Howling the Hell out of them

[canine]

Little dog JD......   

No, I didn't shoot them, I had a bow in my hand, but I was damn sure tryin to lip squeek one into range I guess that shows breeding supercedes hunger  

I am no expert either but do enjoy my stays at Holiday Inn Expresses 




JD

[Gary in CA]

Hunting with Higgins over a period of four days, I discovered he uses maybe one short, submissive coyote vocalization, or maybe none, while calling to them on the average stand.   Otherwise, he pretty much sticks to a constant rotating repetoire of all distress sounds.  After a coyote shows up for the camera, it's a different story.  Higgins changes over and uses all coyote noises to get them to stick  around.  Standing there with my camera on a tripod, trying to get the perfect shot of Higgins misting a coyote a few yards in front of him, and never quite gettitng the perfect pose, it's very strange to have coyotes in three different directions barking back at you for 10-15 minutes.

After that experience with Higgins, and after watching more than a dozen visible coyotes retreat at any mention of a coyote vocalization during my own solo shotgun hunting adventures over the last two years, I've quit using any coyote sounds entirely, except an occasional coyote or pup distress after a kill shot, but even then I've become more inclined to switch right back to distress.  This season, since July 2, I just shot #50, and I've heard exactly one coyote before, during, or after the shot.  That coyote was barking, either at me, or looking to regroup with his partner, now laying dead a few feet in front of the caller.  Otherwise, I haven't heard a single thing from the coyotes I'm hunting, except a death cry.  Lack of vocalizations on their part hasn't kept my hunting success down.

I know that a lot of guys use howling as a part of their arsenal and I always enjoy your discussions of how it works in your part of the country.  However, in all my hunting situations here in Ca for the near future, I'm sticking entirely to distress sounds and won't be using any coyote sounds.  I'm also going to make every attempt to hunt again  for a full weekend with the Higginses in the immediate future, and I'll be the first to admit it if they convince me otherwise.

[bowjunkie]

this is some good reading    hey Gary when you gonna hook up with Rich I would love to be there 

Ed

[Greenside]

Sorry about the delay.  I had some issues with a blood clot in the leg and had a few doctor appointments and a couple of ultrasounds  yesterday.
 
Well obviously a regroup or some sort of assembly occurred, I just think the timing and the outcome are somewhat strange due to the sequence of events.
 
You have to make some assumptions that the first time you tried to locate, that the coyote that you really needed to hear the howls could actually hear them.  I think that is a very big factor in locating. Very possible that YOY were spread out and could hear you, but they usually will not initiate any howls at this time of year. And then the time frame from getting in the truck and moving that 1\2 mile, probably didn't take you too long but you have no idea if there was any communication in that time frame.  Some of the assembly howls  can be nothing more than a single howl.   ARrrrroh, and that's about it.

And then you get to the second place and howl again. My experience in locating says that 1\2 mile can make a lot of difference in them hearing you and also you hearing them. Maybe the adults did hear you this time?  Maybe there was some sort of communication ,however brief , that you didn't hear due to the racket of the distress calls and the other sounds you were making? And then the time frame of getting back in the truck and suddenly see the approaching coyote,. Was he actually coming to the call or  just using the road for quick access to the  rally point?

I'm  not real sure what happened out there. To be honest with you, after all that howling , I'd would probably assume you would have had some warning type or challenge type howls. If you continually harass a coyote I think sooner or later he probably will howl back at you, even if it's out of spite.  I certainly would expect something more aggressive than a group yip howl. One thing I will say is that if you were actually in the field hunting and not on the road when that yip howl occurred. I think if you would have lone howled or started with some loud distress, I think you more than likely would have had the whole nine yard in your lap!

Right now the coyote in my area (backyard) are extremely vocal. Not so much from a howling stand point(group) but with short series of barks, some loud and some soft, some sounding somewhat passive and others that are more on the aggressive side with an occasional howl thrown in to the mix.  They wake me up 3 or 4 times a night. I think they have a very good idea on where  the other members of the group are, at least the adults recent position, which really makes me wonder  if they really have a predetermined rendezvous point or if they only head in the direction of the last known position and then pick up on the scent trail to find the adult. This probably could take that 20 or so minutes that  Brent and others talk about. I've seen them regroup before and I know there can be a lot of sniffing and posturing before the  group yip howl is initiated.

What was the trigger? I think the 1\2 mile shift in position.

[keekee]

What was the trigger? I think the 1\2 mile shift in position.

That's very possible! The half mile run down the road could of made a big difference. It could of simulated several things. One being a strange coyote or coyotes crossing threw there territory. I have found this tool to work sometimes to jerk howls out of coyotes that I could not locate. I will get in the truck and with a partner slowly drive threw the area with the windows down and yip howl as  we hang out the windows and move threw the area. Then at a certain point just stop and listen for 15 min then move on. To me this simulates another group of coyotes moving threw there territory and will often get a Territorial vocalization response out of the group.

Gary,

Your tactic's are a little different than ours, and maybe the reason you have got the results you have from coyote vocalizations. The way you hunt is just made for distress sounds. And you are very efficient at them as well, you have a heck of a system worked out on those coyotes!

Off topic a little: One of the reasons I employ vocalization here is I may not be able to get up and move and set up in the same area this group of coyotes are in. And in my style of hunting I may not be back to this spot for a long time. If I can run a few vocals and get a response be it, vocally or appearance then I want to use them to take this or these coyotes. I howl on 80 - 100% of my stands at some point. Maybe in the beginning, middle or end but sometime during the stand  will most likely howl. This time of year being one that would call for it at the end of the stand unless something changes my mind during the stand.

I cant count the number of times we have ran threw the distress series and ended with coyote vocals and pull a coyote in and shoot it that if we had not howled we would of got up and walked off leaving empty handed. Both East and West.


Brent

[THO Game Calls]

Your tactic's are a little different than ours

That made me remember the picture Gary posted a while back of the two dead coyotes he shot of his back porch while wearing shorts and sandles drinking a cup of coffee while the E caller was blaring away    :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Al

[KillerCaller!]

Greenside, I was happy that I got anything out of them. I was throwing challenges, invitations, yips and lone howls at them so fast that, maybe like the mist, they didn't know what to do? I would have expected to get some sort of, "I wanna kick your ass" response and not a yip howl as well. The move down the road (in their mind the coyote movement) could have been the trigger.
Gary, I mainly use howling because it works and I enjoy it. If I had no luck with it I would give up on it on a dime. Mainly howling interspersed with distress is how I go. As THO stated, they are not going hungry for most of the year back here. I know a lot of guys have great success using distress only but it's just not for me.
I am much more of a Caller than a Killer so the enjoyment for me is in the slow approach afforded by howls.
I don't pull the trigger I push the gas!
Canine, they just built a Holiday Inn Express next to the Bass Pro shop up here. My stays are only 20 minutes.

I can't believe Chuck lost either.

I am sort of a Liddell fan but I like the way Jardine works. Chopping people down with kicks is his game and he is good at it. I was very surprised that Jardine was KO'ed by Houston Alexander. Striker's are not my favorite to watch in MMA. That fight between Thiago Tavares and Tyson Griffin was the type of fight I love to watch.

[wv_yoter]

I can't believe Chuck lost either.
I am sort of a Liddell fan but I like the way Jardine works. Chopping people down with kicks is his game and he is good at it. I was very surprised that Jardine was KO'ed by Houston Alexander. Striker's are not my favorite to watch in MMA. That fight between Thiago Tavares and Tyson Griffin was the type of fight I love to watch.

Now your talking. I like both aspects of the game.

[Randy Roede]

Dennis, do you have that piece of machinery up and runnin? Good post on the locating logic.

KC sounds like you were calling coyotes instead of locating coyotes. Was it a clear night there with bright moonlight. Coyotes will usually be less vocal if you are locating close to a home range, and more apt to come in to check it out.

Distress vs. vocalizations in Oct. to Dec. that's pretty elementary. East, west ,dispersed YOY are a little spooky of coyote vocalizations. Maybe why all the YOY pics showin YOY dead using distress!

Group howls vs. lone howls to get the most responses locating during the course of a year, a series of vocalizations and distress to locate coyotes.

Nighttime locating ,daytime locating.  The surface is just being scratched.

Time of the day or night you locate.

What they do after you locate them.

Does it sound like an aggressive pair, a group, a lone coyote, have you heard them there before, cover and terrain they are in when located, time of year, all factors in the plan of attack after locating.

This is stuff you learn in the field, not on the Internet. The Internet forums gives you ideas then you have to fill in the blanks.

[KillerCaller!]

RandyR, yes I was calling and not locating. If I am calling in any way I am expecting something to show up. If I am locating I am walking, looking for sign.

[Greenside]

RR

Yup, It's up and running. One mean machine! Nothing close to buyers remorse yet.


I realize that it can take a long time to get response when locating. Maybe even twenty minutes or more. I also know that in that time frame a lot can happen. Coyote could move a couple of miles either toward or away from you. If I going to wait that long for a response, I'm sure as hell going to more down the road some and then wait them out rather than stick in the same place for more more than five or six minutes. In my area you are going to get busted big time if you stick around for very long. Had it happen too many times to play around with them. For what it worth, for the average recreational howler and caller if you don't get after response after three or four minutes after a couple of short series of lone howls or maybe on group yip howl and go try to find some more.

[KillerCaller!]

I'm sure as hell going to move down the road some and then wait them out rather than stick in the same place for more more than five or six minutes. In my area you are going to get busted big time if you stick around for very long. Had it happen too many times to play around with them.

Greenside, that is very good advice. If you have no plans on killing them Right Away, howl and move if the country allows. Staying put gives the upper hand to the coyotes. Sound and solid!
Is there anyone here that calls on a regular basis w/out any intention of taking them if they come in? I do and I'll tell ya why.......

[vvarmitr]

Is there anyone here that calls on a regular basis w/out any intention of taking them if they come in?

NFW!    No love for coyotes here.  We are not brothers or one in spirit. We are both predators & we both will kill lessr predators given the chance. 

KC: do the farmers/ranchers know you are doing that?  Around here that's a good way to lose your hunting permission.
The only way I might do that is if I was invited to hunt w/ you, on your grounds, & you asked me not to. (hint, hint  )

[Greenside]

Killer,

Just out of curiosity, what howlers are you using for locating(calling)?  You mentioned the Killer call and the power howler.

[KillerCaller!]

VV, I call/ hunt mainly public land that abuts private land 99% of the time. The land owner's are the government and I don't think they care much. There is exactly one place that I call that is privately owned and that owner likes the coyotes. Gaining permission here is like pulling teeth, although, the entire state is not like that. If I lived 2 1/2 hrs south or north I could probably get access to land, a better population to hunt and would pull the trigger more because the land owners would expect it.
As of now, I really have no vested interest in killing coyotes. I don't do damge work, I don't manage for deer or turkey, I don't make films and the fur isn't worth my time. They are not the easiest to call here so even if I took every one I called in it would number in the mid twenties. I have decided over the last year or so that I can get the same thrill by just calling them in as I can shooting them. If I had some type of stake in the game maybe I would see the point in taking more. I still carry a gun and will, if I want, take one. Otherwise, I just go around ruining the calling for the rest of the people, I guess. The only time I plan on taking one and am dissappointed when I don't is when I am hunting them with a bow. We can finally hunt them from a treestand this year so I may take one or two that way this year. Something new!

Greenside, I use a band of different calls. The PowerHowler, the Cronk KillerCall, a howler that Mr. Cronk made for me (in the vein of the Taylor Special but with a twist), a very small buffalo horn tip call that I made, an E.L.K. Deluxe Cow Elk call and a diaphragm. I also use a Standard and every once in a while, when the wind is up, a Dan Thompson SweetWater Howler that I bought last year after losing my RDH in a swamp. Just about anything that has an open reed or latex on it.

[vvarmitr]

KC: you can kill everyone you see. They'll make more.  

I do sure agree w/ ya calling them in is the real thrill!

[Greenside]

KC

Thanks, just wondering what you used. Sometime the look great and sound great howlers are not real effective for locating. At least in my area. Although most could be effective for calling, I think locator howlers need some cajones in order to consistently  initiate howl back. Why do those cute little cheerleaders have such big megaphones?   

[Rich]

"Why do those cute little cheerleaders have such big megaphones?"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis,

Because HOOTERS RULE.   

[KillerCaller!]

Hooter's, howler's and and shotguns!
Greenside, I like to use a call that is loud, long lasting and weatherproof. I had to drill out a RedDesert after a long day in the snow and drizzle. The next day it had shrunk so much that the mouthpiece wouldn't go in any more.
One reason, besides sound quality and versatility, that I like Mr. Cronk's calls so much is that they are weatherproof. A St. Bernard could slobber all over one and that reed would still not lock up and it will never lose it's luster. Compact, LOUD! What more can a guy ask for?
The Power Howler sounds great but howling with the leaves up it doesn't travel well. The dead of night is when I like to use th PH. At that time it seems to travel much better. The DThompson calls are nice and loud but that wood, to me, is not sealed well. I have resealed nearly every call I have that is wood because I know it's gonna see some crazy swamp and snow action.

[keekee]

KillerCaller,

How far do you think that Power howler reaches? And how much do you think sound quality matters compared to how loud the call is?

Also how do you compare electronics volume compared to the loudness of a hand call? (Coyote vocalizations) And the sound quality of a electronic call compared to a hand call? (Coyote Vocalization)


Brent