Byron South seminar

Jimmie in Ky · January 09, 2008, 06:54:14 PM

My local deer hunters have taken a turn for the worse I guess. Talked to another kid today that took two on his family farm. With most groups running from five to six animals that's a pretty hard hit to the one group. Another group lost the alpha pair and one pup within 30 minutes opening morning. Out of 3 groups around me only one was not touched by deer season. I wonder how many of your rural landowners are doing the same and it's not reported. And I am hearing about th same thing from neighboring counties and other parts of this one. They took a lot of animals this year here.

But in your area there may be a number of things slowing the population growth. Disease comes to mind as one of the most likely culprits. Parvo or distemper killed a heck of a lot of pups in the LBL last year. A talk with you local vet will tell you if this is a problem in your area. They have been treating a lot of dogs here the last two years for these.

The growing population of humans in the country is getting to be one of my biggest PIA. New houses are popping up all over the place and usually right in a travel lane. Keeps them moving and changing habits from one year to the next.Makes it very hard to kep up with what group is where and or finding them after th move. I haven't had the time to get out this year as much as I would like. Only been out five times myself. My average is shot to hell too

Jimmie

Jrbhunter · January 09, 2008, 07:20:04 PM

Quote from: George Ackley on January 09, 2008, 06:04:44 PM
Jimmy,
there are over 1 million hunters ,,, more like 1.4 million guys out in the woods here in PA and I would bet no Moore then 125 coyotes are shot by non coyote hunter in that I mean , deer hunter , rabbit hunters , and bird hunters.

***********************************

Now I will tell you about my year of calling coyote in PA
I will estimate that have hunted 70 days this year for just coyote in PA,, I figure no less then 500 sets I called in 4 coyote
we killed 2 , wounded 1 got busted on 1 and I am shore there were many that busted me that I didn't see ,, but not that many.

George, those statistics really shocked me because I just got off the phone (an hour ago) with a guy from PA about him coming up to our Indiana Predator Challenge. We talked for about 25 minutes... he mentioned calling and killing several coyotes this year, this week actually, and he told me all about the big PA contest that allows both calling and hounding. He's actually the second person I've spoken too this week about the hunt, but we're booked.

Anyways, after hearing him talking about calling coyotes I found your statistics surprising. I did a little google search and found some information.

A 1990 survey indicated 850 coyotes were harvested by those persons buying a furtakers license.

A 1995 survey indicated the annual harvest of coyotes has tripled since the 1990 examination.

In 2005, hunters and trappers harvested more than 20,000 coyotes statewide, according to agency Game-Take and Fur-Taker Survey results. They can be found almost anywhere: from the suburban sprawl surrounding Philadelphia to the remote ridges of the Alleghenies. There are few areas remaining in the state where coyotes aren't found.

My question is, did you turn those 2 coyotes in to the PA GT & FT survey people in any way? I've seen numbers posted on several different states and I always wonder WHO TURNS THOSE IN?! Maybe some states require it... but I'd think those numbers are pretty weak if they're relying on a hunter to notify them somehow. Maybe I'm wrong... but if they confirmed 20,000 kills there were probably more like 50,000 harvested? I know they estimate another 15-20% worth of poaching on top of our legal whitetail harvest numbers- so I'm betting such casual (non-mandatory) reporting is a very lowball number.

George Ackley · January 09, 2008, 09:50:34 PM

jarbhunter

The big hunt here has over 4,000 hunter's in it for the 3 day hunt,,,, that's 4,000 participants , ,,,,

they kill like 120 coyotes pal, and like under 10 are called if that!!!

A 1990 survey indicated 850 coyotes were harvested by those persons buying a furtakers license.

question is how many furtakers lic, did they sell ???
we have 1.4 million guys in the field in PA?????? 850 FOR 12 MOUNTH DONT SOUND TO GOOD
know take a guess how many were call to there deaths out of that 850

A 1995 survey indicated the annual harvest of coyotes has tripled since the 1990 examination.

2,500 COYOTES ,, I.4 MILLION hunters still not sounding so good

and the % of called in one out of them numbers

In 2005, hunters and trappers harvested more than 20,000 coyotes statewide

Trapers - is the key word in the sentince...we have are trapper we do

As for numbers you are reading... I haven't got a clue

were do they get them but

it may be the same place they get there deer numbers from,,

plain fly's around see's 5 deer in the field, its a 20 Acer's field so there's 1 deer per 5 Acers in the state :roflmao: :roflmao:

As for Game-Take and Fur-Taker Survey must be a trappers thing this is the first i hurd of them or it...

BUT i am to bisy off in the woods doing this

to myself to know anybody

George

George Ackley · January 09, 2008, 10:02:45 PM

here are some statistics,,, this is way off topic

Pennsylvania's Hunters and Anglers Have a Significant Impact on the Economy Spending $3.5 Billion a Year

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Pennsylvania's 1.4 million hunters and anglers are among the most prominent and influential of all demographic groups, spending more than $3.5 billion a year on hunting and fishing, according to a new report.
The new report, "Hunting and Fishing: Bright Stars of the American Economy ~ A force as big as all outdoors," spotlights the immense impact hunters and anglers have on the economy at the national and state level.

Links: Pennsylvania Fact Sheet

http://www.nssf.org/07report/factsheets/Pennsylvania.pdf

Compare Pennsylvania with Other States

http://www.nssf.org/07report

In Pennsylvania, spending by hunters and anglers directly supports 51,000 jobs, which puts $1.7 billion worth of paychecks into pockets of working residents around the state. Of course, government coffers also benefit -- spending by sportsmen in pursuit of these outdoor activities generates $371 million in state and local taxes.

These latest figures demonstrate that season after season hunters and anglers are driving the economy from big businesses to rural towns, through booms and recessions.
"Because sportsmen enjoy hunting or fishing alone or in small groups, they are overlooked as a constituency and as a substantial economic force," stated Jeff Crane, president of the Congressional Sportsmen's Foundation. "When you compare spending by hunters and anglers to other sectors, their impact on the state's economy becomes more tangible."
Sportsmen support more jobs in Pennsylvania than Penn State University and the Philadelphia Airport combined (51,000 jobs vs. 45,000).

Annual spending by Pennsylvania sportsmen is more than the revenues of York-based BonTon Stores ($3.5 billion vs. $3.1 billion).

Annual spending by Pennsylvania sportsmen is more than the cash receipts from dairy products, cattle, greenhouse/nursery, mushrooms and broilers - the state's top five grossing agricultural commodities ($3.5 billion vs. $3.1 billion).

Pennsylvania sportsmen spend $104 million anually on outboard boats and engines to get out on the water and around the rivers for fishing and hunting.

Pennsylvania sportsmen outnumber the combined populations of Allentown, Erie, Pittsburgh, Reading, and Scranton, two to one (1.4 million vs. 680,297).

More Pennsylvania residents hunt and fish each year than attend Pittsburgh Pirates and Philadelphia 76ers games combined (1.4 million vs. 1.3 million).

The economic stimulus of hunting and fishing equates to an astounding $9.6 million a day being pumped into the state's economy.

"Spending by sportsmen benefits not only the manufacturers of hunting and fishing related products, but everything from local mom and pop businesses to wildlife conservation," noted Doug Painter, president of National Shooting Sports Foundation. "And because most hunting and fishing takes place in rural areas, much of the spending benefits less affluent parts of the state."

On the national level, 34 million sportsmen age 16 and older spent more than $76 billion in 2006, supporting 1.6 million jobs. If a single corporation grossed as much as hunters and anglers spend, it would be among America's 20 largest, ahead of Target, Costco and AT&T. And if all hunters and anglers had voted during the last presidential election, they would have equaled 31 percent of all votes cast. If all hunters and anglers living in Pennsylvania voted, they would have equaled 38 percent of all votes cast in the state.

These statistics are impressive and, if anything, they underestimate the impact of sportsmen since they do not take into account the millions of hunters and anglers under 16 years of age or people who were not able to get out and hunt or fish in 2006. When sportsmen's spending is thought of in business terms and compared to other sectors of the economy, it is quite remarkable. From small rural towns scattered across our country's landscape to the bottom-line of Fortune 500 companies located in major cities, if you take away hunting and fishing you take away the equivalent of a multi-billion dollar corporation.

"It is a fairly simple equation – hunters and anglers mean jobs in states and local communities that have made the effort to maintain their hunting and fishing opportunities," said Crane. "The economic impacts that sportsmen have on state economies should be a wake-up call to state governments to welcome and encourage hunting and fishing in their state."

The report, "Hunting and Fishing: Bright Stars of the American Economy ~ A force as big as all outdoors," was produced by the Congressional Sportsmen's Foundation with support from the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, National Marine Manufacturers Association, National Shooting Sports Foundation and SCI - First For Hunters. The report uses the results from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service's 2006 National Survey of Fishing, Hunting and Wildlife-Associated Recreation and statistics provided by the American Sportfishing Association and Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies.

The report: "Hunting and Fishing: Bright Stars of the American Economy ~ A force as big as all outdoors" along with STATE FACTS are available on the Web at
http://www.sportsmenslink.org and http://www.nssf.org

For more information or questions contact: Melinda Gable 202-302-4794 or at Melinda@sportsmenslink.org mailto: Melinda@sportsmenslink.org

###

About CSF
CSF is the most respected and trusted hunting and fishing organization in the political arena. With support from every major hunting and fishing organization, CSF is the leader in promoting sportsmen's issues with elected officials. CSF works directly with the bi-partisan, bi-cameral Congressional Sportsmen's Caucus in the U.S. Congress, as well as affiliated state sportsmen's caucuses in state legislatures around the country.

About NSSF

The National Shooting Sports Foundation is the trade association for the shooting, hunting and firearms industry whose purpose is to provide trusted leadership in addressing industry challenges. NSSF concentrates efforts on measurably advancing participation in and understanding of hunting and the shooting sports; reaffirming and strengthening their members' commitment to the safe and responsible use of their products; and promoting a political climate supportive of America's traditional firearms rights.

The full report in short easy to read format. Fun and fact filled.

http://www.nssf.org/07report/CompleteReport.pdf

Pennsylvania Hunting Stats

http://www.nssf.org/07report/factsheets/...221198363030685

Pennsylvania Spending - National Ranking

http://www.nssf.org/07report/compare.cfm

Pennsylvania Days Afield

http://www.nssf.org/07report/compare.cfm

George Ackley · January 09, 2008, 10:10:46 PM

the big coyote hunt you are talking about sorry i was off on the amount called in

COYOTE HUNT 2007

Feb. 16,17,18, 2007
3,880 Registered Hunters

78 TOTAL COYOTES

$31,040.00 Total Prize Money

1st - $7,760.00 2nd.- $4,656.00 3rd. $3,104.00

$15,520.00 Divided among all coyotes brought in. - $198.97 each

1 st Place – ( # 74) Chris Haines 47.30 lbs.

2nd Place - (# 60) Bob Hendrickson 46.35lbs.

3rd Place - (# 28) Nick Greer 45.45lbs.

Dogs -----46

Calls------25

Tracking- 6

Sitting - 1

COUNTIES
Clearfield - 10 Elk -2 Carbon -1
Montour - 6 Indiana -2 McKean -1

Bradford - 5 Washington- 2 Columbia -1

Warren - 5 Erie -2 Venango -1

Mercer - 4 Potter -2 Northhampton -1

Erie - 4 Cambria -1 Fayette -1

Centre - 4 Jefferson -1 Clinton -1

Greene - 3 Blair -1 Allegheny -1

Luzerene - 3 Synder -1 Sullivan -1

Crawford - 2 Franklin -1 Clarion -1

Susquehanna - 2 Bedford -1 Lawarence -1

McKean - 2 Forest -1

why don't all the western big names show up when theres money like this to be had $31,040.00 these coyotes are the same as there's

bigben · January 10, 2008, 06:08:36 AM

they get most of their numbers from surveys they send out. I got my first last year. a buddy of mine gets one every year. it goes off the furtakers liscense's they send out a precentage. then when they get back the forms even it out.

Frogman · January 10, 2008, 08:43:51 AM

Hey guys I have not had much time at the computer for a few days. I was a little surprised at some of the responses to my review of the Byron South seminar on Jan. 6 in Pittsburgh. I am new to coyote hunting. I have only done 86 stands since March of 2007. I am trying to learn as much as I can from any source I can find. I have subscribed to Predator Xtreme magazine, I Googled coyote hunting on the Internet, and I have questioned anyone I could find who seemed to know something about hunting coyotes. It's tough. There is just not much reliable info available. The Internet seems to have the most information. Forums like this one have been a big help. The more experienced members of this forum have patiently answered my newbie questions in a very helpful way. When I learned that a very experienced coyote hunter was doing a seminar 3 hours from me I was excited about the opportunity to attend. As stated in my review above I was impressed with the seminar. Much of the information was familiar to me from other sources like this forum. People learn in different ways. Hearing Byron say some of the things I had already read kind of reinforced them for me. Having someone explain the wind and thermals the way he did clarified it in my mind. Being exposed to the information does not mean you have learned it. Eventually as I gain more experience, read more of the posts on the forums, talk to more experienced hunters, I hope to become a better and more successful coyote hunter. I am thankful to all the sources who have contributed information to me thus far. With the review of Byron's seminar I was hoping to contribute something back to this forum that might be of interest to some of you who have been helping me so much. I was not aware of any previous controversy. I enjoyed the seminar and learned from it. I will continue to try to absorb as much information as I can from any source who will put up with me. I expect a lot of it will come from this forum.

Jim

THO Game Calls · January 10, 2008, 11:27:47 AM

Just about all you need to know about BS can be found on Huntmasters. Go back a year and a half and take a look at some of the 20 page threads over there.

I agree with George. You don't see many big names coming to hunt in the east. Even the e caller companies test their products out west, even though one of them is located here in the east.

I can read a book and regurgitate what I've read, but that wont make me a practical expert on the subject.

It may be time for some of the "big shots" to put their money where their mouth is.

I was told a year or so ago by a pro staff member from one of the big e caller companies that the rankest member in his culb could kill more coyotes in a weekend than a buddy of mine could in a season.

I invited him to come out here and stay with me for as long as he wanted. We would hunt as much as he wanted, and in the end, the rankest member of his club would have killed more coyotes in a weekend than he would have his entire stay. He not only declined, he agreed.

Al

RShaw · January 10, 2008, 12:05:20 PM

Pro Staff......Does Pro stand for promoter or prostitute??

Randy

Jrbhunter · January 10, 2008, 12:20:35 PM

I understand there are a lot of hunters in PA, and that their Mosquito Creek contest draws quite a crowd, I'm just saying there appears to be a substantial population of coyotes in the state. The number of "over 20,000 harvested" was not an estimate... it was defined by the F&G. It might've been 22,000 or it might've been 54,500, but it was over 20,000. No arial estimations- the state F&G makes that claim as documented dead coyotes. That's a pretty fair number... although I cannot find documentation on other states, I have a feeling that's in the mid-range/high-range of the spectrum when you look East of the Mississippi. Sure, most of it was trappers... I'm not arguing about anyone's calling abilities here... it just seems there are some decent numbers in Pennsylvania these days.

I don't think anyone would come out and say hunting in the East is as productive as hunting in the West. Of course there are places in each hemisphere that contradict popular theories- such as coyote void areas in Milan Missouri and overloaded pockets in Springfield Illinois. The Midwest and Southeast seem to have pretty strong numbers and a growing number of succesful callers- the Northeast continues to struggle with low populations and subsequently fewer (consistantly) succesful hunters. Anyone that argues these facts are just self-concious about their own lack of success or too blind to see the problems others face.

Populations naturally rise and fall every 4-6 years in each region I hunt. Right now we're on the high end of the spectrum in my "core area" and I've called well over 100 coyotes in four months. I'm heading 300 mile north tomorrow and slowly hunting my way back.... testing the populations of regions in Northern, Northwestern, East Central and West Central Indiana as well as dabbling in West Central Ohio. I'll then focus two more calling trips next month on whichever area produces best: that's the most efficient way to kill big numbers no matter where you live. With the assistance of the rut and some late dispersal I can still dig up coyotes in my core area on a pretty regular basis... but I'm certain a couple of those other regions will be more productive.

If you think hunting half a dozen farms within 10 mile of your home is going to consistantly produce big numbers of coyotes in any state: you're dreaming. Big numbers takes big country, in Wyoming/California/Indiana/Alabama or Vermont. More ground, more time in the woods, more coyotes in the truck. Hunting the same unsuccesful stand 16 times is not hunting hard... it's hunting dumb. (Not directed at anyone: just a common misconception amongst folks who have low populations) You gotta know when to walk away... and know when to run.

Silencer · January 10, 2008, 01:49:36 PM

Quotethey get most of their numbers from surveys they send out. I got my first last year. a buddy of mine gets one every year. it goes off the furtakers liscense's they send out a precentage. then when they get back the forms even it out.

Didnt know they did that. Thanks, I never got one.

keekee · January 10, 2008, 02:36:10 PM

QuoteI was a little surprised at some of the responses to my review of the Byron South seminar on Jan. 6 in Pittsburgh. I am new to coyote hunting. I have only done 86 stands since March of 2007. I am trying to learn as much as I can from any source I can find.

Your doing fine! That's the right way to go about learning to hunt Coyotes! And if you keep after it, they will come!

This Eastern debate thing has been going on sense I been on the enet. And it will go on after I'm gone for sure. I have hunted East and West and so have allot of these guys. And there are very hard areas to call and kill Coyotes even in the West. But on a day to day run the west just has more Coyotes, hands down!

On weather BS can come here and call Coyotes. He probably can and there are Western Coyote hunters that would kill Coyotes here other than him. I know some have, they hunted here with me. And there are places were hunting out there is the West is like hunting here in the East. But all this boils down to is numbers!

But Eastern TX is not EAST! I don't care what kind of numbers they have or what the terrain is. Its still Eastern TX!

BS can call Coyotes and kill Coyotes. And given enough land here or in the East he could kill them here. Big numbers, I don't know but he could kill Coyotes.

Just remember these guys are here to learn, you can learn allot from allot of different ways, and people. Not all Eastern hunters hunt a like and not all Western hunters hunt the same. Take what you can get from anyone who will help you and use what you can to learn and adapt what you can to your area.

I learned allot about Coyotes from hunting out West. I could watch them and see them from along ways off. I learned thing about them that I could not even see here do to the timber.

Brent

HaMeR · January 10, 2008, 04:06:21 PM

JRB-- I'm in East Central Ohio right along I77. I will be working all day Friday & Bill & I are going to hunt a WMA near Coshocton Saturday AM. If things work out you are invited along. Well,, that's if we're on your line of travel tho.

But you're Welcome to join us!!

possumal · January 10, 2008, 04:10:43 PM

Frogman: I agree with Brent on this one 100%. You are taking the right approach. Watch the videos, attend the seminars, read the books, and read the posts, but above all, digest what you learn from the best teacher of all, Old Wylie himself.

Jimmie in Ky · January 10, 2008, 04:31:30 PM

[

I learned allot about Coyotes from hunting out West. I could watch them and see them from along ways off. I learned thing about them that I could not even see here do to the timber.

Brent
[/quote]

Brent, wouldn't you say that what you saw out there confirmed what you were thinking about eastern coyote's movements?

One of the things you and I both have told newbies is to pay attention to the coyote they see in the video and how and where it moves across the ground. I know that without all the darned trees it is hard to comprehend what they are seeing, but the travel habits are the same. Jimmie

FinsnFur · January 10, 2008, 05:31:52 PM

Dont take any of this personal Frogman. These guys here surely are not going to hold anything against you. They will continue to answer your questions the best they can just as Byron would.

But as you can tell Byron isn't very popular here. To be honest he hasn't been since the site was launched and the biggest reason for that is the majority of the members that helped launch this site, knew Byron first hand and all too well, I might add.

I certainly do not blame you for going over to see the show, and I'd bet my left arm these guy aren't either. We just know that we'd never be seen at one

and like I said....it's absolutely nothing against you my friend.

Rich Higgins · January 11, 2008, 08:57:36 AM

Hi Frogman, I've known Byron for many years and spent some time in his company. Last August we both attended Bass Pro's grand opening in Mesa as exhibitors. As my son and I set up our booth, before the doors were opened to the public, Byron and one of his buddies came to our table and Byron informed me that I was not his friend, he did not want me to bother him, to stay away from his seminar. His face was beet red, a vein was throbbing in his forehead and he was spitting all over me as he shouted at me. The other exhibitors were standing and staring with shocked looks on their faces. The rep from NRA at the next booth told me that he was going to file a formal complaint with Bass Pro management about the Foxpro staff's behavior.
Byron's first seminar was a little later that morning. Naturally I had to wander down to see what Byron wanted to keep me from. I sat down in the center chair three rows back from Byron, about fifteen people scattered around. Still early Sat morn. Byron hestitated a moment and swallowed several times and then continued without missing a beat. His presentation was professionally formulated, well practiced and polished. The information was solid and basic and directed at Fox Pro's target audience. As he relaxed his personality emerged and he connected with the audience. It was very well done and Byron is undoubtedly Foxpro's greatest public relations asset.
Frogman, if you have the opportunity to attend another Foxpro seminar by all means do so. The social climate at these things is always fun and anyone fairly new to the sport will always learn something.

browning204 · January 11, 2008, 09:01:29 AM

Quote from: THO Game Calls on January 08, 2008, 09:27:12 PM
Actually, the first verified coyote in NH was taken in 1944.

Prior to the 1800's, there are no reports of coyotes ever being in NH.

Al

as I said, for what it is worth.

browning204 · January 11, 2008, 09:07:55 AM

But can YOU alter a coyotes behaviour Rich? He will be the judge!

securpro · January 11, 2008, 10:05:43 AM

Rich,

I dont get it..... Why would you be a threat to his seminar? What did you do to him? IMO even the most knowledgable and best speaking coyote hunter in the world doesnt mean chit if you dont have good people skills......

I have seen his seminar and its a good one.. but it doesnt change the fact that he is an asshole at heart.... just the way I see it.