For those areas some of you guys hunt in the Eastern States , I'm betting a decoy dog will work for you where you have a lot of timber and they don't want to show thereselves in open areas. I hunt some river bottoms with timber right along side open fields. Sometimes they are reluctant to show theirselves and with the dog they come right out. Something to think about. :wink:
I agree Jerry. I have worked some with a little JR I have here and he did ok. They are just to aggressive for decoy dogs.
I been looking at some Cur dogs for the last couple months and even talked some to Cal Taylor on this topic.
I will be picking up a Cur puppy as soon as I can find one that I think will work for me.
My only concern is putting enough coyotes in front of the dog to get it trained right, I may haft to make a trip out west to get the dog allot of coyotes to work with. Then maybe not? It will also be hard to train in the thick woods here because I wont be able to see the dog all the time.
But I do have some open country up north I work the dog in that would be perfect!
Brent
I have a boykin spaniel that I've trained to hunt with both dove and quail. He is very smart and loves to go with me anywhere. I was wondering how he may do as a decoy dog for coyotes? I have a collar that I use on him when he needs it and thought i might use it while decoying to make him return to me before he gets tangled up with a coyote. I think the coyote would whip his tail and his Momma ( my wife) would whip mine if he got hurt! What do you think, should I try it or not?
Bob
Quote from: keekee on August 23, 2006, 11:36:42 AM
I agree Jerry. I have worked some with a little JR I have here and he did ok. They are just to aggressive for decoy dogs.
I been looking at some Cur dogs for the last couple months and even talked some to Cal Taylor on this topic.
I will be picking up a Cur puppy as soon as I can find one that I think will work for me.
My only concern is putting enough coyotes in front of the dog to get it trained right, I may haft to make a trip out west to get the dog allot of coyotes to work with. Then maybe not? It will also be hard to train in the thick woods here because I wont be able to see the dog all the time.
But I do have some open country up north I work the dog in that would be perfect!
Brent
You are right about putting them on enough coyotes and open country. I was thinking after I started the topic , training them in heavy cover wouldn't be the best way. If you talked to Cal, he probably told you a lot about training them. Takes a lot of time in the field and a lot of patience but it is well worth it and real enjoyable. Good luck and keep me posted on how things are going. Jerry
Quote from: Bob Dickson lll on August 23, 2006, 01:12:08 PM
I have a boykin spaniel that I've trained to hunt with both dove and quail. He is very smart and loves to go with me anywhere. I was wondering how he may do as a decoy dog for coyotes? I have a collar that I use on him when he needs it and thought i might use it while decoying to make him return to me before he gets tangled up with a coyote. I think the coyote would whip his tail and his Momma ( my wife) would whip mine if he got hurt! What do you think, should I try it or not?
Bob
I'd say give it a try. My only concern would be when he saw a coyote he would run right up there thinking it's another dog and let the coyote get ahold of him. I would watch him pretty close but if he will come back to you when you use the shock collar it might work. I wouldn't let him get out of sight though. Good Luck
Im really interested in decoy dogs I tried it once with a blue healer we managed to get one yote (heres a pic)but do to unfortunate events she was sent down the road.
I would like to start from scratch with a pup but Im wondering whats the better breed for decoyin and whats a good way to train.
What I did with my dog was first train her to stay close and to come back when I called her then I would take her out keep her on a long leash like 100 feet so that way I could control her if needed my thinkin was once she realized what was out there then I could let her go It worked once but then I had to get rid of her.
Rick :yoyo:
Sorry Jerry I clicked yor post by accident to edit mine but I didnt change yours.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/ppbtrab/decoy.jpg)
I'm gonna give it a go myself.....
Here's what I'm gonna try with... http://hawkshawcurs.tripod.com/
Just hope I don't get one killed. Kids would kill me and wife........well let's just say I'd be camping for a long time. :innocentwhistle:
A couple years ago i went with a friend behind his house. Well, his dog followed us out in the field , it was a red healer.
I started callin, the dog just ran around within 20 yards of us the whole time, about the 15 minute mark i see a coyote exiting the cover of the woods. It came up the waterway we were setup in and when it saw the dog, it froze. Layed down and watched the dogs every move. The dog never did see the coyote which was about 80 yards away from us. After about 2 or 3 minutes the coyote stood up and that's when i shot it. Scared the crap out of the healer when the gun went off too .LOL..
That has been the 1 and only dog on stand experience i've had, other than with Rich Higgins out in AZ. would definately like to get a dog to work with but right now just can't find the time to work with it..
Soooo, hurry up Brent and get that Cur dog!! :roflmao:
JD
I am looking dude! Just cant find one that fits me good yet, not many cur guys around this area. Im talking with a guy in Tenn now, may stop in and see them on my way back from SC!
Brent
Brent one of my best friends has some black mouth curs. I don't know if he has any puppies right now but I can ask for you if your interested.
If any of you have a friend or neighbor with a border collie, take him along for a couple hunts for summer cornfield coyote. Probably not the dog to buy, but it would be a good chance to see how it works.
Quote from: Greenside on August 25, 2006, 07:59:01 AM
If any of you have a friend or neighbor with a border collie, take him along for a couple hunts for summer cornfield coyote. Probably not the dog to buy, but it would be a good chance to see how it works.
Border Collies would make a good decoy dog. My friend has one that was half way good. He just didn't get used enough, but he sure would let you know if there was a coyote around. He wouldn't go out to meet the coyotes though, but with more training I think he would have made a great dog. If you have ever watched Bill Austin's tape on doggin," Radar" was a border collie in that video.
PM sent Ronnie! Thanks!
Brent
Ok, guys....I don't have any true decoy dogs... How about a cat? :shck:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/coyotehunter_1/NOFEAR.jpg)
:rolleye:
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Brent,
The "Original Mtn. Cur Breeders Assocation" that was started by my preacher's grandpa in 1957 is just about 10 miles north of me in Jamestown, Tn.
Robert Kemmer, who started the "Kemmer Curs", lives about 5 miles south of me in Grassy Cove. According to Robert's son, Roy. They send a lot of Kemmer Curs out west for hunting coyotes.
Just thought I'd give ya a little heads up about the curs located in this county and surrounding counties. Tons of cur breeders in this area. :wink:
Bop,
If ya talk to any of them and they got any pups, please let me know!
Brent
Coyotehunter, great photo. :congrats:
You don't really need any specific breed of dog. Just find one with good intelligence and the passion for the coyotes. Train it to use a camera and send it out to take some pics.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/Richinaz/Mattiemix4.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/Richinaz/Dsc00435.jpg)
Now thats pretty neat. :highclap:
Rich Higgins... No, yours are great photos! :congrats:
Smart dog you got there too! Critter cam? :biggrin:
Chet
Coyotehunter, yes, that's a critter or helmet cam on the right side of Mattie's neck. Her backpack contains the battery pack on one side and a small camcorder as a recording device in the other side. This still is from some of the video that she has shot. There is a section in our DVD that has quite a bit of footage that Mattie shot.This year I'm adding another C'cam to her pack aimed backward to pickup the coyotes trying to bite her butt. Like this.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/Richinaz/Mattiecoyote3.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/Richinaz/mattiemixup.jpg)
(http://www.hunt101.com/?p=363561&c=560&z=1"%5D%5Bimg%20width=500%20height=379%5Dhttp://www.hunt101.com/img/363561.jpg)[/url][/img](http://www.hunt101.com/img/363561.jpg) (http://www.hunt101.com/?p=363561&c=560&z=1")
This is my boy Ruger. And like was said it's hard to get coyotes in front of him here in Ohio. He's tugged on some coyote hides & likes marking their posts. :hahaha:
I haven't used the shock collar for awhile, but all I gotta do is tweet & he's back. He roams w/in 100yds which can be alot in the thick areas. Had him out scouting a new farm today.
I'm wanting to get a golden female Kemmer Stock Mtn Cur & run 'em together so they don't get ganged up on. :whew:
When the puppys come I'll let ya'll know. :wink:
So......let me be the dummy here and ask what....if any... is the difference between Mtn Cur and Black Mouth Cur?
I've got access to and been offered some good blood line Black Mouth's and have always refused them assuming this isn't what we wanted.
The guy that has them runs them strictly for coon, but I wouldn't think a fresh pup would be too difficult to turn on yotes.
There's really not a lick of difference in any of them Jim. Folks have just bred them more to their liking of what they want to hunt.
If I remember right. The Black Mouth curs were started by a guy by the name of Ladner.
The Kemmer Curs were started by a guy right here in town by the name of Robert Kemmer.
The Original Mtn. Curs were started here in town in 1957 by a man named A.D. (Dewey) Ledbetter. His grandson is my preacher.
Mr. Ladner that started the black mouth curs and Mr. Ledbetter both started up around the same time with about the same stock and knew each other fairly well. I believe Mr. Ladner was instrumental in helping the Original Mountain Cur Assoc. get it's start.
Not sure of why the split, but for whatever reason they did.
Robert Kemmer got his start out of some of Mr. Ledbetter's last few curs.
I kind of chuckle when folks say they want this one or that one........I believe they are all gamey and intelligent. You can do like you said with a new pup. Train it the way you want it.
I have three Original Mtn. Curs and all three of them go back to some of the same dogs that Mr. Kemmer and Mr. Ledbetter raised.
Hope that is clear as mud. I have a book around here somewhere. I'll try to look up some of this info. and clarify if need be.
:whew:
Yeah, you better find me the book, cuz all I got outta that was a family tree history lesson and a preacher that hunts. :huh: :roflmao:
:wink:
Ohhhh.....for the love of Pete....... dense yanks. :roflmao:
Let me try this one more time grape seed. :confused:
:wo: They all came from the same dogs originally.
I have a male pup who's daddy is a Super Grand Squirrel Champ and 2 time Ky state champ. He is also very good on coons.
My male pup has a half brother from another litter out of the same sire.
He is used to hunt bobcat and bear.
He has several half brothers and half sisters, out of the same sire, that are used for hog hunting.
I am trying my level best to introduce this pup to coyote hunting. That's why I have him.
He's just four months old right now, so I'm hoping to put a coyote on the ground for him soon.
My two cur females will be used for squirrel hunting with the kids and just being the kids buddies.
Am I any clearer? :whew:
Just go to my page......it has a bunch of links on it. www.hawkshawcurs.tripod.com/
If that doesn't work......I'm just gonna kick myself in the nads and go to bed. :holdon: :sneer:
Hold still, I'll kick em for ya :biggrin:
I've looked at your site before. I enjoyed reading some of the stuff you have on there.
It didn't tell me what if any difference there was between Mtn and Black Mouths, but that was where I headed first when I considering looking more into it.
Now.... :huh: about the grapes.....
:eyebrownod:
Back in the early 70's there was fellow in Salinas, Ca. that I hunted hogs with that used Ledbetter curs as trail hounds. He had an interesting mix. His coldnose/strike dog looked like it was mostly German shepherd , and his catch dog was mostly pitbull. Whatever works best.
this is very good stuff. i would like to get a dog like Bobmc let me know when a cougar is coming in. Jessieb got a cur last year talked how smart they are. great stuff. i had hound's for three year's. take's alot of work. Rick
Holy Smokes Rich. Poor old Mr. Ledbetter would have rolled over in his grave if he saw a dog with his name on it that looked like a German Shepherd. :eyebrownod:
Here's some sites to learn about the cur dogs.
Original Mtn Cur Breeders Assoc. = http://www.omcba.com/
Kemmer Stock Breeder Assoc. = http://centralpets.com/phpscripts/PrintFriendly.php?AnimalNumber=3432
Black Mouth Curs = http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/blackmouthcur.htm
This info. is used by most curs. http://www.blackmouthcur.com/FAQs.htm
Quote from: Bopeye on September 17, 2006, 01:13:15 AM
I am trying my level best to introduce this pup to coyote hunting. That's why I have him.
He's just four months old right now, so I'm hoping to put a coyote on the ground for him soon.
My two cur females will be used for squirrel hunting with the kids and just being the kids buddies.
This may sound hypocritical, but don't you have that backwards? :confused: Shouldn't you use the 2 females for decoying & the male for squirrels? :eyebrow:
I know I'm using a male for decoying, but that's because he's all I have. I'm just a poor yank. :shrug:
Your probably right if I was going to use him for a decoy. I wouldn't think it would matter much unless they were in estrus or something, but I don't know much about it. :shrug:
I'm thinking more along the lines of using my dog as an early warning, hunting buddy type dog.
Set with me on stand, maybe venture out ten or fifteen yards, but not much. I like using a shotgun when I hunt, so letting him get out too far would leave them out of my range of protection.
Also in this thick stuff, it's hard to see what your dog's doing and I sure don't want to get them chewed on.
My male just seems to have a little more sense than the females do and he should be in the 60 lbs range when full grown. The females will probably be in 40 lbs range.
My two females are gamey as can be......the littlest one of the bunch I do believe would try and fight a Polar Bear.
Like I said though, I'm just learning all this using dogs for decoys type stuff. Hopefully, if the dog is a few yards out from me that will keep the coyotes eyes on him so that I can bring up the big 10 to put the smack down on him. However, we all know that it rarely happens like you plan it. :innocentwhistle:
Quote from: Bopeye on September 17, 2006, 11:14:01 PM
Your probably right if I was going to use him for a decoy. I wouldn't think it would matter much unless they were in estrus or something, but I don't know much about it. :shrug:
I'm thinking more along the lines of using my dog as an early warning, hunting buddy type dog.
Set with me on stand, maybe venture out ten or fifteen yards, but not much. I like using a shotgun when I hunt, so letting him get out too far would leave them out of my range of protection.
Also in this thick stuff, it's hard to see what your dog's doing and I sure don't want to get them chewed on.
My male just seems to have a little more sense than the females do and he should be in the 60 lbs range when full grown. The females will probably be in 40 lbs range.
My two females are gamey as can be......the littlest one of the bunch I do believe would try and fight a Polar Bear.
Like I said though, I'm just learning all this using dogs for decoys type stuff. Hopefully, if the dog is a few yards out from me that will keep the coyotes eyes on him so that I can bring up the big 10 to put the smack down on him. However, we all know that it rarely happens like you plan it. :innocentwhistle:
Bopeye, your male dog will probably work fine. The main thing is not getting a dog that is to aggressive whether it be a male or female. My dog is a male and works just fine. He weighs 62lbs and is solid muscle.(http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g78/cyote_man/myphotos0099.jpg)
Cooool pic' Jerry! :congrats: :highclap:
Is that a Black Mouth Cur?
Man Bopeye, I'd have to start 2hrs early to wear Ruger down before I could get him to set w/ me. :rolleye:
However he doesn't get too far & if he does a tweet brings him back.
I'm not too bothered w/ him getting bit (it might be a good thing) as I am about him getting ganged up on. :argh: That's why I want another dog.
Jerry: are you using one or two dogs?
Quote from: vvarmitr on September 19, 2006, 08:37:15 AM
Cooool pic' Jerry! :congrats: :highclap:
Is that a Black Mouth Cur?
Man Bopeye, I'd have to start 2hrs early to wear Ruger down before I could get him to set w/ me. :rolleye:
However he doesn't get too far & if he does a tweet brings him back.
I'm not too bothered w/ him getting bit (it might be a good thing) as I am about him getting ganged up on. :argh: That's why I want another dog.
Jerry: are you using one or two dogs? Most of the time just one dog. My friend has a mountain cur and we use two dogs sometimes but they are quite competitive. Yes, my dog is a black mouth cur. I never have to worry too much about my dog getting ganged up on. He got bit early in his training and stays his distance. I think it would be nice to use two dogs though. In our case they have a tendency to range out too far, where they could get into trouble.