Fun in the NH woods

[THO Game Calls]

What did I leave out?

The other 47 times you two guys have hunted that spot this season.

I understand it's New Hampshire, but for God's sake, there are more than 3 or 4 coytoes in the state.  

I know neither one of you think you are over hunting it, but between you, you have been out there what, 12 or more times this season?

Hows that working out for you?

Al

[HaMeR]

Good write up Jason, Not sure if the line " run one of your typically unsucsessful stands" is a shot or not, but good right up anyways

browning-- I read it differently.   Read it in conjunction with the rest of that sentence. I think he meant to do "as usual" so you can stay & try to observe their movements of possible. Thats how I took it anyhow.    Could be an opportunity to intercept them in a different area or along their travel path either the next time out or just reset differently a couple hundred yards away. HTH

[HaMeR]

Hey guys - I'm the one who took Browning to the spot.  Just to give you a heads up, this is like my private sanctuary.  Nobody else hunts back there but me, at least not in the last 5 years or so.  We have 2000 acres of state owned land to the right, another 2000 or so acres behind us, our plot is 375 acres, and on the left is 1000 acres of private land that is posted no hunting.  Altogether, there is about 4000 acres of habitat feeding the 75 acres or so that I hunt.  

[/color]
^^^^ is from page 2 of this thread.  I put the red/bold in the quote.

If there is about 4,375 acres of public/private land there why not try to get them from as many different angles as possible? Seems like a lot more opportunities on that much ground VS the 75 acres that have been hunted. If I'm missing something here just let me know.

I'm also wondering about the sounds being used. Are you using a FoxPro?? If so do you have the "Rodent Squeaks" on it?? Just use it sparingly off & on. Run it for 30 seconds to get their attention then mute it. Run it every couple minutes on low volume for 5-10 seconds at a time & stay quiet the rest of the time. Low volume since rodents don't squeak very loud anyhow.

HTH

[browning204]

What did I leave out?

The other 47 times you two guys have hunted that spot this season.

I understand it's New Hampshire, but for God's sake, there are more than 3 or 4 coytoes in the state.  

I know neither one of you think you are over hunting it, but between you, you have been out there what, 12 or more times this season?

Hows that working out for you?

Al

Right, he has hunted it a bunch before he brought me there. I am just trying to explain what I have seen first hand. He has gotten different responses.

[browning204]

No, I am not using a foxpro. We have been using Howls from a WT. Distess doesn't seem to get them going.

[THO Game Calls]

Distess doesn't seem to get them going

Are you trying to kill these coyotes or have a coffee clutch with them?

If you could speak coyote, it might sound something like this

Mike and the WT - "Hey, I'm a big bad coyote and I'm invading your territory.  What you going to do about it?"

Coyotes - "Yeah Yeah Yeah, we've heard it for weeks now.  It might have worked the first time but we are wise to you now so piss off."


The coyotes will teach you what you need to know to kill them if you pay attention.

You're not paying attention.

Al

[Bopeye]

Distess doesn't seem to get them going

Are you trying to kill these coyotes or have a coffee clutch with them?

If you could speak coyote, it might sound something like this

Mike and the WT - "Hey, I'm a big bad coyote and I'm invading your territory.  What you going to do about it?"

Coyotes - "Yeah Yeah Yeah, we've heard it for weeks now.  It might have worked the first time but we are wise to you now so piss off."


The coyotes will teach you what you need to know to kill them if you pay attention.

You're not paying attention.

Al

Wise words if I ever heard them. Now pay attention son......

Sometimes are preconceived notions are our worst enemies. We follow through with them to a fault.

[ohiobob]

browning204
When you guys hunt together, do you 2 stay within Sight of each other, or does 1 of you circle out in another direction, to maybe see them,where they are stopping to Howl at you ???
If they are coming within 200 yards of you 2 guys, and then yapping at you,,maybe 1 of you can circle, and try to get them where they are stopping,to answer your Howls,, leave 1 guy at the caller and the other guy can try and intercept them,, if its a remote caller, then maybe you can both circle in a different direction,,then maybe the Coyotes will Stop 200 yards from the caller,,but then they might be in your Sights if you circle towards them by 100 yards or so
If you 2 have always stayed at the caller,the coyotes might assume you are STILL at the caller,,when in reality you are away from the caller and trying to get the Coyotes in the Coyotes Comfort Zone ???
Its hard for me to type what I am trying to say,,but Give em Hell,,it sounds like the Hunters and the Coyotes are Bullheaded enough that SOMETHING has to happen soon,, and 1 thing is,,IF you guys do get 1 of these Coyotes,it will definatly be a Trophy that you have WORKED for
Good Luck
Bob

[Omega47]

What did I leave out?

The other 47 times you two guys have hunted that spot this season.

I understand it's New Hampshire, but for God's sake, there are more than 3 or 4 coytoes in the state.  

I know neither one of you think you are over hunting it, but between you, you have been out there what, 12 or more times this season?

Hows that working out for you?

Al

Now you are getting sarcastic and mean.  We have been there a total of 14 times since September 1st, separated by at least 2 weeks between attempts since December (I was going a lot more frequently before then).   The reacton of the dogs is the same now as it was that first day in September.   Their replies have not changed.  The only difference now is we can sustain the chatter back and forth for a lot longer period of time using Browning's WT caller than I could using my mouth calls.   If we've learned anything about these dogs is that they are willing to play.

I honestly don't think we've over hunted them (never a shot has been fired), nor have we spooked them (as demonstrated by their willingness to play any time we start calling).   I think the reality is we have not yet entered their territory to where they consider us a threat.   At best, we've been discovering the outside edges of it, which at this point appears to be about 4 miles long on the side we come in on, but we haven't yet penetrated into the heart of it, mainly because of the lack of any trails or paths leading us in without serious hiking.   The only entries weve found are by walking in through a creek or hoofiing it through some pretty rugged terrain.  It's going to take some more scouting and some serious planning to get in there.

Lastly, as far as there being other dogs in NH, who cares?  This is some serious fun we're having.   C'mon - what more could you want?  We have at least a couple different packs of dogs that challenge us, talk to us, and give us an adventure any time we go out.  They are always there for us, ready to play and forcing us to think and to scout, exploring areas of this parcel we would probably never even look at otherwise.  I'm sure we aren't too far away from busting them and their patterns, but honestly, sometimes I hope we never shoot one.  Chasing them is a whole lot of fun by itself.  

[Omega47]

browning204
When you guys hunt together, do you 2 stay within Sight of each other, or does 1 of you circle out in another direction, to maybe see them,where they are stopping to Howl at you ???
If they are coming within 200 yards of you 2 guys, and then yapping at you,,maybe 1 of you can circle, and try to get them where they are stopping,to answer your Howls,, leave 1 guy at the caller and the other guy can try and intercept them,, if its a remote caller, then maybe you can both circle in a different direction,,then maybe the Coyotes will Stop 200 yards from the caller,,but then they might be in your Sights if you circle towards them by 100 yards or so
If you 2 have always stayed at the caller,the coyotes might assume you are STILL at the caller,,when in reality you are away from the caller and trying to get the Coyotes in the Coyotes Comfort Zone ???
Its hard for me to type what I am trying to say,,but Give em Hell,,it sounds like the Hunters and the Coyotes are Bullheaded enough that SOMETHING has to happen soon,, and 1 thing is,,IF you guys do get 1 of these Coyotes,it will definatly be a Trophy that you have WORKED for
Good Luck
Bob

Bob,

Browning and I typically space ourselves up to 50 yards apart, each facing different directions and covering different terrain so there is no chance of a cross fire situation.  When my son is with us, we split up even farther apart.

The problem with the "circle around" theory is the terrain.  Even without snow, it is very difficult at best with endless boulders, exposed roots and fallen trees and branches.   Last time we went out, the snow was hip deep on top of all that junk.   I was tripping over hidden trees and boulders constantly.   When I got back to the truck, my gun barrel and scope were packed with snow.  You get exhausted after hiking only a few dozen yards.  I think we have to be committed to where we set up, so picking that starting point is the most important part of the stand.    As I said earlier, I think all our stands to date have been good ones, but we are on the outer limits of their territory.  We need to start from a spot deeper inside their territory which means we may have to start at least a couple hours earlier to allow us enough time to hike in and get settled before calling. 

Omega47

[Omega47]

If there is about 4,375 acres of public/private land there why not try to get them from as many different angles as possible? Seems like a lot more opportunities on that much ground VS the 75 acres that have been hunted. If I'm missing something here just let me know.

I'm also wondering about the sounds being used. Are you using a FoxPro?? If so do you have the "Rodent Squeaks" on it?? Just use it sparingly off & on. Run it for 30 seconds to get their attention then mute it. Run it every couple minutes on low volume for 5-10 seconds at a time & stay quiet the rest of the time. Low volume since rodents don't squeak very loud anyhow.

HTH

The problem is accessibility.  The main parcel is 5 miles long x 2 1/2 miles wide of undeveloped raw wilderness.  There is only one access point to this land and that is an old ragged dirt road originally cut back in the 1600s that runs right up through the middle of the property.   The outer edges of the parcel along the public roads are posted private property, no trespassing so we cannot access from any public road.  As mentioned in other posts, the terrain is very rough.  Other than from a couple old timer deer hunters, this land hasn't been accessed at all in the last 45 years (according to the current owner), and nobody's really been on it at all in the last 20 years.  It is all up and down hill and the land is strewn with glacial boulders, fallen trees, exposed roots, etc.  There are lots of creek beds and far more cliffs and vertical drops than you would imagine should be in there.  There is no easy walking anywhere on the property.  Now add two feet of snow on top of that and it gets tougher to get around.

As far as the callers go, these dogs have never responded to prey calls, whether it is using hand callers, my Preymaster, or any other caller.   They respond only to coyote howls.  I can get them going with my hand callers, but I run out of gas before they do.  Using Browning's WT caller, we can keep them talking to us for hours.

 

[Jrbhunter]

Not a shot at all, I'm very serious.  Do whatever it takes to locate or place the coyotes... and any stand made within their range (that doesn't kill them) will probably locate or rellocate them.

I recently kept a coyote talking for 6 hours while I hunted other farms in a 5-6 mile radius and harvested a couple other coyotes... eventually walking back in on him and killing him without any calls whatsoever.  He stood in the same 50 yard circle the entire time and responded to most, if not all, vocals I used on the other stands.   He had seen me kill at least two of his siblings- one of which had an infected gutwound I inflicted nearly two weeks earlier.  That 140 acre farm is now completely void of coyotes and has been for nearly three weeks dispite good numbers in every direction.   Sometimes these smart coyotes are too smart for their own good... as they become very predictable in their daily routines and their reactions to pressure. 

While callshy vocal coyotes are not the most likely to physically respond to a call, they'll allow you to pinpoint their location.  That location (thicket/hill/ridgeline) is where they feel safest when confronted with a pressure or threat from YOUR location (shelf, valley, clearing).  Maybe that's a piece of information you can use at the moment to rellocate and kill him, maybe it's something you need to keep in mind for next week, but it's extremely important to correlate that comfort zone with the setup and wind direction you used it in.

We have similar tracts of timber in my area, many are larger and the terrain is impassable in a lot of places.  Believe me, it's not easy to deal with problem coyotes in these areas.  While I have developed a few theories and techniques that I use in those situations they are not failproof or even high-precentage hitters for that matter.  You'd be MUCH better off hunting other coyotes- but that's not always an option.

PS: Don't expect these coyotes to climb a hill within 100-150 yards of the sound source.  Out, or down... but not up.

[THO Game Calls]

You two guys asked for suggestions.   Suggestions were given.

You didn't like them, even disagreed with them, (and still do) and so you took it to another board.

If you had told them that you had hunted this pack of coyotes 14 times since September they would have laughed you right out of the place.  

I am not being sarcastic or mean.  I am being honest.  

Go back and read this thread from when this board first started

http://www.finsandfur.net/forums/index.php?topic=251.0

I am going to leave you two with one last observation:

The coyotes you hear are not respondiing to your howls, in the way you think they are, instead, I think they are responding to warn other coyotes in the area that you are there.

Al

[Omega47]

I don't recall us not liking any of the suggestions.  I fact, I recall taking every one to heart and trying them when we got in the field.  If I discuss them at all it is to try and convert the information in the post into something my mind can relate to what we are seeing in the field.  I'm not being critical - just asknig more questions.

As far as the coyotes telling others that we are there - if you read my first point on the NH forum, that is what I said was happening and someone told me I was wrong......  My buddy at Knight & Hale told me that back in September.   He calls it the "bang - your busted" call.  But still, I don't think it's all that bad because when we stop, these dogs will start their "hi, how do you do" calls until we play back, then it all starts up again.  It's like a game to them.

Before we started, I warned Browning that anyone I've told this story to calls me a liar or worse, and anyone I've taken out to see these dogs first hand who then goes on to tell what they saw gets ridiculed by their former hunting buddies as being nothing short of a lunatic.    Browning didn't believe me until he witnessed things first hand.  I've been going on coyote hunts in CA and in TX for 15+ years and have never come across anything like these dogs.   Out there, you call and the dogs come running.  Unfortunately, these dogs aren't territorial, they don't want to fight and I am convinced they do like to play.  I have no doubt they are effective hunters - their droppings are always packed with deer hair, other fur and berries, and there are always LOTS of scat everywhere we look.  These dogs aren't hungry or starving for a meal - at least not yet.  Maybe in January things will change, but even when I put out bait piles these dogs don't go near them. 

Bottom line is the past few months have been a great learning experience for me.  I've really enjoyed tracking these dogs and bantering back and forth with them.   Every step taken with them has been logical and methodical.  As stated, the next logical step is for us to trek deeper into their domain and set up there.   We'll try that this weekend.   If we get them, fine.  If not, I know I'll have something fun to do in another 2 weeks. 

[THO Game Calls]

I never called either of you a liar.   I have no doubt that what you say is happening.

You have fun chasing those "dogs".  Hope you get one.

Al

[browning204]

[quote author=

The coyotes you hear are not respondiing to your howls, in the way you think they are, instead, I think they are responding to warn other coyotes in the area that you are there.

Al

[/quote]

If that is true then why are they coming to the call and surrounding it to warn other coyotes? Wouldn't they put distance between themselves and the sound source but still vocalize to warn?

[browning204]

oh, and as far as taking the question to another board, I did that to try to get as many points of view as I can. Why not get as many tips as I can and try to apply them in the feild?

I really didn't think there is a problem with that.

[browning204]

oh ya, again. Thank you JRB for the replies.

[Bopeye]

oh ya, again. Thank you JRB for the replies.

I know you just accidentally forgot me, so I'll just say your welcome now..............

[HaMeR]

I see omega.  We have places here that are the same way. Sorry I couldn't help more tho.


Keep after em tho!! I wanna see some pics of these dead coyotes dammit!!