Fun in the NH woods

browning204 · December 02, 2007, 05:57:22 PM

Another member of NHW&W and I Hooked up this morning to do some calling. He met me down my way and we did a couple of stands where I had seen some activity before. NOTHING.

So we make a plan to go up his way where he said he has been busted by coyotes many times. He told me that they howl and bark and get all weird with him. I think, thats weird, never heard of easterns getting vocal during the day!

So we go up to his spot and we scout around for a bit. Scat everywhere!

We get our gear and head into the woods, set down and do a couple series of bunny blues, NUTHIN!

I switch over to howls and within 20 seconds the woods lights up with howls like there were 100 of them bad boys in there! I was like HOLY CRAP! :shck:

So long story short, these coyotes are howling, moving, howling, moving for about an hour. We called them in from close to a mile away to right on top off us. These things wouldn't stop, even when both my partner and I had to get up to get the blood flowing and take a leak. This went on for an hour.

We could see quick flashes of fur but nothing we could get a shot at.

We decided to give it a rest and go back to the truck for some heat and make a new plan. Our new plan was to go back in but move closer to where the Howling started.

So we do that, set down hit the Howls and WHAM, howls back but much closer. Again we go back and forth. They howl, we howl, they move and howl, we howl on and on for another while.

A couple times I looked over at my partner and he had his gun to his shoulder because they where getting very close. I look back straight ahead and WOOF, this coyote barks at the back of my head, if he was more than 10 feet from me then He was three miles. I darn near Jumped outta my skin!

After a little while more it started to get dark so we packed up.
That was an awesome experiance, we just got to figure out why they never showed themselves. I hope we can hook up and do it again.

p.s. any ideas why they got so vocal and moved alot but never came to the caller? I used all different types of vocalizations, all of them triggered a vocal response but none would come in closer than they did. (except that one who scared me!)

wv_yoter · December 02, 2007, 06:54:59 PM

That sounds like a real cool experience. I hope you figure them out and nail one or two. Good luck

HaMeR · December 02, 2007, 07:02:56 PM

:shck: Glad to hear that backdoor dog kept his distance & just barked!!

That would be soooooo cool tho!!

Well,,,, after I cleaned up that is!!

:roflmao:

HaMeR · December 02, 2007, 07:03:49 PM

Were your scent blockers full after that??

:roflmao: :roflmao:

browning204 · December 02, 2007, 07:19:52 PM

no I didn't poo myself. It caused me to jump a little bit and turn my head. Now I know this is a debateable subject but, after hearing these for a couple hours, we could tell the younger ones from the older ones. The older ones had that deep chest howl. Some of these sounded BIG.

I have a couple of ideas for the next time we call that spot. First I wanna hear ideas of why these coyotes howled and moved howled and moved. Why not go to the sound source and get shot?

p.s. Last snow that we had showed lotsa Cat tracks, we can't hunt cats

HaMeR · December 03, 2007, 06:36:42 AM

Just messin with you some.

browning204 · December 03, 2007, 09:55:08 AM

I know

FinsnFur · December 04, 2007, 09:20:59 PM

You might have been close to a boundary or territorial line Browning.
The fact that it went on for an hour has me stumped though. Normally if they'd get close enough to make you out, they'd be gone.

I dont want you to think I'm doubting you, and I'm certainly no professional, but are you sure it wasn't like a warning type situation? Where they made you out and were warning the others.

CCP · December 04, 2007, 09:39:44 PM

Sounds like you guys had a blast and was pumped by all the vocal and close coyotes. I know I would have been. I have had this happen a few times (not 10 feet) but it has been along time. They would usually stay 40 or so yards out through the thickets.

This is one of the reasons I quit hunting coyotes in the late afternoon. Seems as they would hang up and ghost in an out howling and yelping waiting for darkness. Sometimes they would appear right at dark and I aint no shadow shooter.If they are unsure why come on in when they can wait for darkness were they have an advantage. The one may have came in from behind sizing you up if he thought you were another coyote or they saw you as a threat and tried to push you out..

Once the coyote came in to your back side and then they continued being vocal I would think they were more on the lines of what Jim was stating a warning, push you out of the area type thing. Of course I am no coyote behavioralist ether I just like callin them and shootin them.

coyotehunter_1 · December 04, 2007, 11:14:20 PM

"He told me that they howl and bark and get all weird with him."
Bop and I ran into a couple of coyotes like that last year @ LBL.

I know Jimmie in Ky has been there also.

"... where he said he has been busted by coyotes many times."
I would bet that group has had some real bad experiences with two legged rabbits in the past.

Educated coyotes can be killed but it will more than likely take something a little different.
I feel caller/shooter tactics will be the key factor for success in a situation like this. Sometimes an ambush works well. The person calling sets up aways behind the shooter (who is downwind 50-75 yards or so into the woods).The idea here is to head off the approaching coyote(s) before they get close to the caller. The most important thing is to never shoot in each others direction, always know where the other person is at all times. We set up no shooting zones. A scatter gun also works pretty well for close in woodland settings.
Learning the lay of the land (from which direction the coyotes are most likely to come from) and knowing the prevailing wind direction are both major factors that help make this type of set up work.

I don't know if this will help you in your area but it has payed off for me here.

THO Game Calls · December 05, 2007, 07:31:18 AM

You have all the tools needed to master this situation.

Set your e caller up 50 to 75 yards from you, sneak back and get up in your tree stand about 20 or so feet.

I imagine that one of the problems you are facing is that your calling partner has been hitting this area hard because he knows there are coyotes there. This is teaching them. An other problem you might be facing is thermals. What is the elevation of the terrain like where you are hunting? Are they coming from a high area or a deep woods area? What's at your back? Woods, fields, swamp? High ground? Are you setting up in a low area? Or a high area? Prevailing winds in NH are from the west. In the last month, our winds have been from the south west and north east because of the storms. If the wind aint right, you'll lose the fight.

Finally, listen to the coyotes. What are they teaching you? If you don't hear them much in the day time in NH, then why would you go out and make a coyote party with your e caller? It's not natural to them, and they know it, so it makes them wary. I would hit it with one or two howls and then shut up and watch and listen. If they are there, chances are very good they will come to investigate. Don't think they haven't heard you. They have. Over calling can spook them as much as smelling your or seeing you.

Often times when we walk into the woods, we bring our domestic lives with us. Slow down. Become a part of the environment you are in. Leave your world behind and try to become part of theirs. That may sound mystical and silly, but if you do things that are natural to the coyotes, and allow them to do what comes naturally to them, you stand a much better chance of killing them. When you try to force them, or try to make them do things that they normally would not do, more often than not, you will come away empty handed.

I think this is what hunters mean when they say that "set up" is the most important thing. Being able to look at the terrain, judge the wind, and make an educated guess as to what the coyote is going to do in his natural state and then setting up to allow him to do what comes naturally allows the coyote a semblance of comfort. It is that small amount of comfort that is often his demise. When you take him out of his comfort zone, his senses become much more acute, and he is on higher guard and much tougher to kill.

AL

browning204 · December 05, 2007, 08:13:14 AM

we are gonna try that "ambush" set-up next time as well as me bringing my tree climber.

To answer Al's question.

The woods are thick, Hard and soft wood with alot of Hemlock in there. We where setting up with our backs to the access road looking Down into the woods. we sat about 25 yards from each other with my partner looking 90 degrees of me. We kept the caller close to us because lack of clear shooting room.
Any coyotes responding would have to come UP towards us. We stayed on high ground. The wind was crossing right to left. Barely moving.

The thing with these coyotes is, they would respond to my howls, and if I stopped then they would also but then they would start again a couple minutes later as if they wanted to chat. Distress sounds where pretty much ineffective. While howling and barking, they always moved. close then far and would circle us. They very interested in us. I would think that if they had us made, they would just go away.

Like I said, weirdst behavior I have seen in my short coyote hunting life. Usually they either come of not.

browning204 · December 05, 2007, 08:14:13 AM

oh ya, Next time we go there I am gonna bring my video camera, even if I don't get video, I will get some audio.

Bluesman · December 05, 2007, 11:32:02 AM

I had something similar happen to me several years ago in Connecticut. The woods were so loaded with scat and tracks that I knew I would get a response to my calling. I did, but, just like you guys I didn't see anything. The vocalizations were incredible. All I was using back then was a distress call. I think this was in 1995. Someone put me onto this sheep farm that turned out to be more of a sheep "pen". I eventually hunted all around it in some of the prettiest hardwoods I'd ever seen but I killed nada. I sure did get excited a few times though. I'm inclined to ecourage you to go along with the ambush approach usging minimal calling in the future. If you guys can safely seperate and call just enough to get that pack to survey the area again, perhaps one of you will be able to drop one. I have no business giving anyone any advice but it sounds good on paper.
JB

browning204 · December 05, 2007, 01:41:16 PM

thanks Bluesman

Omega47 · December 08, 2007, 11:58:34 PM

Quote from: coyotehunter_1 on December 04, 2007, 11:14:20 PM
"He told me that they howl and bark and get all weird with him."
Bop and I ran into a couple of coyotes like that last year @ LBL.
I know Jimmie in Ky has been there also.

"... where he said he has been busted by coyotes many times."
I would bet that group has had some real bad experiences with two legged rabbits in the past.

<SNIP>

Hey guys - I'm the one who took Browning to the spot. Just to give you a heads up, this is like my private sanctuary. Nobody else hunts back there but me, at least not in the last 5 years or so. We have 2000 acres of state owned land to the right, another 2000 or so acres behind us, our plot is 375 acres, and on the left is 1000 acres of private land that is posted no hunting. Altogether, there is about 4000 acres of habitat feeding the 75 acres or so that I hunt. We have moose, bear, turkey, bobcat by the dozens and a tremendous amount of dogs. What we don't have a lot of is deer, squirrels or other small mammals because the dogs eat any of them that are foolish to wander into this area. From what I have been told, nobody has hunted any of these dogs in over 40 years, so it isn't hunting pressure that is causing the problem.

I've made 10 trips this year for the dogs (the one with Browning was the 10th). The second trip was the most exciting as one entire pack of dogs snuck about 20 feet behind me and all went off at once, howling and barking non-stop for about 2-3 minutes, then they ran off. My adrenaline was gushing, my heart thumping, and I thought I was going to be killed. Stupidly I only had one round in my gun and no extra ammo as I wasn't expecting to get more than one shot before dark that day. The cover is so thick in this area I couldn't see any (an ongoing problem in this spot). I only know they were there from the footprints behind me.

Every time I've been out, I can maintain conversations with the dogs all day as long as I use "Hi, how do you do" calls and not challenge calls. I can talk to them any time of day, any day of the month, etc. They are always available. Other hunters have gone so far as to call me a liar when I tell them this, but though skeptical, Browning never resorted to that type of insult so I took him to the spot. Now he is a believer

These dogs are fat, dumb and happy and do not respond at all to prey calls, but sometimes you can lure them close with a wimpy fawn bleat. As Browning mentioned, there is scat everywhere, and of every type. You could sort it in piles by type of food the dogs have been eating there is so much. As best I've been able to figure out, there are three main packs of dogs separated by a T-shaped stream system. Plus there are dozens of single free roaming dogs that follow the deer trails, plus another pack back up on the big hill. These dogs are very well fed and don't want for anything. The abundant scat piles is a year round thing, not an occasional occurrence.

My guess as to why they don't expose themselves or respond to challenge calls is these dogs have been untouched for generations. They have no fight in them. There is plenty of land and food around for everyone. I'm sure they challenge each other frequently, but it is just friendly chatter. No one needs to get into a fight so they don't bother with the aggressive stuff. At least that's the theory I'm working on after calling them every 2 weeks since September and watching how they react.

Based on my observations and Browning's input, I think we have a plan on how to get them, one pack at a time and it is going to involve using multiple callers at long distance, separated by some distance between them. Hopefully we'll have some luck and report back here in a week or two.

browning204 · December 09, 2007, 07:31:41 AM

and I am gonna bring in my video camera to try to catch some of those vocalizations on film, and hopefully some coyotes getting shot.

MELSDAD · December 09, 2007, 08:01:54 AM

What a great story, You won't forget that hunt anytime soon.

browning204 · December 09, 2007, 08:10:35 AM

thanks melsdad. And by the way, Glad you found the forum Omega. I told you this was a good one, you'll enjoy it and when we get some fur down, we'll be on the phone with Jim and he will talk us throught he skinning and fleshing process!

vvarmitr · December 09, 2007, 10:49:57 AM

Quote from: Omega47 on December 08, 2007, 11:58:34 PM
the 75 acres or so that I hunt.

nobody has hunted any of these dogs in over 40 years, so it isn't hunting pressure that is causing the problem.

I've made 10 trips this year for the dogs (the one with Browning was the 10th).

after calling them every 2 weeks since September and watching how they react.

Not trying to be a smart butt w/ you by any means Omega, but I would consider calling in a 75 acre area evey 2 weeks hunting pressure. Please enlighten me if I'm reading this wrong.

Sure sounds like you have yourself a honey hole for sure.