IPCSCI coyote club

[slagmaker]

All of this makes me wish even harder that I could afford a membership.

[Gary in CA]

Let me just say hello and add a bit of information.  Hello.

If you've spent the last dozen years complaining about the ph community's lack of representation in 2A and hunting advocacy groups, let's do something about it.  The first day I started on this project, I was energized. The second morning I woke up and said,"What the hell have I gotten myself into?"

It was a long process to get to the new Predator Callers Chapter of SCI.  And it's going to take a few years - and a lot of work by a lot of folks - to make it work.  I am a very temporary steward of parts of the fledgling organization.  Soon enough there will be an elected board, elected officers, and I will just be another member, another gear in the machine.  I hope.  If i'm lucky, I'll work myself out of this job in short order and just be a committee worker bee.

Richard gave you the outline of SCI's organization and benefits.  Getting hooked up with SCI, who many say is #1 in hunting, seems natural.  They can give the ph community a national voice on legislation and regulations that effect both predator hunting and land access.  And we don't have to reinvent anything.  The  incorporation, finance, legal contacts, DC lobbyists, and local, regional, and national organization are SCI's and are already in place.  

Rich gave you an idea of the other hunters who also think this is a great idea.  It seems like everyone who hears about recognizes the opportunity and potential it offers.  No one has come up with a good reason not to join, except money.  If $75 seems like a lot to you, it probably is.

Predator hunters need a voice.  Safari Club has one.  What we don't have is a voice within Safari Club.  How do we get there?

Part of the answer is membership.  The Chapter needs members.  You are invited to join.

Membership is not free.  But it's infinitely cheaper to organize the ph community this way than for any other group to do it on their own.  National membership at SCI is $55 per year or $150 for three years.  Chapter annual dues average $20 across the club - so I temporarily set them at $20.  So $55 national + $20 chapter add up to $75 each year.  The chapter also pays one-third of the net of an annual fundraiser or $2000 to headquarters.  That's the price of organizing under SCI's big tent.  If the ph community gets a national voice, it's cheap.  How do we get noticed?

Part of that answer is good works.  There is a lot of energy without an outlet, so the wounded warrior projects are a natural partnership.  Coyote calling is perfect for bringing game to the hunter without much of a budget, limited licensing requirements, and no seasons, limits, lotteries, or zones.  It doesn't interfere with your own hunting either.  It isn't a 12-pointer.  It's a coyote.  SCI Foundation touts 700 disabled hunters being brought to the game.  IPC can bring game to the hunter and surpass SCI's current totals in the first 3-5 years if we work at it.  So that gets us noticed.  What else can we do?

Many hunters within SCI are awards-driven.  They want the club's awards.  And IPC is going to offer awards for some unique hunts.  Like called lions, bears, leopards, hyenas and other large dangerous predators.  We expect some of SCI's prominent hunters to join the chapter once we've been noticed.  Hunters are also social.  And since IPC is a national organization, our members should plan on also joining a local chapter of SCI.  Expect to make new friends, find new hunting opportunities, and explore other outlets for your energy.

SCI requires me to set up an initial organization, pencil in some names, and set fees.  In a few months, after the National Membership Committee of SCI considers our chapter application at the May board meeting in DC, the new board will revisit all issues, missions, governance, and finance.  Some of the highlights of the chapter's planned bylaws include transparent finances, elected governance, and majority recalls.

The things we aren't.  

• IPCSCI isn't going to compete with other organizations.  We might have a hunt to go with an annual board meeting, but we won't be putting on any hunting competitions.  
• IPCSCI isn't going to compete with other bulletin boards.  We have one of our own for organizing and recruiting new members and will probably also use the Internet for meetings and business, but we won't be opening anything like FNF for public hunting discussions.
• IPCSCI isn't going to compete with local SCI chapters.  We urge our members to link up with a local chapter in their own neighborhood to meet and network with other hunters there.

If you have questions, call me.  I'm in the book in Acton CA.

Gary Clevenger

[bigben]

so I got one question.  is this IPCSCI going to come lobby for laws in my home state or is it mainly for national laws?

[Bopeye]

so I got one question.  is this IPCSCI going to come lobby for laws in my home state or is it mainly for national laws?

The way I understand it Ben, they don't really fight for law changes as much as they fight to protect hunting as a whole.

"SCI provides strong support for grassroots chapters who work at the state and local level to preserve hunting freedom."

[bigben]

I remember at one time someone said that all we needed was the NRA to protect our rights for guns and didn't need protection for coyote hunting.  hmm.  I guess minds do change. 

[CCP]

Ben I myself never would have imagined needing a coyote organization in years past. After seeing what has happened over the past several years it has grown so much with so many new experts trying to cash in and promote coyote hunting for fame and money.

These small groups and there followers are trying to push there agendas through without knowing or caring what the other coyote hunters want or need. A large group representing a much larger base of coyote hunters and the pros and cons of changing something is in order.

An example would be if I created a coyote club in Northeast AL with a couple hundred guys and we thought of something to change in the states law would it be fair or right for us to try and make change without some input from the other 10 or 20 thousand coyote hunters in the rest of the state?

A large group with the backing of a larger group would be able to poll coyote hunters from all across the state and be able to see all sides of a debate and come to a better conclusion to help all coyote hunters.As it is now we have small clubs trying to make change that will effect all coyote hunters.

My biggest concern now is the coyote hunting world is headed in the direction of  deer hunting.

From what I see contest club hunters are less than 1% of actual coyote hunters and coyote hunters that come on the  internet make up less than 20% of coyote hunters in the U.S.

It seems this 21% of coyote hunters are trying to make up the rules or promote without knowing what the other 80% want. Another good example is when I do shows here in the Southeast If I talk to 300 coyote hunters only 1 in 75 ( or less) seem to use the internet when ask. Alot of these guys are die hard coyote hunters.

[Bopeye]

My mind has finally found an organization that I can trust. Not self appointed dicatators who take the money and give no account on where it's spent. There are no Contest hunts which I believe are very detrimental to the future of coyote hunting. They do not lobby to change the bills on the books which I also believe will be detrimental to the future of coyote hunting and so on.
If things keep going as they have been in the last few years, coyote hunting will go the way of deer hunting and bass fishing. It will all be about money and only the boys with cash will be able to play. Contests, leases, big game stamps, more regulations, restricted seasons, etc.
I like my laws like they are. They are a varmint that I can hunt year round if I choose. Let the different wildlife agencies and land owners any different and we will start paying a whole lot to play, plus only certain times of year, on and on.

Safari Club is to hunting what the NRA is to guns. They hold ground and launch counter offences when needed.

[Gary in CA]

so I got one question.  is this IPCSCI going to come lobby for laws in my home state or is it mainly for national laws?

Ben,
It just isn't possible to accurately answer your question.  No one can say for certain what this new group within the bigger organization of SCI will do in the future.  That will be up to the new membership, board, and officers.

Right now, take a good look at the problem.  Predator hunters are severely under-represented in both the 2A and hunting rights organizations.  That's a fact.  As RB points out, small groups of a couple of hundred regional hunters can't accurately represent a national cross-section of the ph community, nor will they ever gain enough traction to effect legislative or regulatory policies at any regional, national, or international level, to any substantial degree.  

In a recent reminder of this lack of representation here in CA, the CBD, a particularly nasty group set up solely to sue anyone, anywhere and to stop all reasonable human access to public and private land, for recreation, development, or agriculture, recently attacked predator hunters using some trumped up science, and demanded that Fish & Game end coyote hunting on 1.4 million acres of desert.  In response to their petition, there were almost no resources available for help, because there is no single group dedicated to the problems of predator hunters. Without a quickly cobbled together letter writing campaign by a handful of dedicated predator hunters to stop the issue at Fish & Game's initial hearings, their petition could have ended coyote hunting on a large swath of desert forever.  It may still. That needs to change.  Coyote shooters need representation.

As JH says, if you can't trust yourself, who can you trust?  Do you belong to the NRA?  Or do you just trust them to do whatever is in a gun owner's best interest.  Do you belong to SCI?  Or do you just trust them to do whatever is in a predator hunter's best interest?  That's quite a leap.  As long as groups like the CBD are left largely unopposed, predator hunting anywhere remains at risk.

The job right now is very temporary and very narrow in scope.  It is to organize a group with fair governance and transparent finances, one that I would want to be a member.  Then, it is to recruit as many members as possible, from all over the world, anyone who hunts predators with a call.  Only then, hopefully, when a board and officers are elected, THEY will be listening to all the members, make good decisions on which issues and missions deserve their attention, and at some time in the near future, have the resources to do something about it.  Then, when any problem arises, whether it's confined to a local area or on a national scale, you will have a place to turn.

Right now, predator hunters have no voice at all.  It is my hope that they will have a small voice within the much larger and more influential circle of SCI in the future.  

Gary

[slagmaker]

This all sounds great. It does it truley does. I am glad that an orginization like SCI is finally taking an intrest in perdator calling/hunting.


BUT I still have no money to join such an orginization and becasue of that I have no voice. Go figure, Even with all that SCI can do for hunitng and hunters it still boils down to the fact it takes money for a man to have a voice.

I wish the IPCSCI and the SCI all the luck in the world. But untill I get my financial status in better states I cant even say on there forum Good going, I cant even pat them on the back and say thanks cause I dont have the money to allow me to say thanks.

[bigben]

trust me I am all for predator hunters having a voice on any level.  I do believe it is needed.  but some, only a few months ago at times claimed that coyote hunting did not need protected.  now all of a sudden it does.  I have been for any type of organization that stands up and fights for the rights of predator hunting and can keep the betterment of the sport of predator calling in their mind.  But there has been three organizations now that have popped up to my knowledge that claim that they will stand up and have a voice for predator hunting.  The npha, the APF and now the IPCSCI.  good luck with the task of fighting antis and anti hunting legislation on a national level.  your gonna need it.   

[slagmaker]

If I had the money to donate so that I could be a member of the IPCSCI, I sure as heck would. Of the organizations that you mentioned the SCI is the only one that puts there books right out there in the open for any and all to see. They have a very well defined agenda and it is spelled out in clear terms how they plan to meat that agenda. The officers are not in power for life and if someone in power falls into a questionable light they have a set of rules to deal with such a scenario. I would think that such an organization would take steps to insure that any new chapters would adhere to the same standards.

Does predator hunting need protecting? Well it would depend on your particular situation. Here in Indiana we have a season for taking of fur but its pretty much open season on private land with permission. Some states have no night hunting "Ky,for example" If the hunters in that state would like to have that reg changed they would have a organization that could help change that. The single man can not change government, but a single voice heard in the correct time and place can move a mountain. The SCI gets the voices where they need to be heard. Be it needing to be heard on state or federal levels.

Now I have a question for the SCI rep's we have here. Do you recite the Pledge of allegiance at the beginning of your meetings?

[FinsnFur]

Now I have a question for the SCI rep's we have here. Do you recite the Pledge of allegiance at the beginning of your meetings?

I do that here after typing any post, right before I click the submit button.

[slagmaker]

I belive the SCI has actuall face to face meetings from time to time.


Nothign wrong with a group of people in a chat room talking busiiness but sometimes a face to face is called for.

You have a face to face and your are gona display a flag, you say the pledge, period.

[Bopeye]

Safari Club International did not "just pop up". It's been around for a long time with deep pockets. All that is happening is it's getting another chapter. That's not luck at all.
Coyote hunting does need protected as does any hunting. It just doesn't need changed like everyone else was advocating. IMHO, we don't need to draw the attention of the state to us. That just causes more restrictions any time the government starts taking more part in something.
I say let coyote hunters police their own ranks, but by all means we have to protect our hunting rights.
I personally am against night hunting in my area and there are several reasons for it.
I personally against seasons for coyote hunting.
I am personally against bag limits.
I would like to see some of the caliber restrictions relaxed, but not enough to make much of a stink.
Now remember, I'm just talking about my area.

I know that eventually we will have to lease land to coyote hunt, there will be two month seasons unless you buy a $300 ADC tag, or they will allow night hunting and every poacher around will claim he is calling coyotes and not poaching deer, so then we will have to buy $50 tags to night hunt and the list goes on.
I will fight that as hard as I can though, for as long as I can. Period.

[CCP]

but some, only a few months ago at times claimed that coyote hunting did not need protected.  now all of a sudden it does.

Ben I hear you loud and clear. I was against all this joining of hands and singing along. I liked most of the hunting laws in my own state. Seen no reason for anything to change.


So what changed?????

But there has been three organizations now that have popped up to my knowledge that claim that they will stand up and have a voice for predator hunting.

Organizations popping up at every turn in the last few months. This is what has changed! They all seem to say the same thing and have self appointed leaders and no accountability. There main goal/agenda only seems to be geared toward contest. 

looking at these org's popping up made me have to take another look at my stance on coyote Organizations. If these org's are going to be speaking for predator hunters around the world they need to have input from around the world.So looking at them from that point of view I felt there should be some form of accountability.

SCI already has a long tract record of accountability and a record of what they have already accomplished. So if I need to support a group/org Ii will put my efforts toward a group with an  elected board and  strict term limits. accountability of money and functions in the day to day business. One that has the eyes of a larger proven group on them.



Slag I hear you on the money things are not good here also. Until things get better and if you decide to become a member your voice will still be heard. From the people that are already associated with this group they look at all things predator hunting including what non members are wanting. It is for the benefit of all predator hunters like SCI they represent hunting not just members hunting.

I guess another reason would be instead of me disagreeing with the direction of these other groups why not be apart of one that is already out there with a proven tract record and will have the means and channels setup to actually get something done when the time arises.If members of small local clubs that also have members that are IPCSCI members there problems could be helped  with on a national level.

[bigben]

 

[slagmaker]

Hay at least SCI can say they have a lobbyist in congress .

NPHA can say,......... we got hats .

[vvarmitr]

but some, only a few months ago at times claimed that coyote hunting did not need protected.  now all of a sudden it does.

Ben I hear you loud and clear. I was against all this joining of hands and singing along. I liked most of the hunting laws in my own state. Seen no reason for anything to change.


So what changed?????

But there has been three organizations now that have popped up to my knowledge that claim that they will stand up and have a voice for predator hunting.

Organizations popping up at every turn in the last few months. This is what has changed! They all seem to say the same thing and have self appointed leaders and no accountability. There main goal/agenda only seems to be geared toward contest. 

looking at these org's popping up made me have to take another look at my stance on coyote Organizations. If these org's are going to be speaking for predator hunters around the world they need to have input from around the world.So looking at them from that point of view I felt there should be some form of accountability.

SCI already has a long tract record of accountability and a record of what they have already accomplished. So if I need to support a group/org Ii will put my efforts toward a group with an  elected board and  strict term limits. accountability of money and functions in the day to day business. One that has the eyes of a larger proven group on them.



Slag I hear you on the money things are not good here also. Until things get better and if you decide to become a member your voice will still be heard. From the people that are already associated with this group they look at all things predator hunting including what non members are wanting. It is for the benefit of all predator hunters like SCI they represent hunting not just members hunting.

I guess another reason would be instead of me disagreeing with the direction of these other groups why not be apart of one that is already out there with a proven tract record and will have the means and channels setup to actually get something done when the time arises.If members of small local clubs that also have members that are IPCSCI members there problems could be helped  with on a national level.
[/size]

Amen Rich!

I've wanted to join the SCI for some time, however, my passion/ministry if you will, is Varmint hunting.  I'm really not much into big game hunting.   Don't take it that I'm against big game hunting!     
Anyhoo, this gives me the avenue to one great org'  out there for hunters.
I'm excited I'm looking forward to joining. 


BTW Do they have a family membership? 
Me & brother Slag want to join. 

[alscalls]

In my mind..... The fact of the matter is......NPHA  and groups like them are in it for the $$$ (personal Gain) and are run by folks that have shown I'll will, toward the predator hunters that are in it for the passion of just hunting.
And they will eventually show their true colors by hurting the predator hunting community.

I don't see that with SCI they seem to be trying to keep away from fighting amongst ourselves and band together to protect what we already have. And I for one am all for it.
The reason for the move as I see it? .......... To try and protect all of us, from groups that will ultimately Destroy our right to hunt predators, by turning it into....... (The coyote belongs to the Govt. until you pay for it) Kind of thing.
As well as.....Having the funds and the numbers to fight the lobbyists.
All you need to do to see it happening is look at history...... and both sides of it.   M2C

I am with ya Slag, in that I can not afford it right now......
But we always have a voice to be heard, letters to be written and I would hunt with ya anytime....

[nor-cal yote]

I agree with you Al, in CA wild pig tags used to be 9.00 dollars for five tags, then they jumped 19.00 for one.