Opinions on firearms

[clubmkred]

I know that this is one of those topics that can spark an all out debate. I am not trying to stir the pot, but I am looking for the good, the bad, and the ugly of my situation.

Living in one of "those" restricted counties in PA, I am limited to the use of only rim fire or shotgun for hunting. I am hunting mostly on about 75 acres of private property (my wife's parents), and occasionally go beyond into adjoining property which I have permission.

Now this has sparked quite a bit of debate among my friends who say screw the game laws and use an AR-15, 22-250, etc. I don't want to do that. I could, but I would like to take my first coyote legally. I don't want someone to question where I was hunting and with what firearm. When (only a matter of time), I take my first coyote, I want to be able to show it off.

I figure that most of my shots will be within 50-75 yards. But there are going to be times that it could easily exceed 100-300 yards. The latter, I would not even waste my time or ammo.

So, I have experimented with my Mossberg 535 AT with the Dead Coyote choke tube. First, I tried the Hevi-shot. It did not pattern as well as I thought it would. I tried the Federal #4 buckshot. That did so much better. But after watching the Eastern Coyotes video, I am a little hesitant to take the buckshot back into the woods. It seemed as if there were a lot of misses or not enough knockdown power. So, that leaves me with a .17 HMR, .22 WMR, or rifled slugs…

After watching the video, I was greatly impressed with the coyote’s reluctance to die. For some time, I was thinking a .223 was not big enough (LOL). Anybody using any of the above? I think that if I hit a coyote with a slug, he will not get up. But, I have to hit him with one… accuracy becomes an issue.

Thoughts, experiences?

[KySongDog]

You asked for an opinion so...........

rim fire = .22WMR  winchester 40 grain JHP

12 ga. Shotgun = #4 Buck  (not #4 birdshot! )  or Remington HD BB's.  If we could use #4 Buck in KY that is what I would use.   

Centerfire is illegal in PA so don't even think about it.       Best to follow the rules.   

Good hunting.

[pitw]

  Any muzzle loaders allowed  .   

[clubmkred]

Centerfire is illegal in PA so don't even think about it.       Best to follow the rules.

Not illegal, only certain counties have centerfire restrictions.

But I agree, I want to follow the rules. If I do get a yote,  at least I can say it was done a little bit harder.

Muzzleloader, I don't know? I will have to break out the game commission booklet. 

[Hawks Feather]

Since Ohio doesn't have that restriction I don't know which rimfire .22 or .17 would work better.  My guess would be that it would be shot placement that would count the most.  One in the head vs. one in the tail - the head will usually win.  Glen has been enjoying his .17 on groundhogs and may have had prior experience with the .22 mag and be able to give you a comparison.

Unlike PA, Ohio does not allow rifles for deer so there are many that use rifled slugs in their shotguns.  It kind of depends on the barrel and the brand of slugs, but I have a cousin that can keep a 2 inch group at 100 yards with sabot slugs in his shotgun.  They would definitely do a number on a coyote if hit in the head or body.  I have used BB and Buckshot on fox, but they seem to have a thinner skin and are not as resilient as coyote.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help, but it is a start.

Jerry

[clubmkred]

Thanks for the replies. I really like the .17, but probably not for yotes. I am leaning towards a .22 mag. Heavier bullet, better knock down power. With recent advances in ammo, seems like they are becoming more accurate. Be able to have a decent grouping at 100 yards.

I am still considering 12 ga. slugs. There is just something about annihilating a target that is appealing.  Just not sure if I can find ammo that matches my gun / barrel to my liking.

I read the caliber selecion thread and was hesistant to make this post. But, what I am looking for is pros and cons of the three choices I have (really 4 choices if you count shotgun with slug or shotgun with buckshot). I don't want to overthink this, but nor do i want to make an uninformed choice.

[slagmaker]

Semp gave you basically the same answer I would give ya.

I use the Remington premier V-max 32gr or the Remington 40gr PSP in my Marlin and either group well. I have used this on feral dogs out to 75 yards and it has stoped them nicley when I did my part.

For the shotgun #4 buck shot or BB if thats what yoru limited to.

[HaMeR]

I do like the 17HMR a whole bunch but now that I've got a 22WMR I would use the same load Semp proposed. That 40gr JHP is cranking right along & will be way more forgiving in the wooded areas if you hit a briar or maybe some leaves. I would only use the 17HMR with the 20gr XTP's IF I were shooting open areas. If I were to shotgun them I think the #4 Buck would be the way to go. A lot of pellets that carry weight for penetration.

Do check your game laws on the slugs. We can only use them here in Ohio during a deer shotgun season. Any other time of the year they are illegal. Pa could/might be different.

JMHO

[KySongDog]

Centerfire is illegal in PA so don't even think about it.       Best to follow the rules.

Not illegal, only certain counties have centerfire restrictions.

Sorry about that.  I was thinking of my AR.  Semi-auto's are illegal for hunting I think.   Manually operated guns are OK. 

[HuntnCarve]

Semp gave you excellent advice for the area that you are hunting.  That No.4 Buck shoot is wicked at woodland ranges.  And the .22 Mag with the 40grain Win JHP's is just as effective, provided you do your part, and place it in a vital area.  Forget the long shots.  The idea is to call them into range.

[KillerCaller!]

Shotgun!!!  It is by far the most effective weapon in the woods. Hevi Shot Dead Coyote, all you need are 4 of the 50 T shot to hit it out at 50 yards and they are going to stay down. (most of the time :))

[clubmkred]

Shotgun!!!  It is by far the most effective weapon in the woods. Hevi Shot Dead Coyote, all you need are 4 of the 50 T shot to hit it out at 50 yards and they are going to stay down. (most of the time :))

That's currently what I am toting into the woods. Though some of my stands are on the edge of an open field where I may (more than likely) need something longer, that was the reason for the inquiry into something like a .22 or .17. 

I am sorta frustrated with the .17 vs .22 debate that I probably will not entertain either. Both have pros and cons, but neither is an ideal yote gun. In reality, a centerfire cartridge would be ideal, but can't use them where I live.

I am going to sight in some slugs, see how well those work in my gun. I did pattern the Hevi-shot Dead Coyote (with their Dead Coyote choke tube), and it did not perform well with my Mossberg 535. I switched to the Federal #4 buckshot and that seems to put more pellets to the kill zone.

[vvarmitr]

I wouldn't hunt coyotes w/ a 22mag or a 17HMR on purpose. 
Now if I was out g'hoggen & a coyote showed up; that's a different story. 

Don't feel undergunned if you have only a shotgun. The thing is make your sets so they can come w/in shotgun range.

I like to stand when using a shotgun. They're made to shoot off hand. Plus you have better visibility & more mobility than when you're sitting on the ground. 

[Rich]

I can't seem to find the nominal I.D. of the barrel on a Mossberg 535. With that information, I could be of a little more help. A 12 gauge shotgun with screw-in choke tubes can be tuned  for sure kill range of 50 yards on coyotes with #4 BUCK or Dead Coyote T's. My Browning BPS takes standard Winchoke tubes, and loves the .680 Turkey choke from Kicks Industries. My Beretta Extrema2 loves the same choke. The Kicks BUCKICKER X-full is another good choice. No matter which tube you choose, be sure to check point of impact and pattern density on large sheet of cardboard before going hunting. If you setup closer to the cover, you will do well with the 12 gauge.

[Jeb]

"The Kicks BUCKICKER X-full is another good choice."

I agree here, my oldest son has killed two at over 50 yards using a BuckKicker choke designed for buckshot !!
                                           Jeb

[Jimmie in Ky]

Some areas here have hte same restrictions. I pack my shotgun and copperplated bb most of the time. In hte areas we have to hunt coyotes, this is sufficient 90% of the time. setup choice will make the diference you need. Check the cover and aproaches to each one with the limitations of hte shotgun in mind before you start calling. By looking around a bit, you just might find the better spot to prop your butt. Jimmie

[trky]

Dont ever choke buckshot!!  Shoot improved cyl. or mod. only. The restriction will greatly decrease your accuracey and not only that, you will blow your choke tube!!   Kill a lot of yotes here in Tennessee with shotguns and so far the dead coyote loads have proven themselves well!

[weedwalker]

Dont ever choke buckshot!!  Shoot improved cyl. or mod. only.

Have you ever read the end flap on a box of Remington buckshot?  It says to shoot thru full choke. Just wonderin'. I'm sure they've done several test to see what works best.

[THO Game Calls]

This coyote was taken with a 17 HMR and a 20 grain bullet.   It was shot in January 2003.  So it can be done, but it was the last one we used the 17 on.




Now don't get me wrong, I love my Remington 597, but it just is not a good coyote gun.   We had to track the one above about 75 yards, and there was very little blood trail.   Mostly urine.  He kept peeing every few yards?    The 17 is now reserved for crows mostly.   I have taken it out for coyotes since then, but I wasn't thinking straight.

My Marlin 22 mag is a better choice, but even that has left me tracking coyotes before, and no matter what I put in it, it's a summer gun after 75 yards.  Some are over there, some are over here, you get the idea.

The 12 gauge is a better choice in most cases as everyone has said.   I just use a standard factory full choke and it patterns well out to about 35 to 40 yards, which is fine for me.   #4 buck is what we use.  

I too used to stand up when using the shotgun, but now I just carry the seat part of my Summit climbing tree stand.   It weighs about 5 pounds.   Just strap it to a tree and sit down nice and comfy and up a bit off the ground for visibility and keeps the butt warmer.

You might feel limited with a shotgun, and you will no doubt see the odd coyote crossing a field or standing somewhere where a center fire would get him, but the shot gun is a good all around choice for hunting in the east.

[JDMiller]

This thread just goes to show everyone has various opinions..... so I'll share mine.

I do a lot of hunting at LBL &  the majority of the time yote hunters are restricted to shotguns or rimfires. That said...my go to gun has been a 17HMR...through a Savage 9317FV for the past couple years. I only use CCI 20gr Gamepoints because their not a frangible bullet. They will mushroom...much like a big game bullet and one of only a few produced not to basically explode on impact. Theres also several FMJ type bullets which would not be my preference either. They have the power to penetrate but just doesnt transfer the energy.

Most of my hunting there is in timber where basically all my shots are well within 75 yds or less. The round itself is super accurate...which is nothing more than a 22 mag brass necked down to accept the 17 diameter bullet. With the proper bullet and doing a little research on yote anatomy.... I've found that if you attempt your shot placement following the front leg to slightly forward of where it connects to the body / shoulder....its a very deadly round. I've pretty much bang-flopped around 1/2 dozen yotes with this round and do not have any reservations for using it on yotes.

With that said......I basically only use the 17HMR in places I'm restricted and tote a 22-250 everwhere else. I'll also say a shotgun is a great choice but I'm very fond of predator hunting with rifles. So....suggesting shotguns as many have is a very viable option. The 22 mag is a great choice as well....I have one of those too but just favor the 17HMR.  You just need to impose restrictions on yourself ....which can be a little fustrating. Also... as hunting with any weapon....shot placement is key.

Good luck with whatever you choose.