Well, the duck call guys are at it in a big way LOL Three pages and counting.
http://www.customcalls.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1171853716
Here is just one quote
"If we're speaking about toneboards, honestly, if they can't make their own - maybe they need to rethink their hobby/business - and turn pretty rolling pins? "
The thread was just winding down when this was posted. Talk about pouring gas on the fire.
So anyway, now you know it's not just the Predator Call Makers that get riled up on this issue LOL
Al
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com
Member - Custom Call Makers & Collectors Guild & Call Makers & Collectors Association of America
QuoteI guess my main point is that I feel people dont put in the time to truly become a call maker before they are calling themselves a Custom Call maker. There is a lot of drama about this anymore - two sides of thought. I just feel people are taking the quick way out to make a buck, and its not doing the art and science of call making any good. I say get in there, make some scrap, learn what you can, and go to town, then its all you and all yours. Once your accomplished - the short cuts become materials rather than products and a time saver cause you know what youre doing.
Damn, was that a rock that just hit me in the back of the head. :confused:
Well just finished reading the whole thing Al. Thanks its a good read with some very good points, and some that the predator call makers can use. :congrats:
i like it were i'm at now. i guess i'm a call maker. i need to get two jig's again now that i have a good band saw before kept breaking the blade's got frustrated. when i get the new shop up that real help a bunch. Rickl
If you try to cut your tone boards on a band saw, you will go broke buying blades. That blade hits your jig one time and it is toast.
Get yourself a Scroll Saw and use Hook Tooth Blades, about 6 tpi. You will only be able to cut out about 8 pr 9 toneboards per blade, but at a buck a blade, vs 30 for a band saw blade, it is a lot cheaper and just as fast. Safer too.
Al
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com
Member - Custom Call Makers & Collectors Guild & Call Makers & Collectors Association of America
they have beat that dead horse many times over the last few years.
steve
Good read again though!
Brent
An easy fix for the jigs is to round off the edges of the jig so the blade will not be able grab on to the jig.
I agree with both sides of the issue. I believe that a true high dollar custom call should have a custom reed as well. But I also like pouring boards. There is an art in each. But definitely more in cutting your own.
That's a good tip Matt, but the issue is when the blade touches anywere on the jig, and I can assure you, having made hundreds of tone boards on a band saw, it will happen. I even bought a cheap band saw for just tone boards, Cheap in that I could get blades for 8 or 9 bucks. But the scroll saw works much much better, and it is safer. Besides, everyone can use a new tool LOL.
Al
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com
Member - Custom Call Makers & Collectors Guild & Call Makers & Collectors Association of America
I agree, gives me an excuse to the wife to buy a new toy........woohoo
I've made quite a few using a bandsaw without any problems, and I just have a small cheap Ryobi(sp?). :confused:
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c59/PAyotehunter/ToneBoard002.jpg)
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c59/PAyotehunter/ToneBoard001.jpg)
Aaron,
They're talking about running a bandsaw across the face of a jig to shape the toneboard.
I also use a bandsaw sometimes to put the starting angle on my antler calls. Sometimes my acrylic too. I use channel locks or vicegrips though. That thing scares the hell out of me. I like to keep my fingers as far from that blade as I can and still maintain control.
The rest of the time I use a bench grinder and I still use a hacksaw on occation.
Brad
A coping saw works well too if you are going to do it by hand....very easy to turn/twist etc........I cut my antler calls tone boards on a band saw...free hand with no jig...but I make sure my antler is PLENTY long to keep my hands away from the saw....it scares me too!! I also use a scroll saw when using a jig... :hahaha: 'course I mold many of mine too, oops...did I say that?? :innocentwhistle: :shck: :holdon:.....
been wanting a scrollsaw. that would be cheaper. i'm not into the wooden toneboard's. they seem to deaden the sound compared to Delrin or acrylic just my opinion. Rick
Have a scroll saw but the blades kept breaking on the jig. Use a band saw but it is scary, even with a jig. With a band saw the cut is pretty flat. The duck call jig thread is interesting. Alway love to see people agonize over what is a custom call and who is a "true" call maker.
Someday, when my buddy gets my jig built maybe I can break my bandsaw blades and get a scroll saw. :wo: But right now I doing it by hand and eyeball.
In the other tone board thread here, I said something about how its acceptable to use a pre-made (JC reed) in an enclosed reed call but not in a open reed call. Someone replied with a long winded post about how they used to make there own reeds for closed reed calls and how it was very hard and time consuming and then the times changed and it became acceptable to use pre-made reeds. Well maybe times are-a-changing again. :wo:
I have not researched it but from just looking at others calls it seems the majority use pre-made tone boards. :shrug:
EDIT, for spelling
maybe I am a bit different, but I don't use a bandsaw, scroll saw, or coping saw at all when I do my toneboards. Just the good ol' belt sander works fine for me on delrin to get in down to shape.
I am wandering how well that technique will fair when I get in some acrlylic rod for toneboards.
Brian
i think i my Tone board's compliment my call's if that make's any since. my call's are kinda stream lined. i dont like big tone board's.alot of the tone board's that guy's are making noe to me are gawdy. take's a way from the look's of the call's. the toneboard's i'm using kick's butt for sound.why change. there are great style's of toneboard's to.when the are sanded and made to match the look of the call's. if i'm not a custom call maker then i'm not myself Rick Robbins. not mad not angry. just HAPPY. Rick :yoyo:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v68/bearmanric/ebuynz002.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v68/bearmanric/DSC01102.jpg)
Rick
ome dat I hope to be able to make calls like you, so until then I will always have a goal to achieve.
Bryan
Rick,
I never heard any of your calls but they look great and the tone board flows into the call body real well.
They look great.
Aaron
QuoteIn the other tone board thread here, I said something about how its acceptable to use a pre-made (JC reed) in an enclosed reed call but not in a open reed call.
Folks who make statements like the one above, do not really understand what goes into making a custom call. I know that when I first started making calls, I felt pretty much the same way. Todd even mentioned that it appeard that I did not tune my reeds back then.
If a collector can tell the difference, then there must be more to it than just sticking a Jc Reed in a peice of wood with a hole in it. And over time, I learned there was. I hope you do so also.
QuoteSomeone replied with a long winded post about how they used to make there own reeds for closed reed calls and how it was very hard and time consuming and then the times changed and it became acceptable to use pre-made reeds.
that was Ladobe
QuoteWell maybe times are-a-changing again.
Yes, I have to agree. For when a master call maker like Ladobe gives his opinion in a thread, and all that is rememberd is that it was "long winded", then the times are a changing - And maybe not for the better. IMO
I think the issue of molded tone boards comes down to this simple question -
Why are you making calls?
There is no right or wrong asnwer, as long as you answer it honestly, and each answer will be as individual as the people who ask it.
Like any endevor we truly love, we go through stages. Where one man is today is not indicative of where he will be tomorrow.
Robert Frost sums up all of life in hsi poem "The Road Not Taken", and I think it can apply to our call making too. For in the end, the road not taken will make all the difference.
TWO roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;
Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that, the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,
And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I marked the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way
I doubted if I should ever come back.
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
And so it will be with how you are remembered as a call maker. The beauty of course, is that the choice is yours and yours alone to make. And no one can fault you for your own opionins - even though they might disagree with them.
Al
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com
Member - Custom Call Makers & Collectors Guild & Call Makers & Collectors Association of America
Well said Al......well said.
Joe
Nicely put Al.
Loren
Al,
QuoteIf a collector can tell the difference, then there must be more to it than just sticking a Jc Reed in a peice of wood with a hole in it. And over time, I learned there was. I hope you do so also.
I blade and tune my JC reeds to the sound I like. :shrug:
Did I say I just stick a reed in a hole? :confused:
Quotewhen a master call maker like Ladobe gives his opinion in a thread, and all that is rememberd is that it was "long winded"
Pardon my ignorance but I do not know who Ladobe is.
QuoteWhy are you making calls?
There are a few answers to that question.
1: I always had a strong passion for hunting and when I started predator hunting in the late 80's that passion grew even stronger. It keeps me more involved with something I love to do.
2: I thought it would be great to call in a fox or coyote with a call I made myself....and it is.
3: I saw custom made closed reed calls being sold for $65.00 and having an idea of how they were made, I thought that was VERY salty. I still feel that way. I know my calls are not "show pieces" and that is why they are priced about the same as mass produced production calls.
I would rather my calls were not on someones shelf, but rather on a lanyard or in someones glove box.
Aaron
QuoteQuote
If a collector can tell the difference, then there must be more to it than just sticking a Jc Reed in a peice of wood with a hole in it. And over time, I learned there was. I hope you do so also.
I blade and tune my JC reeds to the sound I like.
Did I say I just stick a reed in a hole?
Aaron I don't think Al is singling you out, I think hes speaking in general (I Might be wrong). This going to be blunt but factual. A MAJORITY of call spinners do just that "sticking a Jc Reed in a peice of wood with a hole in it". Some aer doing this to collect a quick buck, some are doing it to see if its the niche they want and can improve at, some are improving, and theres the ones........... that try,try again, learn, and in the process better their calls and better their call making abilities, turn out a fine product and in the process and to the end........................................are teaching others and spreading wisdom.
QuoteQuote
when a master call maker like Ladobe gives his opinion in a thread, and all that is rememberd is that it was "long winded"
Pardon my ignorance but I do not know who Ladobe is.
This statement isn't about the fact that ya don't know Ladobe, its about the fact that Ladobe wrote a very good reply with great bits of information, and alls you mentioned remembering about it, was that it was "long winded".
These post aren't meant as attacks, they are meant as informtional. If your feeling attacked, then re-evaulate yourself, because its hitting home somewhere. If they reply is on the defense or attack, well then re-evaluate yourself, your missing the big picture.
I'de say 60% of call spinners are in just building calls (15% of these are just in it for a quick buck), 20% are making calls, and 10% are mastering it. Whats this boile down to? Well look at the PM auctions a few months ago, when they were running the big auction boom. There were ton of auctions that were running and not moving much, but everytime Pilgrim placed a call, they went fast and high. Kinda made the other calls look inadequate. Patrick sorry to drop your name, I was attempting to make a point. For those wondering I'd place Patrick in the 20% group, with a big emphasis on a destiny to MASTER. I really don't care for the auctions on a full time basis, but the gives you call spinners a good indication on where your calls rate over all.
Man I have a ton I'de like to touch on but time is an issue.
Hey Aaron do you remember who was selling closed reeds for $65?
At the risk of sounding like a "kiss-butt", I'm going to chime in because threads like this one are valuable to newcomers like me. Not only are we newbies trying to develop style, skill, and improve the quality of our calls, we are also learning about attitude. My impression is that there are two camps; quality vs. commerce. :nofgr: No, I am NOT saying those who crank out calls in large volume are not interested in quality. We're talking impressions here and my impression is that some guys want a name to sell calls while others sell calls to make their name.
Every now and then I see a call I gave someone a year ago. I'm embarrassed. I guess I should reflect on how much improvement I've made but all I can think is; "Glad I didn't sign it!" Yeah, I'd like to sell my calls someday (already have my logo designed) but not yet. Just not ready.
I appreciate the honesty put forth on this thread. I wish their was some type of category on one of these boards were a fellow could post a call and get an honest evaluation. Maybe a poll type rating or something. I've seen some postings of calls that looked plum nasty. But because most guys on the boards are polite, nothing but praise is given. I suppose this is meant to offer encouragement. But fellas, these guys who are making calls that look like 18th century sex toys really need someone to stand up and say something.
Randy
I agree with Randy. Maybe there should be a place where you can post calls you have made just for the purpose of having them critiqued. Just a suggestion.
Bryan
Randy,
You are absolutly correct. I see posts where people post a pic of a call they made and are asking for feedback, I can not remember anyone ever posting a negative comment.
I know what you are saying about looking at calls you made when you started. I still have a bunch of calls I made when I started and think "man I'm glad I never sold these!"
Aaron
i hate the auction's. but to say who i concider the great newer callmaker's would be Pilgrim .Ridgeviewer and moose. they have class to me. man i wish this shop was done already. i have some great idea's to try. no laminate's that's not me. did i say i hate the auction's it was mainly a bullshit session for a certaian group . the auction's are better now. i asked to put them in there own little sub forum. didnt happen. Ladobe i concider a elder and Jay Nessitter people to learn from. Jay helped me with tuning the closed Reed's no i dont just pop them in. Rick
Todd,
QuoteAaron I don't think Al is singling you out, I think hes speaking in general (I Might be wrong).
Al responded to quotes from me. I figured he was talking in general, but also to me. :confused: Does that make sense??
QuoteThis going to be blunt but factual. A MAJORITY of call spinners do just that "sticking a Jc Reed in a piece of wood with a hole in it".
I could not say what others do, but will take your word.
The JC reeds sound OK "out of the bag" and will produce like that. Maybe some people like the "factory" sound. :shrug:
Are the JC reeds tuned before they get inserted in mass produced calls??
Everone is different...."beauty is in thee eye of the beholder", "different strokes for different folks", so on and so on..
Someone could make a closed reed call and think....that's an "ok" call.
Someone could receive that same call and think....WOW! that is awesome.
Someone else could receive that same call and think....Thats nice, but I can do that and improve it here.
QuoteThis statement isn't about the fact that ya don't know Ladobe, its about the fact that Ladobe wrote a very good reply with great bits of information, and alls you mentioned remembering about it, was that it was "long winded".
Like I said I never heard of Ladobe, I do not know who he is. I remembered reading someones post that was in response to my post about the acceptance of using a pre-made reed in an enclosed reed call. The other thing I remembered was it was a looong post.
QuoteThese post aren't meant as attacks, they are meant as informational. If your feeling attacked, then re-evaulate yourself, because its hitting home somewhere. If they reply is on the defense or attack, well then re-evaluate yourself, your missing the big picture.
I do not feel anyone is "attacking" me, were just talking here. This is the internet, I do not take anything typed personal.
I see the big picture quite clear.
I understand some guys have been doing this a long time and would like to be known as the first one to do 'this or that'.
In the world of hunting predator hunting we are a minority, its getting bigger but still is the low man on the totem pole.
QuoteHey Aaron do you remember who was selling closed reeds for $65?
Yes, I will send you a PM.
Aaron
"Every now and then I see a call I gave someone a year ago. I'm embarrassed."
That sure rings a bell. Especially when I started, there was a fast improving period. I did a lot of experimenting and every time I came up with a style I liked better weather it was tone board angle, air channel size, body length, air trough depth or length, a combo of all that and finish, or whatever, I wished all the previous ones were just like it.
That's a sign of improving, and wanting to improve IMO.
"I've seen some postings of calls that looked plum nasty. But because most guys on the boards are polite, nothing but praise is given."
That's what Ladobe calls "canned praise", (I love that term).
There's nothing wrong with it, but it deprives a call maker of the honest opinion he might be asking for. At best a call maker will be able to see through it and make adjustments if nothing sells at that time. At worst there could be some crying in some form which will lead to sympathy sales which is no way to sell a call.
Granted, there are times calls just won't sell no matter what. But I think if a call maker wants constructive criticism and an honest opinion, he should get it, and I think this board is a great place to get it.
Brad
I too agree on the constructive critisism, but ya still have to be careful. Some folks don't want it, and others miss read into the post and its intentions. I'll still offer it on most cases and a few I won't, but the best way to get it is ask for it, and be open.
PM replied back Aaron.
QuoteThe JC reeds sound OK "out of the bag" and will produce like that. Maybe some people like the "factory" sound.
Are the JC reeds tuned before they get inserted in mass produced calls??
Everone is different...."beauty is in thee eye of the beholder", "different strokes for different folks", so on and so on..
Someone could make a closed reed call and think....that's an "ok" call.
Someone could receive that same call and think....WOW! that is awesome.
Someone else could receive that same call and think....Thats nice, but I can do that and improve it here.
No not all the JC reeds sound ok out of the box, and you'll be lucky to find two out of 50 that sound like in the same call body, ok, well to the human ear, maybe two a like out of 20. :wink:
The folks that like the factory sound aren't looking at your custom calls they are looking at a $7 Johnny Stewart call!
The rest of that statement makes perfect sense and I can't debate that. :wink:
Anyone want to tackle the placement of the reed in the call, the shape of the barrel, the shape of the mouth piece for allowing air through, back pressure, or any of the finer notes that effect the use or sound of the call?
Now the rovin' gambler he was very bored
He was tryin' to create a next world war
He found a promoter who nearly fell off the floor
He said I never engaged in this kind of thing before
But yes I think it can be very easily done
We'll just put some bleachers out in the sun
And have it on Highway 61.
(Bob Dylan - Highway 61)
This isn't getting anywhere, nor will it.
See ya in the bleachers.
Al
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com
Member - Custom Call Makers & Collectors Guild & Call Makers & Collectors Association of America
QuoteSee ya in the bleachers.
Al,
You opinion and input is important. Please leave your jersey on.
I'm open minded and the things I post are just my thoughts & feelings at this time.
Nothing is carved in stone.
Aaron
Aaron,
You have an amazing taletn with wood. Your laminating is very well done, and you work with beautiful woods. Your future as a call maker is only limited by the company you keep and your desire to push the envelope.
But you must decide where you want to go as a call maker. I wont change your mind, nor will anyone else. It is up to each of us to choose what we want to accomplish wth everything we do, not just call making.
That being the case, there is nothing to be gained from arguing about this stuff. If there is ever anything I can lend you a hand, my e mail and the PM function are always available.
Just because we are not on the same page when it comes to making calls, does not mean we have to close the book altogether, but it might be time to set it down for a bit.
Al
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com
Member - Custom Call Makers & Collectors Guild & Call Makers & Collectors Association of America
Al,
Thank you for the kind words, coming from you it means a LOT. I know what your saying and respect that.
Thanks for your offer of help I may take you up on it. I've been stuck in a rut lately, not sure why. :confused:
Untill the next chapter then.
Thanks again
Aaron
One thing that was brought to me when I started making calls, that always stuck with me..................
You haft to spend the time to learn the trade, you need to research the other calls that have been made, and you must make a solid product to meet what the buyer is looking for!
I made a call once that was close to the same as another call maker. Not on purpose but it happended, this changed my call making for ever, and some that have been around for a long time will remember this. I took a fence to the post and it went into a all out war between me and several call makers. But after it was all over and I calmed down, and took a look at what they said. I understood why he was up set and why they said what they did. And when I under stood and done the research! I new why the other call maker was mad and for good reason.
Take the time to research you work and those before you. Learn to understand what has been done and why. Learn about the reeds and how they are made and the history there in them. The wood, the finishes, the callmakers. Then step back and think on it......
No matter what you think, there is more to this than a piece of wood or reed! It has roots! Oh, and I still have that call Todd!,,,lol ( it will never be sold) That was my word and I stood by it!.....Hint! I keep that call in the case, when ever I get in a slump or under pressure I take a look at that call, it reminds me of my roots and my start!
Guys like I said there is allot more to this than meets the eye to allot of us. Don't take this as giving out a hard road to hoe, call making has roots that took many years to build. Its not all about what looks good, or is collectable or what ever. This sport as I like to think of it has many years of builders!
Brent
Well said Brent. Callmaking is an Art form that should be preserved. Not one that should be manipulated just to be a money maker. All callmakers should study the history of calls and callmaking to truly appreciate the art and understand all of the things that go into making a call. Brian.
reading all of these posts between these and the old tone board thread. I have only made a few calls and all have been howlers. the reason I started making my own was because i knew I could improve on what was allready out there. I messed around with a few different boards and I like the sound of em. I learned a good bit about what certian things to do to make them sound different. in the end I became a better caller because of it. mainly because of calling all the time to try to get different sounds out of each one. even calls that I get from others I make em fit to my needs. I am unsure if others do this or not. but if you other callmakers rework something even if it is just cutting a reed a certian way or a thicker reed do you tell the callmaker to help him make his product better? or am I on my own in doing this? :shrug: I now I had told this to another callmaker that his howler seemed to work better with a thicker reed in it and he got really upset. I am interested in what others think on this.
Quotebut if you other callmakers rework something even if it is just cutting a reed a certian way or a thicker reed do you tell the callmaker to help him make his product better?
Ben,
I'm always open to thoughts & opinions.
I like a higher pitched howler, so I make mine that way. If you like a lower pitched howler and know how to do it, then by all means alter it to your preference.
You altered the call I made for you and gave me feedback on why & what you did to it. You did not offend me in any way, I appreciate ANY feedback from people that get a call from me.
QuoteI now I had told this to another callmaker that his howler seemed to work better with a thicker reed in it and he got really upset.
I bet I know who that was. :eyebrownod:
I am pretty sure you know who it was. his defense was that if I changed the call in anyway then it was not one of his calls but a bastard call.
I still need to get ya pics of it yet. I knew that you where not mad about it.