Incident at the EXPO

[Rprince]

Brent,
I think it shows that no matter where you hunt you have to know the area & at least half-way understand the coyotes to be sucessfull.
If you go back & need someone to help split the cost, give me a yell, I'd like to see what a TN boy can do out there


Randy

[HaMeR]

Jay & Brent

Jay-- I'm wondering about your thoughts on the coyote population being much larger out west then here in the east. BTW I'm in east central Ohio. From talking to farmers & friends that live out of town it seems our population is rather high & growing at a purdy good rate. Do you think it's possible that we can have a lot more coyotes over  here than most folks think? We just can't see em as easily with all the valleys,draws,timber,brush around here.

Brent-- You've hunted both. What is your take on what I'm asking.

Not meant to start any crap. I just think we have more coyotes than we know of.

Anybody else can weigh in on this peacefully too if they like.

[Rprince]

Hamer,
I tried to start a thread on that subject a day or 2 ago, so far there have been no replies.

Here's some info that was recently published for TN.
http://www.finsandfur.net/forums/index.php?topic=6485.0

[Uncle Jay]

HaMer,
First off anything I say would be speculation since I am unfamiliar with the conditions in your area. 
Game and Fish agencies should be able to provide a guestimate of the number of breeding pairs as well as trapper reports.
I would venture to say that there are not nearly as many die-hard coyote hunters there as there are out west either.

Every year out here guys will buy predator calls and callers in the hundreds thinking that they will just go hunt coyotes since they didn't get drawn for any big game permits.  The thinking is that they will get their hunting fix taken care of until the next draw season.  They quickly learn that calling coyotes isn't as easy as buying a 12 dollar call or 300 dollar electronic.  Very few of the new crop of coyote hunters ever spend the effort to go out more than once or twice.  Their new purchases end up in a shoebox in a closet.  I'm sure it's the same where you are at.  The ones that stick around to call are a percentage of those that were lucky enough to have called one in and experience the thrill of having one come running at them.

Private land and hunting opportunity is a big hinderance in your areas I'm sure.  Back in the 70's in OK it wasn't a problem for a kid with a 22 or shotgun.  We never asked for permission to hunt.  We just did it. If any asked where we got our coyote, turkey or deer we'd tell the truth everytime.  "Over behind Rollins place" and the fellow listening would always say... "Yeah.  I seen some back there awhile back. You boys be careful."

As for coyote numbers?  I'm pretty sure it's all reletive on a percentage basis everywhere.  We have large numbers of coyotes out west and the numbers are much greater than we think because we NEVER SEE every one we call in as I'm sure you don't.  If I were to guess, I'd say that for every coyote you see, there are 2 you don't see.  But that's all speculation on my part.  Rich Higgins would be a better source of statistical data.  I'm sure he's discussed this with the likes of Boddicker, Sceery ond other well known coyote men.  I'm sure Gerald Stewart would have invaluable information as well. Dan Thompson might, but I'm not sure.

I'm not much help on this subject but I hope others will weigh in.  That coyote we saw in Kansas City was carrying a cardboard sign when we first spotted him.  It read "Send me back to Ohio.  This place sucks!"

[alscalls]

We have had nights where every where we would go you could hear a bunch of em howling and I know the numbers are high but to give a coyote per acre? I would have no Idea
Even the trappers around here that do well on coyotes say it is damn hard work to get them. one guy I know got 29 yotes this past season and he was only running like 20 sets. and he only trapped 2 1/2 months on 300 acres:shrug:
I know they are there I scout a lot and I have pics of thier tracks and scat. I was lucky enough to speak with Randy Anderson on the phone a couple of times a few years ago and he said to me and I quote "What you guys are doing there is too hard"
I had asked him to come and hunt he said nothing personal it is just not worth the effort per coyote.
I think this area is tough and it helps me be the best woodsman I can be. Some day I will try those western dogs and if they are easy I just might stay for a while.

[Silencer]

think it's possible that we can have a lot more coyotes over  here than most folks think?

I totally believe thats the way it is around here.  A good friend of mine traps, and the same spots we both call and not see a coyote he catches them trapping.  The sign is all there, they very seldom present themselves in the open while calling IMO.

edit to add:  The houndsman also get pretty good numbers, usually somewheres between 30-50 coyote pending on the year.

[keekee]

I think we have allot more coyotes than what people think as well. Being in the nuisance work I get a ton of calls on coyotes in the city limits and also on farms (sheep and goat) I never new we had that much trouble around the area. Just got a call today from a farmer on coyotes.

I don't think our population is close to what they have out west in good areas. But I also believe we call allot more coyotes than we ever see for sure here in the east. Coyote populations out west are good in some areas and other areas suck, just depends on allot of things. The old theory that there is one behind every bush or you just walk out set down any were and call one just is not true. Maybe in some areas out west but no all by no means.

Someone posted about the trappers. Thats a real good way to gauge your population. I use my trapping logs allot to pick calling areas. I can call one area and not do nothing, set traps in there and double up. But traps work 24 hr, 7 days a week. As to were calling you maybe calling when they are not even in the area.

And we are also dealing with new hunters here in the east. Calling pressure is going up and more callers in the woods. And we still have the guys that shoot every coyote the see in site! I got some areas if you stop the truck, they will run before you roll to a stop! Other areas they will just Stand there and look then walk off or go back to what they are doing.

All and all. Here in my area we don't come close to the numbers they have out west. But thats here, other areas maybe allot better and more populated depending on what part of the east your in.

Several things play into all this. Numbers, terrain, pressure, and allot of other variables. Land to call is a big one here in the east. Its not like that in AZ were we hunted. I maybe able to hunt 50 acers in a coyotes territory here and thats it due to small farms out in AZ odds are I can move down the road and call again. I just cant do that here.

But from what I have seen over the years the population here in my area is doing very well, and gets better every year. I think it will get better and better as time goes on!

Brent

[HaMeR]

Thanks to all who replied. A lot of info there to re-read. 

[golfertrout]

Brent I agree with you there are several dogs in this area, but they get alot of pressure put on them. I hunted one spot I thought was a good spot only to find out one of my buddies that I met later was hunting in the same area. Coyotes reproduce every year and the numbers are getting better and better every year. You might go out and call one area only to find out that Joe Smoe had just been there earlier that day. But like you said the numbers are getting better for the hunters.

[HaMeR]

Add in what Jay said about the new guys that think it's easy & quits after a few times of not playing the wind or approaching incorrect & that will make it harder too. Personally I have no idea how many others are calling the same ground I do. I do know the amish run them with dogs on one part of a large farm I hunt. I think if you're in an area like that the coyotes tend to move more frequently than they would otherwise. JMO