Hey Semp, did you ever run any JHP's through your P11 when you had it?
Mines acting like it's not real fond of them.
I loaded a clip up last night, pulled the slide back, let er go and she hung up at the base of the barrel. What do they call that?...loading ramp? :laf:
I locked the slide back and shook out the round. Then hit the slide release to try again, and she hung up again.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/RiverBoy/misc/keltec-jam.jpg)
I went through these motions a dozen more times to see how often it would do this, and it 5 more times out of 12 tries.
The funny thing is, the round is actually shorter in length then a FMJ, which cycles perfectly.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/RiverBoy/misc/jhp-fmj.jpg)
Looking inside the action you can see the "ramp" is much much steeper on the Kel-tec which I'm sure is contributed to it's compactness.
Kel-tec
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/RiverBoy/misc/keltec-action.jpg)
Ruger
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/RiverBoy/misc/rugeraction.jpg)
You might try some Hornady Critical Defense rounds. They are a little more pointed and will probably load better. I had a S&W #69 that did the same thing.
Forgot to mention I took er down to the quarry this morning to see if it reacted the same way under fire.
All ten rounds cycled fine when cycled automatically, but it makes me wonder how much if any distortion the bullet is taking on the way in.
If I carry a gun for personal protection, there has to be NO DOUBT that it will fire if I need it. I'd find a round it will shoot consistantly without jamming.
My thoughts exactly. I said to myself, I'm not about to be in a situation where I have to open this thing up and shake out a jammed round. :nono:
The Ruger likes em just fine. :eyebrownod:
The steeper ramp likes the more rounded bullets better. Just from your pic the Hornady Critical Defense rds appear to have a longer & slightly pointier nose on them. Diane's LC9 loads & cycles those as well as the FMJ's she shoots for target practice.
disclaimer-- i am not Semp & i'm sure the real Semp will agree with that.
You mean Winchester Personal Protection rounds? (right side) :wink:
The FMJ is on the left, that one is longer and rounder from where I'm setting. Or what did you mean?
MY un pictured Hornady rds VS YOUR pictured HP rds. :biggrin:
Yeah but I meant to me the FMJ is longer
It's not the length of the bullett. It's the bluntness of the HP you have pictured. The blunt end is just pushing against the ramp instead of sliding up it like a more pointed bullett would.
If the gun cycled OK under fire, perhaps you were riding the slide when manually trying to chamber a round. :shrug:
That P11 I had ran fine. Some hollowpoints are more aggressive than others and cause cycling problems in some guns. You have to experiment and find the ammo that your gun likes.
Try Corbon's powerball. It will cycle every time. It's a hollow point with a plastic ball in the cavity so that it cycles just like a FMJ round.
I agree with semp, you may have been riding the slide. It may also go away after you break the firearm in a little. BUT you also have a shallower ogave on the Hollow point rounds pictured wich will cause them to move diffrently. My suggestion is shoot some ball ammo "FMJ" through it and see how she acts racking the slide on some Hollow points after a couple hundred rounds.
If that dosnt work bring it on down to the LBL with ya :innocentwhistle: and we will look at it for you and see if anyone has any pointers :shrug:. I will even bring some diffrent types of ammo so we can see how she acts with each :biggrin:.
I was gonna say the same thing weed said & now I don't have to. :biggrin:
Thanks Ed!! :yoyo: :yoyo:
Bring it to the LBL uh :eyebrownod:
I know why it's happening with that round, I wanted to know if it was a defect, or a disability in the gun. If it happened to anyone else.
I wondered what some break in time would do myself. I think I'm going to try them again after I get some more rounds through it.
Never heard of powerballs, but I'll look for some :wink:
You NEED some Zombie rds. :eyebrow:
I've got some of those, but those will be fired from.... :huh: ..well...something different :innocentwhistle:
Ok, we are done with the Winchester Personal Protection rounds in the Kel-tec :whew:
We'll let the Ruger eat those.
I went out little while ago and gave em the HaMeR test. I shot one, let it cycle and then pulled out the cycled round to inspect for damage.
This is what I found.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/RiverBoy/junk/keltec001.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/RiverBoy/junk/close9mmburr.jpg)
The best part is I could hardly get the slide open. It kept catching. I would tug and tug, which means that burr on the casing....well you know what it means :holdon:
I hit my favorite gun shop and asked about ball ammo, they said like this :nono:
So I hit Cabelas and found HaMeR's Hornady Self Defense rounds but no powerballs.
The Kel-tec actually likes the Hornady's. They are quite a bit shorter which I think gives them a little more clearance going up the ramp. They shot real nice.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/RiverBoy/junk/keltec003.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/RiverBoy/junk/keltec004.jpg)
Here's 5 Hornady rounds at 30 feet. Not the worlds tightest group, but it wasnt going to walk away. And actually pretty good for a 3 inch barrel me thinks. :biggrin:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/RiverBoy/junk/keltec002.jpg)
That accuracy at 30 feet is probably more than you would ever need. Probably practice at about 15 feet with a pit-bull running toward you to get a better idea of what would really happen.
Jerry
P.S. When trying this, make sure you have a backup shooter (good shooter) in case you miss the pit-bull. ;yes;
Here is what the Corbon Powrball looks like, Jim.
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p28/aggiecat/General/image002-2.jpg)
Quote from: Hawks Feather on December 30, 2011, 08:51:05 PM
Probably practice at about 15 feet with a pit-bull running toward you to get a better idea of what would really happen.
You got that right Jerry. When face to face with an immediate threat everything changes. I've actually seen videos on how even trained people deteriorate under such circumstances.
Interesting Semp. I seen them listed on CheaperThanDirt but they never really showed the rounds. What is that tip made of?
The tip is a polymer ball covering the hollow point which ensures the round will feed as well as a FMJ. Upon impact the bullet violently expands.
Under the high stress of an immediate life or death situation here is what happens to most people:
-Your hearing will shut down (called auditory exclusion)
-You get tunnel vision
-Your heart rate becomes very rapid coupled with adrenaline dump
-Your fine motor skills go out the window (therefore a 2 pound trigger is not good for concealed carry)
That is why extreme high stress training is so important. When the critical moment occurs, one reverts to trained muscle memory and acts instinctively. Find a good self defense firearms trainer and take some classes. You might be surprised at what you learn.
Quote from: Semp on December 31, 2011, 05:34:34 AM
Find a good self defense firearms trainer and take some classes.
What a bunch of bull. Jim is king of the internet and he once read about how to handle himself in any type of circumstance. He is more qualified than any member of the military special forces - who have spent years in practice and classroom training. Why would you suggest something like this to the Internet Master?
Jerry
P.S. I hope that everyone realizes that my post above can be summed up with the first sentence of my post. The only difficult part of that is finding a qualified person for the instruction. Someone who "read about it on the internet" is NOT who I would want giving my instruction.
The Reality check aritcle by Clint Smith in the Jan/Feb 2012 American handgunner sums it up pretty well. Look for and ask for credentials. If they get upset cause you asked and or wont show you there credentials it is most likley best to move on to another who will.
Just because someone belonged to spec-ops something dosnt mean a whole lot. Were they trigger pullers or cooks? Remember parachute packers, cooks, plane loaders and other support personel all belogned to the same orginazation.
Quote from: FinsnFur on December 31, 2011, 12:03:07 PM
Quote from: Hawks Feather on December 31, 2011, 08:58:12 AM
Jim is king of the internet
King of the BS :biggrin:
I think you should give yourself a 1 day ban for being disrespectful to yourself? :innocentwhistle:
:alscalls: Should I Nasty?
Hey Semp, did you take that picture of the Powrballs? Do you use them?... or have you shot them?
I'm asking cause I just seen a clip on youtube where a guy was trash talking them cause they actually delayed the action in his gun.
He'd cycle it manually several times and the bullets would hang on the feeding ramp for a split second or two until it had enough momentum to fly up into the chamber. It was actually creepy looking.
That made me wonder if those tips were like rubber or like an eraser where they would cause friction when pressed hard against something.
That is a pic I grabbed from the net. But yes, I have used them. If they are "hanging" on some dude's feeding ramp, well, there is something wrong with his gun, the feeding ramp, or his magazine. :laf:
And at 1,475 fps there ain't, I say, there ain't gonna be much friction. :eyebrownod: Those are +P rounds pahdna'.
If your gun won't feed Powrball ammo, then it most likely won't feed fmj either. Which means you should get rid of the gun. Some people say the bullet is too light, too fast, not deep penetrating, yada, yada, yada. I sure as L would not want to be shot with one of them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFYFMkbGzwQ
Quote from: Semp on December 31, 2011, 10:19:55 PM
And at 1,475 fps there ain't, I say, there ain't gonna be much friction.
No no, I meant friction against the feeding ramp. And I had wondered if thats what they were hanging on the guy. His slide would slowly creep ahead and then all of a sudden it would slam shut.
But yeah I hear ya, on having his gun looked at. I mean it's not like there's hundred of people whining about feed problems with the stuff.
Very interesting video by the way.
Quote from: FinsnFur on December 31, 2011, 10:52:13 PM
Quote from: Semp on December 31, 2011, 10:19:55 PM
And at 1,475 fps there ain't, I say, there ain't gonna be much friction.
No no, I meant friction against the feeding ramp. And I had wondered if thats what they were hanging on the guy. His slide would slowly creep ahead and then all of a sudden it would slam shut.
But yeah I hear ya, on having his gun looked at. I mean it's not like there's hundred of people whining about feed problems with the stuff.
Very interesting video by the way.
Gotcha. :wink: Yeah, if the guy's gun is having difficulty feeding Powrball then there is definitely a problem with the gun. Reliable feeding is one of the reasons Corbon developed Powrball in the first place.
OK, enough of this stuff about Powrball ammo. Your P11 should be able to feed and shoot a variety of ammo. And there are good hollow point choices out there that are way less expensive than Powrball.
For a relatively inexpensive round, try Remington Golden Sabre. Also, one of the best you can buy is Federal Hydra Shok ammo.
Yeah, I'm actually in the process of trying several types.
I gotta say...I might have to get another one. This thing is so much fun to shoot. It makes my P89 seem lethargic.
I gotta say, I'm not real fond of this :huh:
What happens on a resize stroke when your working with this?
looks like ejection dings. resizing should take care of the dings. What type dies ya using?
Who reloads 9mm? :confused:
depends on the volume ya shoot. If Jim is wanting to reload and all hes got are the little P11 and a P89. He is gona have to spend a lot of time at the range before it becomes feasable or cost effective to reload 9's.
BUT my answer stands true. resizing should take care of the dings with no problem.
Actually Rick223 and I both are contemplating this. He's got a couple 9's, I have a couple, and we've been hashing over reloading a bunch of them. If nothing else to be prepared when the zombies come through town. :iroll:
He already reloads, so I figured if I helped him out with set up costs by picking up the dies and some brass, or powder, we could stock up our stock. :eyebrow:
Were still throwing costs, but I'm wondering what these dents would do after being resized, or if anyones stroked out dents like that.
They will stroke out. But if your gona relolad 9's ya really need a dillon automatic press and do thousands of them.
I've reloaded 45acp but not 9mm. Like Slag said one needs to shoot a lot to make that pay and a high volume press comes in handy.
I usually just buy a 1,000 rounds at a time of 115gr 9mm and don't save the brass.
Yeah, Rick talked about pouring our own lead, but we'll see what happens :shrug:
How's the Kel-tec doing now Jim? Did you get the feed problem worked out? Did you settle on a holster?
I'm loving this thing Ed. I'm going to burn the barrel off it if I dont put it away once in a while. I like shooting this better then my P89.
I stopped putting the Winchester Personal Protection rounds in it and the feed problems stopped. It'll digest other hollows, it just dont like those.
It's been recommended that I have the feeding ramp buffed, which I'm gonna do also.
One of my daughters picked me up an Uncle Mikes ISW holster and I really like it. The gun is small enough I can, sit bend over, or tie my shoes comfortably. I'm not sure what I'll do in the summer yet.
(http://i44.tinypic.com/9quuc4.jpg)
Jim,
I am a Kel-Tec fan as well. I have had a P-11 since they came out several years ago. The P-11 is my primary carry gun. I can suggest several things to enhance your pistol. First are the pinkie finger extensions for the magazines. I have four magazines for my gun and they all have the pinkie extensions. This allows you to get a more comfortable three finger grip on the gun. They do not affect concealability much and really help with comfort when shooting. They can be ordered from Kel-Tec. Another item that can be added to the grip to enhance comfort is a Hogue Handall slip on grip. It has a finger groove and palm swell and is a soft comfortable rubber that absorbs some recoil. I had to trim mine a little and used some super glue to make sure it didn't move around. I really like it. Kel-Tec also has a trigger shoe that makes the trigger a little wider and helps make the trigger pull seem a little lighter because your finger pressure is spread out over a larger area on the trigger. The tigger shoe is still less wide than the tigger gaurd so it is completely safe. Finally there is the belt clip that mounts on the right side of the gun. This clip does away with the need for a holster. I tuck the pistol under my jeans and place the clip over the top edge of the jeans right at the 3:00 o-clock belt loop and under the belt. When I leave the house I don't have to fool with a holster, I just tuck the pistol in my waistband and the belt clip keeps it in place.
There are lots of other things you can do to enhance the P-11. Check out ktog.org (Kel-Tec Owners Group) for further suggestions. The ktog "fluff & buff" explains how to polish the feed ramp as you mentioned in your post. I'm having problems posting pictures. I will try to get some posted later. I really like my P-11 as a carry gun!!
Jim
Jim,
Here are the pictures . . .
The magazine pinkie extension
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee269/Frog6man/keltec/DSCN4689.jpg)
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee269/Frog6man/keltec/DSCN4691.jpg)
The Hogue Handall grip wrap
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee269/Frog6man/keltec/DSCN4692.jpg)
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee269/Frog6man/keltec/DSCN4693.jpg)
The belt clip
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee269/Frog6man/keltec/DSCN4695.jpg)
The trigger shoe
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee269/Frog6man/keltec/DSCN4697.jpg)
And the belt clip in use
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee269/Frog6man/keltec/DSCN4701.jpg)
Without the belt
(http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee269/Frog6man/keltec/DSCN4706.jpg)
The website for ktog is thektog.org.
Of course you can see that I have devoted years of training and exercise to develop my "concealment girth"!?!?
Hope this helps!
Jim
GEEZZZZ Frogman. I thought I needed to back away from the table. :eyebrownod: Looks like you've been visiting that restaraunt we went to on a regular basis. :biggrin:
Glad to hear you got the bugs worked out Jim. I just thought we needed an update.
I did see those extensions Jim, and I've been considering one.
Looks like he's got all toys available on his, dont it Ed? :congrats:
Looks pretty slick !