
$200 bucks and they function like a .49 cent spoon. And your still gonna set there and twirl that trickler, only to find out that the scale drifted, making the whole charge junk...again. :rolleye:
How do some of you deal with measuring, and how much variance is too much?... a 10th of a grain?...??
If you load lots of rounds, my method is too slow. I am a dinosaur. I have an Ohaus 505 (or 050?) balance beam powder measure (purchased about 1980) that measures to the tenth of a grain and then finer by the pointer on the beam. I trickle in every round to as exactly identical a weight as that scale can measure. (A criminal defense attorney told me that it is the scale favored by drug dealers because of its accuracy :shrug: :yoyo: :wo:).
Never tried a digital scale so am silent on that and probably should have been re the manual balance scale!
Get you a decent balance beam scale for checking and setting up your measure.
Then go buy a Lee Perfect Powder Measure.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/540522/lee-perfect-powder-measure (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/540522/lee-perfect-powder-measure)
I have used several and this cheap little plastic measure is more accurate than any of my higher priced ones.So much so I have sold my others and one of those was over 250 bucks.
Make sure and do as instructions say and run a pound through it first. Sum small powders leak out the arm sometimes and I put a bath cloth under it to catch.
My powder trickler is something that is rarely used and only when making up just a few special rounds.
Rick's got a RCBS beam :confused: I guess I never thought of using the beam to check the charges directly from the measurer. They might be closer then I'm giving them credit for, while the digital scales screws up.
What scares me about the Lee Perfect Powder is, no where does it mention anything about accuracy. It's almost like they know it's just a fancy scoop with a lever. In fact the words accurate/accuracy isnt found on the page anywhere. :shrug: :confused:
Here is the one thats really got my attention (http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/scales-measures/55-std-baffle-stand.php) after several hours of reading and researching. But again...how do you know it's not another high dollar scoop. :madd:
I use a beam scale to check each load, from my powder measure. That way I know it is right, never had a digital scale, the guy who got me into reloading had one and used it for a bookend for his reloading manuals, said it kept losing zero.
The ole #55 was my first and I see they now include a baffle. The one I had I made one for it. I replaced it with the Match Grade Redding 3br but after awhile I realized I like the ole #55 better and went back to it. So then went to the Redding LR1000. Then in 2001 I went with a Lyman 1200 DPS 3 Digital Powder Scale and it worked well for a few months then was getting hit and miss loads. I returned for another and got the same results and found the forecent lights in my basement were causing the problems.
During this time an old timer at the reloading shop suggested I try the Lee and I thought 20 bucks what the hell. My first impression was it sucked,cheap, inconsistent and leaked. I ran into the old timer and he said run a pound of powder through it. I did and it is VERY accurate with all types of powder and eventually got rid of all my other measures. It has thrown pound after pound of powder accurately. I still check every 5th round no matter the measure I used and it still amazes me how accurate this little simple plastic thrower is.
I wonder why they say to run a pound of powder through it? To fill the cracks so it stops leaking?
What'd makes you say the florescent lights caused your scale problems?
QuoteI wonder why they say to run a pound of powder through it? To fill the cracks so it stops leaking?
What'd makes you say the florescent lights caused your scale problems?
It still leaks from time to time with some powders. After running the pound through it,it ran smother.Maybe some graphite would work as well and faster.
Florescent lighting was what I was told from the reloading shop I shopped in at the time.Also found any breeze from fans to A/C kicking on screwed with it as well as cell phone and computer close by. The shooting friend I sold the last one too put it in an outdoor shed with no problems until he installed some new lighting. I think the ballast has something to do with it. I have read since some have these problems and some don't. I guess I had an unlucky one.
You wont go wrong with the #55 just saying I got better end result for a fraction of the price as other brands and its been over 10 years with the same measure.
I always use a quick change powder measure adjusted just a little light then put powder on my RCBS 502 scale and trickle till she is right. (Did that rhyme? :confused:)
Personally I think this is a little bit like which is better - Remington or Ruger. I had a Lyman that would throw + or - .8 grains all day. I finally set it low and then would finish the charge with a balance scale. A friend here in town has a Lyman that will throw + or - .3 grains. He liked his and I didn't like mine. I have had similar experiences with other reloading tools as well. One person likes it and another doesn't. Unless you are willing to spend some big bucks to get a really good digital scale, you are probably going to be better off with a balance scale. Just remember to balance it out at the start and you are good to go.
As a side conversation and a source of discussion, bench rest shooters (who to me are pretty precise people) worry the least about the powder when reloading. Not to say that it is not important, but if you asked them if they cared if their load was off a few tenths either way or if they were willing to shoot mixed primers, they will take the powder variation.
Jerry
I use a RCBS Powder Pro electronic scale with a RCBS electronic trickler. I do calibrate the scale before using with the weights provided. From using it so much, I know when the scale goes out of whack slightly. Then I'll once again recalibrate it. We're only talking a variance of a a tenth grain...
I use my RCBS powder dispenser to toss the bulk of the charge. Then I'll place it on the scale, and under the trickler and top it off. Pretty darn accurate. And I've never had a problem. Safety is a definite priority. So that comes first. If a charge is ultimately off by a tenth of a grain it is not going to make a bit of difference in the overall scheme of things with a mid size .22 centerfire cartridge. On a small case such as a .22 hornet, it can change things a bit. There's a lot of variables that have an effect on overall accuracy. A consistent powder charge is just part of the equation. It's a perpetual balancing act. You'll find that brass type, primer type, bullet type, seating depth, all contribute. Good luck Jim. Sometimes the rifle itself is the ultimate weak link. Did you say you shoot a Ruger? :laf:
Dave I was actually taking in everything you were saying word by word. Then I got to your last sentence :doh2:
I just look away :huh: :laf:
Hidehunter, thats exactly how I'm doing now. Thats how Rick223 taught me, but I thought to myself, there has got to be a better way.
Just like when he handed me those primer pocket brushes and flash hole do hickey. I thought to myself, is he serious? So I went and bought the RCBS case prepper. :shrug: :laf:
Baxter, thats some good stuff. I never considered the O/H lights and Rick just put florescents over the reload table. Well, I think he paid $4 for his scale too. :innocentwhistle:
Jerry, your kind of confirming what I had a hunch on but wasnt too sure about it. How critical is the actual charge? Is + or - .2 too much? I've been wondering.
Sounds like it's not enough to lose sleep over, but then I would think someone somewhere could make a dang charge thrower that would be accurate enough and only fluctuate that little.
I'm making way more out of this then need be....aint I? :wo:
I really don't think you will notice much, if any, difference between three loads: one -.2, one +.2, and one dead on. If you have a really calm day and a good rest and bags you can give it a try. Probably the "real" test would be to load up about four of each and go to the range. Give them to someone else so you don't know which is over/under, shoot, and then have them tell you what each was. If you haven't done some different powder loads the + or - might actually shoot better.
Jerry
Last year I bought a automatic dispenser made by Salter-Brecknel from Cabala's as they were on sale, I had never hear of that brand but did a little research on them , the company is in Canada and make scales for the post office and for company's that need very accurate scales , the one I bought was about half price of a RCBS or Lyman as it was on sale. The scale has some features that are worthless such as storing load data but you can't put in enough parameters to really be able to recall a specific load but its so easy to just punch in the load you want during the calibration process that the feature is not needed. It also has a feature to automatically dump another load when you replace the pan , I don't use that feature either but just hit the button when I want it to dump the next load, What I like about a Dispenser is if it does run over or under on the desired load just dump it back in the hopper and run it again, it takes a while to learn how to use the Automatic Dispensers but my experience so far has been positive and much faster and more accurate loads. I am not recommending any particular brand or type but if your reloading area is setup right My experience has been that your loads will be more consistence and accurate . Just my humble opinion. cc
I think next time I go over to Rick's I'm going to throw some charges with the RCBS measurer and then check them on the beam.
I'm real curious to see how consistent I can get them by eliminating the digi scale.
I might find out that the measurer is more accurate then I thought.
You'll find some powders meter alot better than others. Ball powders meter pretty nice. Stick powder (depending on the length) act alittle different at times with less consistency. Time to give in Jim and start spending some money. :alscalls: Remember, it's all about saving money. :wink:
Dave
Consistency matters when it comes to metering powder. If you slowly lift the handle to drop the charge and not make any "sudden" moves, keep it that way. If you lightly strike the bottom of the throw, keep it that way. If you are a person who smacks it at the bottom and the top of the throw, keep it that way. The biggest variations will be when you play gorilla hand followed by a light touch.
Like Dave mentioned, ball powders will throw much more consistently than extruded powders.
Jerry
It's funny you say that Jerry.
I found myself giving it a slight back hand style wrap with my finger tips before I drop the lever back down.
I know extruded powders are going to meter a whole lot differently, and I'm currently looking for the bottom of a bottle of H380 before i start all over again with some Varget or 3031, which changes everything :eyebrownod:
That IMR3031 meters all funky out of my RCBS powder measure. I was thinking about a Lee powder measure due to some good reviews I have read.
IMR3031 and Varget meters well in the PPM.
Dont have your cell phone sitting on the reloading bench or any where close as it can cause problems as well as a stryofoam cup(Static electricity, Especially in the winter I have a few dryer sheets close by to help with that), the flourecent lighting is a real killer if hanging too low.
I have a RCBS beam scale that I will check my electronic scales with but other than that I have two low end RCBS electronic scales that work great for me that I use 99% of the time.
WWW
Thats what I'm gonna try Doug.
I havent had a chance to get back at er yet though.
I will after Thursday :jump: :jump:
I picked one of them lee powder measures up at a flea market for 10 bux and it is nice. One question for you guys how close to you run your accuracy loads in powder? Currently i trickle every charge into an 505 beam scale
Quote from: bigben on July 03, 2012, 08:59:52 PM
Currently i trickle every charge into an 505 beam scale
+ 1 That's prezactly what I do.
If I was feeding an AR etc. I'd likely go to some kind of automatic powder charge thrower, but precision accuracy is my prime concern and I don't shoot huge volumes.
I broke down and spent a bunch of money last week. I upgraded ALL my reloading "stuff", Dillon progressiveloader, Dillon tumbler, Dillon digital calipers, shell plates, you name it I bought it. But most of all I'm liking the digital scale. It has a specially designed cover that removes any static electricity thus eliminating inaccurate readings due to static electricity build up. And to top things off I moved my reloading bench from the garage into the house. Really made my wife shout with joy but it was just to hot out there.