Predator Hunting Question

[canine]

Bill, If you got a vocal response then I would have detemined what type of response it was. Your next move hinders on that knowledge. I see you said that coyotes tend to come straight to howling rather than circle way wide, that's not really the case. They tend to circle alot wider with howls than to distress sounds here for me. UNLESS it's a dominat pair that has established their territory! They will come in balls to the wall, dead set on kicking your ass!

I may have missed it but, what type of vocal response did you get? did it bark then howl? just a deep throaty howl with no bark? long drawn out mono toned howl?

JD

[Jimmie in Ky]

Yotehunter, I take no offense when someone thinks I am wrong and proceeds to discuss his reasons. That is how we learn from each other. When someone implies I or anyone else on this board is an idiot and know nothing, that is another story all together.

I happen to agree with canine about howling. In my experience a sure way to get a coyote to manuver down wind is to howl. Beginers are just startring to understand setup and make a lot of mistakes that hopefully they learn from.In the case abo0ve Bill and Hammer did not cut off the back door with an open area. They also used a place that was well known to the animals for human activity. I have learned the hard way that even permanant deer stands are a no no. That stand is almost always placed in the perfect spot for a setup , but the animals living there know tha humans use it and arre wary when they aproach. Their positive move was to give the coyote cover in front to aproach.

In all cases you have to try and cut off that back door aproach. Be it with distress or howling.Use th terrain or open areas to do this. Use that steep ridgeline . Get out on that long sloping point with steep sides. Take a few extra minutes and think about how a coyote aproaches things before you setup. That few minutes can mean the diference in having a fair chance at taking that animal.That coyote is not going to expend any more energy than it has too, nor is it going to expose itself if it has another way to aproach.

The diferences in howls is why I firmly believe that beginers are much better off using a distress sound that will piss of the coyote rather than howls. I don't have to worry about territories or other factors that may be involved. I am still picking that fight and they come right on in with their tails on fire if I have done my job with setup. Jimmie

[Hidehunter]

The diferences in howls is why I firmly believe that beginers are much better off using a distress sound that will piss of the coyote rather than howls. I don't have to worry about territories or other factors that may be involved. I am still picking that fight and they come right on in with their tails on fire if I have done my job with setup. Jimmie

I am a beginner, I have trapped them for years but have been reading up on the Eastern coyotes for about a year and hunting them just a few months.  I have been practicing my howling at home but as for 'knowing the language I do not'  I have a fox pro and have used a lone howl on a few stands but not to often as I really dont know what I am saying to them.  I have been using distress mainly.  I would like to learn the language and learn the howling techniques.  My question is what is the best way for me to do that without educating the coyotes?  Everything I know I've learned from FnF and Alscalls.  Theres nobody that lives close to me that hunts them that can show me anything so all I have is pretty much trial and error.  What do you recommend?

[Jimmie in Ky]

I just did a search for Rich cronks sound waves and found them on his website. http://www.cronkcalls.com

I can also highly recomend his calls to anyone. I have been using them for years now.

I don't know if Canine has his up or not, but he is a world class caller himself and can not only walk the walk but do th talk. He is as good or better than many I have heard in person. He uses and prefers the e.l.k mouth piece with latex reed. I also know his teacher and miss his presence here a good deal. As  a team they were two of the best coyote killers I know.

I have never said I don't believe in howling as a tool to an end. But it has it's place and time just like any other sound. Just don't get hung up on it as the end all and be all.Scouting and Setup are far more important than anything you do.

A quick and fast way for you to do and learn the whipped pup is to use the gray fox distress on your foxpro and do yipe , yipe , yipe or ki yi sounds with an open reed. Don't do them constant. Mix them in about 30 ro 40 seconds apart. Do this for two minutes and shut he r off a while. Then repeat it after two or three minutes.

[Bills Custom Calls]

JD
We started our stand with an interagation howl the response we got was about a 5 second howl if there was
a bark before the howl I didn't hear it cause the foxpro was still howling when the coyote started.

When I howled I gave 1 bark then about a 5 second howl and the respose I got was just as quick as we got when we opened the stand

[canine]

Bill, It's hard to really say without being there.

Heres what I do though with vocal responses whether it's a single coyote or a pack.

After they respond vocally I'll answer back and then let them dictate from there on out (to a point).

Usually if they shut up I'll sit in silence and watch for them heading downwind. After 5 to 10 minutes if I get no visual or another howl from them, I'll howl again. If they respond I repeat my first step. If they do not respond vocally, I will howl 3 to 4 times with different tones, pause for a minute or 2 then maybe throw out a coyote fight to them, still nothing I'll go to pup distress. More times it's the pup distress that they can't take and will come in.

JD

[CCP]

  Bill and Glen it sounds like you too had a great time whether you killed a coyote are not. There is no substitute for time in the field. These are the things that make us all better coyote hunters. I have had lots of stands not work out or second guess what I was doing.

Main thing is keep at it. What works for me on stand A doesn't mean it will work on stand B. Even on stands that work I still say things like " I wish I had done this or that" it's just part of coyote hunting. After all these years of coyote hunting I still learn and try new things.

I'm thinking she seen the coyote(s) & ran them/it off.

After all these years I still love hunting around cows. They have a way of letting me know a coyote is near before I do.(plus they allow me more movement) As far as the cow running off the coyote NO. A cow may detour a coyote a few yards but run it off from coming to a call NO. I have seen too many coyotes bed in cow pastures or sunning in cow pastures and observed and killed to many coyotes in with cows to even ponder the thought of a cow running a coyote off.

I have on several occasions through the years had a coyote howl in response to me. In most all those cases the coyotes sneak in real slow. A few came in fast and mad but most slow. To help incite a response I have barked and yelped and had them come on in. It has been studied that most coyotes that bark and yelp or some what skidish and are trying to make themselves feel comfortable. So by the barks and yelps it lets the coyote know there is another coyote present and it is more than likely not dominate. By continuing the barks and yelps it also adds to there curiosity.( maybe a scared dog)

Bottom line for me is if I feel  a coyote responded to me and was heading my way and I did not kill or have the opportunity to kill it then I setup wrong.

Canine and Jimmy-N-KY gave some good advice. Jimmy has been chasing coyote for a long, long time and so has Canine. JD and Brent Saxton are the greatest sounding coyote vocalist I have ever known with Rich Higgins and Tyler Higgins right on there heals. Stan and Brian are the greatest coyote vocal only hunters I have ever known.

I have tried howling alot and have given it several good runs. My success here was not as nearly as good as just staying with distress so I mostly stick to that. I do how ever always end my sets with barks and yelps and have had good success doing so in the past 5 years of doing that on every stand. Pup whines are always in season and works very well.

As I have always lived by the 3 S's Scouting, setup and sound and in that order.


  wvhillbillyhowler I understand your zeal in wanting to give your thoughts on the matter. I too as many others took offense to your......

most guys dont do well with howls is they cant howl bottom line

Does Howling work YES is it my highest percentage sound NO. I tend to go with my higher percentage sounds.


Just remember there are many new coyote hunters here on the forums but there are many 20 + year coyote hunting veterans here that will call bullshit.

[canine]

Thanks a bunch Rich and Jimmie    That means alot coming from you guy's.

JD

[HaMeR]

Thanks to everybody. I sure do appreciate your input on this & Thanks to Bill for being a good hunting partner & a better friend. 

[Bills Custom Calls]

Right back at ya Glen

[Hidehunter]

Real good Info from everybody.  I know I'm learning and appreciate it.