Yesterday young son and I Finally got permission to hunt a fairly large farm around here So yesterday morning we met the landowner at the local Biscuit shop at 7am and after breakfast we headed out to let him show us this new piece of property he had bought. I feel privileged to be able to hunt this guy's property as he is a well know contractor around Nash and has a really nice farm and he's not known to have much time for anyone.
After we drove around and got a lay of the land as he was about to be on his way he looked me in the eye and said Doug, The Dogs around here are killing my calf's and if you see any dog's Kill em! I mean any! Well the way I figured it my chance of seeing a dog was prolly gonna be slim to none so off we went. We had made a couple of stands with no luck and made our way around a corner of a field and DAMNT, there were 3 Big ole dogs laying around a brush pile bout 200 yds away. I was more pissed that we had walked all that distance to find the dogs had buggered up my Yote hunt than anything else. Well young son and all his wisdom looks at me and say's what now? We were kinda squatted down watching them and one of em keyed in on us and here they came growlling and barking and running full speed and I looked at Colt as he was laying down his bolt gun and drawing his 1911 I said they may have answered the question for me! I told Colt when they get to 50yds start killing em as I pushed off the safety on my AR. As luck would have it they stopped at about 50yds or so and started barking so I started walking towards them and they ran under the fence towards the house where he said the dogs lived. We finished out the hunt with no luck but It was still a good hunt!
Okay, I'm not gonna shoot a dog (With exceptions to that rule) If it were my calfs that might be a different story. (Kinda makes me wonder if that was the only reason he wanted us to hunt that piece of property) And I didnt tell him about our lil run in. What would you have done?
Oh yea....2 of the dogs had collars on them.
The exceptions to my rule are If muffin bites me, I'm gonna kill him. If muffin happens to be a Pit Bull and walks across my yard I'm gonna kill him.
WWW
What was your reply to the farmer when he told you if you see any dogs kill em
Having dog problems Huh?
I dont Lie.....
It is real simple to me.
The land owner said if you see any dogs to kill 'em so I would kill any dog on the man's property.
I would do what you did Doug. Having worked with different land owners pretty much my entire life, I've found they have their own personal squabbles that I can't afford to let get in my road. What happens if you shoot the dog? The guy who owned it may have had something for you but you'll never see it now. :sad: If there are dogs that need shooting then it's a new game but just on one persons say so doesn't make it so. :shrug:
Not simple at all for me Semp, I can see that Lil ole boy sitting on his porch somewhere with his head in his hands wondering where his dog is, I cant do it.
Man shoots my dog for wandering a lil bit, he aint gonn like me. Now if my dog is doing damage to his livestock or property thats a different story. It wasnt my dog or my property, My opinion its not my business. If it means I cant hunt there anymore then so be it. But I will sleep good knowing I didnt shoot someones pet or some kids best friend.
As I see it he is getting you to do his dirty work. Dogs wander, hell mine do on occasion so do my neighbors, one guys comes near our property once in awhile and never stops barking in the morning, I have often thought that one of my connibear 330's and it would be over. A guy in Anchorage did just that and he was the one who went to court. I also agree with you, I own dogs, they are part of our family, how would I feel if that happened. In the end it is the land owners situation to deal with not yours, if $hit hits the fan and you killed them don't expect him to stand by your side and defend you, he can't even face his neighbor and solve his own problem. Just my opinion WWW.
John
I do pretty much what you did. When a land owner ask me to shoot any dog I see I reply if it's got a collar I cant but no collar I may.
In a case where the dog aint got a collar and obviously looks to belong to someone and isn't bothering nothing I leave it. Like you I don't want to get involved in what could be a neighbor conflict thrown off to me. I know in most states you can shoot a dog on your property but this isn't your property or leased nor official overseer. You are just a guest plus if someone see's you shoot their dog would said landowner pay for your time or court fee's if any?
I know I dont what to create or be apart of any trouble that could lead to the law or other wise over a dog. :rolleye:
Me and Tikaani seemed to be typing at the same time along the same lines. :wo:
In Texas, it behooves one to do as the land owner wishes....
However, when it comes to dogs (except for feral), I agree with WWW. I'd respectfully tell the land owner that I personally have a problem with killing someone's dog, with the exception of it actually posing a threat to human life, and/or I see it attacking livestock or deer. Should that preclude me from obtaining permission to hunt his/her land.... so be it.
CCP, great minds think alike.
John
Quote from: WldWldWest on February 20, 2011, 12:29:47 PM
Having dog problems Huh?
I dont Lie.....
Doug
I never meant that to sound as you lied
Everyone has standards and you stood by yours
It is a hard decision to kill a dog especially when it has a collar on or looks to be well fed. Down in Georgia there are a lot of stray dogs from people dropping them out and then they pack up if the Coyotes don't get them, I have picked up a few dogs that had been dropped out and found them a good home but when they pack up and start running Deer its a different story. I think I would have done what WWW did. cc
Quote from: Bills Custom Calls on February 20, 2011, 04:08:50 PM
Quote from: WldWldWest on February 20, 2011, 12:29:47 PM
Having dog problems Huh?
I dont Lie.....
Doug
I never meant that to sound as you lied
Everyone has standards and you stood by yours
No worries Bill, I didnt take it that way.
I was frying fish as I was typing that and shouldnt have been so short!
Quote from: WldWldWest on February 20, 2011, 12:09:49 PM
After we drove around and got a lay of the land as he was about to be on his way he looked me in the eye and said Doug, The Dogs around here are killing my calf's and if you see any dog's Kill em!
I can understand the problem some have about killing dogs. But the man stated the dogs were killing his calf's. If you had a problem with doing what he asked why didn't you tell him so up front? By giving you permission, when you didn't object, he understood that was what you were going to do. Seems a bit dishonest to me to not have told him you had a problem with shooting dogs.
As for me on my farm, a dog without a collar doesn't live long.
Here's what the law says....
Shooting a dog in Tennessee only legal in some cases
By DENAE D'ARCY
6 News Anchor/Reporter
Posted: Nov 22, 2010 4:56 PM EST
KNOXVILLE (WATE) - After a dog was found shot three times over the weekend in Sevier County, several 6 News viewers questioned whether it's legal to shoot a dog that wanders onto their property.
The dog is still alive. It was found limping through a field near Porterfield Gap and Boyd's Creek Road, and a woman rushed it to a veterinarian for care.
Knoxville attorney Greg Issacs explained Tennessee state law when it comes to animal abuse. "If you don't like the cats that are in the barn, be prepared to go to jail if you pull out the gun."
In Tennessee it is illegal to shoot a dog that wanders onto your property. It is an offense to "knowingly and unlawfully kill the animal of another without the owner's effective consent." TCA 39-14-205(a)(1)(A). Such a killing is deemed a "theft of property, graded according to the value of the animal." TCA 39-14-205(B).
However, as Issacs explained, "You do have the right if a vicious dog comes on your property and you're in danger, you can absolutely defend yourself."
Unless a person is under attack or their pet is under attack, Issacs said, "It is against the law to shoot an animal, period. There could be a very serious criminal case in the laws of Tennessee."
The dog is being cared for by the Tri-County Vet Clinic. He will be adopted out as soon as he is healthy.
Source:
http://www.wate.com/Global/story.asp?S=13551485
More…
Tennessee consolidated dog laws:
Title 44. Animals and Animal Husbandry. Chapter 17. Dogs and Cats.
http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/stustnst44_17_101_505.htm#s44_4_408
Doug after reading coyotehunter_1 post I sure as hell glad you didn't post about the 2 dogs you killed on someone else's property. :innocentwhistle: :huh:
§ 44-17-203. Killing or injuring dogs; defenses
In an action for damages against a person for killing or injuring a dog, satisfactory proof that the dog had been or was killing or worrying livestock constitutes a good defense to such action.
Quote from: Semp on February 20, 2011, 07:35:56 PM
Quote from: WldWldWest on February 20, 2011, 12:09:49 PM
After we drove around and got a lay of the land as he was about to be on his way he looked me in the eye and said Doug, The Dogs around here are killing my calf's and if you see any dog's Kill em!
I can understand the problem some have about killing dogs. But the man stated the dogs were killing his calf's. If you had a problem with doing what he asked why didn't you tell him so up front? By giving you permission, when you didn't object, he understood that was what you were going to do. Seems a bit dishonest to me to not have told him you had a problem with shooting dogs.
As for me on my farm, a dog without a collar doesn't live long.
As we were riding around he was in his truck and my son and I were in mine following so there wasnt any conversation between us.
When I had a phone conversation a couple days prior to the hunt there was no mention of dog's,Killing dog's or anything about dogs or I would have told him that I wasnt gonna make the hour long drive cause one, I wanted to hunt coyotes not dog's and the man waited till the last second before he drove away to mention it and It kinda caught me offguard so if thats being dishonest as you say well.....Tough shit! I guess I'm dishonest! But I aint no dog killer.
I know what I would have done,but that is me.The farmer stated he was having problems I would have had no problem helping him out,But Doug seems to have a bit of a heart and compassion here.Seems as though he thought outside the box here.
If Doug would have posted he seen the dogs ripping hell out of a calf or chasing deer and he let them go I would have a different opinion of him
Quote from: WldWldWest on February 20, 2011, 08:33:47 PM
When I had a phone conversation a couple days prior to the hunt there was no mention of dog's,Killing dog's or anything about dogs or I would have told him that I wasnt gonna make the hour long drive cause one, I wanted to hunt coyotes not dog's and the man waited till the last second before he drove away to mention it and It kinda caught me offguard so if thats being dishonest as you say well.....Tough shit! I guess I'm dishonest! But I aint no dog killer.
Whoa! Chill out. Don't get your panties in a wad. The title of this thread is "Landowner and Dog's....What would you do?" I told you what I would do and then you went in to rant about not killing dogs. You didn't have any problem hunting on the man's farm though, did ya? I said why not be up front with the man. Look the man in the eye and tell him how you feel. You chose not to and that's fine with me. But that ain't the way I operate.
According to Coyotehunter_1, it looks like Tennessee has laws against shooting any animals including dogs and cats. So like CCP said, it is a good thing you didn't pull the trigger.
When the man gets tired of his calf's dying, he'll figure out how to handle the problem on his own.
Quote from: Semp on February 20, 2011, 08:48:37 PM
Quote from: WldWldWest on February 20, 2011, 08:33:47 PM
When I had a phone conversation a couple days prior to the hunt there was no mention of dog's,Killing dog's or anything about dogs or I would have told him that I wasnt gonna make the hour long drive cause one, I wanted to hunt coyotes not dog's and the man waited till the last second before he drove away to mention it and It kinda caught me offguard so if thats being dishonest as you say well.....Tough shit! I guess I'm dishonest! But I aint no dog killer.
Whoa! Chill out. Don't get your panties in a wad. The title of this thread is "Landowner and Dog's....What would you do?" I told you what I would do and then you went in to rant about not killing dogs. You didn't have any problem hunting on the man's farm though, did ya? I said why not be up front with the man. Look the man in the eye and tell him how you feel. You chose not to and that's fine with me. But that ain't the way I operate.
According to Coyotehunter_1, it looks like Tennessee has laws against shooting any animals including dogs and cats. So like CCP said, it is a good thing you didn't pull the trigger.
When the man gets tired of his calf's dying, he'll figure out how to handle the problem on his own.
I reread my replys and I couldnt find where I went into a rant anywhere Semp? To be honest I dont think your capable of putting me into a rant. I do appreciate your reply's to my post however. I think I clearly explained how this went down and If you think I was being dishonest I suppose you have a right to be but I dont feel that I was. If anything the landowner put something on me at the last second that I wasnt comfortable with and didnt stick around long enough for me to say yea or neah.
And I dont think your capable of putting my panties in a wad either. :wink:
Doug
I don't kill dog , asked to or not.
now if i did then calling in PA may be worth wild, because I call lots more doggies then coyotes .
here a couple on video that came to a lip squeak .
sorry a bout the bad footage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TliyLlUNpnU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TliyLlUNpnU)
Semp, you scentlock wearing dog killer you ! haha :alscalls: :alscalls:
Hmmmm..... if the subject were about cats instead of dogs, I wonder if the responses would be different.... :confused: :innocentwhistle:
i would have done the same thin wldwld west,a few years back a friend of mine was bow hunting on a farmers place and he shot 2 of the farmers neighbors bluetick coon hounds the first one he killed the second one he stuck with an arrow and it ran home!when my frind came out of the woods the neighbor and the farmer were waiting on him at the truck and the neighbor pulled a pistol stuck it between my friends eyes and made him begg for his lifehe said if it wastn for the farmer calming the guy down he was mad enough to pull the trigger.my friend payed a few thousand dollers to get out of that mess and it almost cost him his life.i dont shoot another mans dog if isee one while hunting i just let it go on doin what its doin :laf:.it is aginst the law here in tennessee to harm a dog unless defending your self,plus in this part o tennessee shooting a mans dog is worse than slpping his wife in the face :nono:
Quote from: Tikaani on February 20, 2011, 02:12:35 PM
As I see it he is getting you to do his dirty work. Dogs wander, hell mine do on occasion so do my neighbors, one guys comes near our property once in awhile and never stops barking in the morning, I have often thought that one of my connibear 330's and it would be over. A guy in Anchorage did just that and he was the one who went to court. I also agree with you, I own dogs, they are part of our family, how would I feel if that happened. In the end it is the land owners situation to deal with not yours, if $hit hits the fan and you killed them don't expect him to stand by your side and defend you, he can't even face his neighbor and solve his own problem. Just my opinion WWW.
John
Spot on Sir !
Well, it looks like we've went from calf killing dogs to the neighbor's boy's pet to blue tick coon hounds. :nono: I guess Fluffy the poodle is next. :laf:
I just dont think anything good can come outta shooting a dog, I think we've all heard the war stories where the dog wanders home with a gunshot or an arrow hanging out of it. If ya catch it in the act being destructive or killing livestock is one thing but if your walking across 1600 acres and stumble on an ole dog just being an ole dog I feel thats a totally different story.
But to redeem myself I intend to call the guy and tell him (I havent talk to him since before the hunt) That I saw some dogs and tell him where I saw em and he can do whatever he wants to do about it. Maybe I'll get Invited back or maybe not. I intend to make sure he doesnt think I was being dishonest or decieving just to hunt the mans land and that I wont be shootin any dogs.
WWW
I will shoot a dog. BUT it depends on the situation. If it one of the six dogs that belong to the local farms. Not only do they get a free pass but I may call them over and give them a scratch. If it is an unknown dog it will be watched for a few. If it is agressive. Wll sorry about its luck. friendly, I check to see if anyone has a new animal. If thats a negative then its game on if I see it again. If I am hunting new property I find out first and for definite what dogs if any are to be disposed of.
I just thought of it but would it not be a good idea to put that on your written permmission to hunt the land. If the land owner has problem animals like that he shouldnt mind taking responsibility for having them erradicated.
Just like these 2 pups...called in, charged, got slobber, cow chit n mud all over me, found out they belong to an older couple with one of those in ground electronic barriers that occasionally goes on the blitz, dogs do get loose:
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj275/nastygunz/boxer3.jpg)
I wouldn't shoot a dog that I knew was a dog short of it attacking people/pets/livestock.
That said, I may well have pulled the trigger on one yesterday (he's about to be looked at by a state wildlife biologist). If I had any questions in the 2 or 3 seconds from the time I saw his head peep up until I pulled the trigger, I wouldn't have shot him. But all of you know far better than I do that once the actions starts, everything moves quick. If you're expecting coyotes, and you see something that looks like a coyote, reacting to a coyote call, all of us would pull the trigger. I saw his head and bushy neck peek up over the ridge with those long, pointy ears way up in the air, put the reticle on him and put him down. I would do it again tomorrow too because he sure as hell looked like a coyote in those 2 or 3 seconds, especially to a new coyote hunter expecting coyotes.
I would never shoot a dog that had a collar unless he was actively attacking pets/people/livestock. I don't aim to be a pet killer.
All that said, feral dogs are as big a threat to livestock and young game as coyotes. According to a Kansas study, feral dogs take down about 25% of all predated livestock, and have no qualms about taking fawns and such. They also pack hunt in ways that coyotes don't (think wolves). If part of the point of being a hunter is to help with game management and helping farmers with predation issues (I don't think any of us would argue against that when it comes to hunting coyotes), it seems to me that taking a feral dog is just the same as taking a coyote, and may be even more helpful in game/livestock management.
I'm gonna try not to rant, but I probably will. :doh2:
Seems all your tender mercies are for the dogs so I'm believing you never saw calves ripped all to {L} by dogs, feral or other wise.
When I was 14; dogs got into our herd of calves that we turned out to grass.
6 died that day 2 latter on & the mess & medical attention that the others required was phenomenal!
Dogs aren't like coyotes; they grab what ever & rip. Ears, nose, tail, legs, etc.
Dad actually found a dog chewing/eating on a calf that was still alive. :madd:
From that day forward I killed dogs. I don't really like, but I do it.
And ya know it was suddenly amazing how well people could take care of their dogs then! :rolleye:
Then there are the mishaps between kids roaming the fields & being confronted by dogs. :argh:
As for little Johnie losing Sparky .... dogs are like women .... you can always get another one. :eyebrow:
However, in that situation we were the property owners, so until Doug gets more information from his land owner he probably did the right thing. Especially considering the law. :iroll:
The neighbor had 2 dogs he let run free and i always told him if his dogs ever start trouble with my dogs that were tied i would drop them right there and I would deliver them to his front yard,that went for chasing deer or if I hear of them getting in another neighbors cows.
It wasn't long I seen another dog running with the first 2.I knew that dog also,and I made it very well known that i would kill that bulldog mix breed if it ever showed up at my place,she called and left threatening messages on my answering machine that she was gonna knife me to death Chris called the sheriff when the deputy listened to the message he said he would talk to her my reply was tell her it is useless to bring a knife to a gun fight.
A short few weeks later the 3 dogs got into a goat pen one night and killed 6 of 8 goats.
The old Billy made his marks on each one of the dogs.
The dog warden was called and all 3 dogs were put down and the owners had to pay for the goats.The dog owners were also told there is a leash law in Ohio and they will be charged for breaking the law.
I felt bad for the goats cause I had the chance to put the dogs down a few times and didn't do it.but when I seen them they were doing nothing wrong
I know all my neighbors.... and their dogs..... So I kinda know whos dog I am looking at..... and I just go talk to the owner.... I have trapped a few of em on accident..... and just took em home...
If their is a dog or a group of dogs running wild it aint long...we all talk about it and they disappear.... And Its a mutual thing among the neighbors..... I would never ask someone else to take care of the problem for me.... as I know whos who...... They(someone hunting on me) dont.......
Quote from: vvarmitr on February 25, 2011, 10:03:02 AM
I'm gonna try not to rant, but I probably will. :doh2:
Seems all your tender mercies are for the dogs so I'm believing you never saw calves ripped all to {L} by dogs, feral or other wise.
Believe it or not I have seen what what dog's can do feral or pet's, The worst was my neighbor's lil girl getting mauled by a pit bull that I witnessed and then promptly killed! You know the dog, Fluffy that never harmed anyone Blah, Blah, Blah. Thats the reason I have an itch to Kill pit's, Now this is just my opinion but I think the breed should be exterminated, Now before anyone goes off the deep end thats just my opinion and I'm entitled to it. I'm just making a point. As I said before I wouldnt hesitate to shoot a dog that I caught being destructive or menacing but just cause I see it walking around doesnt mean I'm going to. The Bunch I deer hunt with will shoot a dog in a heartbeat but thats on them! I did talk to the landowner of that property today and told him about the dogs and how I felt and he said that he understood and not to worry about it and that he shot 2 of em that evening. He also said I was welcome to come back anytime which I intend to do tomorrow!
WWW
Quote from: WldWldWest on February 25, 2011, 06:42:01 PM
.......... and that he shot 2 of em that evening. He also said I was welcome to come back anytime which I intend to do tomorrow!
All's well that ends well. :wink:
As for pit bulls, I like them a lot. I've always wanted one but my wife won't hear of it. :nono: Since I need my wife more than the dog, I go along to get along. :eyebrownod:
Quote from: WldWldWest on February 25, 2011, 06:42:01 PMThats the reason I have an itch to Kill pit's, Now this is just my opinion but I think the breed should be exterminated,
So you understand the emotions I get remembering the calf killing incident. :wink:
Makes my blood boil!
Glad you got to talk the land owner & it turned out good. :thumb2: