Well, I haven't posted in a while, I thought I could count on yall to talk me out of a purchase. While in a pawn shop here local, I found a Marlin lever guide model of a .450. Now all of a sudden, I gotta have it. Dont know why, I lost my deer lease, but its all I can think about. This happens ever so often, I buy the item and all is good. Realistically what could I need with this gun living in Tennessee? I think its crazy myself, but I get struck with stupid sometimes also. Help! RP
Well, I'm afraid I won't be much help in talking you out of buying it. I've got the same problem.
When I was up in Alaska visiting Tikanni, I got introduced to a Marlin lever guide gun in 45/70. I've been salivating over buying one ever since. I don't need it. We don't have grizzlies in KY. But I sure want one awfully bad.
Yeah, I do believe you've come to the WRONG place for help and emotional support. And in regards to "need"...... since when has THAT ever discouraged a rifle looney? :laf:
I speak from experience brother man..... if you have an itch, scratch it!
I've got a Marlin .444 that is a hoot. Bowls hawgs over like bowling pins.
I bet you have feral hawgs in TN..... .450 Marlin would be some good medicine for what ails ya. :biggrin:
QuoteRealistically what could I need with this gun living in Tennessee?
ZOMBIES... really, really big Zombies!!! :eyebrow:
Quote...but its all I can think about
Like FOs... I'm a 444 Marlin owner... do I
NEED it? Maybe, maybe not but... hey, sometimes we just need to scratch the itch. :wink:
Well, if you really want to be talked out of it . . . . go in and ask if you can try the gun out. Take one round and load her up. Then lean back against the largest tree that you can find (you wouldn't want the recoil to shove you back) and then fire that one round. Then make your decision. :innocentwhistle:
Jerry
Dang, is the recoil that bad? I had a .35 remmy. this does look ballistically like a step up. How about $475 out the door for a price?
Here's a few words of wisdom from someone who knows a bit about big bores and lever actions:
“When we approach 2,000 fps in either the .45-70 or .450 Marlin, recoil gets to be a bit brisk. While the recoil would not be a bother in a hunting situation, the porting and recoil pad do an excellent job of making the .450 Marlin "enjoyable" off the bench.†~John Taffin
More:
The .450 Marlin A Magnum In Disguise by John Taffin
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_6_47/ai_74033118/
:wink:
Thanks Chet. That article didnt help my problem, it fed it. :eyebrow: What should one pay for such a bruiser?
If you need ammo for that .450, try these:
Buffalo Bore 405gr 1,975fps and 3,507 ft lbs ( that should take care of any hog in TN)
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=43
Their 45/70 loads go to 3,597 ft lbs. which is just slightly more than the .450
Ya know how to skin grizz pilgrim?
Help talk you out of buying a gun, sorry can't help you with that. :nono: If you need encouragement when buying one, then I can help. :eyebrownod:
John
Personally, a hot loaded .444 Marlin is about all I want to handle in a lever action. The lever gun stock design, dimensions, ergo, etc. just seems to accentuate felt recoil.
I shot a Winchester 94 Timber Carbine .450 Marlin loaded up with hot loaded Buffalo Bore ammunition (450gr. if memory serves correctly) once......
That combo will knock some fillings loose!
Quote from: Mallardsr on December 09, 2011, 09:35:13 PM
Ya know how to skin grizz pilgrim?
I can skin em just as fast as you can find em
That would be like me asking someone to talk me out of buying a predator call, lol! Good luck with that! :alscalls:
Only thing that makes a Tennessean feel better than buying a 450 is buying one for a poor Alabamian.
I will PM you the address of my local FFL I use, and don’t forget a case of those boolit’s Semp mentioned.. :readthis:
All jokes aside you really need to get the 450. A few guys mentioned BIG hogs are in the LBL and I would feel much safer if you were totin the 450, I don’t think my little machine gun can handle’em by itself.
Also when you talk to people about your coyote addiction at least half of them tell you about the wolves and Black Panthers that live behind their Grandma’s house. Now do you really want anything less than a 450 while encountering one of those?? :shrug:
I had originally written a reply with the reasons you should by a new gun but when I went to post it a warning popped up "Not enough bandwidth" So I guess it was a little long. :biggrin:
Wolves and panthers... :shock2: OH MY!!! And let's not forget those pink elephants that have been seen from time to time. :wink:
Recoil depends on the weight of the rifle, etc., but this will give you a quick overview of the recoil for several different calibers and different weight rifles.
Caliber Rifle Weight Recoil (lbs)
.17 HMR (17 at 2550) 7.5 0.2
.22 LR (40 at 1165) 4 0.2
.223 Rem. (55 at 3200) 7 4.1
.22-250 Rem. (55 at 3600) 8.5 4.2
.243 Win. (100 at 2960) 7.25 9.3
.270 Win. (130 at 3140) 8 16.5
7mm-08 Rem. (140 at 2860) 7.5 14.6
7mm WSM/SAUM (160 at 2795) 8 22.4
7mm Rem. Mag. (140 at 3150) 8 23.5
.30 Carbine (110 at 1990) 7 3.8
.30-30 Win. (150 at 2400) 7.5 11.7
.308 Win. (165 at 2700) 7.5 17.9
.30-06 Spfd. (165 at 2900) 8 22.5
.300 Win. Mag. (180 at 2920) 8 26.5
.300 Wby. Mag. (180 at 3190) 8.5 34.7
.338 Win. Mag. (225 at 2780) 9 33.6
.338 Win. Mag. (250 at 2660) 9 29
.340 Wby. Mag. (250 at 2860) 9.5 43.2
.340 Wby. Mag. (250 at 2963) 10.9 42.9
.338-378 Wby. Mag. (225 at 3180) 9.75 64.3
.44 Mag. (rifle, 240 at 1760) 7.5 12.1
.444 Marlin (240 at 2350) 7.5 26.5
.450 Marlin (350 at 2000) 7 41.8
.45-70 (350 at 2100) 10 32.1
.458 Win. Mag. (400 at 2380) 9.25 57.9
.50 BMG (647 at 2950) 30 82.9
.600 NE (900 at 1950) 12 145
Now that^^^^^ is some information :readthis:
Nice chart, Jerry!
And, whew!!, I was just getting ready to drop the hammer on a .600 Nitro Express. Me thinks me is gonna re-think that decision. :eyebrownod:
Does the chart mean that because the 45-70 is 3lbs heavier it cuts recoil by 25% or does the .450 create more pressure to do the same job? :confused:
Just keep in mind that weight is just one aspect of felt recoil. Design, ergo, cast, etc. of a stock (and how it fits each individual) plays a tremendous role in the amount of felt recoil.
.223 Rem. (55 at 3200) 7 4.1
.223 Rem. (55 at 3200) 8 3.6
.223 Rem. (55 at 3200) 8.5 3.3
Here is the same weight bullet, at the same velocity, but with different weights for the firearm. So, yes the simple answer is the more the firearm weights the less recoil will be felt. Put that .223 round in a 50 pound bench gun and the amount of recoil will be practically nothing.
As Fos stated, there is more to felt recoil than just the amount of force that comes from the firing of a bullet. http://kwk.us/recoil.html This is a pretty good place to learn a little more about recoil. Felt recoil varies with each person - their body mass, bone structure, and ability to "accept" recoil is another. For example, if a firearm is fired by a youth of 75 pounds the recoil will (seem to be more) than if the firearm is fired by a 200 pound adult. The actual recoil from the firearm is the same in both cases, but the additional body mass will help. There are so many other variables that can affect the felt recoil. I am sure that porting and a quality recoil pad will help. Another big factor is if you are sitting at a bench firing away or if you are taking a shot at a trophy animal. Recoil would be the same but as soon as that trophy is in your sights you seldom feel any recoil.
Fos mentioned fit and that is very important. When I was about 17 I was used to shooting a 12 gauge and when a 16 gauge Ithaca Featherweight came into the hardware store where I worked came in on trade I wanted to try it before buying it. I took a box of shells, some clay birds, another kid to throw the birds, and headed out. That gun did NOT fit me at all and after about 15 shells I quit shooting. The results of those 15 shells was bruising that went down my arm to almost my elbow and across my chest to the center. For others that gun fits them and they have no problem, but I don't want to shoot one again.
Jerry
I have the same problem. A local gun shop has a 10ga single shot for 100 bux. interchangable chokes as well. its really bugging me. but christmas shoping is getting in the way at this point.
I read somewhere that the guide guns were not intended as a primary hunting weapon, but as a "guide gun", an emergency backup to a primary weapon. What does this mean? What response would any of you Guide gun owners offer up?
Weapon of last defense. Where breaking your shoulder so that you can stop a charging ______ is your last option. My uncles best friend let me shoot one of his nitro express guns when I was a teen. It was "fun" but not something I am gona do again unless I got to stop a huge chunck of meat that wants to stop me from living.
What's really fun is doubling on those big bore double rifles. :innocentwhistle:
Mallardsr,
I do not as of yet own one, my son purchased one recently and he uses it as protection when fishing and camping on remote rivers. He uses Buffalo Bore' 430gr. Hard Cast Penetrator ammunition, 4690 foot pounds @ the muzzle, 3926 @ 50 yards. It is designed I quote "for game where 5 to 6 feet of straight line non-expanded penetration is needed, loosely translated, your about to become a bear turd.
The Marlin can be used as a hunting rifle however, three friends also have them and use them to hunt moose using lesser loads. Remember you can also shoot standard 45-70 Gov,== Remington 300gr JHP, 1492 foot pounds @ 100 yds, the ballistics to not come close to Buffalo Bore ammo. Johnny (Semp) got to use a friends while sheep hunting up here (he was on bear watch, funny how that works, the guy visiting gets handed the bear gun and is on bear watch). It is a great rifle that can be used for all types of game depending on the ammo you choose. Having just bought a T/C Triumph Bone Collector edition muzzleloader, I have to wait, but it is the very next gun on my list without a doubt.
John
The gun I am looking at buying is ported. The new ones are not. Which one is preferred? :shrug:
I would definitely go with the "ported". It will be considerably louder, but the recoil will be more reduced and manageable.
Dave
Ported firearms are louder for the shooter, but even more so for those on either side of the porting.
Jerry
Yeah, I'm not a fan of ported nor muzzle braked rifles. :puke:
No ported guns for me. Too loud and I don't think they tame muzzle jump that much anyway.
I don't know what to say. I could not resist the temptation. Not enough moral support I guess. I am now a proud owner of a 1895m marlin .450 lever action. Now to find a target rich environment. Thanks for feedback. :thumb2: :thumb2: :thumb2:
Target rich environment? You mean like a Al-Queda incampment?
Congrats! Let us know how it shoots. (Not that it goes bang, but more in depth reporting: accuracy, loads, recoil, targets, things exploding when hit, etc.)
Jerry
I am on it, but will be the weekend at best.
Ya gotcha a LBL coyote gun for sure now. :yoyo:
Quote from: Semp on December 13, 2011, 05:10:43 AM
Ya gotcha a LBL coyote gun for sure now. :yoyo:
Yessir you do Reggie!! Those damn saplings had better beware now!! :eyebrow:
:confused: Or was that somebody else that was shooting them?? :innocentwhistle:
Either way you got yourself a brushbuster for sure!! Congratulations on picking up the new rifle. :yoyo: :yoyo:
Quote from: Mallardsr on December 12, 2011, 11:07:24 AM
I don't know what to say. I could not resist the temptation. Not enough moral support I guess. I am now a proud owner of a 1895m marlin .450 lever action. Now to find a target rich environment. Thanks for feedback. :thumb2: :thumb2: :thumb2:
Darn! Late again. :doh2:
I was going to talk ya outta getting it .......
..... NAWT! :alscalls:
Looking forward to the review. :biggrin: :eyebrow: