Spoke with a farmer lady a few days ago. She told me 4-5? yrs ago. Her & her husband seen a lion with two small ones in tow. That were traveling along a creek. This occurred in the general area I've been looking for one.
The so called experts say there are no breeding lions in Iowa. They must be onto something? :laf:
Shoot it and ask them what it is :laf:
I don't put to much stock in other people's sightings. More often than not they don't have any idea of what they saw, they want to see a lion so they do.
Quote from: JohnP on June 16, 2014, 11:17:58 AM
I don't put to much stock in other people's sightings. More often than not they don't have any idea of what they saw, they want to see a lion so they do.
Same with me, John. However I question sighting witnesses thoroughly. Separating the wheat from the chaff. Most of the people I've questioned. Their sightings were out in the open & not far away. Hard to call a lion a deer or dog in those situations.
Quote from: JohnP on June 16, 2014, 11:17:58 AM
I don't put to much stock in other people's sightings. More often than not they don't have any idea of what they saw, they want to see a lion so they do.
John, you have a direct way with words! My sentiments exactly, but I tend to smile and nod. :innocentwhistle: There is a very small circle of people I have confidence in re lion info.
IME Reports to do with lions make up the least accurate category of any animal in North America. The
want-it-to-be-a-lion factor is so huge that it distorts visuals, memories and logic. On PMS there used to be a constant string of posts showing dog tracks that the poster desperately wanted others to verify as lion tracks. That trend is probably still going on.
OTOH my friend, Rainshadow, has a network of people who report lion sightings to him, and a lady who saw one while walking by her house one day put him on a lion that he called and killed within an hour.
Lions are so scarce where SNAFU is hunting that it might be worth sifting through the false alarms to have a network of more eyes looking.
SNAFU, FWIW I would only be interested in fresh recent sightings for hunting.
An hour old is best. A day or two old may be useful for hunting if the cat is on a kill. Lions (without little cubs) normally travel so much that sightings/sign more than a few days old only have value as "once upon a time."
The only exception would be repeated sightings in the same place, in which case it is probably a travel route that a lion may travel through once in awhile, from a few days to :shrug:. Such a pattern isn't much good for immediate hunting but knowing that a lion passes by there occasionally gives you more info than a random guess at where a cat might be.
Also, if a lion passes by that spot more than once there is a good chance that other lions will travel the same route if one is in the area a year or more later. It is not a tight enough pattern to wait for on a stand etc. but it is worth checking that spot regularly for tracks in case you hit a hot one. Anything that narrows the search pattern is a help.
FWIW anyplace that I have seen a lion track I tend to check again next time I am in the area. I've located several places scattered over a few hundred miles where lions cross a road or follow a path in a corridor less than 30 feet wide, and different lions do so year after year.
Likewise if you ever find a lion scrape, check it every time you are in the area to see if more scrapes are added. These can be up to 100 yards apart but are likely within 10-30 feet of each other. Like travel patterns, one cat or another may visit a scrape site anywhere from a few days apart to a month or more. We have called and killed one lion over a years-old repeated scrape site.
Quote from: Okanagan on June 16, 2014, 09:37:26 PM
SNAFU, FWIW I would only be interested in fresh recent sightings for hunting.
An hour old is best. A day or two old may be useful for hunting if the cat is on a kill. Lions (without little cubs) normally travel so much that sightings/sign more than a few days old only have value as "once upon a time."
The only exception would be repeated sightings in the same place, in which case it is probably a travel route that a lion may travel through once in awhile, from a few days to :shrug:. Such a pattern isn't much good for immediate hunting but knowing that a lion passes by there occasionally gives you more info than a random guess at where a cat might be.
Also, if a lion passes by that spot more than once there is a good chance that other lions will travel the same route if one is in the area a year or more later. It is not a tight enough pattern to wait for on a stand etc. but it is worth checking that spot regularly for tracks in case you hit a hot one. Anything that narrows the search pattern is a help.
FWIW anyplace that I have seen a lion track I tend to check again next time I am in the area. I've located several places scattered over a few hundred miles where lions cross a road or follow a path in a corridor less than 30 feet wide, and different lions do so year after year.
Likewise if you ever find a lion scrape, check it every time you are in the area to see if more scrapes are added. These can be up to 100 yards apart but are likely within 10-30 feet of each other. Like travel patterns, one cat or another may visit a scrape site anywhere from a few days apart to a month or more. We have called and killed one lion over a years-old repeated scrape site.
Yes I'm aware of people & reported sightings. The lady I spoke with a few days ago. Is not the 1st I've heard of two more lions together. I think its been 4 Winters ago now. I shot a long range coyote. He ended rolling to a stop down the side of a long foothill valley side. I laid my 11+ lb rifle down & started the walk to my kill. I was walking on old firm snow that had a new coupe of inches of new powder snow.
I started to note what looked like single brush marks across the top of the low drifts. I thought what the hell made that mark? I kept on walking. Around 15-25' intervals I would note a single brush stroke on the top of the drifts. Finally I couldn't take it anymore & knelt down to see up close. This foothill valley was laced with coyote tracks. In among those tracks. I picked out 2 sets of lion tracks. The single brush marks a top of the shallow drifts. Was from one lion's tail (curl)hitting the drifts.
Since then I have spoken with another farmer. Who's brother kicked out a pr of lions. While he was harvesting corn along a creek. 1 mile from where I found the pr of tracks previously.
I've read about lions over the last 7-8yr. Most of what has been wrote about them on the net, journals, studies, ect...ect.. I looked for an edge on them. Now the filler is, the sightings.
A couple of yrs ago. I was put in contact with an acreage owner. Who spouted he had a lion with 2 cubs on his trail cam. He was evasive in my lengthy questioning. I smelled a rat early on. End result, I pegged him as a damn liar & he knew that I knew it.
I'm determined to succeed in my hunt. No matter how many yrs it may take. As I weed out the wheat from the chaff along the trail.
We have one saddle on our mountain that "appears" to be a regular travel route, although I have never seen or called a lion off it, but have found tracks of varies sizes. Think it might be a "gateway" to new territory for young ones trying to find their place in the world. The wife followed a set of tracks for several miles, many years ago, that led through the saddle and down the mountain into the flats. Then into a dry wash that wandered it's way to another mountain range.
If'n I could get around like I use to I would have some of Rain Shadows sounds on the Fox Pro.
There have been reports of "black panthers" in KY for years. I put them just behind the snipe hunters.
Quote from: JohnP on June 17, 2014, 12:21:35 AM
We have one saddle on our mountain that "appears" to be a regular travel route, although I have never seen or called a lion off it, but have found tracks of varies sizes. Think it might be a "gateway" to new territory for young ones trying to find their place in the world. The wife followed a set of tracks for several miles, many years ago, that led through the saddle and down the mountain into the flats. Then into a dry wash that wandered it's way to another mountain range.
If'n I could get around like I use to I would have some of Rain Shadows sounds on the Fox Pro.
I'm impressed with your wife's tracking ability!
Saddles are a good place to look for a travel route and scrape concentrations, sort of a terrain funnel. The scrape area where we called one was mostly luck: happening to call when one was in the area. We found the scrapes after we killed it. We called there because it is a saddle in a deer wintering area. Lions keep making scrapes there a week to a month or more apart, scattered along 100 yards of trail through the saddle. We have called a few times in that location over several years since and had one probable come in that we never saw.
Before I retired. At work I'd wake up early & go out & have a smoke in the dark hrs. There was a local tomcat that would make the same rounds(almost the same exact path). Most every morning before Sun up. I got to thinking, wonder if a lion does the same. A cat is a cat, isn't it.
A few of the people who have had two sightings. Told me their sightings occurred roughly 2-wks apart. Later, on I happened to get a hold of a lion hunter in the SouWest U.S. After visiting a long while with him & asking many questions. He too, also said a male territorial lion will make his rounds. Roughly every two wks or so.
After questioning him. I got to thinking I may be onto something here. But that info just didn't pan out. I figure the lions in my area. Must not of read the play book.
I do not doubt a local male will not make his rounds. What I do know that holds true in my hunt area. Is they do not take the same route. But take a random route.
I probably scoured 3000+ miles of gravel roads last Winter. Looking for cross-over tracks. Some of those hunts. There could've been a track? But I couldn't pick one out in amongst all of the deer tracks.
I do believe there is one territorial male & atleast one female. That are in the 3 county area I hunt. One major hurdle in hunting over snow. In order to find sign. Is the drifting, melting & all of the deer tracks.
Wow! 3000 miles looking for tracks. Wish I could do that! Our local problem is too much snow or too little, with a good tracking snow of the right amount quite rare. Four feet deep or raining is the norm!
Patterns of animals are probables at best, with lions having a very loose pattern compared to whitetails. Lions have big territories, each one a different size and terrain so that how often they make a circuit will be different for each one, if they even make a circuit. With so few lions in your area, they may not establish territories because they can roam without running into another lion's area.
As an exception to circuits, the biggest lion track I've seen in my life passed one time through an area we hunt and we have never seen his track since though we have looked hard for several years. He killed a large buck, stayed for four days while eating it, ripped up a hard stump nearby with his claws and four other lions came into the mile wide basin during those four days. I assume he attracted them somehow, likely by vocal calling. Only one came right to where he was, a female I'd assume. Lotsa assumptions and unanswered questions when it comes to lions, and the biologists don't have a clue about some of the things they do.
You are learning a lot about lions in your area. Keep after them. Animals from one area to another may act differently so you can't count on the same behaviour but it is worth checking. I.e. In Idaho we've been consistently able to find a bull elk before season and kill it on opening morning. In Central Washington State the only sure thing we decided was that if we saw a bull in the evening, he would be miles away by morning, every time. Totally different "pattern."
Okanagan, I don't think most people, even long time hunters. Can grasp the time involved. 3000 miles is probably low in my estimate. Flipside to all of the hrs spent. Is a person may hunt for a lion. Here in Iowa & "luck" out the 1st time out. IMO that would suck. I'm old school & believe in earning something worth my while. When it comes to hunting predators. Put in your own time & earn it.
I've taken all info heard, read & learned on my own so far. Mesh it all into one group. Then sort through it & average it all out. To grasp a lions so-called pattern. I use the word pattern loosely. Because it is/may be so rare & or random. When one travels through an area.
However I do remember where all of the sightings occurred. That I've heard of. One small piece of the larger picture. I continually randomly check those areas.
My hunt area consists of roughly 75-80% open rolling crop land. The rest is hilly timber & the flat timbered Iowa River basin & its feeder creeks.
Went out looking for sign yesterday. I stopped in a small town near the river & went in. Talked to the store owner & an elderly man. They told me of an elderly acreage owner that lived nearby. That claimed he had a lion living on his property.
I went to meet him. We got to talking outside & he told me he has seen a lion 16-17? times on his land over the yrs. He owns 10 acres adjacent to the river bottom. His claims seemed mighty high to me. Seeing that most people who do have a sighting around here. Only have 1-sighting in their life time. He seemed legit, but I'm doubtful of his claims. I did find a large track along the river near his place last yr.
But I hunted that area hard all last Winter. Came up empty for sign. I looped & serpentined my way around & through. Most all of the miles sections on the river corridor last Winter. Nada
He claimed he has seen a lion 3x now since last January. He told me every wk he walks his property with his dogs. He said when he has seen the lion. Most of his sightings. The lion is laying on top of a wood pile in the timber near the river. Across a creek from his property line. I asked him about the size of this lion. He estimated 130-140lbs in comparison to his two large lab dogs.
He also went on to tell me. That lion comes around about every 3 wks. That I can believe. But in the same exact place?? Come on :huh:
Put a trail camera out, they don't lie! cc
Quote from: Carolina Coyote on July 16, 2014, 08:23:53 AM
Put a trail camera out, they don't lie! cc
I plan to today, hopefully he agrees I can.
In Jack O’Connor’s The Big Game Animals of North America, the Chapter on The Mountain Lion contains several quotable sentences:
“Even in country where the mountain lion is common, it is very rare that one is seen unless it’s put up a tree or otherwise bayed by dogs.â€
“Of all the large American mammals, the mountain lion is the shyest, most furtive, and most difficult to encounter.â€
“Catching a glimpse of him is made all the more difficult because he is almost entirely nocturnal. Generally, he does not begin to hunt until dusk, and shortly after dawn he lies up in some secluded spot.â€
Worth noting, John P. But I doubt the author was remarking about farm land Iowa. After harvest here in Iowa. Most of the land is wide open Flat & hill. Only cover are the timbered areas.
I set up my cam along his creek. Hung a vented scent bottle of lion lure paste. Right at a game trail intersect. Probably check it in a month. Unless I can't stand the wait :laf:
BTW, seen a jet black Red Fox on my way home. It was hunting a pasture on the edge of a large hilly timber tract. Couldn't get my camera on it quick enough :iroll: That was the 2nd one I've seen in my life.
Will be interesting to see what shows up on the trail cam. Another lower cost trick is to take along a rake and scruff up the dirt on trail bottlenecks etc. enough to show tracks. It is interesting to follow your quest. Wish we could trade a day of riding around in the snow looking for tracks, one here and one in your area.
As John said, sightings are rare, at least farther west. I knew a hound man in Idaho who lived in prime lion country, had treed many over a lifetime, but had never seen a cougar in the wild that his hounds had not put up. I'm getting long in the tooth, have lived my life in lion country yet have only gotten a good look at two, not counting called ones. Both of those were while I was driving through a deer wintering area, one in headlights and one in the dusk. I have several friends who live and hunt a lot on Vancouver Island, the highest lion density in the world. About half of them have seen a cougar in the wild, and a few of those men have seen several over a lifetime.
When someone asks me what they should do if they see a cougar in the wild I reply, "Be grateful." :biggrin:
Today before I walked out into the mosquito hell. To set up my trail cam. I asked him more about his sightings. I asked in front of his wife. To see her reaction. She never flinched. He told me one sighting. He & his wife seen a lion drag a deer into the wood line. As they were out walking his land apparently walking near a fresh kill. They backed out.
Furthermore their daughter lives north of them near the river bottom. A lady friend of hers this last Spring. Was out along the river timber hunting mushrooms. She came upon a loin in a tree, so she backed out. Mushroom season over. I do my best to filter out the wheat from the chaff. As the chaff won't give me any edge, what so ever.
Good sig line "Be thankful"
Just heard this today. Friends of ours who are farmers. Our lady friend's step son who is also a farmer. Recently had a calf killed & the calf's mother raked. I was told late on this. Hopefully I get on that land to call or check for sign. This occurred not far from the river bottom. I told our friend to tell him. Next time call me. I would like to inspect that kill.
A lion was seen this am around 8:30. 25 miles due South of me. I know the woman who seen it. It came up out of a roadside ditch along a creek. Just stood there on the road shoulder until she passed on by.
I drove down there this morning weaved around the mile sections. Looking for sign along the creeks. Unfortunately the creeks are a little high & very little creek banks/sand bars are exposed.
aaaaand did you see any sign?
No I didn't Jim. Very few places right now to find any sign. However I did look hard. I will post when I do.
About a wk ago I stopped in at the local tire/repair shop to get a tire patched. Discussion turned to hunting, then lions. Shop owner told me you need to get a hold of A local man. Who had a lion cross the highway in front of him around 2 months ago.
I called their house, he was gone for a few days. But the man's wife was home. She told me his story. Later in the day after he headed home. He went back to where the lion crossed. Et found a few tracks & took some pics of the tracks.
His wife also told me about a wk before her husband's sighting. Some people they know who live on a nearby acreage. One night they let their dog out. Dog never came back to the door. So the man of the house took his flashlight out & walked around their house. His light cast onto some eyes. He scanned with his light & lit up a lion with 2 cubs in tow.
I haven't spoken with that acreage owner yet. But plan to. As for the 1st guy. He told me he has better pics of the tracks at his office. He will bring those home for me to look at & copy if I want.
I don't know about the 2nd guy. But the old guy who has some track pics. Told me that guy was credible. The wait for post harvest. Is a bear.
Your like a bounty hunter, going around on the prowl collecting evidence :eyebrow:
A frustrating hunt that is for sure. As of this yr there has been a handful of sightings. Yet I drove a good 4000+ miles last Winter & never found any sign. I suppose if I were after crows. A pride of Lions would then flock around my truck. Shoot me, shoot me :doh2:
I spoke with a woman two days ago. Her & her friend seen a lion feeding on a road kill very early in the am. 30+ miles South/SouWest of me. I drove down there later that morning in the pouring rain. Never did find the road kill. Lion must've drug it down in the tall weeds? She said it appeared to be 2/3 the size of an adult lion. From pictures she had found on the net.
Summer sucks, waiting on Winter snow
Not familiar with your area but most lions stay away from roadkills. Unless times are bad they only eat what they kill, at least that has been my experience.
I got a hold of the other woman in the car. She thought that the lion was looking? for road kill. As it was on the highway shoulder. Then darted across the highway in front of them. As for one eating road kill? I would say it would have to be pretty fresh. From what I have read on lions. Is they will eat on their own kills from 3-5 days. Or until the meat gets tainted.
Finally I'm suppose to get the pics of the lion tracks. A local guy took some time back. His sighting occurred just West of the town we both live in. I've been pestering them to see the dang pics. Nothing but one excuse after another. I know the guy is busy, but WTH! We'll see if I finally get them.
Even with the dang crops standing tall. I'm still out & about looking for sign. Along the creek & river bridge underpasses. Everyday I think about my lion, the day we meet up. This hunt consumes me, like no other.
Ya think he might be yapping about some pics he cant produce? :confused:
He sent me a "cluster" of 4 pics in a file. The file is a pdf file. I played heck just getting it transferred to our pictures. The pics are not very sharp. So I planned on up loading them to photobucket to see if I can sharpen them up. When I'm logged onto PB. I can NOT see the pics on our PC's picture page.
I could use some help here. How do I get the pics out of his pdf file. So I can clean them up?
Open em with Photoshop.
Photoshop can read them if they are image files and then you can save them as regular jpegs or whatever.
I couldn't get the pics out of the pdf folder. So I took a pic of the pic :iroll: From the best one of the group of 4. He should avoid being hired to take crime scene pics.
Hard to say what it is. Maybe, just maybe....The ever so rare, Cape Water Buffalo?
(http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/incipiant/P1190291_zpsed4862bf.jpg)
It looks more like a canine of some sort than a cat. But ive never seen a mountain lion track.
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I see a piece of corn :biggrin:
Yes corn. We can all agree on that :laf: