Fun in the NH woods

[Omega47]

Do it !!!!   Do it !!!  Listen to those voices in your head !!!   

[Omega47]

I met with a F&G officer today and found out why the dogs we've been chasing are so well fed and don't respond to prey calls - F&G maintains a carcass dump on the back side of the property that they put 3-5+ deer a week into.  Unfortunately, it is an area that is not huntable - posted land.  A lot of what he told me explains their odd behavior and why they are so hard to call in, and why there is deer hair filled scat everywhere.      I asked if we could access the coyotes through some of the bordering properties that they wander through but he said all the people who own the neighboring lands like the dogs and don't want to see them killed.   On the plus side, he said he'd give us as many deer carcasses as we need if I want to set up a bait pile on our plot.

A big difference between western hunting and hunting in NH is the attitude of another F&G officer I spoke with today.  He told me that all the land in his area is "already spoken for" by other hunters and there are no opportunities for us to hunt there, and he covers a huge territory.  He was nice about it but made it clear he wasn't going to help us.  What a joke.   But then again, the whole state of NH is smaller than Orange County CA, so I guess its a matter of having more hunters than huntable land here.  Explains why in 5 years of asking everyone we come across we've only found one plot of land to hunt on.

[THO Game Calls]

BS.

Al

[THO Game Calls]

I'm still shaking my head at your ignorance, but here are some FACTS for you Omega

There are 751,000 acres of federal land called the White Mountain National Forest that is open to year round hunting.  They do frown on you setting up in the parking lots of trail heads or on the back porches of the rest huts, but all the rest of it is open to hunting.   That's probably something like 750,000 acres.

There are  117 state forests, 41 state parks, 63 other tracts, and ovver 100 Wildlife Management Areas open to year round hunting in NH.

Almost ALL of the privately owned Paper Company land in NH is open to hunting

Any land not legally posted is legal to hunt on.   If the land is not posted, you do not have to have permission to hunt it.   Edited to say, if you have out of state plates, dont ask.  If you are a NH resident and you stop to ask, a lot of land owners will think you ARE an out of stater because if they didn't want you there, they would have posted the land.   

The State of NH gives an additional 20% tax break to land owners who allow hunting and fishing on their land year round, and that is ON TOP of the break they get for allowing other uses like hiling, biking and camping on their land.

There are about 60,000 licensed hunters in NH.  Most of them hunt deer for about 3  or 4 weeks a year.

20,000 of them hunt turkeys also

I would bet you there are less than 50 serious coyote hunters in the state.


I'll bet you that a large part of the problem you have getting permission to hunt up here is that people up hear like their dogs.  They're a part of the family.  Hell no they don't want you out there shooting their dogs.  I'm surprised some good old boy hasn't filled your ass with a load of buck shot wanting to shoot his dogs. 

Try asking if you can hunt coyotes sometime.  You might get a different answer.


Al

[THO Game Calls]

Couple of other points Omegaman

in the 1990's the state fish and game spent close to 50 millipn bucks buying up conservation easements so developers woiuld not be able to build near state lands so people like YOU would have a place to hunt.

The state constitution GUARANTEES us the right to hunt and fish FOREVER.


and perhaps the biggest point that somehow dosen't seem to be sinking in.....

I don't care if the fish and game dumped a truck load of grade A T Bone Steaks on that land once a day.

Coyotes respond to distress sounds.   They're COYOTES for goodness sake.  It's in their blood. 

Al


Where the hell did I put my meds?

[THO Game Calls]

Here;s a link to some of the Wildlife Management Areas in NH that you can hunt all year round.   They even have MAPS of the areas and tell you what game you can expect to find there.

http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Wildlife/WMA_index.htm

Here is a list of state lands where you CANNOT hunt

Frost Farm Historical Site in Derry
Urban Forestry Center in Portsmouth
Odiorne Point State Park in Rye (east side of Route 1A only - the west side of Route 1A is open to hunting),
Shieling State Forest in Peterborough
Opeechee Bay State Forest in Laconia
Pondicherry Wildlife Refuge in Jefferson

yup, that's all 6 of them.



No state land is "spoken" for.  It is for everyone to use.


Al

[Omega47]

I don't know what I did to piss you off, but you've been a little harsh lately in your replies.  

Sorry for my ignorance.  Here's some facts for you from my point of view.

I'm from CA and have lived in TX as well.  If you want to go hunting in either place, just ask.  100 people will jump at the opportunity to take you any day of the week.  For example, I'm going to So Cal for a week this month.  I made one phone call to a non-hunter in LA and told him I'd like to go on a coyote hunt if the opportunity presents itself.  Within an hour he hooked me up with someone that wants to take me on a hunt if I can make it to his ranch during my visit.

I've been in NH for 7 years.  We have asked at every sporting goods store, gun store, outdoor show, etc and in 7 years, not one person has ever said "hey, I'll take you out hunting and show you around" unless it involved a big cash fee (which we paid this spring for my son's first Turkey hunt).   Nobody would even point us to an area to scout for possible hunting opportunities.  They always tell us to "just keep asking.  Eventually someone will be able to show you a spot".  The first time I went scouting in the National Forest (last fall), my son and I were accosted by a group of guys who told us they'd kick the shit out of us if we ever attempted to hunt in their area.   When I tried to file a report with a ranger I was told "Oh, don't worry about those idiots, they just like to keep people away from their stands"  Real friendly people up there.

Also regarding the National Forest, we've been told by several F&G people not to even bother trying to hunt there because we'll be harrassed to no end either by non-hunters or rangers who don't want you shooting in their area.    As far as all this paper mill property and other places you mention- you grew up here.  You know where they are.  Hell, I didn't even know there were any paper mills in NH.  Whenever we think we found some hunting land, we ask and ask and ask and nobody will give us a clue whether or not it is huntable.  Even the F&G people - their job is to promote hunting and fishing opportunities yet the guy today told me his entire WMU is "full" with "no hunting opportunities".  Two others I've spoken with were nicer but still wouldn't do anything to assist other than tell me to "just go knocking on doors until you find someone that will let you hunt".

This year, we've made progress, but it has been slow.   I hooked up with the one guy that lets us hunt his property (where the dogs are), and another guy Ken from another site that showed us an orchard in Boscawen to hunt, and Browning took us to a state park, so honestly, I'm happy with what we've accomplished this year, but I just don't know New Hampshire or the local customs well enough to just show up at a piece of property and start hunting it.   Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but out west there is always someone to point out an area and to make the necessary introductions to get permission to hunt it.  They call it being responsible, or "polite".

Out here, asking about where to hunt is like you're trying to steal a family treasure.  Its frustrating to be in an area where people treat you like crap unless they know you and nobody is willing to make introductions and show you around.

[Omega47]

Thanks - that's helpful

Here;s a link to some of the Wildlife Management Areas in NH that you can hunt all year round.   They even have MAPS of the areas and tell you what game you can expect to find there.

http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Wildlife/WMA_index.htm

Here is a list of state lands where you CANNOT hunt

Frost Farm Historical Site in Derry
Urban Forestry Center in Portsmouth
Odiorne Point State Park in Rye (east side of Route 1A only - the west side of Route 1A is open to hunting),
Shieling State Forest in Peterborough
Opeechee Bay State Forest in Laconia
Pondicherry Wildlife Refuge in Jefferson

yup, that's all 6 of them.



No state land is "spoken" for.  It is for everyone to use.


Al

[Omega47]

Couple of other points Omegaman

in the 1990's the state fish and game spent close to 50 millipn bucks buying up conservation easements so developers woiuld not be able to build near state lands so people like YOU would have a place to hunt.

The state constitution GUARANTEES us the right to hunt and fish FOREVER.


and perhaps the biggest point that somehow dosen't seem to be sinking in.....

I don't care if the fish and game dumped a truck load of grade A T Bone Steaks on that land once a day.

Coyotes respond to distress sounds.   They're COYOTES for goodness sake.  It's in their blood. 

Al


Where the hell did I put my meds?

We can get them to respond all day long to dog howls but we have NEVER gotten any of them to respond to ANY prey sounds.  Not since I started calling them in September using mouth calls, reed calls, Johnny Stewart Preymaster calls, or any of Brownings electronic calls.   Dog calls, they'll chat with us all day long. 

[FinsnFur]

 

[THO Game Calls]

Out here, asking about where to hunt is like you're trying to steal a family treasure

No kidding.  

You need to do some home work.  And no, I did not grow up here.  I got stationed here in 1982 with the Marine Corps.   I lived here until 1989.  Then I went away for a few years, and came back after retiring in 1993  

In the 80's the average deer kill in the ENTIRE state was less than 4000 a year.

Today, NH has the smalled whitetaled deer population in the US of states that have deer.  It takes the average hunter 8 years to kill his first deer here.  Our deer kill this year for the ENTIRE state will be around 11,000 and that is going to be one of the BEST years we have had in 30 years,

No one is going to take you by the hand and say "sit here, that big 10 pointer I have been scouting all summer will be along any minute, you go ahead and shoot him another one will be along in a day or so."  We have less than 8 deer per square mile in NH, and in many places there is less than 1 deer per square mile.  

The deer hunting here SUCKS.  

You want people to show you where to hunt here?   You are kidding yourself.  


But, there are over 1 million acres of state owned land that you can hunt on.  

What you need to do, is put on a pair of boots and go for a walk in the woods, and you need to learn the Fish and Game Laws.  

If you get accosted while hunting or scouting by ANYONE, all you have to do is get a plate number of thier car.  Call the fish and game and get a warden.  It is a misdomener in NH to interfere with a hunter or fisherman in the persuit of game.  If you can't get a plate number, and you know where they are, the warden will come.  Usually he will bring a trooper too.  

Don't call a park ranger.  They are all liberal yuppies trying to find themselves.  Most of them are anti hunters who munch granola, think LL Bean is a real outdoors store and wouldn't know a coyote from a poodle.  

When I moived here, I was told not to even waste my time hunting deer.   I got here in November of 1982.  I spent every waking moment in a public state park scouting deer.   Opening day of bow season in 1983 I shot a nice liitle deer on public land not 20 minutes from my house.  No one took me by the hand and said go here, go there.

The game wardens here wont tell you where to hunt because they dont know where to hunt.  The only time they actually go in the woods is when they have to find a lost hunter.   And you saw how that went.  80% of the Fish and Game budget is spent resuing Muffy and Biff from one of the mountains in the Presidential range when they went up wearng shorts and tee shirts in April.  The only survial gear they carry is a cell phone.  911?  Help. We're lost.  



Hunting, is 90% scouting.  It's not begging or asking people where the deer or coyotes or anything else is.  It's boots on the ground, sweat, long days, and a bit of woodsmanship.   Get a map.  Learn how to use a compass,  Get a GPS, do some homework.  

Oh, and once you find a good spot, DONT TELL ANYONE.   I can assure you they will hunt the hell out of it every chance they get because 99% of "hunters" are too damn lazy to scout and do their homework and would tather someone show them where they can kill something instead of going out and hunting.  

As for your coyotes, I assure you they can be called, and they can be killed.   You probably will need to wait until the snow is gone sometime in late April or early May, but they can be called with distress sounds.

The game warden who told you they had a deer dump on private land was pulling  your leg.  it is not only illegal to dump deer like that, it is also bad management because of disease.   Additionally, Fish and Game does not pick up road kill in NH unless it is a moose or a bear.   The Highway department is tasked with that.  And, there wont be any road killed deer now for months, not until the snow starts to melt along the road sides.  The deer are in the yards now.  Those that survive the winter will become road hazards in the spring because the first places to get green are the road sides.  

And lastly, he was BSing you about giving you a dead deer for bait because it is illegal to set a bait pile out unless you have land owner permission, in writing, and have filed a topo map with the bait piles location with with the area game warden BEFORE you put the bait pile out.  

If you give me the name of the warden who told you there were no hunting oportunities in his area, I will make one phone call tomorrow to Don Clarke, the Fish and Game Commissioner, we go way back,  and that warden will be fired.  The state fish and game is in a financial crisis.  The last thing they want to do is drive people away from hunting and buying licenses.  

Al

[THO Game Calls]

Speaking of Don Clarke, he's the guy you want to call.   He used to be the Comissioner from Claremont.  He hates coyotes.  Thinks they kill all the deer.  Tell him you want to know were to hunt coyotes.   He hates them so much he tried a couple years ago to get the night hunting season extened from March 31 until August 31 so he could run his dogs at night because it was too hot to run them in the daytime.  Tell him your story about the warden, and tell him you want to kill coyotes,  You will make a friend.

I would leave the part about being from Commiefornia out though. 

Al

[Omega47]

Speaking of Don Clarke, he's the guy you want to call.   He used to be the Comissioner from Claremont.  He hates coyotes.  Thinks they kill all the deer.  Tell him you want to know were to hunt coyotes.   He hates them so much he tried a couple years ago to get the night hunting season extened from March 31 until August 31 so he could run his dogs at night because it was too hot to run them in the daytime.  Tell him your story about the warden, and tell him you want to kill coyotes,  You will make a friend.

I would leave the part about being from Commiefornia out though. 

Al

Too funny.  Both F&G people today told me that coyotes are not a problem in this state, that the locals love them and don't want them killed, and emphatically that NH coyotes do not kill deer.  They only eat what they find that someone else killed....

[browning204]

I would love to hunt the White Mountains. They are so vast, I wouldn't know where to begin to look for sign.

[Omega47]

Out here, asking about where to hunt is like you're trying to steal a family treasure

No kidding.  

Well at least I was right about something....

You need to do some home work.  And no, I did not grow up here.  I got stationed here in 1982 with the Marine Corps.   I lived here until 1989.  Then I went away for a few years, and came back after retiring in 1993  

In the 80's the average deer kill in the ENTIRE state was less than 4000 a year.

Today, NH has the smalled whitetaled deer population in the US of states that have deer.  It takes the average hunter 8 years to kill his first deer here.  Our deer kill this year for the ENTIRE state will be around 11,000 and that is going to be one of the BEST years we have had in 30 years,

No one is going to take you by the hand and say "sit here, that big 10 pointer I have been scouting all summer will be along any minute, you go ahead and shoot him another one will be along in a day or so."  We have less than 8 deer per square mile in NH, and in many places there is less than 1 deer per square mile.  

I wasn't expecting anyone to hold my hand.  I guess it's just a different state of mind.  Out west people will go hunting with you just to go hunting and have fun.  The best thing I found in CA was you can always find someone to do anything you want to do.  They become instant friends and there is always someone available if you want to go play.  I found this with shooting, hunting, race cars (I'm a former NASCAR driving instructor and USAC midget crew chief), model airplanes - you name it, there is always someone who will go with you.   I never expected anyone to hold my hand, but I was hoping to find people who liked to hunt and didn't mind a newbie tagging along.

The first clue I had that NH was different is when we moved to Laconia, the guy across the street walked over and said "Thank You" with more emotion than I would have expected.  I asked him "for what?".  He replied that he had lived there 9 years and was always "the new guy".  No one in the neighborhood would talk to him or give him the time of day.  They always referred to him as "the new guy" even after 9 years.  When we moved in, we became the "new guy".  Six years later, he is still the only neighbor that will talk to us, though he is now in good graces with the other people on this street.  He still thanks us for moving in and moving him up the social ladder here.  I've always felt the locals around here are a bunch of snooty mean a-holes because of this, and honestly, I can't wait to move back to CA or TX in a couple years.

The deer hunting here SUCKS.  

You want people to show you where to hunt here?   You are kidding yourself.  

Well, I guess that just reinforces my point.  After 7 years of asking and even paying a guide, I give up.  Thank God I'm really not interested in deer hunting, even though I find the overgrown rodents everywhere on the property.

But, there are over 1 million acres of state owned land that you can hunt on.  
What you need to do, is put on a pair of boots and go for a walk in the woods, and you need to learn the Fish and Game Laws.  

Don't call a park ranger.  They are all liberal yuppies trying to find themselves.  Most of them are anti hunters who munch granola, think LL Bean is a real outdoors store and wouldn't know a coyote from a poodle.  

From what the F&G people said about rangers, I believe that.  Even Kris at F&G office #2 said stay away from the National Parks as the rangers are not your friends and are often the biggest source of harassment of hunters.

This ranger knew these guys and basically said he wasn't going to do a thing because they were harmless (he implied we were bothering them!!).   I didn't get his name, but I vowed never to go back on the National Forest lands for hunting.

Hunting, is 90% scouting.  It's not begging or asking people where the deer or coyotes or anything else is.  It's boots on the ground, sweat, long days, and a bit of woodsmanship.   Get a map.  Learn how to use a compass,  Get a GPS, do some homework.  

Oh, and once you find a good spot, DONT TELL ANYONE.   I can assure you they will hunt the hell out of it every chance they get because 99% of "hunters" are too damn lazy to scout and do their homework and would tather someone show them where they can kill something instead of going out and hunting.  

Well, I work for the Military and until this year, I haven't been around much.  It's only since hooking up with this guy up north and Browning that I have been able to give any serious attention to hunting on a weekly basis.   Like I said, we've made good progress for the time we've spent so far, but it's time to add a new hunting spot to our portfolio.

As for your coyotes, I assure you they can be called, and they can be killed.   You probably will need to wait until the snow is gone sometime in late April or early May, but they can be called with distress sounds.

You're welcome to try.  How about Saturday?

The game warden who told you they had a deer dump on private land was pulling  your leg.  it is not only illegal to dump deer like that, it is also bad management because of disease.   Additionally, Fish and Game does not pick up road kill in NH unless it is a moose or a bear.   The Highway department is tasked with that.  And, there wont be any road killed deer now for months, not until the snow starts to melt along the road sides.  The deer are in the yards now.  Those that survive the winter will become road hazards in the spring because the first places to get green are the road sides.  

And lastly, he was BSing you about giving you a dead deer for bait because it is illegal to set a bait pile out unless you have land owner permission, in writing, and have filed a topo map with the bait piles location with with the area game warden BEFORE you put the bait pile out.  

I have no reason not to believe him.  I checked him out with the landowner I hunt with and he says this guy is a straight shooter.  We have night hunting and baiting permits that I'm taking over to file with F&G on Friday.  Once they are in place, this guy says he'll start bringing us deer carcasses as we ask for them.

[THO Game Calls]

Let me tell you what happens when you try to be nice to someone Omega.

You take a guy out coyote hunting.  Show him one of your favorite spots.  He actually gets a shot a coyote there.

Three days later, he goes back and does some locating with his e caller to see if there are coyotes in the areas.

Huh?

Then a week later he is back there hunting it.  Then again, with a buddy.  And then again.

A spot you took a couple years maybe and a WHOLE lot of work to find is no longer "your" spot.  It is now his, and his buddies, and everyones else he takes there.

A spot you hunt maybe two or three times a year is now ruined because someone else is hunting it every weelkend.

Buy a map, put on some boots and go scouting for your coyotes.  Don't ask at gun shows or shops.  Too many people have been burned to fall for that one.


As for hunting your coyotes, no, I think I will pass.  You have over hunted them severely and what you knew about them in September and October has changed drastically because of the deep snow.  You now have no clue what they are doing or where they are going.  It's pointless.  The best thing you could do right now is strap on some boots and snow shoes and go see where they are.  It might take a couple weeks, but once you find what they are doing, where they are living, you will be able to hunt them every time we get deep snow like this.  And come spring and early fall, if you do the same thing, you will be able to hunt them for years from the same spot as long as you dont do anything to disrupt their normal life in the woods.  The minute they know you are after them, they are going to change what they do.  Just the way it is.  You can argue the point, but it's still true.

AL
 

[Omega47]

Let me tell you what happens when you try to be nice to someone Omega.

You take a guy out coyote hunting.  Show him one of your favorite spots.  He actually gets a shot a coyote there.

Three days later, he goes back and does some locating with his e caller to see if there are coyotes in the areas.

Huh?

Then a week later he is back there hunting it.  Then again, with a buddy.  And then again.

A spot you took a couple years maybe and a WHOLE lot of work to find is no longer "your" spot.  It is now his, and his buddies, and everyones else he takes there.

A spot you hunt maybe two or three times a year is now ruined because someone else is hunting it every weelkend.

Well, that's what you get when you live in an area that obviously has more hunters than workable land.   

Buy a map, put on some boots and go scouting for your coyotes.  Don't ask at gun shows or shops.  Too many people have been burned to fall for that one.

That's what we've been doing the last 6 months.  BTW - what's to get burned about asking "hey, where's a good place to hunt?".   That question is just common sense when you move to a new area.   

*** some of you people from other areas of the country - are your states as nasty as NH as far as sharing opportunities with new hunters in your area? ***

As for hunting your coyotes, no, I think I will pass.  You have over hunted them severely and what you knew about them in September and October has changed drastically because of the deep snow.  You now have no clue what they are doing or where they are going.  It's pointless.  The best thing you could do right now is strap on some boots and snow shoes and go see where they are.  It might take a couple weeks, but once you find what they are doing, where they are living, you will be able to hunt them every time we get deep snow like this.  And come spring and early fall, if you do the same thing, you will be able to hunt them for years from the same spot as long as you dont do anything to disrupt their normal life in the woods.  The minute they know you are after them, they are going to change what they do.  Just the way it is.  You can argue the point, but it's still true.

AL
 

We do this every time we go out and I'll be out again Saturday doing more scouting. 

[HaMeR]

*** some of you people from other areas of the country - are your states as nasty as NH as far as sharing opportunities with new hunters in your area? ***

Yes & no.

NO-- I know a couple fellas that put a ton of work into their deer hunting. They hunt year round so to speak & are rewarded nicely for it. They don't like others reaping their rewards.

NO--I don't tell folks where I turkey hunt either. I'm not that good at it & I've beat pavement to get what I have.

YES-- If you want to coyote hunt then I'll take you to public ground that has coyotes but not to my private land. No offense here intended but I had to work to get most of my nearly 10,000 acres of private land & I only trust a person after having been around him/her for a while.

YES-- If you want to rabbit hunt we have 10's of thousands of stripmined public acreage with abundant rabbit populations.

If you think NH is tuff,, try going over to CrowBusters.com &  asking for a place to crow hunt. They DO NOT reveal their prime locations & for a very good reason.

Please don't feel I'm jumping on you with this reply. Being a new fella in town has got to be tough in so many different ways. I liken it to your children & how their lifestyle was upset when you moved & had to leave their school & Friends behind. Thats where you're at now. It's tough but just keep pounding & hounding Omega!! All it takes is one farmer to talk to his Farmer Friends about how well you respect his land & his Family & things will take off for you. Best of Luck with these coyotes & your hunting adventures!!

[Omega47]

I don't think you're jumping on me.  I'm just curious how it is in other parts of the country.  My only experience before coming to NH was varmint hunting in CA and TX and it was a totally different culture where I was before - much more social and friendly.  I never realized how competetive it is in other parts of the country. 

Seriously, if people weren't asking me to go somewhere, I'd just say "Man, we ought to go shoot some -- fill in the blank -- tomorrow".  In a matter of minutes I'd have a half dozen people making suggestions of spots to try and putting together plans to get together for breakfast and go.  I can't imagine that ever happening here in NH. I guess I was spoiled 

[Troy Walter]

omega 47 here in the east we don't have the land that the hunters out west have.And most of the east hunters have worked hard over the years to get the land we hunt.And I personally well not take the chance of taking someone to the many farms that I have  permission to hunt with the fear of losing that land.