America's War Between the States

[HaMeR]

150 years ago today the Battles began.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War

[slagmaker]

Ya know one of the biggest reasons behind the civil war was the conferderate states wanted the right to govern themselves. With less Federal interference. Slavery was low on the list, it was there yes but not the main reason. It seems like America had one other war that was for basically the same reason. HMMMMM wonder what war that was??   Can you guess it? It was the Revolutionary war. We wanted the right to decide in the way we were governed. The way we were taxed and the laws that were imposed on us.

I guess both of those wars were lost in the long run. The goverment still controls you with very little say if any from the people it is governing. The goverment can run shod over a state by denying federal monies or aid. Think federal highways or Interstates. All the goverment had to do was cut off funding when they watned the max speed limit set at 55. Not the max on there roads but all roads in that state. This is only an example, the list of goverment controls goes long and deep.

I am just saying maybe it is time to take our country back. And this time  make sure we win

[George Ackley]

slagmaker Its simpler then that,,

South , sore looser's

the election of 1860 when Mr Lincoln won the presidential election voted on by the people some southern leaders were mad because they didn't get the outcome they wonted , so being scared they would loose there slave labor  witch was keeping the rich richer by way of there economic system of agriculture is why some Southern states began to to secede.

its that simple

Revolutionary war was a tad different

[slagmaker]

yes diffrent but it still boils down to the people wanting to govern themselves or at least have greater say in how they are governed.

[FinsnFur]

I failed history class, so c'mon keep going....I'm learning some stuff here.

[George Ackley]

First i like to say i am just conversating not Arguing i am a big histry buff and will talk about my thought on the subject till the cows come home


Democrats had one of there first conventions in South Carolina, at this convention 50 delegates from the Southern states walk out of the convention when the democrats wouldn't except  a proposal that would allow rich southern's  the right to have slave owners. and they walk out the next get together the dem's had in Baltimore. all because the slavery . so slavery was one of the big issues of the war.
did you know that Mr. Lincoln wasn't even on the bait in the south in 1860 in the south.

in my simple mined, here is how the revolutionary war started... Money money just like all wars
the rich get richer and the poor young die!  Britain went to war with the french and Indians
Americans ( rich America) was upset to have to chip in and help pay for it after it was all over.

Nothing is as simple as it seems or what the books tell yea

[weedwalker]

Like George said, follow the money. At the time of the civil war, a large portion of our nations wealth was in the southern cotton industry. Them yanks up there in the big cities didn't want to loose control of it if the south succeded.
Did you know that a black confederate soldier was paid the same pay as a white soldier? The north didn't pay or treat their black soldiers anywhere near as good as the white soldiers.

[George Ackley]

sorry i don't Bellevue that, if I have my numbers right it was more like this .

0.1% of the entire black population in the Confederate states served in the confederate army . 
Compared to 200,000 total blacks that served in the Union,

this may interest yea
  around 5,000 blacks served in the USA Army.just  from the state of Alabama.
a total of i think 100,000 blacks from southern states served in the US  Troops.

the pay may have been the same but that may have somthing to do with trying to inlist more then 0.1 % of the southern blacks

[weedwalker]

There were approximatly 65,000 black troops seving in the south. Here's an interesting link to tell their story.

http://www.usgennet.org/usa/mo/county/stlouis/blackcs.htm

[nastygunz]

I am on page 799 of one of the best books I have ever read, am reading, on the civil war, called Freedom, by William Safire, excellent read!!

http://www.amazon.com/Freedom-William-Safire/dp/0792424948

Quick trivia, what gentlemen was not only the youngest vice president in history, a senator, confederate general, and confederate secretary of war?

[nastygunz]

http://www.civilwarhome.com/kingcotton.htm

[FinsnFur]

  I'm a listening

[slagmaker]

Did you know that president Lincoln wanted all people of color deported to Brazil. He felt that blacks and whites should not live together in the same country

[Bopeye]

President Lincoln also said no black should ever hold property or be allowed to vote. By the way, Lincoln was a Republican. It was the Republicans for the blacks then and the Democrats for keeping them enslaved. Interesting how things have turned. Special interest groups started that chit.
The South had already stated that IF Lincoln were elected that they would secede from the Union. He was elected, sworn in and within months it started.
In my view, Lincoln was our first Dictator. Every state joined the United States Voluntarily. Then when the Confederate States formed and seceded they were forced, by war, to stay within the Union. That is exactly what the dang British did to us. When we wanted to self govern, reasons be damned, the British tried to keep us under the crown through war. Fortunately, the French saw a chance to dig at their old adversaries, the British and gave us a hand. That was more about money, but whatever.
Now, I also happen to believe that eventually, regardless of the war, slavery would have ended and the States would have once again joined. Maybe not formally, but we would have been countrymen. Kind of like England and Scotland. Those two fought a lot too. Now they co-exist peacefully. Same would have happened with the United and Confederate States.
Once last thing. Slavery wasn't all that started the Civil War, but let us not forget our that at the top of the South's Independence, it did indeed say, "The Slave Holding Confederate States of America". Alot of that started in bloody Kansas and Missouri. The deal was for every state that came into the Union they had to bring a second in at the same time. One had to be Free while the other had to be slave holding.
That way they stayed even voting power in Senate. If you'll ever notice, Oklahoma has a little panhandle coming of the Northwest side of it. That use to be Texas. That was the parallel that seperated the North from the south, so Texas lost it's northern most point. Enough for now.

[CCP]

   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8hPo6mYnks&feature=player_embedded


Where did this misconception of slavery being the cause of the war come from? The answer is from the President's attempt to end the war prematurely through the emancipation proclamation.


In November of 1862,President Abraham Lincoln issued the preliminary emancipation proclamation. In this speech, Lincoln stated that any seceded state that does not return to the Union by the first of the year 1863 would lose its constitutional right to own slaves. Up until this point, the federal government was unable to legally abolish slavery because the southern states rights to slaves were protected under the constitution. But now the southerners were rebels. If the seceded states did not return to the Union, the government would have every right to reposes the southerner's slaves because it was now considered relieving property from outlaws who would now have no rights at all.


On January 1, 1863, after no state returned to the Union, Lincoln presented the Emancipation Proclamation which stated that once the Union won the war, all slaves would be freed in the entire country. It is at this point that the war becomes a fight to free the slaves, not before. At this point the war had been burning strong for over a year. So it is obvious that this could not be the cause, because the threat of abolition did not come until long after the conflict began.

Only the extremely rich could afford to even own a plantation, and the majority of the populations of the south were not very rich. So it is obvious that hundreds of thousands of people could not be fighting for slavery.

1860 Federal Census
4 Million blacks were in the South 261,988 were not Slaves. 10,689 free blacks lived in New Orleans and 3,000 of these owned slaves and only 13% of whites owned slaves.


At least the guy in the above clip gets it. One of the biggest problems is the victors got to re-write the history books. Unfortunately we teach our children garbage when it comes to Southern history concerning the civil war. Most seem to think slavery was confined to color of skin. Slavery was still alive and well in the 40's and 50's it was called share cropping. Slavery was pushed out because it wasn't cost effective any longer to maintain slaves not because the South lost the war or the anti American Lincoln said so. Just because something was made illegal doesn't mean it doesn't exist anymore.

I think people watch the movies and read the re-written history to much and believe all slaves were beatin everyday. Truth is you take care of what feeds your family whether your a slave owner or slave.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF-QIJyLhKQ&feature=related

[FinsnFur]

Holy crap who's the new guy?
Welcome to Fins and Fur CCP

[Jeb]

Rich you nailed it on the head ! Dont even expect some to believe or understand what you posted. Even some history teachers down here would tell you we were being taught what the gov says to teach, not necessarily the truth especially the us civil war.  Do some research, slavery was NOT the reason the south wanted out of the union. None of my ancesters that fought for the south owned slaves, they worked along side of them in their fields. Most were on the same playing field , simple farmers black and white. Good post Rich.
                        Jeb                           

[KySongDog]

[CCP]

 

Even some history teachers down here would tell you we were being taught what the gov says to teach, not necessarily the truth especially the us civil war.

What do we expect the Public school system began in 1865 with Government teachers that taught our children this civil war over slavery garbage and basically wrote there feel good perception and forced it on us as if it were facts.

The war was started over a TAX increase.

Slavery ended because of the INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION.

By lying and trying to make it a feel good "we are freeing slaves" they have created a divide that is still present today. Today many of us right here on this board is against higher taxes and governmental control same as the Confederacy in 1860.

Same as the Tea party today being accused of being racist and wanting to destroy the planet.


Semp I like your flag. unfortunately a lot of people don't even know what it truthfully stands for or the meaning of it.

[KySongDog]

Here is a great film about the Civil War.  One of the narrators, Shelby Foote, does an excellent job.  Makes you feel like he was there and you are hearing first hand recollections of that terrible war.   Over 600,000 died. 

The Civil War: A film by Ken Burns