Predator Hunting Question

[FinsnFur]

So you finally got on, welcome aboard

[Jimmie in Ky]

I use them when they will do me some good Hillbilly. Beginers don't need to put their whole attention on howls as the end all and be all. There are other sounds that will do them more good to start with while they are learning coyote habits and behaviors. There are many beginers out there trying to howl and they are making huge mistakes. Creating call shy animals is not in their best interest.

It is very plain your interest is totally wrapped around your selling howlers, not in the interest of the begining hunter. I would suggest you not insult me any further. Jimmie

[wvhillbillyhowler]

 i back down from no man my intent is not to sell howlers i give the sonof guns away and  show men how to use them did you know you can make call shy dogs with destrees were there are few dogs and more game howles work better I promise you ITHINK YOU WERE INSULTING ME IT DONT BOTHER ME IM A BIG BOY    THE NEXT HOWLER WILL BE GIVEN TO A MEMBER ON FNF if anyone out there has trouble howling with any howler contact me I WILL HELP YOU LIKE I SAID BEFORE SOME MEN CANT US A HOWLER SOME NEVER WILL SOME I CAN HELP SOME I CANT BUT HOWLING IS AVERY POWERFUL TOOL LEARN IT USE IT 

[KySongDog]

 

[Hidehunter]

 :roflmao: @ Semp

[Frogman]

       wvhillbillyhowler is a big proponent of howling.  I have known him for quite a while and he has worked with me quite a bit on trying to improve my howling with limited success.  That limited success is more due to my difficulty picking up new skills than it is with his teaching abilities.  He is really good at the howling and has used it effectively out West as well as here in the East.  When I recently purchased one of his horn howlers he spent at least an hour helping me get the sounds right.   A few nights later I used his howler and my improved howling skills to call in three coyotes to within 50 yards.  Problem was they were across a creek with lots of brush along the banks.  We even got up and moved to a location where the shooter could see one of the coyotes.  But because I had not loaded the gun properly all he got when he pulled the trigger was a, "CLICK".  My fault, not the calling or the howler's fault.  Instead I was amazed that the coyotes were so interested in the coyote vocalizations I was making that they stayed close by til we could move into position for a shot.
       I usually start most of my stands with distress sounds starting out quiet then getting louder as the stand progresses.  Then I usually finish the stand with some howls and some pup distress.  I'm starting to think that a little more howling might be more effective.  It couldn't be much worse considering the small amount of success I have had???  I plan to start some stands with a few howls then go to distress sounds.  I still consider myself to be new to hunting these coyotes and I'm open to learning from anyone who has suggestions.  Only thing I know for sure is, "You can't kill them from the recliner."

Jim

[alscalls]

"I plan to start some stands with a few howls then go to distress sounds."

Frogman,
Yet when I say that...... I am told how wrong I am......
I guess since I know so little I will just have to go practice all alone till I get it right.......
I am tired of being dismissed in my many years hunting experience......M2C

Jon,
I think you and Jimmie would like each other if yall met in person......he is a good fella and I have learned a lot from him on here as I have learned some from you in the feild.
I think yall are reading way to much into this....we all hunt different and we do not agree on everything......
One thing I do know is I have seen many things work as well as not work when it comes to a coyote....
and there are never any guarantees.
I woud hate to see to good hunters get off on the wrong foot.My 2 Cents

Jimmie,
Jon is aggressive at making howlers but I have seen him give away more than he has sold. I just needed to say that.

[Bills Custom Calls]

I kinda expected some different views on this subject But i really didn't want to see name calling and
some punches being thrown here

Jimmie I have learned alot from your posts and from the day we spent in the woods together.
and I still take what you have to say as knowledge

Jon I only know you from your posts and what Al and Frogman has told me I have no doubt that you can hunt coyotes and I will still take your posts as knowledge.

I doubt that you will find 2 people that hunt excatly alike so please lets keep the comments to hunting and helping me kill my first coyote

I have already called them in and got busted or no shot or just plain missed

Thank you

[Jimmie in Ky]

It is a fact that coyotes can become call shy to distress sounds. It is also an old tale that they do not become call shy to howlers. I have already seen it proven in my area that they do!! This  came about with the newest rage from Primos in the randy anderson series of tapes and calls.  

I also know of a pair of hunters that were proponants of coyote vocals only. They have had to change their tune somewhat since the primos tapes caused this influx of uneducated beginners. Through a lack of knowledge these beginers  have made many mistakes.
Not enough information is out there about coyote behaviors and habits. Folks tend to think of them like turkeys or deer and they definately do not react the same way.

Alscalls, one of my favorite series of sounds when it's needed is an old male lone howl wait for several minutes and do a couple of series of rabbit or bird distress. Follow this up after several minutes with kiyii's and grey fox distress sounds, whipped pup. Make darned sure they cannot get downwind of you.

And whipped pup will work better than howls for all coyotes, when used alone. It works on the same principal as the challenge howl and is much easier for any one to do correctly with little practice.

And a rule of thumb is to always set an ecaller down wind to slightly crosswind. Never set it up on your entry path. Yes you have to go and place it but you are drawingf the animals to a position off your trail where they will scent you for sure.

When you insult people you get what you ask for. Its as simple as that. Especially when it is intentional. Jimmie

[Bills Custom Calls]

Thans Jimmie

[wvhillbillyhowler]

insult people you better go back read it again you insulted me idont know were you got that i only howl go to my web you will find many dogs taken with my predator calls i told them men that when a dog howles back i do not go to distress i work the dogs with a howler  i have took many with distress in other states but here howls work better you hunt your way and i will hunt mine you drew first blood hillbilly not backing down you want my phone number its on my web   hillbilly will not be posting anything to try to help on here you need some help howling you can contact me i will be glad to help well got to get back to work somebody got free howler comeing 

[FinsnFur]

 

[HaMeR]

Jimmie-- Help me out here. I'm not sure you understand me & Bill or we/I don't understand you.    Here is a snap shot of where we were. The Blue is the truck. The brown is the path we took to the stand. We walked along the farm road for maybe 100yds. I set the e-caller along the side of the road at the top of a rise in the road(red X) then backtracked a couple yards to Bill. Then we walked thru the scrub bushes to a vantage point about 35yds above the road we expected them to come in on. The black is where they howled immediately. The white is where they howled from at the end & the green line is where the cow came running down to the farm road. The cow came running down after the last howls. I think they/it may have been coming to us then. The wind was in our face all the time. The easiest route for them to get downwind of us would have been to our right. Otherwise they would have had to go up a long hill & come a long ways around to get downwind of us. Do you still think we placed the e-caller wrong in this situation??     It just seemed like the best place for it with the wind in our face & all. I tell ya I just don't know what to do sometimes & that is excellent coyote ground.

And honestly I don't think it helped matters any when they lit up right away either. We were both totally  :shck: .  It kinda thru us for a loop as we weren't expecting that. 

[Bills Custom Calls]

Hey glen I cleaned up the pic a little

[HaMeR]

Thanks GIT!! 

[donny]

hold it, ho;d it, hold it!!! fellows there seems to be a disput on here between hillbilly and jimmie, i think jimmy has misunderstood what hillbilly has posted about educating coyotes with howls, that most people can't howl. what hillbilly means by this is most peoples teeth are not level there for they can not lock open reeds down to rails there for if you do not lock reed down to both rails you can not howl. howling takes alot of practice i know i am a student of his i had a primos howler that i could not howl on hillbilly makes special mouth pieces that anyone can howl on with very little practice. howls that do not sound like coyotes educate and do not produce dogs. he has made these mouth pieces for people all over the world, so if you have trouble with blowing one of his howlers he will make one for you that you can master. i hope this will clear this up.

[Jimmie in Ky]

Donnie, Hillbillies response in post fourteen was in direct response to my post above. Nothing said about folks and teeth problems there. The way it was written was a shot at me, not a generalization. If that was the way he intended it he should have explained it better.

And I agree that most people have problems with open reed calls because of that and th fact that many mouth pieces are not built so that all folks can use them. The primos calls are among the worst of the lot. It took me ten minutes to figure them out myself. If they are not positioned just right they won't howl for stuff !! The primos calls were built for Randy anderson and his style of calling . Not every one uses this style or has enough experience to learn to adapt to it.


Hammer, have you and Bill discussed this , looking at what you are showing me?  Have you thought about the possibiklity that the coyote saw or heard you set up? From what you show me it is no more than six to eigfht hundred yards from where you set up to where the coyote howled from.

Your choice was not really a bad one except for the fact that this is a regularly used farm road. They expect humans there on a regular basis and are watchuing for them. Given the winds you show me, there are three other setups in this farm.

The first is above your position at te end of the lane running north at the point of the woods there. You give te animals cover to come to you through that finger of woods.

Second is due south of the coyotes position where he first howled along that creek with the open pasture behind you. All the travel lanes come together at that point. The road , hte stream, and the woodsline coming from the north of it.

Third is on hte fencerow south of th coyotes last position you heard. For the same reasons I gave above plus you are closer to bedding grounds. And I would be within fifty yards of that corner.

That coyote was leaving and spooked the cow out into the open where the cow could manuver if it had to. Only one breed of cow will chase a coyote and that is a Brahman. That is why farmers want us to kill the coyotes that are chasing their cows. Stock killers are how I got into this bussiness in the first place. Note the straight line between where you first heard it and the last. Note how the animal stuck to the cover available. It had the cover to come to you by that road if it had not seen or heard something to tell it otherwise.

And one more position if I were hunting this farm at night. See that lone tree out on the hill in the pasture?

Forgot something. Always expect an answer to your howls if your hunting early in the morning. They are still comfortable the first hour or so and will often answer.Not always within that short a time frame but they answer a good deal of the time. I use it to find out if I am ahead of them or behind them on th way to th bedding area.Jimmie

[Bills Custom Calls]

Jimmie
We have talked about this When we we were done with the stand
And to show you that some of your teachings didn't go in one ear and out the other

After we were done calling and we were certian the coyote ran up the holler (his safe zone  )
I did tell Glen that we maybe should have called this holler from the other end.Meaning the fence row or even
deeper in the big woods.

It was just a guess when I said the coyote responded about 300 yards in front of us,the fence row where the white x is was no more then 800 to 900 yards  in front of us.

On the way back to the truck we stopped to just look and talk a bit I told Glen that we should do a stand in the
trees just from the truck but we had already exposed that area so we let it go this time

Thanks Jimmie

[HaMeR]

Thanks Jimmie. I appreciate your help. I've also been thinking it might have been better to call this place after about 9AM or an hour or so before dark too. The only problem is the wind is rarely right here. I'll keep working on these coyotes from time to time & sooner or later a dumb one has to stop in Bill's crosshairs. It's happened for me so I know it will happen for Bill. 

[Yotehntr]

   Jimmie as many times as I've seen you say that's a beginner mistake or your doing this or that all wrong... seems strange for you to get all bowed up when a fella says the same thing to you.  When you think your to good to try to learn something from someone... even if you don't agree with them, it's a guarantee you ain't going to learn any more.