In all my years of construction, rubber roofing was one thing I managed to avoid the entire time.
Now I'm being faced with my own and I'm not 100% sure how to do it.
I did all kinds of research this morning, and discovered they have a rubber roofing called EPDM. It goes on with a contact cement like adhesive and requires no special equipment. I even watched a very informative video posted by RPI (Roofing Products Incorporated) and learned a quite a bit. Most of it was common sense and kind of self explanatory after having several years of regular roofing under my belt.
BUT!...my biggest question with doing this myself, which is why I hunted down the information to begin with, is how do ya do the edges? The RPI Video came to an erupt halt right when I think the guy was going to show me. :doh2: And he froze up like this.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/RiverBoy/junk/rubberroof.jpg)
I restarted the video, and he froze there again, so I'm thinking,...... well you know what I'm thinking. But see how he's got the edges all over sized there like he's going to go back and trim them and then.......and then what?
I looked for other videos and information, and everything I found, they would build a curb on the leading edge of the roof, apply rubber up and over it, and then cover it with aluminum coil stock. :confused:
I dont understand that, unless they plan to dump gravel on it, and that keeps the gravel in place, which I'm not doing. And that was a video from Firestone Roofing.
Jim, most of the rubber roofing we have put on porches, etc., over the years requires a commercial grade drip edge which mounts over the edge, and then we installed another strip of the roofing. That was the torch down type which was the best going for a long time. Now they have one that requires a base sheet which nails down, and it is made for the finish roofing to bond to to when you peel off the protective sheet. It is sticky as hell and you have to use a heavy roller to make sure there are no air pockets. If my memory serves me right, it is made by Owens Corning and is a super product. Once you stick it down to the base sheet, it will never come loose.
They recommend a new base for the EPDM roofing also.
Either regular plywood sheeting, OSB, insulation board, or a type of MDO board.
I've used the self adhering type before on jobs, but we used it for ice guard around the lower edges etc. If I remember right, THAT stuff does not hold up under direct sunlight. It's meant to be covered again with shingles.
The product I'm talking about looks a lot like the old roll roofing but it comes in different colors and has a shingle like surface. I believe you may be talking about Iceguard and we used it around chimneys and down valleys. I'll look up the actual product info and post it.
possumal has you leaning in the right way. It is a cross between ice guard & rolled roofing. Peel the paper off the back as you roll it out & it adheres to the deck & to itself on the edges & the end seams. Great for a homeowner project.
http://www.certainteed.com/products/roofing/308479
Thats more of a rolled roofing by the looks of it, isnt it?
I dont think thats going to work cause I got one side wall on this application that I have to be able to climb with the stuff, at least 12".
It's more like the torch down stuff. It's rubbery & bends up the wall nicely. Get a piece of term bar for across the top & you're golden. We use quite a bit of that stuff. Matter of fact we just did a 170+/- sq/ft porch roof last Thursday with that same stuff. It came up the roof to the fascia on the house. Then we rolled it up the fascia & onto the roof deck. Left out the bottom row of shingles in that area. Ran the 2nd row of shingles & nailed them where they are supposed to be nailed & finished the shingles. Done & done. :biggrin:
When that stuff warms up in the sun & you pull the backing paper off do NOT let it touch each other from the back side. I guarantee you will regret that decision. :innocentwhistle:
that stuff works, you need a clean baseyou buy the rolls of base same place you get the rolls roofing
Glue the rolls of roofing along the seams,
edges go right up the walls to the top then get mucked and fabric then get cover by your flashing
flat edges, are mucked fab and covers by capping by 3'' then mucked fab again over roof side of flashing
check on it once a year .
easy pleasy freshy squeasy
get good base
ps,, I tried to post this at 7 am but comp took a fart.
go to foofing supply not depot or bloews
any questons i will have my roofer call you and walk you though it
Jim, these dudes are telling you right about being careful touching the two surfaces together. It is the stickiest damned stuff I have ever seen. I don't recall us using any glue on the overlaps but George might be right on that. Its been a while since we did one.
There's so many different kinds of it available now, and some glue on, some go on with a mastic, and some are self adhering, and I think everyone in this thread is talking about a different type. :alscalls: :doh2:
Jim ,
EPDM roffing come in rolls you can buy it 100' x 50' 50' x 20' 50' x 12' it comes in many sizes
it is not going to come in a roll like a modified rubber . its like a pool liner one big peace .
you lay it on the roof cut to the size you need . then you pull over 1/2 on its self,, contact ceament the roof and the 1/2 folded over EPDM let it drie and fold back over on to the roof.
seams are dont just like i said in my first post.
now SDS robber rubber roofing will come in rolls that i think are 3' by 33' this stuff goes down with i think its called MB Gold GLUE .roller on the glue and run the 3'x33' roll ,,, over lap the seams and get the glue to just ooooooss out a little
seams are also done like in my first post
WHAT IS IT GOING OVER ? OLD ROOF OR NEW PLYWOOD.
bottom line seams are done the same way on each,,,,, EPDM i have seen them screw it down on commercial jobs with screws and plates
Quotethey would build a curb on the leading edge of the roof, apply rubber up and over it, and then cover it with aluminum coil stock.
let me help explain that,, if its a new construction job or your roof walls have a top that dont lead into a nother roof like city homes or condows you could run it over thew top and cap it . if your walls are like 12'' high and then 6'' top and the goes down the side of the home on the other side but if it is not like that you just run and glue the walls to the top and muck and fab and cap
Yeah but I'm talking about the leading edge that faces the yard, away from the house, where the gutter goes, towards Pennsylvania.
I'm going to have to climb my fat aaaaaaaaaaaa up there with a camera aint I? :laf: :doh2:
ok , you should have a barge board that is on the side of your home that runs right at the height of your roof and all the way along the side wall of your home with the gutter nailed to it .
your side wall siding should go right up to and under the barge board .
so you run your roof system right to the edge of the roof ,,,"" now I muck and fab this after laying it and i mucK 3 to 4'' all along the roofs edge thats pointing tords PA "" and i do this right at the edge , you can remove old capping or muck right over it and add new capping then i also muck the top side of the new capping that's on the roof not the part that covers you barge board just the flat part that is on the roof.
jim some times guys only cap down there barge board 3 or 4 '' on the outside where it cover the side .and 3 or 4'' on the roof. i capped the hole barge board on my home and its a 90% bend in the capping with 3 to 4 '' on the roof covering the mucked edge of the roofing material.
yours capping will go flat on the roof 3 or 4'' then bend and down the barge board and into your gutter, AGAIN I LIKE TO MUCK AND FAB THE TOP ROOF SIDE OF THE CAPPING
if you have a chimney in the roof same same, run the material up the side of the chimney and flash it. if you have a brick chimney we call the flashing Philly flashing its were you would put a heavy 1/4'' bend what we call a jog , it go's on the top of the chimney flashing to lay into the horizontal joint of the bricks cement line then neatly caulk .
the other side that rest on the roof ether gets a 1'' 90 bend to lay on the roof and caulk or if your pitch is bad in your roof then just jog it back into the wall and caulk .your just covering the roofing material on the chimnney wall with the capping to help water proof it and make it look good from the ground
any pipes, vents or any other penetration in the roof remove the old roof flanges,,, lay the roof and install new ones right on top of the new roof and glue in a patch around the flange that's now nailed down over the new roof
All you need is the self adhering Flintastic from the above Certainteed link. No tar. No tape. The most you'll have to do is run a termination bar across the top edge if you're going up a wall. If you're going up to the fascia just go up & over it like I mentioned. If you have a low pitch into a steeper pitch just pull the bottom 3,4,or 5 rows of shingles off, run the product however far you want it ran up the steeper pitch then just shingle back over it. :biggrin: That stuff is rubbery & sticky & will seal around the nail shanks. You only need a fairly clean dry surface & some sunshine for it to adhere. We run new drip edge along the edges of the roof & primer it 1st with a roof sealing primer in a rattle can. Let that dry & you ainta gonna get it up again!! :nono: :nono:
:holdon: THE ROOFING MATERIAL THAT IS!!! :whew: :laf: :laf:
I'm trying to figure out what a barge board is :confused:
I heard the word barge and I ran to the shop and grabbed my 7' Daiwa Steez Compile-X Bass Trigger Rod. I thought the smallies were running :huh:
Whats he talking about HaMeR, the facia board? I thought you were in Pennsylvania George, why you talking all European on me? :laf:
I'm going to take some pics tomorrow, it's my last day off, it's the least I could do :eyebrow:
The terminology "up and over the facia" makes no sense to me unless your starting this job from the lawn, and my arms just aint that long. So I'm going to have to start where the other roof ends, and then run it.....get ready for this..... "run it down over the facia".
But I'll takes pics tomorrow, providing it's not covered with snow again. :doh2:
Glossary of terms Definition of words
Word: Barge Board
Definition: Exterior visible flat trim board that follows the rake of the roof.
A decorative board covering the projecting rafter (fly rafter) of the gable end.
The exterior wide trim board spanning the distance from the roof ridge to the cornice return
Bargeboard
the white trim in this photo.
(http://www.diydata.com/projects/fascia/bargeboard.jpg)
I'm guessing barge molding Jim. That would be the,, usually 1 1/2" tall or so by 1 1/4" thick accessory molding over the flat fascia running up the gable edges. It usually has the ogee look to it.
http://www.ufpi.com/product/techtrim/barge.htm
But the way it's worded I'm thinking George is referring to your fascia. He mentions your gutters being nailed to it. I'm also thinking different areas have a little different terminology for the same things some times.
Up & over the fascia as in a porch roof built under your soffit & attached to the house wall. The roofing would then go "up & over the fascia" & onto the roof to be finished off with shingles across the top.
I think we're all on the same page here. We're just not all in the same coloring book. :laf: :laf:
Even with the snow on it we can figure it out with pics. Just drag your butt up a ladder & take pics from the ladder. :hahaha: Use your cameras ...... zoom feature....... if needed. :laf:
Posted almost the same time George. :laf: I thought you meant fascia. Different areas & different terminology is all. :biggrin:
this is the end i thought he was talking about
(http://bestguttersaround.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/fsb_soffitsnstuff.25021005_std.jpg)
jim if its the fascia board you doit the same way as i said in the upper post
philly chimney flashing
(http://www.conservationtechnology.com/images/Waterproofing/EPEDGEWallTerminationWithReglet.jpg)
Ok George so what you call barge board is actually the facia boards on the ends. And then the sides your back to calling it facia boards :eyebrownod:
Were starting to match up our color books. :eyebrow:
Now...George, cladding? Seriously? LOL :laf: Can you edit that pic and call it siding?
Oh and that chimney flashing picture...thats pretty much a global gimme. Actually I dont even know any other way to do it.
Quote from: HaMeR on April 18, 2011, 09:16:32 PM
Up & over the fascia as in a porch roof built under your soffit & attached to the house wall. The roofing would then go "up & over the fascia" & onto the roof to be finished off with shingles across the top.
Ohhhhhhhh k. :wo: Now were starting to pick up the pieces HaMeR. :eyebrownod:
I dont have a roof under an eave.....ooooops, I mean facia. I got flat running into what I'm going to call a shingled 8/12. It might be 6/12 but I doubt it. There's no transition, it's just flat to that...hey that ryhmed :biggrin:
But regardless I know how I want to do that. What I'm gimping over is how to do the facia/bargeboard/eave facing Pennsylvania.
When we did shingle roofs, we would rip off the old drip edge, put on new, and then shingle right over the drip edge cutting the shingles off a 1/4" past the drip edge. Which gave them a 1/4 inch to shrink and be flush with the drip edge.
But the dude in this video acts likes he's not even using any drip edge, or if he is...is he doing just like we do shingles and it's underneath? Then he'll cut the rubber flush with the drip edge? Is that the way to do it? Cause he knocked off when he got that far? :laf:
The pic you posted from the video was just a pic for me. It wouldn't play as a video. But it looks like he's glueing that rubber down.
And we are in the same book now. :biggrin: Cut the bottom back & replace the drip edge. Spray it with a roofing primer & let it dry. Then roll the Flint over that & just use your massive a :doh2: foot to walk it down. :laf: :laf: Row after row til you get it to the shingles. Then pull as many shingles out as you need to so you can get it a good 18" +/- up under. Replace the shingles & done.
Flintatstic tips. :eyebrow: Cut your pieces to length on the ground. You'll like this idea when you pick up your 1st roll. DO NOT walk on that stuff when you are cutting the pieces to length. :nofgr: Measure the roll width & snap a chalk line leaving 1/2"- 3/4" hanging over the bottom drip edge. Make each piece 2" longer than needed if you have rake edges for trimming. Buy hook style blades to cut it. The backing plastic is split down the middle. Lay the piece out & adjust it then stand above it & pull the plastic out at a low sharp angle. The product won't move if you're careful. There is also a plastic over the seal strip. This will be the last piece you remove each time. And DO NOT walk on it while the plastic is still on it. :nofgr:
Geeeez,that gave me unbelievable flash backs of the day :sad3:
Thats exactly how we installed the ice guard. To a "T"
In fact the only difference is :shrug: There's is no difference.
That thin film over the adhesive is a sumbitch to get off it gives way while peeling too :doh2:
I used to talk every one of our rookie summer helpers to walk the length of the Ice guard once I got it rolled it, so it would stick down. :alscalls: They never did get both feet on it. And they never did it again.
Hey ya had to teach how dangerous it was, right? :wink:
Ok, it's snowing, sleeting and raining :iroll: There'll be no pics taken up there today :nono:
Sorry Jim I am the owner of a HVAC & R ,not a roofer,
You sound as though your have a back ground in roofing , first let me say I am sorry to hear that.
roofers work in to many harsh condition for me .
but being you have been a roofer I would have thought you would be able to have your questions answer by your suppier. when i read your question it was under the impression you new nothing of roofing , i dont or did i know your work back grouhd and clearly you have been roofing for some time and know about some roofing.
.
So I will just bail out of this one , good luck and if it where me i be torching it down anyway
I don't know if you had a product up there called Grace Ice & Water shield or not. But if you did & ever used it on a hot day you would hate that stuff IMMEDIATELY!! :yoyo: Damn was that stuff sticky.
The Flintastic goes down exactly like the ice guard EXCEPT you really should primer the new drip edge to ensure no wind lift. Both on the bottom & up the rake edges if you have any on this job. That stuff can go over one layer of old rolled roofing if you nail or cut the bubbles out 1st. That stuff really is that good.
I seen a guy get wrapped up in that Grace once on a hot day. I swear by the time the 2 guys that wrapped him up got him unwrapped they were soooooooo apologetic it wasn't even funny. They hurt that poor guy ripping it back off. THAT never happened again either. :rolleye: I'm surprised he didn't find a vacant ripping shovel laying around to exact some revenge. I prolly woulda. :laf:
George, I wasnt trying to demean you in anyway, or run you off. I'm not bashful, I'm pretty sure you've seen me run my mouth when I'm agitated...so you'd know :eyebrownod:
I was however intrigued with the varying terminology on some of this stuff. It's interesting to say the least, how different areas use different names for things. I thought we were all enjoying ourselves. :shrug:
And yes I do have a plenty of experience in roofing. I worked construction for many many many years, part of which included being a licensed subcontractor for Wick.
But...and again I'm not trying to demean you here or anything but if you go back and look at the very first sentence in my very first post (http://forum.finsandfur.net/index.php?topic=14444.msg166939#msg166939) which started this thread, I think you'll see that you may have missed something :wink:
Ok..I got my pics :whew:
Hey HaMeR I was going to ask you, since you've used this before...what was it called again?...Flintstones? :laf:
Will that stuff hold up to ponding? Cause I think thats why rubber was used on this section before. It does pond up.
But here's what were looking at. It's looks like a disaster with the snow melting off it all day in the pic. It's got a 12" overhang with vented soffit.
The silver white area near the right side is where I discovered pin holes this past fall, so I went up and poured sealer over that area. It actually buckled the rubber too :confused: Weird.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/RiverBoy/junk/roof-004.jpg)
Here's a better shot of that transition Im dealing with. Look how that silver sealer buckled the rubber in that area. Some of that is snow but still. Thats nuts.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/RiverBoy/junk/roof-006.jpg)
And then since you got roofer in your blood HaMeR...do you remember a few years ago when Certainteed came out with what they called solid slab shingles?
Man those things were the cats asperatus to all roofers. Finally a one piece, standard sized shingle, with built in spacers. And it was so easy to apply with the spacing a monkey do it. Man they were nice!
Shortly after they came out, Owens Corning was steering towards major financial slumps because apparently the black solid slabs were defective. But it was never declared a major problem until they were literally and completely overwhelmed with legitimate warranty redeeming by thousands of people. It was then that they took them off the market.
Boy did we make a pile of money that year re-roofing all our old jobs for warranty pay. :eyebrow:
Unfortunately we was so busy with that, mine got set on the back burner. So I got stuck with mine.
Look at the difference on this section of the house.
The left side faces directly North, and the right faces directly...well...duh. :innocentwhistle: But look at the difference.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/RiverBoy/junk/roof-005.jpg)
First off I hated to run those damn shingles. I'm glad they are gone. :yoyo: :yoyo:
The rubber buckling like that is most likely the sealer eating the rubber. Now I have no experience with that rubber other than I know it doesn't care for petroleum based products on it for extended periods of time. The little bit of that stuff we did run we cleaned the seams with gas & a rag but that stuff will flash off completely. So that pic makes me wonder if the sealer used was petroleum based.
That is about as straight forward as you can get for a flat to pitch roof scenario. Pull about 4-5 rows of those shingles off the roof. Run the Flintstones :laf: roofing product up 18"-24". You can get that stuff in gray so you'll only need to replace all but one of those rows. Maybe 2. I say this because you'll want to keep your nails up away from the transition/break in the roof pitches. I also said bottom 2 rows so you'll have something to work with on the chimney front.
Now pull off the bottom row of siding on that little front & up the long side. Run the product right up the wall about 8"-10". Silicone across the top & replace the siding. You can reinstall the J-channel with silicone on the back for sealing around the nails when you re-attach it. Not necessary down here because we don't get the snow piling up like you do up there. Just a little CYA if you know what I mean. :eyebrow:
Ponding-- OK. That roof has pitch to it. I can see it from here. insert smilie with binos here :biggrin: With that being said the ponding is across the very bottom. Sounds & looks to me like there is a buildup of drip edgeings or maybe an extra layer of roofing across the bottom foot or so. The other culprit could be if there is insulation board under that roof it's gotten wet enough times that the snow loads has crushed it. I believe looking from here tho it's a buildup of drip edging or extra layers of roofing. Kinda like a starter shingle. One other thought on the bottom is that there is a 1x12 board across the bottom & then they used 1/2" ply or OSB to sheath the rest of the deck. I can see the line across there in pic 1. We see a lot of homes built in the 70's with a 1x6 pine board across the bottom & plywood ran from there up with no drip edge. Our conclusions,, albeit not scientifically proven is that the 1x6 will take the ice dams better than the plywood will & drip edge isn't necessary. That's the point I'm trying to make but I seem to get lost & take the long way around.
The South face always gets hammered with a lot of sun. :biggrin: Now get those changed out too. :laf: :laf:
Anymore questions just fire away. I might be qualified to help but right at the moment I can't find my Certainteed Master Shingler Certification papers to prove it. :confused: I need to find those in case I get called out on that. We never know when a Certainteed rep will show up & ask for at least one of our papers. :laf: :laf: :laf:
:confused: Any idea why you had pinholes in the rubber? There's no gutter above it so that could eliminate icicles. Not totally but it could.
BTW-- Fix your damn porch light. How's the pizza driver sposed to find you?? :laf: :laf:
I'm not sure what those pin holes were from. Age?
How I found them was the gahd damdest way. I was up there looking around last fall cause after a monsoon I had some water dripping inside. I walked around up there and found nothing.
I walked up the shingled part a little bit and looked over the step flashing and stuff, and when I turned around there was water right there on the rubber.
I thought WTF? I just walked over that and it was dry.
So I got a towel, dried it off, and walked over it again. Tiny drops of water started appearing.
I was squeezing water up out of the rubber when I walked right there.
I came to the conclusion that when it was hot those pin holes opened as the rubber expanded, and let the water in, and closed up as it cooled and retracted. :shrug:
How come you didnt like those solid slabs? Mannnnnn I thought those things were sweet.
IF I do go with the Flintstones, I think it'll be pretty much like a regular shingle job, all the way down to the drip edge.
What I was worried about going with rubber, was how to finished the west end of this roof. (side with the ladder) You know?....run the rubber over like a shingle or? The dude in the video ran up to Hooters and never came back. That was just a screen shot by the way. I captured it as the video croaked. Thats why you couldnt click it.
Which reminds me, the step your seeing in the picture is from the prior installation. They nailed the drip edge on top to sort of act like a hem and hold down the rubber, plus give it the finished look. THEN they layed another strip of rubber over the nail line the length of the roof to cover all those.
But thats my main question with the rubber. How to finish that front edge, cause I dont think who ever did it before done it right.
And I even if I do find a 1x6 or something on that leading edge and eliminate it to reduce the step, I can still guarantee ya there's going to be some ponding, especially in the winter.
Thats actually my kitchen, and as you can tell by the height, there's not much room for a lot of insulation. Which means in the winter when there's 6 feet of snow up there and I'm down below sucking on a can of BudLight, making chicken wings in the oven and turkey rolls, there's....ehhhh...you know where I'm going :eyebrownod: So do you know if that stuff can hold up to ponding?
I can check when I go product shopping, just curious if you knew up front. It might eliminate it from the running all together :shrug:
I got pissed off at the ex wife 12 years ago for not shutting that friggin light off at night. I finally went out one night and pulled the damn thing off the side of the house :laf: (can you say anger management) :laf:
Besides thats the backyard.
I didn't like the little hook they had on the end. If the roof had little dips between the trusses they never seemed to line up quite right. They felt way too thin & cheaply made as well. They cut way to easily which lead me to believe they weren't any better than a 20year shingle at the time. Valleys were a pain the rear too. It seemed like I was always stuck doing them all because nobody else took the time they required to stay on line as you went up the valley. And those damn things made my arms itch unlike any other shingle I've been around. :laf: :laf:
Ok back to work now. :biggrin:
I understand exactly how you found that leak. The insulation,, or whatever is under that rubber,, was soaked is all. You jst went up there at the right time & stepped in the right place. Good job. :biggrin:
The leading edge on the west end is really very simple. Get the biggest drip edge you can find. Of have somebody with a break make you some 4"x4" from coil stock. Gutter coil would be best. It's heavier. Tear all the old crap off 1st. Run a 1/2,, or full row,, of ice & water shield on the deck. Put the new metal over that. Have it primed with a roofing primer. the Flintstones roofing will adhere itself to that metal. Forever too I might add. :eyebrow: Continue up the roof row by row. Just like ice & water shield or felt paper. the ponding should go away once the height difference is taken away 7 you'll have free flow to the gutter. That stuff is specifically designed for any roof under,, I think,, a 3/12 pitch. The ice guard on the bottom against the deck is for ice dam buildup. Now you have protection between the drip edge & the wood as well as over the drip edge. Run the product 1/2"-3/4" over the drip edge. Whatever you're comfortable with. The Hooters roofer was PROBABLY<< >> more than likely but I have to ASSume here<< >> going to terminate his leading edge with the same type of metal I mentioned. It's just an L metal with a little kick on the bottom to push the water drops out into the gutter & not behind it. The 4"x4" is also guesswork on my part. Go with what your gutter will allow so you don't have to cut around the brackets.
I would not hesitate to use that product for your application. Not for a second. We've run a lot of that stuff the last 4 years or so & none has come up or leaked that I'm aware of.
Now I will mention one other thing. Right where the pitch break is. Over by the wall. Obviously you won't get anything to double bend right there. Aint gonna happen without a pucker. Make a cut from the bottom of the pucker out at a 45* angle. Shoot the hole full of black jack,, roof cement in a caulking tube,, & push it down & into the wall 1st. Lap the upper part of that cut over the lower part. The black jack will squeeze out of a small hole & that's good. Don't be shy with it. That's just the way it is at that point. Caulk that seam too.
Honestly you have a perfect setup for pitching that roof up to about a 3/12. Start at the front of the chimney & run new rafters to the leading edge. Spike those into the top wall plate & sheath it. Ice guard on the bottom 2 rows for those Wisconsin winters & shingle it up. :yoyo: :yoyo:
:doh2: Yes they did it right by double rubbering the bottom. At least that is the way I see them do it around here.
I know how I'm going to do the pitch break over by the wall. Well, I know how I'm going to try it anyway. The Hooter guy did show me that much :laf:
He ran it along the flat first, then the side wall, and then as he went up the slope he found himself gaining material obviously, so he folded it back on itself on the wall. Kinda like wrapping the ends of a box with Christmas paper. It was pretty sick :eyebrow: No cuts, and if you lift the edge before nailing it or sticking it to the wall, you lose the pucker too. Actually it's under the siding and the roof surface stays down.
You think I can bend Fred and Barney that much? or not?
Another question...why do you keep saying to spray the drip edge with a roofing primer? The stuff comes in aluminum or steel and it's painted. I dont get it. But I do like the idea of making some wider :eyebrow: I got several buddies with their own brakes.
I've talked about running some jack rafters down that thing and eliminating the flat altogether. Yeah it would be real easy, I agree. Problem is, it's going to have to wait until I can afford to do it cause it'll be quite a bit more then repairing this one for now.
Have you heard bad things about the rubber? I've never used it.
But something keeps telling me in the back of my head that no seems is much better then several seems on a flat.
That sounds like a good way to treat the break. Give it a shot. I'm interested in seeing how well it works. That stuff is surprisingly pliable for it's thickness. On a warm day you can do anything you want with it except stretch it. It doesn't stretch. :nono:
Putting a primer on the drip edge makes that seam impenetrable & permanent. The coating/paint on the drip edge isn't the best for holding power. It can let go over time. So we just spray em. You will like wider hand made drip edge too.
I've not heard anything bad about the rubber you have on there now. Other than it doesn't like pteroleum based products on it for long periods of time. The Flintstone stuff I've heard nothing bad about it. But it too stands to reason the exposure to petroluem will eat it. I would not hesitate to use it on my roof in that same situation. There are no granules on the seams so you get a good solid bond when they come into contact with each other. :eyebrow: And I know you know all about great bonds. :eyebrow: :eyebrow:
:laf: :laf:
I would think that the room with the flat roof was a addition added to the home at some point. with the weather you get a wonder why the went with a flat roof at all.
I think it was an addition too George, but I got no evidence. And it's actually the kitchen, I can't imagine them moving all the plumbing to a new room, but hey the flat roof is stupid so who know what they did. :laf:
HaMeR...you must be referring to bare metal drip edge then. Cause you say the paint on the painted can let go anytime.
It wouldnt do any good to prime over the paint then.
:confused: I'll try this again. The paint doesn't let go. The rubber doesn't adhere as strongly to it. The primer is the middle man that makes a permanent bond. Shoulda just said it that way originally I spose. :laf: :laf:
Ahhhhhhh! :yoyo:
Now I'm picking up what your laying down :eyebrownod:
Yeah sometimes I don't splain things very well. :laf: :laf:
I have a small job to do tomorrow with the Flintstone product. Gotta make some money somehow right?? :biggrin: Should take a whole 90 minutes for me & my Buddy & we're gonna drop a bill & a 1/2 on the guy for it. :yoyo: :yoyo:
I gotta wait for ample time to do....ample, you like that?....to do mine. It wont quit raining for 24 hours straight.
:laf: @ ample!! Goodun!! :eyebrow: I usually need plenty of time myself. :laf:
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee217/BrightwoodTurnings/hunting%20photos/flatroof001.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee217/BrightwoodTurnings/hunting%20photos/flatroof004.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee217/BrightwoodTurnings/hunting%20photos/flatroof002.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee217/BrightwoodTurnings/hunting%20photos/flatroof003.jpg)
QuoteGotta make some money somehow right??
Glenn you need to come down this way LOTS of roofs to repair or replace right now.
QuoteShould take a whole 90 minutes for me & my Buddy & we're gonna drop a bill & a 1/2 on the guy for it.
2 roofers 2 hrs a Buck and a 1/2 he got a steal!! That would run 2 and 1/2 here..
Yes there is a lot of work down there. I wouldn't mind having some of it but I know how bad the local workers need that money right now to get there lives back together or to help their Families. I couldn't barge in on them like that. I wouldn't feel right knowing I have a little bit of work here plus my unemployment & they need that money worse. Up here we have storm chasers from all over the place giving us locals a bad name & taking our work. I know how it feels to need & I dodn't like it.
And yes he did get a good deal. On the other hand he also has 2 more small jobs for us to do. :yoyo: :yoyo:
That looks about what I'd expect it to look like :eyebrownod:
Nice work Boys.
Yeah that stuff is nice to work with. We were lucky yesterdat it was in the low 60's & breezy. It kept that stuff from sticking immediately. It can be hard to tuck that stuff up under the shingles at the top. We had heavy rains around 2:30 this AM & haven't gotten a phone call so that's good. :biggrin: And Thanks. Jarrod is a good worker & purdy smart in a common sense way. I always get him to help when I need it.
That is a nice looking job Glenn and a piss poor job the original worker did. That thing had to have leaked from day one? I am surprised there is no wood damage under that?
We have been lucky in this area that construction has been busier here than most places around the U.S. This will put even more work in our area. It has torn a lot of business and factories down. I work as a Commercial plumber but we do have a crew that does some residential plumbing and they my be busy also on the rebuilding.
Most rubber roofs I work around and roll roofing projects are 15,000 square feet and up in most cases, I deal with them a lot on roof drain systems and gas lines to RTU's.
Here is the last roll roofing job I was on.
Starting from the top
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Plumbrich/FnF/100_9773-1.jpg)
Cutting in the roof drain openings
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Plumbrich/FnF/fromiphone059.jpg)
Long way down 36 feet
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Plumbrich/FnF/100_9792.jpg)
Moving to the next set of drains to install
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Plumbrich/FnF/100_9861.jpg)
Installed pipe to roof drains upper deck 36'
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Plumbrich/FnF/100_9877.jpg)
Installed roof drains lower deck 19'
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Plumbrich/FnF/100_9840.jpg)
Roofers laying down insulation then insulating board then tar then roll roofing.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Plumbrich/FnF/fromiphone002.jpg)
Then sealing off my roof drains
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Plumbrich/FnF/June222010936.jpg)
Job complete and gas piping installed on new roof.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Plumbrich/FnF/June222010935.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Plumbrich/FnF/June222010940.jpg)
I don't have a picture of the roof but here is one of me 4 years ago when I was installed some roof drains on the roof of a 12 story building. they used roll roofing on these.
12 story building.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Plumbrich/FnF/12story.jpg)
Ledges that the roof was replaced on and i was standing on to install new drains.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Plumbrich/FnF/roofledge.jpg)
Self portrait of myself while working up there. :laf:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Plumbrich/FnF/me12stories.jpg)
I know it was the WRONG thing to do but I took my hard hat and safety harness/lines off to take the picture. :doh2:
Highest roof system I have worked on is 20 stories and that is a HELL of a long way up for a guy that's scared of heights. :huh:
Thanks Richard. The original work was done by the home owner. He did roll out ice & water shield as an underlayment & that was the only thing that saved him. The only wet wood was at the very bottom by the gutter. The ice guard let go from the drip edge,, no primer on the drip edge,, & the drip edge actually stuck out about 3/8" past the shingles & the water would run back over the drip edge & come down thru the soffit. And there was an outlet box in the soffit. :laf:
I've been on a couple 3 story flat roofs here. One steel mill & one steel handling building. The highest I've been up was 5 stories on a shingle roof that pitched up another 2 stories to the peak. I guess I've been up 7 stories total. 20 is a helluva long ways up there. Last summer when we went to Canada for a week a Friend of ours tried to get me a crane ride on a skyscraper crane. It was 27 stories to the roof top & another 12 to the crane seat. He told me if he could get me a ride that he wasn't gonna let me back out. I told him if he got me a ride on it I would call him from up there & he could talk to the operator. :yoyo: :yoyo: It didn't pan out but I know he tried.
Those drains & drain pipes look well installed. I like the finished look of the plumbing systems. It shows the workers care about what they do. And that rolled rubber looks like the kind they put down with a propane torch. If so I've had the pleasure & honor of burning off several sets of shoelaces plus arm & leg hair on that stuff. :laf: :laf:
I'm trying to get on with a flat roof company right now too. I wouldn't mind doing that job at all.
Quote from: CCP on May 01, 2011, 12:05:58 PM
Self portrait of myself while working up there. :laf:
I know it was the WRONG thing to do but I took my hard hat and safety harness/lines off to take the picture. :doh2:
He wanted to make sure they had a good picture for the family to identify his body with when or if he fell of that :laf:
Revisiting this.........Since I wont have any kids this weekend and I'm caught up more or less on my client sites, and everyone else will be getting drunk and tearing up my river :iroll: I MIGHT try to tackle this job.
HaMeR, I'm being told the Flintastic is a 3 ply system :confused: base, middle sheet, and cap. Was I just not picking up on this before or am I missing something?
Plus from what I've read, it's for pitches greater then 2/12
I'm doubting this job of mine has a pitch much more then .75/12 :shrug:
:confused: I've not heard of it being a 3 ply system around here. Our Winters aren't nearly as severe as yours tho & I know that dictates changes in building materials. With the sticky back,, like ice guard,, I would think a base layer 1st would not allow the product to stick to the deck. Unless that base layer is ice guard. :confused: I aint afraid to admit ya got me on this one!! :biggrin:
Do me a favor and point me to the exact product on the net, maybe I'm looking at something different.
When I look at Flintastic's site, I see, a nailbase, a plybase, a midply, and a cap sheet. All self adhering.
Will do!! :biggrin:
That is the same stuff we use. We sweep the deck squeaky clean, prime the drip edge, allow it to dry then roll the product out right on top of the wood. Actually we did it that way again this afternoon on a small roof of maybe 50 sq/ft with a very low pitch. It may have qualified as a 1/12 pitch. I know it wasn't dead flat but it sure wanted to be. The Certainteed video has also not been updated. You no longer need to tar the end seams. Just roll em out good.
Are you sure you dont work for Certainteed? :laf:
:laf: The guy I work for does have a very good relationship with them. :eyebrownod: :eyebrownod: We've been asked twice in the 20 years I've worked there for our opinions on their products. :biggrin: The Certainteed Rep has also taken us to breakfast 4 or 5 times as well. :biggrin:
Does that mean anything?? :laf: :laf:
I just know I like this stuff & we've had no failures with it.
Today we were working on a small job where they were using the rubber roofng and I took some pictures while up there installing my gas and venting sleeves.
I know your project is on a lot larger scale but hope this small 40,000 + square foot job helps. :laf:
I will get some more pictures of how they finish out the parapet tomorrow.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Plumbrich/43425e48.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Plumbrich/ccfe2de1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Plumbrich/d874648f.jpg)
Insulation before rubber
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Plumbrich/ff312efa.jpg)
Rolling it out
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Plumbrich/fb417d6f.jpg)
Screwing down the seams
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Plumbrich/87cc5564.jpg)
Sealing the seams
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Plumbrich/662a972b.jpg)
Sorry these were took with my camera phone somebody decided to STEAL my camera Friday out of my truck. it was HOT as hell up there with a temp of 108 on the roof and 106 inside the building. Fortunately it was only 98 outside in the shade. :holdon:
Will get finished pictures tomorrow this is a 2 day job for these guys.
Yeah, yeah, I'm on a much larger scale. :laf:
Someone stole your camera? For real? :doh2:
Yeap Friday it got stolen out of my truck. Had that camera for 5 years and thousands of pictures taken. Can't afford a real good one right now will have to pick up something in the 100.00 range to get me through at work.
Richard, I saw that picture of you in that scissor lift. Just as I suspected, ridin around gettin high on the job site. :rolleye: :laf:
Well Boss, have you got your rubber on yet?
I had to ask. :laugh2: :laugh2:
:nono: Nope. I was gonna do it Friday but it threatened rain. Plus I can't find anyone locally that knows anything about the Flintlastic...and which one of the 6 or 7 products lines I need, and whether or not it handle a 1/12 pitch with melting snow.
To top it off, I just got slammed with every software update known to man from every software developer. Forums and sites. :laf:
Meaning every web site I manage for clients, has to be gone through and new software installed to assure it's security, then verify compatibility before going to the next.
Knocking a few off each night, I'm gonna be here a while. :innocentwhistle:
Quote from: 5 SHOTS on June 14, 2011, 11:56:37 AM
Well Boss, have you got your rubber on yet?
I had to ask. :laugh2: :laugh2:
:doh2: Now why did ya go & ask that Art??!! :alscalls: :alscalls:
The biggest reason I kept putting this off is because I wasn't convinced I could afford to do it. Now that it's done, I'm very convinced I could not afford it. Barely under $400 for this DIY project and the roof was 10 x 16 dead nuts. :doh2:
Anyway...I decided to go with the EPDM Rubber again. Mainly because I just cannot fathom any kind of lapped rolled roofing on a flat roof up here with snow setting on the roofs 5 months out of the year, and ponding water for 2.
Plus no one up here had any idea where to buy the Flintastic, and no one carried it. Which makes me wonder if it's even available up here in the Tundra.
No during pics. It was so ad nab hot up there I just wanted to get done. I actually started getting nauseous, and had to come down for a couple hours yesterday. Picked a bad to to start it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/RiverBoy/junk/roof-002.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/RiverBoy/junk/roof-001.jpg)
I tore the shingles back on that slope about 3 foot up, and then continued to run the rubber up the side wall there about 2 feet. Which is the typical snow line there.
I didn't want any nail holes below 14". So the last two pieces of siding arent even nailed, they are hooked and siliconed on.
The cement blocks are holding that 8 by 8 flashing down on the roof until the adhesive dries, which I didnt want any nail holes in either.
I dont think any water will get in it there this time, with the rubber 2 foot up the wall, then the 8x8 flashing on top of that, starting 3 foot up the pitched roof and running all the way down to the end of the wall....plus step flashing on top of that :eyebrow:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/RiverBoy/junk/roof-003.jpg)
The leak was actually right in that corner, where the slope, the flat, and the wall all meet. Whoever did it cut the side rubber down to the roof so it would take to the slope, which left a nice trough for any water coming in behind the J channel. :iroll:
I just folded the rubber, and buried it behind the siding and left all nails 14" up. :eyebrownod:
That looks a whole lot better right there. Good job :yoyo: :yoyo:
Yep, looks just like I'd a done er. :biggrin:
The lawn looks perty good too. ;yes;
Are you saying that Scott because of the F150 tracks in the yard? :laf:
Hey it was a lot easier to unload OSB by driving into the yard. :eyebrownod: Plus the road crew even banked gravel up to my driveway so I could drive in with my big load of construction materials. :alscalls:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/RiverBoy/junk/driveway.jpg)
:laf: :laf:
Looks like you're puttin up with crap on your street like we are too.
They tore up the bottoms of our drives too, they put in a tile behind
the curb that all our sump pumps run in to, now they re did the bottoms
of our drives which we can't drive on for like 5 days, then they're gonna
re surface the road. Pain while they're doin it, but I guess nice when
they're all done.
Yea, were anticipating this to be done and over with too. I am NOT looking forward to what that'll do to my tax bill though.