Howl first or howl later?

KillerCaller! · March 22, 2008, 10:36:03 AM

Howling at the end of a stand? It seems counterintuitive to me.

If you are howling at the END, supposedly, how long do you wait afterward? You don't just howl and leave, do you? To be quite LITERAL if you howl last and then wait ten minutes aren't you actually ending the stand with silence and not a howl?
Doing it the same way every time leads to boredom.

In the bedroom or in the field... :shck:

I use distress then howl or howl and then distress I may never howl and use a hurt pup or whine or adult distress and prey distress or just howl once or twice or twenty times or lay there and fall asleep or whistle..............

alscalls · March 22, 2008, 12:16:07 PM

We do wait after we howl, however like just last night we usually do not wait to long before they howl back. But they hung up just out of sight

http://www.geocities.com/alscalls/coyote.html

Rich · March 22, 2008, 12:21:09 PM

KillerCaller!,

Howling at the end is what really opened my eyes about howling. My first cow horn howler was a Herbs howler. This was the howler that old Herb used to make, not the newer model. This was back in the 1980's, when those of us here in the midwest thought that howlers were only good for "locating" coyotes. I had been calling with a rabbit call for maybe 15 minutes one day, and still no takers. I decided to howl a couple of times just for giggles. About half way through my second howl, I heard the boom of my buddy's 12 gauge. A pair of coyotes had been hung up back in the brush until they heard the howl. My buddy saw them come under a barb wire fence, and come full bore directly at me. He dropped one coyote at about twenty yards, short shucked the twelve, which went "click" on an empty chamber. Did that experience teach me something? Yep, it sure did. Nothing works all of the time for coyotes, but a howler is a mighty good tool to have in your arsenal of calls.

Frogman · March 22, 2008, 09:33:40 PM

I usually give it a few minutes after the last howl. Lots of times the response can be somewhat delayed. I like to give them a chance to respond. This is just my first year and I'm still learning so take that into account when reading my posts.
I do know that on Friday night we had little or no response to distress sounds early in the stand. Then when we all howled in a seranade two packs of dogs lit up. One pack on the left side of the ridge and the other on the right side. We were not able to get them to the gun, but it sure was exciting hearing them respond.

Jim

HaMeR · March 22, 2008, 10:06:28 PM

QuoteMy opinion is that the sooner you let that coyote know he's dealing with another coyote, the sooner the stand will be over.

How about starting with some fox barks to really irritate the coyotes then??

Let em know they have competition but at least it's the type they feel they can whoop up on.

Frogman · March 22, 2008, 10:22:13 PM

Glen,
Thanks for the suggestion about using fox barks. When we were out last night we actually tried fox vocals and cat sounds in place of rabbit distress. The response we got was when all of us started howling in a seranade. That really got the two packs fired up.

Jim

nite caller · March 23, 2008, 12:05:12 AM

I'm still trying to kill my first coyote, but i normally try to mix up the howl's with the distress calls.

HaMeR · March 23, 2008, 07:58:19 AM

You're Welcome Jim. But did they close in any closer??

KillerCaller! · March 23, 2008, 10:08:17 AM

Mr. Cronk, exactly my point. You wasted 12 minutes with distress when a howl at the beginning would have cut the stand in quarters, as yourself or Greenside stated earlier. I am a big proponent of howling. It's a staple for me.

I suggest howling pretty quickly into a stand if you are going to howl at all. If you are starting with some quiet distress, pup or prey, to clear the immediate area and do not want to blow them out with a howl, so be it. Wait a few and then howl and go back to distress after a few minutes of silence. The pup distress, to me, would act the same as the howl.
Stranger, competition hibbity jibbity boo. W/out the extra volume.
The howler is, 99% of the time, going to be the longer range tool in your arsenal. Clearing the immediate area may have some running the opposite direction because they've heard that song before, etc. The howls may turn the runners back or reach some far off ears and they may take several minutes or 30 seconds to respond.
There are pitfalls to howling but the upside, in my mind, is way too great to not do it at all. Ramble... Ramble...

Frogman · March 23, 2008, 10:32:05 AM

Quote from: HaMeR on March 23, 2008, 07:58:19 AM
You're Welcome Jim. But did they close in any closer??

Glen,
We did the fox and cat sounds first. After about 15 minutes we started the howling seranade. The dogs lit up on both sides of the ridge for seveal minutes. One of the guys continued to try to get the dogs in by howling and hurt pup kiyi's with no success. They might have come in closer, but with our cover and terrain none of us saw any dogs.

Jim

alscalls · March 23, 2008, 11:44:31 AM

Wow what a night, but still no one has a succsess story on these kind of hang ups.

http://www.geocities.com/alscalls/coyote.html

HaMeR · March 23, 2008, 11:56:01 AM

Maybe they just need a break from all the calling. I haven't called once since I've been back. Maybe an evening or 2 this week tho.

alscalls · March 23, 2008, 12:03:07 PM

Every one of my spots that we hit has not been hunted in months with the exeption of one and it had been three weeks and we still got a response from that one. I keep pretty good track of that so I dont over call one spot.
http://www.geocities.com/alscalls/coyote.html

HaMeR · March 23, 2008, 03:57:54 PM

Cool!!

golfertrout · March 23, 2008, 05:38:53 PM

A dod is a dog and he will do what ever he wants when he wants. Every person on these post have had the same problem im sure. And just like these folks on this forum , they are all different and will do something different then u and I to a point. these eastern yotes r tough and this time of year makes it even tougher. We had some good set ups the other night n still no luck with fur on the ground, but i will be back out again to try my luck. WE went out sat night and had several packs respond but same thing hang ups. If there are any experts out there that would like to hunt with us we can put u on dogs and we will see if u can bring them in that extra step.

alscalls · March 23, 2008, 06:34:32 PM

first ya gotta know how to spell dog PEE WE :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

golfertrout · March 23, 2008, 06:37:31 PM

i tant pell vewy dood torry bassole

canine · March 24, 2008, 11:58:53 AM

I have found when your dealing with a pack that group howls to your howling, the way I have been able to pull one or two from the pack, even at night, is to lay it on them. Relentless barks and howls, at some point and time you will get a threat howl from one in that group, when it does, lay it to him, threat him back, just remember to keep it in a lower tone than him but be persistant. That has worked plenty of times to get an approach from at least one coyote sometimes the whole pack in the field, although they tend to stay back aways as one approaches, similar to how a group of crows work.
Now I'm not saying it works everytime, but I can say it works enough to justify using this technique.

Brent and I have a couple pieces of footage doing this, I'll dig through the piles of tapes to see if I can put them up for you guy's to see.

JD

Frogman · March 24, 2008, 01:41:38 PM

JD,
Thanks for the tip on getting those hung up dogs in. We will try that next time we get a pack responding to us. This forum is great. As a relative newbie to the sport I really appreciate you more experienced guys taking the time to share your information.

Many thanks!

Jim

alscalls · March 24, 2008, 04:04:35 PM

Quote from: canine on March 24, 2008, 11:58:53 AM
I have found when your dealing with a pack that group howls to your howling, the way I have been able to pull one or two from the pack, even at night, is to lay it on them. Relentless barks and howls, at some point and time you will get a threat howl from one in that group, when it does, lay it to him, threat him back, just remember to keep it in a lower tone than him but be persistant. That has worked plenty of times to get an approach from at least one coyote sometimes the whole pack in the field, although they tend to stay back aways as one approaches, similar to how a group of crows work.
Now I'm not saying it works everytime, but I can say it works enough to justify using this technique.

Brent and I have a couple pieces of footage doing this, I'll dig through the piles of tapes to see if I can put them up for you guy's to see.

JD

Thanlks, Is it on one of the DVD's? I just ordered one of them.