Incident at the EXPO

Uncle Jay · August 26, 2008, 10:28:07 PM

George,
I started out to say WV but couldn't spell Virginy, then decided Pennsylvia was harder so I stopped at plain old PA and hit enter.

JD,
No beer, no deal. Tell your wife I'll buy a case of marmalaid if she buys the beer.

Damn! Lots of hard spellin' words in this post.

George Ackley · August 26, 2008, 10:32:24 PM

George,
I started out to say WV but couldn't spell Virginy, then decided Pennsylvia was harder so I stopped at plain old PA and hit enter.

See that right there I can understand,, I have been known to use my spell check and just take what ever word is the closest sounding to what I am looking for and use it

canine · August 26, 2008, 10:45:02 PM

OK...Just make sure the empties find the trash can

After we kill a few Ohio Coyotes, we'll tour PA and WV

What is marmalaid anyhow? Never heard of it...will it put her in a better mood?

JD

keekee · August 26, 2008, 11:24:47 PM

Hey Jay,

As long as we are staying at JD's I will buy the BEER!....lol

But you better come before it gets cold or we will never get you out of the house!

I can put money on the line that if she cooks, It will be some of the best eating you ever had!

If you stay at my house some you can leave the beer cans anywere you want and we will order pizza but it will still be cold....lol

Brent

Uncle Jay · August 26, 2008, 11:33:51 PM

JD,
I meant apple butter.

Brent,
Start scouting some of the bigger parking lots.
I never meant to divulge my secret hot spots but it's in the open now.

edit:
BTW, I meant to say I enjoyed tipping a few with you two.
Also if JD starts practicing that schoolgirl scream, I'm pretty sure he'd win it next year.

alscalls · August 27, 2008, 05:04:39 AM

:roflmao:

FinsnFur · August 27, 2008, 05:27:34 AM

Quote from: Uncle Jay on August 26, 2008, 11:33:51 PM

Start scouting some of the bigger parking lots.

golfertrout · August 27, 2008, 01:45:44 PM

PA is alot like WV as far as lay of the land, just like the eastern part of Ohio. I would love to see some western hunters come out in the east and see how they fair. I am sure they would not kill the numbers they do out west. You look at alot of videos and most are from out west and you see wide open country. Brent Saxton made an Eastern video and I think gives a little view on the eastern yote but how many other vids have you seen on the eastern yote? Not many i am sure. I am pretty sure that Brent or I could come out west and kill the numbers you all do.

Rprince · August 27, 2008, 02:07:21 PM

golfertrout,

I've thought a lot about this topic. I wouldn't say that I could go out west & kill coyotes like anybody else, as a matter of fact I would probably be lost for a little while until I could study the land & know how to use it for my benefit. After I put in my time I would like to think that I could hang in there with anybody, but it would be a learning experience for me.

As far as killing coyotes in my area, I can honestly say that I kill as many if not more than the other hunters. Now you take a guy from another area & put him on my turf he would have a hard time........Until he put in his scouting time & learned how to hunt in my location.

It all in how serious you are about killing dogs, sure there are areas that would be easier than others but I don't think it would be a walk in the park just to be a western hunter.

I sure would like to take a trip out there (to some good areas) to see for myself though!

golfertrout · August 27, 2008, 02:26:56 PM

I had a buddy that went out west elk hunting, he shot his elk and spent the rest of his days hunting coyotes, he shot 4 coyotes and has never coyote hunted until going out west. He told me he seen all kinds of coyotes out there so you tell me is it easier out west.

Rprince · August 27, 2008, 02:36:03 PM

What part of "the west" are we talking about? I'm sure there are areas that are hot spots but I doubt there are as many as people think.
I see too many people from "out west" that make post's asking for help to beleive it is that easy everywhere past the Mississippi.

I plan on taking a trip to to a western state in the next year or two, I hope it's as easy as everybody says it is.

Uncle Jay · August 27, 2008, 03:29:50 PM

In all honesty I would think I'd have terrible luck back East for several reasons.

Out West I get to go pretty much wherever I want and am not restricted by making do with what's available.
If I am not running into coyotes, I simply jump in the truck and drive 20, 30 or more miles, get out and start calling again.
It's easy to do several times in a single day and Bingo! You eventually run into pockets of coyotes.
The numbers out West are much greater than East. I don't know by what percentage but I'd imagine it's BIG. That alone reduces the odds significantly for coyote/human encounters back East.
I never bought in to the smart/dumb arguments because it's just a dog. There's dumb ones and not so dumb ones wherever you go. Some are easy and some are not. Just ask any trapper.
The desert areas in AZ makes it easier because you call towards the pockets of thicker vegetation instead of everything being thick. It's easier to figure out where they might be. There are areas in AZ that is every bit as thick as back east and you know what? There are coyotes there too BUT it's harder to get decent numbers unless you know where they are.
I grew up in NE Oklahoma and there are places so thick you can't get through so when I was young we resorted to calling two-tracks, cow trails and fields with shotguns. That went for deer as well.

I think the bottom line is that success is measured by how hard you work to achieve realistic goals you set whether it's one coyote or 100 coyotes during a season.

So.... With that said.... Are Eastern Coyotes Smarter? Nope.... They're the same. Only the hunters aren't so bright.....That's a joke guys. It's only a joke. Barrack Obama paid me to say that.

canine · August 27, 2008, 04:12:34 PM

Jay, Id like to add to that, coyotes out in your part of AZ are actually harder to shoot. With all the mesquite bushes and draws they hit coming in and then many times pooof, there one is, takes ya by surprise. Then as they usually do, just as here in the east, they head downwind.

JD

Bopeye · August 27, 2008, 04:34:35 PM

Being from the panhandle area of Nebraska and also having lived in Northeastern Wyoming and and Northwestern Kansas I can say that hunting coyotes there is different. I got lucky in October when I went back there and called in five or six coyotes in as many stands, but I positioned myself in areas that my cousins had said there were coyotes. You still have to use your mind and hunt them. I saw one crossing a freshly tilled field, but he seemed to be more of the exception than the rule. The ones I called were coming out of thick, brush choked ravines and creek bottoms, which is very similar to where they are coming out on me right now here in Tennessee. Only difference was being able to see them a little easier out there. They were still heading to the downwind and also checking up just like our coyotes do.

Hopefully I'll be heading back out there again this fall to see Grandma. This time I will bring my own stuff and I will KILL some.

Rprince · August 27, 2008, 04:56:38 PM

Quote from: Uncle Jay on August 27, 2008, 03:29:50 PM

I think the bottom line is that success is measured by how hard you work to achieve realistic goals you set whether it's one coyote or 100 coyotes during a season.

Jay, you pretty much summed it up.
I would like to think that if you had the tiime to study your areas you would be a good hunter, even in the east. The coyotes are here, but you have to work a little harder to find & kill em.

Uncle Jay · August 27, 2008, 05:58:07 PM

Rprince,
I can't argue that a bit.
There are areas here that if I put in a little more leg-work and tried a little harder, I could bag a nice 4X4 instead of my typical 2X3 mulie.
If I walked over two extra ridges I could prossibly get an extra coyote or two or three.
Same with canyons up nothern AZ. If I worked a little harder my successes would be a little greater.

Rprince · August 27, 2008, 07:04:34 PM

Jay,
I'm sure this varies A LOT between callers but what consists of a good year for a caller in your area? I'm not really talking about somebody that does it for a living, I'm talking about your better than average caller that is serious about predator calling.

I'm curious as to what I compare a good year in the east & what you would say is a good year in the west.
Thanks

Uncle Jay · August 27, 2008, 09:08:20 PM

Rprince,
Skip to the bottom for your answer.
I've been a weekend hunter most of my life. Like most all of you I am married and have children and now grandchildren. A whole herd of them.
A good year would be to sneak away part or some part of 20 weekends. Deer hunting always included predator calling as did elk and any other hunting trip.

Now... With that said the first ten years of calling was as a teenager, discovering girls, high school, getting into the workforce, 3 years of college, discovering girls, and finally a real paying job and discovering girls. AND IN OKLAHOMA TOO!. During those impressionable years I averaged somewhere slightly over a dozen coyotes a year plus a few strays and a boatload of pigeons and barn cats.

At age 25 I moved to AZ. The first 6 months here I did not hunt because I was considered nonresident but I travelled all over the state.
6 months after I moved to AZ, I bought a hunting licence and have consistently taken between 30 and 40 coyotes a year. That's coyotes I called and took myself. You can probably double that number for the ones taken that I called and someone else took or sat on a stand holding my gun while someone else did all the calling and shooting. You can double the total number of coyotes taken and that would give you a rough estimate of the total number called. Add another percentage for the coyotes we never knew we called. Probably a bazillion.

There's not a coyote behind every bush out here in Arizona like some folks believe. When I moved to AZ it was more like every 4th bush. Since then it has dwindled to about every 12th bush.

Now those 30 to 40 coyotes every year to a dramatic hit when I first picked up a video camera. The numbers were still the same but I wasn't doing as much calling and shooting. The total take went down because when filming, one has to violate virtually every sensible rule of hunting there is in order that others can enjoy your hunt without being there.

In the late 70's, after having scouted properly for coyote pockets we could expect for a team of two hunters to go out at first light until dark and see no less than 11 shootable coyotes every day. "Shootable" means in range standing still. anything less than 11 was a bad day. We didn't always come home with 11. Most of the time it was 6. There were days when we were skunked, but it all seemed to average out to that eleven number.

Nowadays I expect to see no less than 4 shootable coyotes during a full day. There are places we can get nine coyotes in a day to day and 1/2 but then we move on to the less productive areas because we have to let the good area build back up.

Equating in MPC I average one coyote per 85 miles of driving or 85 miles per coyote.

OK.. I had to go back and read what the question was since I got to rambling on.

Any good caller in Arizona should get at least 2 to 4 coyotes per day.
Any good caller should know where not to hunt. The more "where not to hunt areas" you learn helps you to become a better caller.
Even a bad sounding caller can bag more coyotes than a good caller if he knows where the coyotes are.

Son-uv-a-gun. I just found the spell checker button. Cool.

edit to add:
The only night hunting allowed in AZ is for coon and not from any vehicle.
Everything is daylight hunting.
I couldn't imagine what a zoo it would be if night calling were allowed.

Rprince..... 4.
4 per day is your answer.

Rprince · August 27, 2008, 10:38:21 PM

Jay,
Thanks a lot. I appreciate you taking the time to write that reply.

This past year I either killed or witnessed the killing of 25, I hunted quite a bit, but like you pointed out, I do have a wife & family that always comes first.
I don't know of anybody that kills any more coyotes in this area as a recreational hunter, we don't have "professional hunters" in this area & we never will. If someone has killed more than that in TN I am totally unaware of it.
Based on your reply I must say that the hunting is definately different in the west (or at least from TN to AZ). I hope that I get a chance to hunt in a predator rich environment like that in the future.

Thanks again for the reply

Golfertrout,
I guess I stand corrected!

keekee · August 28, 2008, 12:32:05 AM

Rprince,

Me and JD have spent a good amount of time out in the area Jay hunts and other areas out in AZ. As well as hunting with both Jay and Rich Higgins and Tyler and other local guys like Ray, Mike, and others.

The calling out there is not as easy as everyone might think. Those areas get pounded by club hunts and other callers. We hunted one area that we were put on and hunted it hard! Took two coyotes in a full day, only to find out they held a club hunt in that same area the weekend before. We found our selves scouting for coyotes even in AZ. Not like we do here but looking and reading the sign more to call in areas that held coyotes.

And we found ourselves changing up to shot guns and calling down in the cover to kill coyotes,or hunting shotgun only areas, and that sucks for video reasons! But like Jay says there just is not a coyote behind every bush like some think.

Jays giving you strait numbers for sure, the calling out there can be tough if you don't have a locked gate area to hunt. But can also be awesome if your in a area that holds coyotes!

Brent