The Custom Call Makers and Collectors Guild doesn't have a lot of predator call makers in it. I think part of the reason is that there is no way for us to compete in the call making competitions.
The reason for this, is that there isn't anyone on the board who makes predator calls or even hunts predators. They don't know where to start to support us.
So, I would like to help them out. I have taken what they have for the field call competiton for turkey calls and adapted it for predator calls. Please take a look at it and see if there is anything I left out or if there is anything that would make it better. I would like to submit this to the Guild in the next day or so. Your help and advice is important even if you are not a Guild member. This is about Predator Call Makers. All of us.
Thank you
Al
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com
I. BASIS FOR COMPETITION
The basis for this competition is to determine each call's stand-alone merit of how well it performs in the hands of a hunter. The judges of this competition will be a qualified panel of experienced hunters, one of whom must be a predator hunter, who will grade each call on the prescribed criteria.
The standard will be how simple or easy the predator call is to use and how much it sounds like an animal in distress. In determining and selecting the best hunting predator call each year, the Custom Call Makers and Collectors Guild (CCMCG) strives to ensure fairness and impartiality without prejudice towards custom predator call makers or with the design of any call entered in the hunting call competition. Criteria for determining and selecting the best call places equal emphasis on sound quality and tone, ease of use, and versatility.
II. ANNOUNCEMENTS AND RULES
The purpose of the Field Call competition is to select the most consistent, user friendly and best sounding calls. Entry into the event is open to custom, hand made calls as well as molded calls molded by the maker at home. Commercial calls or calls molded for a maker by an outside source will not be allowed.
If so desired by the entrant, the entry will be available for sale with 100% of the call makers listed
price given to the call maker. Sales of calls, collection of funds, shipping and applicable taxes will be the responsibility of the seller and buyer.
General Field Call Competition rules:
1. All call makers are required to pre-register all calls. There must be a minimum of 5 calls in a category in order for that category to be judged. If a category does not have the required minimum number of calls, the calls will be returned to the call maker along with the registration fee unless these calls are to be sold, in which case the call maker will not receive the registration fee back.
2. Entries must be original works and must have been completed during or after March of the year of the competition. Entries must be signed and dated by the call maker.
3. All call makers are limited to two entries per category.
4. If the call maker elects to sell the call during the competition they must complete a "For Sale" form listing the selling price and terms and conditions of sale.
5. Call makers are responsible for selecting the category in which they wish to enter each call. The CCMCG reserves the right to place any call in a different category than the one designated by the entrant if the CCMCG believes the call is more correctly suited to a different category/class.
6. Pre-registered calls may be sent directly to the CCMCG or delivered in person to the Show Chairman. Entries shipped to the CCMCG must be received no later than 30 days prior to the competition.
The following procedure is required when sending in your call(s) and the Registration Forms. The form has 2 copies...one copy must be placed in an envelope and taped to the outside of the box and one is for your records. It is very important that this procedure be followed. Please do not put the form inside the box, it must be placed in an envelope and taped on the outside of the box so we can get your call(s) registered without opening the box. This will help us expedite the registration and transporting of the many calls in this competition.
7. All entries shipped to the CCMCG will be opened at the convention site.
8. It is the call maker's responsibility to place an acceptable insurance value on the entry for shipping purposes, as the CMACG will not be held responsible for any loss or damage to entries that are beyond the control of the contest.
9. All entries will be required to remain at the competition area until 4PM to day of the competition.
10. ENTRY FEES
A. The entry fee is $25.00 per call and is non-refundable if an entrant decides to withdraw a pre-registered entry prior to competition. (unless there are not the minimum number of calls to be judged See #1 above)
11. All calls entered must comply with all state laws, rules and regulations of the state which the competition is held.
12. Call makers wishing to place business cards near their entries may do so following the judging and placement of awards. Winners will be posted at the Decorative Call Competition area immediately following judging.
13. It is the responsibility of the call maker to transfer, package and ship both sold and unsold calls following the competition at their expense.
14. The Guild will not be held responsible for any loss or damage to entries that are beyond the control of the competition and will be held harmless for any consequential or inconsequential damages.
III. DISTINCTION OF CATEGORIES - FIELD CALLS
Entries are limited to (2) two calls per category and should be the original work of the entrant and completed during or after March of the year of the competition.
Definitions of Categories:
Category 1 – Closed Reed Hand Turned or Molded: any material, wood, horn, acrylic or plastic or antler in any combination
Category 2 – Open Reed Hand Turned or Molded any material, wood, horn, acrylic or plastic or antler in any combination. Tone boards maybe hand made or commercialy molded.
Category 3 – Open Reed Antler or Horn - any type of natural antler or horn where the tone board is made from the antler or horn material and the calls is a one piece design that retains the natural shape and texture of the horn or antler. Turned antler and horn calls will be judged in category 2.
Category 4 –Coyote Howler : Cow, buffalo or other exotic horn, molded plastic or wood with hand made or molded toneboard
IV. JUDGING
Categories 1-3
Only the following characteristics of each call will be scored.
a. Ability to produce distress like sounds.
b. Ease of use to produce distress like sounds. (i.e. how simple or user friendly is the call to use).
c. Tone, pitch, and sound quality.
d. Projection quality....that is to say how loud and clear the produced sound really is.
e. Craftsmanship (Fit and Finish).
Scored 1-3 with 3 being the highest score.
Category 4
Only the following characteristics of each call will be scored.
a. Ability to produce the coyote howel
b. Ease of use to produce howels
c Tone, pitch, and sound quality.
d. Projection quality....that is to say how loud and clear the produced sound really is.
e. Craftsmanship (Fit and Finish).
Scored 1-3 with 3 being the highest score.
Judging Process
A panel of five (5) judges, one of which must be a predator hunter, will individually rate each entry.
Each judge will be required to sign an ethics statement and will be provided with a copy of the rules for judging.
All scores will be counted.
The winner in each category will then be determined by the highest score.
All judges are required to be available at the working call display area in the exhibit hall for 2-3 hours on the first day of the competition.
In the event of a tie score, tie breaking will be based upon the call with the highest score in Tone, Pitch and Sound Quality, followed by the highest score in Projection quality if needed.
The judges will then independently score the four Best calls in each category and the call with the highest score shall be declared the Best of Show in Working Predator Calls and have earned the title "CCMCG National Predator Call Maker of the Year" for Hunting predator Calls.
Once judging is completed, all awards will be placed.
Winners will be announced by noon the last day of the competition in the competition hall.
Give me your thoughts on this. I have made it simple to start with so that we might get more participation and allow everyone, no matter their skill lever to particpate. Hopefully by starting small and simple, we can grow this section of the Guild.
I will be working on the Decorative Predator Call Rules later this week
Thank you for you help.
Al
Huge turn-around in just 24 hours from what you posted on the other thread Al. Looks like now you are back on the Guild band wagon again. I didn't read through your guidelines though.
Personally I would never support the Guild. I am out of the business and probably will not come back to it. But if you want me to read through your post and add my input on it I will if you think it will help you and the other predator call builders.
L.
The problem is in the original set of rules posted for field and decorative calls by the Guild.
Predator calls were not included at all in one case, and only as miscelaneous calls in the other.
They have stated that they had no one to write rules for competetion for predator calls which was why they didn't. Now they do. If they do not incoorporate these into the competions then everything that they have said will be shown to be BS. The ball back in the Guilds court. They must act on this one way or another. They have no excuses now.
But we need to give them the bennefit of doubt first and see where they go with it.
I may have been wrong and they may just not have had the experiance to include anything about Predator or waterfowl calls.
Or I may have been right, they are just a good old boys club for turkey call makers.
We'll see. I hope I was wrong, but again, we'll see.
Al
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com
I think the rules read fine Al. Looked ok to me.
Brent
Look pretty good to me. I will need to review the Guilds other catagories and rules then give you a more detailed analysis. But, from a brief overview perspective it looks good.
David
I like the layout you've made for the predator call category.
I'll comb through it in more detail when I have more time, but I can't see anything I'd change.
Brad
Thanks guys -
Dave, all I did was copy the Turkey calls guys rules and change the catagories. Otherwise, it reeds pretty much the same.
Right now, the catagories are pretty braod. but I was hoping that this would give us more exposure and get more people involved. If we get enough predator call makers to participate, then we can tweek the catagories and maybe make more of them.
Again, no one was doing this in the Guild, so, if we want a competition, we needed to do it ourselves.
I sent this draft to the Chairman and told him that we were going to review it together here and send him what we came up with.
Thank you again for your help and participation
Al
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com
Al,
Do they have a call "Size" limit? I've seen rules in other competitions where a call had to be no bigger than "such and such length" etc.. Some howlers can get pretty long. Everything you have posted looks pretty good!
Dave
Dave, no size limit. Did not see anything like that in the rules for turkey either so....just never thought of it.
But - I did forget one thing
I should have put in a Craved section and I will make that change. Even if there were not enough calls in a carved contest, the Guild still has the authority to put a call in another class. And ya never know what if going to happen down the road. Heck, I'll just break out the old pocket knife and see what I can come up with LOL.
Al
If you are breaking out the knife Al, I might as well just "toss in the towel" right now. I've seen your work! :bowingsmilie:
Dave
It looks like a winner to me, but then again I've never entered anything into a competition. I do believe you forgot one thing though...calls will be judged in two separate categories...those with the call makers name beginning with "A thru L" and those with the first name of the callmaker beginning with "M thru Z" :biggrin:
Thanks for making a last ditch effort Al - I really hope this pans out for predator guys. Keep us posted :wink: I might just have to dream up something good to enter into competition :eyebrow:
Steve
Hey Coulter,
You need to be careful with that category set up. THO might post under his first and then last name and cover both ends of the contest. :roflmao:
Jerry
First of all, you guys sell yourselves short.
Arky had that little horn call with the brass band, and then Jerry and his laminates, Steve your little antller calls - and there are a lot of guys who we never see who might jump in. There are a lot of good call makers out there.
As for carving, Dave, one of your carved howlers would be HARD to beat. Brad and KeeKee might give you run for your money though.
But also remember this is just for field calls. It's about how they sound and play. Everyone has a shot.
The decorative calls should be the fun one. I bet a lot of people will rib each other about what they are working on and keep things secret until the last minute. I would bet there would be some prerrty fanstastic calls in that one.
These are some photos of this years NWTF contest for the duck call guys - take a look. The fiedl calls are not that fancy, and even the fancy calls, except for the carved ones, are nothing that anyone here could not do either.
http://www.ccaacalls.org/nwtf2007.html
Al
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com
It all looks good to me.
since I put a check in the mail to the guild today I guess I'll soon be a member, so IF you can get it to fly, I'll put a varmint call in the mix with ya.
Clint
Welcome to the Guild Clint.
Al, have you submitted this to the BOD yet? You've got me sitting on pins and needles wondering what the response will be.
Steve
I sent it to Preston who said he was going to send it to the committee that takes care of it. No changes in the Guild Area of the rules yet.
Am I beating a dead horse here or is there hope?
I did get my new Hat. Pin and Knife from the Guild today. I just love the big picture of the turkey on them :roflmao:
Al
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com
surprised they didn't give you a turkey call. :confused:
Better Not make to much trouble for them or they might ask for it all back! :nofgr:
I think Preston said he was going out town tomorrow. He may wait until he gets back to have a meeting with the BOD. Something like this would have to be voted on by a majority of the board. I'm not sure when the next teleconference is. I'll see if I can get anything out of Preston, it may take a day or two though. I think there is still hope...He also mentioned another little tidbit to me, but I'm not sure if he pursued it yet.
I haven't been home to see if I have anything in the mail yet. I know Preston mailed something to Todd and me though.
I'll lte ya know if I find anything new out.
Steve
Steve, I do not see how this would require a vot of the BOD?
Please explain?
AL
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com
I could be wrong on that Al...I guess I should have said it might have to have the boards approval. I don't know, maybe it doesn't :confused: Either way, I'll try to find out some new info.
Just got home...I got my hat and stuff also. To be fair, the hat has some duck calls and duck feathers on it as well. :eyebrownod: Just the Guild logo...I tried to get that changed a while back, but I was the only one that said anything at the time. Why is it that they put up with me anyway :wo:
Steve
Okay I have some info for ya. The guild is in fact working on incorporating Al's proposal into the rules. This should create a separate section for predator calls. Preston told me Craig Koefler is working on this, but it will take some time. I was incorrect about this being voted on by the BOD, input is being solicited from the membership. I also noticed that waterfowl was lumped into the miscellaneous category. I asked Preston about this and he informed that Mark Warmath is working to incorporate this as its own category as well.
This may be just me thinking optimisticly, but it looks like they Guild is trying to satisfy the vast majority here. It will take some time to accomplish, and keep in mind I was told there won't be any competition until 2008 at the earliest, possibly even 2009. I think they need to take the time and do things right the first time. So, with that being said I am going to get back to turning some calls now...right after work.
Steve
QuoteI was incorrect about this being voted on by the BOD, input is being solicited from the membership.
Again, how, where, and most importantly - What for?
I honestly wonder if the BOD and Chairman actually think before they say stuff like this.
If the Guild wants to represent all call makers, but leaves it up to the membership if they will represent all call makers, then the Guild is nothing more than a good old boys club.
If the Guild is soliciting input from the membership, where is that input is being solicited at? Or again, is it just being solicited from the "club"
If the Guild wants to solicit input on the rules I submitted, then they need to post them so that they can get some input.
I understand this will take time, and myabe they wont do anything for another year or two, but they need to make their intentions known so that they don't end up having a bunch of guys join the guild, paying 35 bucks a year for a couple of years just to find out they are red headed step children.
I still want to see a set of by laws for the Guild. That should pretty much clear things up. They must have one?
Steve, a lot of us have gone out on a line for the Guild, without a lot of resources to back us up. If the Guild wants the continued support of call makers from other areas, it best start treating them like valued members, and not as just a way to help them raise money for a pig picking.
Am I the only one who finds it interesting that off all the people who joined the Guild, the only ones who did not get their Hat, Pin and Knife were call makers that had nothing to do with Turkey Calls?
Al
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com
Quote from: THO Game Calls on March 29, 2007, 06:53:00 AM
Am I the only one who finds it interesting that off all the people who joined the Guild, the only ones who did not get their Hat, Pin and Knife were call makers that had nothing to do with Turkey Calls?
Al
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com
Does this mean I ain't getting a hat?????? :holdon:
You are welcome to mine. Brand new. Never worn. Free shipping LOL Matching Pin and Pocket knife included.
The minute I wear it, and another hunter sees it, the first question he will ask me is "Do you make Turkey Calls?" :roflmao:
I suppose the Guild is haveing an identity crisis - which is causing those of us who have been told that the guild will represent us as call makers from other disciplines to wonder How?
I want this to work. But it has to be a group effort. Each of us has to embrace the other. It should not matter what types of calls you make if the Guild claims to represent all call makers. We must keep this on the front buirner until someone steps uip and says all are welcome or get out. But talk is cheap. There needs to be a set of by laws drawn up that set the standards and the tone of the organization. I am not even sure they can collect money and solicit members without them.
There are some very fine predator call makers, and duck call makers out there. It would be a shame to separate them. They deserve the same voice and the recognition for thier work as the turkey call makers. If the Guild says they will do that, and collects membership fee's based on it, then it has to follow through. Anything else would be unethical and possably illegal.
AL
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com
You are right Al.
When it all boils down to it, we will see where they stand. In the mean time I went ahead and joined. If we can make it work I think it will be a beautiful thing. If not well then I'll just look at it like I blew $35.00 bucks on Pizza.
Now if you really want to have some fun, I could do a tutorial on trumpets and post it over there. I wonder how long it would stay up before it vanished?
Anyway, I'm leaving for a few days to go kill some birds and call some Yotes. I'll see ya'll when I get Back.
Clint.
Good luck on your hunt!
I too hope it works. We need this I think. It might be an uphill battle but we have to make our voices heard. Once they hear them, it will be up to the Guild what to do. I think a lot of guys are taking a wait and see attitude right now. That's fine, but the more we get harping on them the better. I don't blame them for sitting it out however.
Al
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com
Okay Al heer we go - here is how, where and what for...this can be found in the Guild membership area on CCO. It is in the Guild area because you should be a member if you want to have input on how the Guild is run. I omitted the e-mail address that is mentioned. If anybody wants to have input I guess for know it will have to go througha Guild member. The post Al created has not had many suggested alterations as of yet. Once the drafts are updated, I would guess that another link will be posted critique them and offer input. Here it is...
In this topic you will find, in the near future, links to "draft" copies of the CCMCG rules for call makers who wish to place calls into competition we plan to sponsor.
The committee's have worked to create sets of rules for both divisions (Decorative and Field) which are simple, cover a reasonable scope of decorative call categories, are fair and provide both the experianced as well as the novice callmaker opportunity for their work to be judged. This will be accomplished using two classes of entry, Open and Rookie.
Something we feel will be unique to this competition is the ability of the callmaker to receive 100% of the selling price of the call, which the entrant will determine, if they desire to sell their work.
As stated in the opening, these are "drafts" and as such we are encouraging member input before finalizing their being. Please bear with us as we go through this process. We hope to establish a "respond to" email address shortly. This will allow us to collect in one place all input so it may be reviewed by the two committees. So, please hold you thoughts and comments for direct response until this is established. When responding please be specific with regard to division and which section within the division your input is being made.
In the Field Call Rules in the section called "Judging Process" we have inserted a * BOLDED statement, which is not part of the rules. It has been inserted to draw your attention and input to these points.
Acknowledgement and advancement of the skill and craft in callmaking is a fundemental to our purpose. Thank you for your input in forwarding this effort.
CCMCG Members,
Please find below links to the DRAFT set of rules for the CCMCG Field and Decorative Call Contests.
http://www.customcalls.com/CCCG/Field_Draft.doc
http://www.customcalls.com/CCCG/Decor_Draft.doc
To ensure all comments pertaining to the Draft rules are collected in one location, the following email address has been established. We request that you only use this email for this purpose.
To reply to some of your other comments...
"If the Guild wants to represent all call makers, but leaves it up to the membership if they will represent all call makers, then the Guild is nothing more than a good old boys club."
The membership should be what drives any organization, if it is largely comprized of turkey guys, then it will deal mostly with "turkey stuff". That is why I am involved with the Guild. I want it to be diverse and encompass all call making. I am making a sincere effort here with nothing to gain from this except what the Guild may or may not provide. You raise some good points Al, but couldn't ya try to be a bit more positive about this whole thing? You want all these questions answered...why not post them in the Guild section where the BOD will see them and let them answer them. I am not on the Board, I am simply relaying info that I am able to obtain for you guys. I am only on the communications committee.
By the way, the comment about only turkey guys getting the hats and stuff is a bit off base. I never received my stuff either, and at the risk of being shunned here, I make turkey calls also. When I sent in my application it was known that I make turkey, waterfowl, predator and "other" calls. I checked each one in the application box.
Also, harping on the Guild does absolutely no good over here. I think what is happening over here is more conducive to bashing. Other than Al, Todd, Clint, maybe Brent and myself who else here belongs to the Guild? Again, this stuff needs to be posted somewhere the Board can see it and address these issues. Somebody can always copy the questions and responses from the Guild section and paste them into a post over here.
Steve