Back in the day....
Bow Hunting meant you took your long bow or recurve out and stalked your deer on the ground. Or maybe you sat behind a blind. Now a days, you got a compound bow with 90% let off, sights, releases, arrows made of plastic and we sit in tree stands that look like a lazy boy while we wait in complete comfort for a deer to walk by dressed in our scent loc suits and fancy camo.
Black powder season meant you got your cap and ball gun or maybe a flintlock and hoped it didn't rain. We maybe even dressed up like Daniel Boone and we had fun reliving, at least for a few days every year, out countries past. 75 yards was a pretty good shot with a round ball and our speed loaders were a couple of 35 mm film canisters (anyone remember cameras that used film?) one filled with some black powder and another with some patches and balls. Now we have inlines with scopes that will drive tacks at 200 yards or more, shooting pellets and sabots. More like a single shot 30/06 than a black powder gun. Heck, most of them don't even shoot black powder anymore.
When it comes to coyote hunting.
Ever read the stories about the guys in coveralls with an old shotgun or rifle and a few hand calls? Seems they had a good time and put up some fur.
But now, you need to drop anywhere from 500 to 900 on an e caller, another grand on a AR 15, some slick camo, a decoy, and God knows what else.
It all makes me wonder what we are doing out there.
I remember walking back to the jeep one day with a hunting buddy. We had hunted for about 10 hours made over a dozen stands and not called in a single coyote. We were beat both mentally and physically but my partner said as we got back to where we had parked, "well, at least we got to take the guns for a walk".
I wonder how many of us still get a little bit of enjoyment out of just sitting under a tree in the woods on a nice fall day? Or being the first one to see the sun come up on a crisp winter morning? Or if we're not dragging fur out, do we think the day has been a total bust?
Do you think that as "hunters" we've lost our way somewhat? That with all the high tech gear and the emphasis on the "kill" that we are missing out on one of life's little pleasures by just being out "there"?
We argue over which E caller is best, which rifle shoots the fastest, which camo hides us better than the other, if it's possible to fool the coyotes nose, should we hunt with the wind or against it and a million other things that in the end, might or might not get us some more fur at the end of the day, but is that why we really hunt?
I'm sure most of us remember our first deer, or coyote, or what ever. And we might even remember the biggest one, but do we remember EVERY one? I don't. But I do remember the day I was sitting in my tree stand and watched a bob cat try for 20 minutes to catch a couple of blue jays. The red tailed hawk that came into one of my calls and sat on a limb not 20 feet from me before it got bored and flew away. The bald eagle that came soaring down the creek bed one morning looking for whatever it could find for breakfast and a hundred other scenes that played out right in front of me on Natures stage, scenes that the vast majority of people will never see.
Maybe it's better to sometimes remember why we hunt, than argue about how to hunt or what to hunt with.
So the next time you see me getting all wrapped up in the how's and why's and what's best, remind me why I really hunt, and why I am out there. I'd appreciate it, and if you want, I can do the same for you.
Al
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com
Amen brother Al!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Amen!
Brent
Very Well Said Al!!!!
Just a few months back NewDog and I were hunting,Had a hawk swoop down and almost take my hat off with its wing.I thought it was pretty neat!!
"So the next time you see me getting all wrapped up in the how's and why's and what's best, remind me why I really hunt, and why I am out there. I'd appreciate it, and if you want, I can do the same for you."
I'll remind you and you remind me. That wasn't rambling at all. That was wisdom dripping off of your fingertips and on to the keyboard.
I always feel like I'm seeing the picture when I'm out there, it's chatting online that sometimes skews my vision.
I love everything about the outdoors............I try not to look at it, but instead let it soak into my very fiber.
Excellent reminder. :highclap:
Funny thing about your article though.............I thought only Chet and I called it "taking our guns for a walk"......... :confused:
After reading this again. Man that brings back some thoughts. Good memory's with some great people!!!!!!!!!
Back to my first deer, first trapped animal, first fish, first called predator! WOW!
I get rapped up in the every day dealings with work, 24 hrs a day damn near 7 days a week. Heck I wake up from a dead sleep sometimes and have figured out the problem with a machine ( in my sleep!), and call in to work and have the guys fix it! And same with hunting any more! With the calls, video's, web site, phone calls, emails and future planning, it all kind of runs together some! What ever happened to the good old days of being able to just shoot coyotes! Or just having a good day in the field? Or like you said just taking the guns for a walk!
Makes a man set back and think don't it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But I will tell you this! There have been many days out hunting when things get tough, I tell myself just what you just said! The little critters that I see, the friendships I have made, just the good times that have been had over the years while hunting or fishing. If I died in my sleep, I would not change a thing! I believe everything happens for a reason! I'm just thankful that I have had the good fortune to do what I have done, and see some of the things I have seen!
It could be allot worse!
Brent
I didnt look at it as ramblin at all Al.
I agree, sometimes a little wake up call is what we all need. Far too much right in front of us is taken for granted everyday. :wink:
Very well put Al. This is what I'm trying to get into Lil-mans head. Our last trip out calling we hit 4-5 stands over on the farm and nothing answered our calling efforts. Cam looks up at me and said, "at least we got to come out this morning". Then we sat there and talked for an hour or so before gathering all the stuff up to walk out. It's that I will remember. Not the bad day of calling but the great day of talking to my son, taking the time to listen to him and the joy it gives me to watch him learn. Thank you for reminding us all of what it's all about. :highclap:
I dayum sure don't hunt just for the fur or meat. If I did, I'd be constantly depressed. I do it for FUN. And all the reasons Al said. If I happen to get lucky on the way and actually kill something, well, that's just icing on the cake.
Semp
Al,
Great post. While I enjoy the kill, I thought I was one of the only ones that truly enjoyed just being out there watching the world wake up (or go to sleep). When I am by myself "out there" it sure is fun to just relax and think or in some cases, not think at all.
Jerry
I talked to Rich Higgins on the phone for a while yesterday and as we were trading stories it reminded me of when Al and I were hunting all the time. ( before my G/F had the baby)
I would come home from hunting, dead tired, legs aching, and hungry. My G/F would ask "how many coyotes did you and Al see?"
My answer was most times the same, NONE. She would ask why.
And my answer was it is pretty hard to call coyotes or anything for that matter when we are to busy laughing our asses off!
Every now and then we would keep it together and call a coyote. But you know, just being out there in nature, and doing something that you enjoy with people you enjoy is what it is all about.
Plus, if I NEEDED to kill all kinds of critters I would just vacation in Texas. :shck:
For a great many years I have followed the k.i.s.s. methods in many things. Especially my hunting. Years ago I worked part time in an archery shop and saw the constant bombardment of products aimed at the sportsmen, Even helped design and build a few myself. But they never reallly measured up for me. They took away some of what I was out there hunting for. While others were buying the latest tree stand I was trying to perfect my still hunting skills.
Today no matter what weapon I hunt deer with, I do it still hunting ,slipping through the woods to take my quary. You may see me at the hunt with a turkey vest but that is to hold a number of mouth calls for variety and the string around my neck holds the primary calls I will be using. I change coveralls because the last set is worn out not because it's the latest in camo patterns. My boots are usually the same ones I work in because they are well worn and broken in.
My weapons are the same , simple yet effective. A good scope and bolt action are all I really want in a rifle and my old pump shotgun will do just fine thank you.
The most important part of the hunt for me is fooling whatever I am after. I also spend a lot of time watching the wild world go by while I am out there. Observing is just one way of learning about nature itself. Each animal tells me something new when I am in their world . Even when fishing one eye is on the cork and the other is watching th wildlife around me. It is a place where I can be at peace with the world. Jimmie
It seems that we may be in the humble beginnings of an esoteric journey with this thread.
I like it.......... :biggrin:
Bop,
"esoteric journey" Are you talking about people over a certain age or over a certain level of intelligence? I would have to agree that the people that listen to radio station W I I F M (What's In It For Me) only care about the number of kills and not much else.
Jerry
Quote from: Bopeye on June 19, 2007, 04:13:08 PM
esoteric journey
:confused:
That's some deep stuff :wo:
Amen!!! The good old days were some of my best :yoyo:
The kill is just a bonus.
Going to the woods and watching nature unfold is what it is all about.
I love to watch the sun come up or go down, to watch the squirrels chase each other,watch the young deer of the year play in the field,etc,etc but the best part of it is when I have one of my kids with me to watch it all!
Helluva post!! I hunt because I can come home with a clear head. I don't know exactly what it is about being out there but it works for me. I am always relaxed & don't think I've ever had a bad hunt. Maybe it ended a little bad once in a while from a poor shot probably on my part,,, but a bad hunt,,, I don't recall any. Thanks for this post. I know I take my 78 year old Dad's hunting trips for granted at times but posts like this one rekindles the memories!! :congrats:
Quote from: Hawks Feather on June 19, 2007, 04:38:40 PM
Bop,
"esoteric journey" Are you talking about people over a certain age or over a certain level of intelligence? I would have to agree that the people that listen to radio station W I I F M (What's In It For Me) only care about the number of kills and not much else.
Jerry
Hmmm....I was talking more about those of us who are of likeminds. :biggrin:
You know.........the whole being at one with nature type stuff. Nobody understands it any better than an outdoorsman. :wink:
I don't think we can ever become one with nature. It's just not possible in these modern times. But we can observe and enjoy what we see and learn out there.
As for age, yes , it does take some maturity for many to start seeing what is truly out there. It hits each and every one of us at diferent times and ways. For some it happens in their twenties and others may never reach that point no matter their age. The folks that are after the numbers alone have no idea of what they are missing out on.
It seems to me as time goes on AND I get older, there is less and less time for what I love. So each moment I can get out there is very precious to me. I even steal each moment I can when I should be working here around the house. When checking fences my eyes are on the ground reading the stories they leave behind for me. Watching even the humming birds and squirrels at the feeders is a moment of escape from the world we live in today. Even sitting here talking with everyone helps bring back memmories I will carry with me always. Now I got to get back to work, see yah'll in the funny papers. Jimmie
The quickest way I know to become "one" with "nature" is to try and pet a wild grizzley. They are supposed to have a pretty fast metabolism in the summer and it shouldn't take you long :)
AL
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com
Call me whacked out or whatever, but I do believe we can be one with nature at times. It doesn't happen all that often, but it does happen for me at times. Special moments that I will never forget.
I was setting on a log a few years back, pondering on the mysteries of the cosmos or something of equal importance, when a grey squirrel crawled up on log next to me and just sat there. I could have reached out and touched him. We sat there for a little while and he was looking at everything but me. Who knows........maybe he was pondering the mysteries of the cosmos too, but whatever the reason..........he was a very welcome companion on that day. I sat and watched him for the next hour or so dig around in the leaf litter making his living until he finally went out of sight.
I know to the rest of the world that moment in time means nothing, but to me.........I don't have the words. :wink:
If it's all the same to you Al, I don't want to pet a grizzly...... :nono:
I've had that same thing happen Bopeye. But I start visualizing the thing jumping on me thinking I'm a tree, sinking those rat claws into me :holdon:
I became one with nature this weekend, by the way. Did you see my picture :eyebrownod:
Jimmy,
It sounds like you are a tracker. You have made mention of things like this in other post that I picked up on here on FnF, but never over on the other site.
Back in the mid 80's I was sent to Tom Browns school in NJ for two weeks. Learned a lot there. You're right about slipping through the woods still hunting. Used to love to do that with the long bow and the smoke pole. Now, you get shot in any of the gun seasons trying that here. Early bow season you can do it though. But I find still hunting to be very exhausting. At the end of a day I am whooped. It's very hard on my eyes too. I'm more of a sitter now days. Like to fall asleep under a tree - ask Browning204 LOL. Living in the city, it's such a joy to get away from the traffic and the noise and all the day to day things that so many people just accept as normal.
I'm not sure any of us will ever be able to become one with nature in the woods today. But we can be accepted. It's a mind set. I think the animals can sense it.
I wonder how it would have been to have been alive back when guys like Simon Kenton were paving the way for the rest of us with the other long hunters, or the mountain men and fur trappers of the Rockies. I wonder how many of us could survive that kind of life today? Not many I think. And one day we may have to find out. We live a soft life. A good life in most respects, but I think it has muted our senses and left us helpless should we lose the modern day things we have come to rely on in place of our own wits.
Al
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com
thogamecalls@comcast.net
None of us could deal with what Simon Kenton did in his lifetime. And if just half the stories are true he was one hell of a man . He was one of my heroes as were Jedediah Smith, Daniel Boone, Bluejacket, Tom Fitzpatrick and Kit Carson.
I too often wonder about modern man surviving such times. I know the next generation can't already, thye are softer than we are. And they think there is absolutely no need to know how to produce their own food or even buildany kind of shelter. I have been aiming to learn how to build the cane fishtraps the cherokee made for a long time and just haven't done it yet. Jimmie
I can show ya how to build cane fish traps to be used in a river......... :wink:
That's no B.S. Learned it from an old man here when I was in my early 20's. He was still using an outhouse and getting his water from a well until he died in 1991 at the ripe old age of 87. Tough old bird. He had two hernias the size of your fists and finally decided to go get them checked out. They went to take them out and saw he was full of cancer as well. Never heard him complain of pain........ever.
I wish I would have listened more closely to him when he was here. :sad:
He had a rooster that only had one leg. He said it lost it's leg in a trap, but anywho, he whittled that crazy bird a wooden leg and put it on...........funniest dang thing I ever saw!!! :laf:
That was bout the only thing my grandfather didn't know or decided I didn't need to :eyebrownod: He taught me about a lot of other things over the years as I grew up. As for th rooster he and my grandmother would have had dumplings :biggrin: She always said I was born a hundred years too late. I put a many a frogleg on their table with a bow.
Now would that be the woven like a basket trap about five feet or so long with the funnel at one end? Jimmie
Al
thats not Rambling to me,,its just the good ole truth :eyebrownod:
Bob
Nice post Al there are many hunters that rate there hunting trips on what they kill.I personal quite hunting with a good friend because when we would go out of town hunting he would get mad if he didn't kill something.He wouldn't enjoy the time he had being away home because it was all about killing.
Quote from: Jimmie in Ky on June 21, 2007, 02:04:48 PM
Now would that be the woven like a basket trap about five feet or so long with the funnel at one end? Jimmie
Oops......different type trap. This old man would take river cane and make a makeshift corral with it and would weave grapevine through the river cane. The fish would go in very easy, but would have a heck of a time finding their way back out. They rarely got back out, but it happened some. He'd then take a fish net and just scoop out the fish he wanted. Once he got his share he would simply uproot the river cane and let it float away. I'll put a makeshift drawing up if I can make one that looks worth anything.
Excellent post Al.....seems north and south are not so far from one another in certain aspects.....I enjoyed the post.
While Jimmy and Bop were conversing, it made me think. They are right...the old ways of doing many things are passing/have passed...perhaps we should make a sticky thread on how to do what things some of us may know....like the cane fish traps etc......to simply preserve them. I am certain our parents/grandparents passed things down to most of us...these things and the way to do them are being lost daily as that generation dies out, so for posterity, perhaps we should......
It would provide hours of entertainment/information for us all here in the off-season...heck, it might even cause us to reflect a little on pleasant things...
Ya'll think it is a dumb idea or a good one??
Anyway, sorry Al....didn't mean to hijack your thread....just made me think and become a little melancholy for a few.
Joe
Not a hi jack at all. I think it's a great idea. I also think we might want to start something on a survival thread. What to take, to do, that kind of stuff. I know most guys carry a cell phone, but sometimes you get someplace where it wont work.
I think we should get Jimmy to start something on tracking too :)
After we started this, I went to the atic and dug up an old box of books. I have one I got back in 1985 or 6 from Tom Brown. It's called wilderness survival I think. It was one of the books we used in his classes. Man that thing is beat up LOL.
Lt's see where it goes.
AL
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com
thogamecalls@comcast.net
Joe
I think it is a GREAT IDEA !!! :highclap: :highclap: :highclap:
Bob
I knew about that one Bopeye, it is a very useful subsistance tool when you need it. But it is also an obvious one now and with folks being what they are today they tear them up instead of using them. A lot of those were built so that only a rising river would destroy them and they were in constant use by the whole tribe or neighborhood while they lasted. Then another was built to replace them when damaged. There are also several diferent styles to that trap and all are very effective when in the right place. There are very few people living today who have seen one of these in use, you are very fortunate to have had that oportunity.
The basket trap can be concealed and used constantly over a long period of time. Unless someone is very observant they are not likely to be found and raided or destroyed. And being made of wood still totaly legal in many states.
I agree that a thread on old methods of doing would be a good one. There are several such sites on the web but they are very hard to find. The particular trap I am looking for , I have only seen in renderings by traveling artist done during the period.Naturally being the type of people we are today, none of these traps are still in existance in their real form.Perhaps among all of us with our various hobbies we can learn how these things were done and recreate them.
Al, I learned tracking by observing what I saw in the woods and fields as a boy. Way back when I was reading the stories of my heroes from days long past. I spent as much time in the fields as time and my parents would allow. I read everything I could get my hands on that pertained to th outdoors or that period in our nations history. I have read so much on animals and their signs that I imediately recognized a track last winter when I saw it for the first time. I would have loved to take the time to learn more about that animal in that place but time would not allow it. But by paying attention to what I observed , I know that cougars in the LBL stay away from coyotes when possible. It explains why I have missed finding the sign I was asked to look for. I even found my pics of these tracks hidden in my cameras memory.
There are a lot of little things that can make folks more sucsesful in the outdoors when observing sign in the fields. I can try and teach this online if folks wish. All the sign you see has a story to tell, you just have to learn how to interpret what you see. Jimmie
Arky, my friend, that is an absolutely excellent idea! :congrats: :yoyo:
I'm all for it.
Jimmie, sorry I had the wrong trap in mind, but I asked my father about it. He remembers the old oblong shaped basket traps that were woven with saplings. He didn't know how to make them though, but he did remember some of the old timers using them.
Here's a sorry pic I drew using paint program, so it's poorly done.........I hope you get the idea though.
The arrows denote the flow of the water and direction of fish traveling.
The large vertical sticks denote the river cane sticks.
The narrower haphazardly placed lines denote the woven grapevine.
That old man use to catch a lot of fish in these buggers. He'd approach the trap from upstream to scare more fish into the trap and muddy the water. He claimed by muddying up the water the fish would be more disoriented until he could reach the opening of the trap. He would then stand in the opening keeping one leg to completely block the escape route. Then he would allow the current to clear the mud away for him to see the fish. Once he saw the fish, he'd just start scooping them out.
Here's a poorly drawn picture, but you get the idea.
(http://www.huntingpictures.net/data/529/328fish_trap-med.jpg)
:confused: (http://www.championtannery.com/smilies/what.gif) :huh:
Ya ever seen a cattle corral? It works like that............. :rolleye:
i see we have Jim wondering what the heck we are talking about. Poor Yankees just don't get it do they :eyebrownod:
There is also a v pattern trap that is a suscescion of v's that get smaller as the fish pass through each one. The idea is similar to a sorting shute. But the end result is that the fish all wind up in the small section at the end where they are easily netted. these are set with the current coming down through the trap , Opposite of your diagram. These were left in constant operation. Most useful during spawning migrations.
I think the trap your dad told you about was the one I am looking for. Anyone have any ideas of where I can find the info to build it.Jimmie
Or you can just use some Carbide and a Baby Food Jar :laf:
I REALLY DO Think the Idea of putting all these things and Jimmies Know How and EVERYONES know how is a VERY GOOD IDEA :wo: and I would read everything on it
Thank you
Bob
Joe and Al,,you guys have a great idea for sure,and you too Jimmie
Jimmie,
I have a Native American book I have had for many years. It has instructions and pictures of the trap your looking for in it. If I can get it scanned I will post it for you to print off if you like?
Brent
Ya ever see the traps that Ragnar Benson made? Crazy simple, but effective....... :wink:
I believe he learned a lot of his trapping techniques from a native american grandpa or something like that. :confused:
I thought Bop's drawing looked like a Weir fish trap, a very old design.
Saxon Fish Weirs:
Scroll down to the bottom of the link page to see the type of trap Bop is describing.
http://www.arch.soton.ac.uk/Research/justin/saxon%20fisheries.html
Another site that shows several types of devices, including the basket trap:
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/food-4.php
Not enough info there Chet. But they did give instruction for an illegal gill net though :wink: That is what I keep finding everywhere I look. I can weave th basket but don't know enough about the loading doors for bait or to remove the fish.I am starting to think the tie at the end is the trick to it. Jimmie
Well, Jimmie.... I guess it's back to using Dupont spinners :rolleye:
Al, very timely thread for me as well.
About 5 years ago I asked myself the very same questions about hunting. I would obsess over getting some of the latest equipment to use and would spend a wad of dough getting it, only to sacfrifice a few hunting trips because suddenly I couldnt afford to go, having bought all the junk. I decided to stop, and simplify my life a little and get back to basics.
Actually it all started with compound bows. I grew up on a recurve, but switched to a compound. Then I had to get all the crap that goes with them, which adds up quick. But then again, it all looks professional like and you look like you know what your doing.
Then, just like computers, that compound is out of date a year later. It still shoots, but it aint good enough.So, off to the archery shop...
The last couple years I have switched back to a recurve and LOVE it. I have so much more fun with it. My buddies think Im crazy, that is untill we shoot.
So Im on a quest to simplify things and have more fun when it comes to all forms of hunting for me.
Btw, I would enjoy the survival topics. I just got back from a two day "wandering" in the woods, by myself. Partly scouting for deer season here in August(bow) and partly just practicing my "self reliance" and tracking skills.
Hey Al, I envy you getting to attend a Tom Brown school. I have taken a couple short survival courses, but would like to do his.
Just please tell me you didnt run out and buy " the knife"?
LOL - no, back then, we all carried the Gerber Mark III. It was a macho thing.
Al
Anyone know how to start a fire using a coke can and a chocolate bar? :innocentwhistle:
YEP
you sit down and drink the Coke,eat the Chocolate bar and pull your lighter out and "flick your Bic"
Bob
Quote from: ohiobob on June 24, 2007, 05:27:50 PM
YEP
you sit down and drink the Coke,eat the Chocolate bar and pull your lighter out and "flick your Bic"
Bob
:doh2: ................ :roflmao:
You can take a chocolate bar and rub it on the bottom of a coke, pepsi, beer, whatever......can.
Continue to rub the chocolate on it in a circular motion occasionally wiping it clean with a rag, shirt whatever. When it get's to a high shine you can use it almost like we did as kids with magnifying glasses.
Put a little tinder down. Let the sun shine on the bottom of the can and reflect off of it and concentrate the light just like though glass.
It works. :wink: