I was wondering why coyotes howl in some areas and not others.I guess it is for safety but a few places I hunt are less then 20 minutes apart and in one place you will here them and others you won't.
First thing I'd want to know is if there are actually coyotes in the OTHER area. How do you know there is?
The other thing to keep in mind is Coyotes dont run around and howl all over the place. The OTHER place you refer too may very well belong to the group your hearing, but it's a bedding area or something.
Good question. I wish I had a answer for you, but coyotes are just coyotes. We can only hope to understand as much about them as we can and most of that is just opinion or theory.
There could be several reasons. Those coyotes could have Territorial boundary's that run close together in that area. Or it could be due to pressure. Odds are that they do howl, its just a matter of being there in the area and getting the coyotes in the right place at the right time. Coyotes use howls for communication so odds are they are howling at some point or the other.
If you only 20 minutes away from the other area there is a good chance that it is the same group your hearing. Your just hearing them in there core area.
Brent
There is coyotes in the area that I never hear them because I have shot them in both areas,But the area that I never hear them I also bow hunt for deer and I spend alot of time there and never hear them.but it could be like Kee Kee said they could be howling late at nite.
they were barking n howling out by the lake the other night. it sounded like a big group of em out there. made the dogs go nuts!
Like Brent posted, we don't know all the answers about the various howls, why they howl at times and not at others, etc., but I am convinced that most of their howling is communicating with either their mate or another pack. "We are over here", "Time to start heading to bed", "I am horny and need a mate", etc.. Anyone who tells you they know exactly what each coyote vocalization means must be a talking coyote (lol). The threat, bark howl is about the only vocalization that clearly indicates you have either been busted or they are threatening back in response to your howling. All these other names that famous hunters have given to the various howls is a theory, and not a proven one. The so called "Female invitational howl" and how you do it as explained on some of the best selling videos doesn't bring any more coyotes in looking for love that just a long, lonesome howl, based on my experience. They don't always howl back, but they all react in some way.
T4- not sure what part of the country your from etc. but it is not just as simple as going out and howling with a howler and knowing how many and where they are. You will get responses from some but many things have to be considered to get an accurate account of what is actually there.
The time of day or night you howl, are they out hunting or are they in a bedding area. Moon phase will effect this, extreme weather will affect this. Water in the summer, little pups that can't move, mobile pups like now but still pups.
How you howl, listen to coyotes, there is a method to their madness. You will here it once you start listening for it. Coyotes do not always respond by howling they may be responding by coming to your howls if you are in the territory the call home.
Learning to locate from between territorial lines, or neutral ground usually will get more responses. This something that must be learned out in the field. You may be right on top of coyotes howling and they react by coming in to run off whatever coyote you are trying to be. In essence you made a stand locating and never new it.
Any wind will knock down your locating, calm nights will also fire up coyotes for long distances causing confusion as to exactly where they are. A ten mile an hour wind and coyotes in a rustling cornfield a mile away won't hear you, or coyotes downwind won't be heard by you howling back. Wind in coyotes ears with their hearing causes them to shut it down, imagine the noise it makes with the acute hearing. All the rustling etc. Not to mention they will be down out of it if they can be.
After you gather your locating info you must determine what is worth while etc. to help in your calling. Its not good or bad, any info is good info some is just better than others. Seeing a pattern will become evident in your country and this will make your calling stands more productive.
You may not take it to the levels I have laid out but many great day of calling has had many hours of locating done before it ever happened. It doesn't mean you must locate every time before you go out, once you get an idea in your country where they are your good to go. You will be surprised where coyotes do show up sometimes though, places you never thought they were in get revealed on a good night of locating. Randy Roede
Don't coyotes only howl from home turf?? Maybe he hears them in one spot being "home turf" and the other area, even though he has shot them there, maybe is not a home turf. Maybe it is hunting grounds or a travel route?
Or could be the same family group that owns that hole area.
OR, maybe I am just plain wrong!!!!
Randy, that's a good post. Some people have of a poor understanding of what it takes to get a coyote to hear your howl and also what it takes for you to hear their howl. As you know location,cover,distance, terrain all play a part in vocal responses and the ability for you to locate them. My contention is that most people who have coyote that are nonvocal are just not putting themselves in position to hear them or are too close that they won't respond vocally. It's like spring turkey hunting, in mid-April with no leaves on the trees or in the understory, you can hear a turkey gobble from a mile away, where as in late may if you hear one gobble you better sit down and kill him. He's probably only a couple hundred yards away
Right now most of our coyote are in the corn. Very difficult to get a howl in there for them to hear, but also extremely hard for a person to hear their howl. We like to drop one person off and then the other drive a mile or so and have one or both howl. One person might hear the coyote that the other can't hear because of the variables. Also a big help in triangulating the exact location.
Greeside yep in Iowa this time of year, cornfields with a water source = coyotes. Good tip for everyone on getting a fix on where they are at, in Iowa with allot of roads sometimes it is hard to know exactly where they are, but with the roads you can move and figure out what section they are in, not a luxury we have here. This all hinges on getting them to howl, maybe more than once. Rustling corn will kill allot of responses, a dead calm night will reveal coyotes you never new were there.
Locating between known coyote holding cover will get the best reaction. Why? It's natural and your coyotes respond to it vocally, it's not to far in and not to far away. Coyotes howl to announce their presence to other coyotes in that area. They do it whether your there or not, only difference is your making them do it when you want.
204 you are assuming coyotes wonder all over the country, it maybe the case where you are but here they have a territory and for the most part they stay in it and so do all the other existing coyotes in that group. At certain times of the year boundaries are crossed but a pup unsure of himself right after dispersal is not going to be very vocal when he hears another coyote. These same pups are looking for their own space and once they find it they tend to be more vocal and sure of themselves,but until then they are pretty timid.
You will learn by what you get in terms of type of howls whether you are dealing with a aggressive territorial pair, a group of coyotes etc. all are called accordingly. Information many do not use.
Right now in my area, knowing which section they are in might not even be enough, you might even have to get it down to which quarter of which quarter section in order to have much success. Down ti a gnats ass so to speak.
Just to go and sit in some pasture or hayfield without knowing exactly where they are can be very frustrating and uneventful
When I was a bit more into this summer time calling, sometimes I'd go out at 1 in the morning and locate coyote until around three or so. Then head home, get a few hours of sleep and then go back and shoot a coyote or two. Getting a little to old for that now! If I didn't make it out for a couple of days I'd have to go out and relocate them.
""204 you are assuming coyotes wonder all over the country, it maybe the case where you are but here they have a territory and for the most part they stay in it and so do all the other existing coyotes in that group. At certain times of the year boundaries are crossed but a pup unsure of himself right after dispersal is not going to be very vocal when he hears another coyote. These same pups are looking for their own space and once they find it they tend to be more vocal and sure of themselves,but until then they are pretty timid.""
Not assuming that but, I was thinking along the lines of, IF those coyotes have a 20 mile territory. They could possibly be the same group.
I was just saying, don't mind me.
browning204
Are you typing what the voices in your head are telling you AGAIN ??? :laf: :laf: :laf: This is a VERY INTERESTING Thread to me because God Knows I need to learn more about Corn,,er,,uh,,I mean Howling,,I need to figure out HOW to PLAY the RIGHT TUNE when Locating Coyotes,,well TRYING to locate Coyotes by Howling,,I am ALL CORNFUSED when it comes to this stuff !!!
Bob
when howling at night in my findings, It didn't matter what type of howls I did, I just got a response if coyotes are there.
Then again, I use an E-caller, I will try to use the beautifull howler I got from THO next time.
If I am locating to find coyotes to hunt later, or finding new area to hunt. I like to stick with a Group howl. And stay away from the lone howls. I want a vocal response from them and not a approach. I have better luck with the group howls for locating and run a lower risk of getting a approach. I also try and pick my spot to locate from wisely, this way I can get in and out of the area easy and quite, and even then make sure I got a good wind direction. It don't do no good to try and get a vocal response from them if your wind is blowing right to were they are. I also make sure I take a drive threw the area in the daylight before I locate in that area. This will give you a good idea of the lay of the land.
Brent
What's cool about this point and time in the game here, is the pups are giving up their locations. I have been out a few times here lately and found them without even howling. I don't lone howl, I found that alot of barking and a few howls will get a vocal response from them here. It's usually the lead dog throwin a warning at me and then the whole group chimes in with a war cry. That's what I have been experimenting with this year. I do know though, I can always rely on the group yip howl for locating them.
Bob, just keep reading this thread over and over and over and it should sink in. :biggrin: If not...we'll just have to take ya out and show ya. :biggrin:
JD
204, not sure about numbers etc. in your area but a 20 mile territory would mean low numbers in your area or a 20 mile stretch of less than ideal coyote habitat. 20 miles of prime country with good numbers should hold more than one group, once again not familiar with your area. To me it is a very large territory if indeed that is the case. Possible!
Brent, if you use a group howl always you will be spooking YOY coyotes come dispersal and these coyotes will not respond to the call. Your groups that still are together will sound off but most singles and lower ranking coyotes will move away from a group of coyotes, give them room, not all just some. You can drive coyotes out of some country by locating. Let's just say it is Nov. some YOY are in this block of country you are going to locate in, just got their butts beat by an adult coyote, driven out of the group by ma and pa and maybe sis, now they here another group of coyotes, you, do you think these coyotes will give away their location to possibly get another beatin. Or a young just got together pair in Jan. will be intimidated by a group of coyotes, that sound off , may not, but will be very reluctant to come that way should you try to call them toward where you located from. Old aggressive coyotes in established territories and its all different. When I first started I used group howls exclusively to locate, it would work fine at times, then it would go silent then pickup again, and maybe where you are it works flawlessly, but I would be willing to bet in the fall those YOY you really want to locate because they are the real suckers for calling are not so eager to show you where they are.
Why does a siren work for locating, it's not a group thing, not a challenging thing, its a nonthreatening sound that triggers a vocal response that travels long distances. The further away the more likely to get a vocal response, to far away and humans can't hear it. A siren has long been a coyote locater way before any group locater tape, sounds and sequences put together with a siren can make a difference if your siren is so equipped.
In this wide open country you can visualize what happens, coyotes do come to a group howl on occasion, especially old dominant coyotes willing to run however many off their turf. I've also on rare occasions see them come busting across the pasture to a siren, no black and white in this sport, it's what makes it great!!
There isn't any sure fire always works 100% of the time locater call, it changes from season to season, and from where you make it from in your area, the area you live in, number of coyotes in your area, what I do now to locate coyotes will locate coyotes in Dec. but it will spook some, so I go to a locater that reduces the risk of that but still locates coyotes.
Greenside can locate coyotes in Iowa at three in the morning and still have them there come day light, and I used to live in Iowa , been there done that, cover is limited etc. it works. Here where the coyotes are at three in the morning may be no where near where they will be come light. Location of coyotes right at sundown or right at sunrise is more important to me, getting them to either respond vocally or visually during daylight is golden. I can eliminate a ton of country and have a plan of attack, wind ,terrain ,etc.
The best part of all this locating is that from now until whenever this information you gather in your area will pay off forever! You may hunt these areas in the future without locating because once you did hear something there and went in to investigate you now have found a honeyhole and it all makes sense.
This sport ,like most others,you reap what you sew, put the time in the field and absorb what you see and hear and you will do fine. You can watch it and read it but the only way you will learn is to do it in the field!
This is something I use almost every time out, which on average is 150 plus days a year, work or off time. Night and day!
Randy,
I don't locate in hunting season very often, I do all my locating, scouting, and finding new land in the summer and spring. And I wont not say that group howls spook YOY coyotes all the time, I'm sure some of them maybe but not all of them. We howl in several YOY coyotes every year on stands. I think the place you locate from has allot to do with what kind of response you will get. I do my locating to find the areas that hold coyotes, are numbers are not good here and I haft to find the right areas that hold Coyotes. I would rather spook them to a howl than have them show up at my truck and bust me. I understand you saying a satellite coyote may not respond but that's ok. I don't go off just locating to find areas to hunt, sign, sightings, and other things help me pick areas as well.
I am curious as to why you think they would leave there new found territory over one group howl. If they have set up in this territory they have spent some time there. They would know were the territorial boundary's were already by scent marking and other vocalizations from near by groups. And there is always the chance they can loose there territory at anytime, but with low numbers its not likely here in my area. From what I have seen coyotes tend to be less aggressive with trespassing coyotes if there is good food and water and plenty of good ground, other than in denning season, and core areas. More curiosity approach than anything it seems. But this is just my opinion.Other wise you would be able to set down inside there territory and howl or group howl and they would run us over every time. I have also found that yoy coyotes that have had there butts kicked and don't have a solid territory don't answer much at all for fear of giving there location away to local coyotes. Like you said after several butt kicking they get shy, but this will also effect there response to a distress call on a stand, fear in there approach and caution in areas with high coyotes populations. Go into a area with low numbers were a yoy has not been pressured by other coyotes and they are likely to charge in with out thought to a distress call.
The group yep howls do appeal to older coyotes more. Well, I should say coyotes that have established territory's. That's part of why they respond so well to them. The threat of another group of coyotes in or near there territory or moving threw there territory.
Sirens work here in some areas and some they do not. I hunt allot of urban areas that sirens go off several times a day and night. They get use to them so to speak. They will still howl at them but not like they do to a group yip howl. I would recommend a siren to guys that can get them to go vocal to them.
Brent
Brent if you are in low number areas coyotes will change locations for whatever reasons easier than in country with high numbers, not rocket science. The give and take will be much different.
Differences in numbers and country are things each individual has to deal with, I didn't say you can't howl in a YOY in Nov. you can ,it's that you will spook some of them, not all ,some, and yea those YOY coyotes maybe reluctant to check out distress but they usually will check it out, not always but for the most part. The point being, what was the advantage of howling in that time frame. . Not to mention the fact that I still have an ace in the hole, howling, to work in this country later, like mating season, and pup in distress on a return trip. If I get weather extremes in the winter and times are hard well distress jumps to the head of the class again. Unless a person has endless acres and never needs to call in the same country again .
A young pair, first time partners, in Jan. not quite sure of things, have a territory but just , they may move than risk an encounter with a group of coyotes, this is why I feel a group locater has some disadvantages,a single howl or a siren is allot less threatening. If you can only get coyotes to answer with group howls well then your stuck. I did not mean they would leave for good but till they realize the danger is no longer present. Although possible.
If like you said coyotes are more territory sharing there, I would think howling would be even less effective. Howling is usually most effective in a well established and defended territory. I guess I am not sure because you say they are tolerant and then not when in the core area? From what I see a dominant coyote is that pretty much that, wherever he goes and whatever he does. Once again what I see.
Sirens as you stated my point exactly nonthreatening, singular, and there is a method to it's madness.
I am curious that your locating in spring and summer holds till fall and winter, here when raising young they are tied to a nearby water source, then some type of shade with a water source as pups are more mobile, harvest,then the hunting season starts and some get moved, and then prey sources dictate where thy will be. Territories change here, sometimes not very far sometimes quite a distance. Denning areas and wintering areas are way different! They may not be where you are.
Where I am from, the coyotes territories are so confined by roads, towns and houses that one really doesn't need to locate by howling. Plus after many years of hunting the same areas over and over, I know where they are, that's how limited there space is here.
As far as group yip howling to them, I look at it like calling that given spot. It's not something we'd do on a day to day basis. To the point of driving the insecure out. I know out west where there are limited roads, towns, houses and such and very different habitats within acres and acres of land, locating where they are at certain times of the year would be important. For us, come hunting season, there is no need to locate them as these areas are so limited and there locations do not change like they would if they had acres and acres of land to roam and follow food sources.
Randy, when you do howl to locate, what howl are you using?
JD
Canine, you hit the nail on the head, much of the cover is gone in the east after harvest, unless you are in timber country, my favorite time is right after bean harvest using the bean stubble to call those cornfield coyotes onto. Trouble is in most places after the harvest and come first snow the pickup boys get everything fearing for their lives and the old dogs have learned from the year before to lay low come daylight.Holes, flow tubes, or just plain shy and timid! Hunt them as hard as you can before the first snow.
Canine I locate all year long, and often all day long. If I had a perfect time to it's any dead calm low moon lit night.
There is no one sound that will locate coyotes year round that I know of, I use different howls depending on many different things, time of year, when I want to hunt certain areas, wind, etc. all factor in.
My advice to you in your country is to listen to your coyotes and how the naturally start sounding off and how it kicks in the others. Also listen to what shuts them up and keeps them quiet.
Single lonesome howls with a hand call, electronic call, voice howls, sirens etc. and patience to let them answer, it won't happen right away all the time it may take 10 minutes or more, they may answer the third time you try in the same area. Why well maybe now you have gotten between two groups and it sounds more natural, and maybe just because.
I guessing Canine your in farm country? Ever notice once you get all the farmdogs barking coyotes will suddenly chime in. Use bridges, aban buildings etc. to hide you while locating and don't over do it. Maybe three howls or sequences and shut up, and once I get them howling I never howl again. I don't challenge them in any way. I think less when locating leads to more vocal responses.
Fortunately we don't have pickup boy's runnin and gunnin around my parts. To many potential witness's. Honestly, I don't feel even if we did have, that it would effect a coyote as far as responding to a call. They are two different situations. A coyote that will cross an open field here will do so in a way he still feels secure, low spot in the field or by putting a knoll of somesort between it and the sound source and sneeking to the top for a peek. Then it's just a matter of coaxing them just enough more for the shot. So wether they are shot at from houses or pick ups or not shot at, they will still be cautious.
Coyote populations here have risen to the point that smaller territories have been established and coyotes are far more vocal, with provoked howling responses becoming more common during the daytime.
Hunting in the early season is a struggle here, to damn many bow hunters! I'm guilty there too :biggrin: every woods has someone perched in a tree waiting on a monster buck, by the way there are not that many monsters in Ohio like everyone thinks :innocentwhistle:
Coyotes here, unless effected by moon phase or weather typically sound off on there own starting with the dominant coyote rally call with the rest chiming in. Both in the evening and morning, basically saying hello and good bye.
Farm country exactly, your right, when it's dead silent at 2 AM and I let out a couple barks or howls or a group yip howl and the dogs start goin nuts across the country side, it isn't long before a pack will light up followed by another pack, kinda like a domino effect :laf:
I mostly go out at night just to hear them howling, listen to there vocals to learn from, to incorporate somethin into a stand. If I run into a coyote that threat howls at me at night I will challenge him right back, there again a learning experience. I like to see what I can and can't get away with, of all the ones both daytime and nighttime I have coaxed into a yelling match have not approached close enough to wind me. They usually stay there distance. Although a couple daytimers weren't quite far enough, the 250 still reached them :biggrin: I am not hunting to put up great numbers, mostly because we don't have them in the first place, When it comes to howling season I wanna be able to control them more efficiently.
JD
Its just my opinion and I may get a lot of bad responces for saying this. I feel that howling is over rated. In my area if you howl it tends to push coyotes futher from the location. I have used fawn distress and got the coyotes to howl. I have even tried pup howls with no responce. So I guess its safe to say that it depends on the area that you hunt. I dont want to stir anything up just have to use what works.
I locate in the spring, summer and early fall just to find areas that have coyotes. This cuts my leg work way down. After I have found them or areas that have coyotes. I then go get the permission I need in that area to hunt. Then put in my leg work to find the sign, travel routs, thickets and such. Its all private land here, farms from 30 to 500 acer lots. I don't get any big chunks of land to hunt, I haft to piece them together. They will move, but not far. I have allot of water here, and its not hard for them to find food at all. No need for them to go to far. I'm just looking for the general area and how many groups are in the area. I do the rest of the work on foot.
I live in the timber, but the area is very diverse. Strip mines, clear cuts, hard wood, swamps and cattle farms. I can drive 20 min and be in flat land, crop fields, river bottoms. Just about what ever I want to hunt.
The numbers are getting better every year. But we are a ways away from having big numbers, in a few years things maybe different. JD is three and half hrs from me and you would not believe the numbers difference between here and there. KY is right across the river from me, 20 min. I can hunt places over there that have good numbers. There are areas in KY that I can cold call and know that I will call coyotes. Here in my area, not as good of a chance but its getting better.
What I meant on the coyotes being tolerant to trespassers, is this. In denning season it all different, they will defend the core denning area. After the pups are grown, they are less aggressive to other coyotes and will tolerate more. Small blocks of land, roads, rivers, large creeks help keep territorial boundary's in check here. They are not going to go to far till they haft to cross one of them. Very seldom do we get a coyote that comes charging in barking and threat howling. Most of the time if we do, its in denning season. Later in the fall, or early fall they tend to lay back in a bit of cover and bark and threat howl. But there is no competition for food, just about any were they set up territory's they got good food and water. Deer, rabbits, mice, birds, squirrels are plentiful here.
I work hard doing my home work so that I don't haft to call the same place more than a couple times. I put together enough land to get me threw the season with out over calling a area or calling it more than a couple times. Not to say that if I have a good area that I wont call it more if it is producing well.
I didn't say that they would not answer lone howls. Just that I preferred for locating reasons not to use them. I go with the group howl or siren. I want a vocal response from them, not a approach. And with using lone howls your just as likely to not get a vocal response and they just slip in silent and your busted. I agree a 100% on the waiting part. Sometimes it take as much as 20-30 minutes to get a response after locating. I think the reason for that is the coyotes move to a safety zone or core area before responding.
I howl year around when hunting. I like to incorporate vocalizations into my stands when calling and it works well for us here. I don't howl on every stand but I would say 95% of them. And many times after a stand of distress crys, I have switched over to coyote vocals and drew out coyotes. Pup distress is a sound I run on every stand. I almost always end my stands with pup distress. And many times that's what pulls them in. If I have a ace, why not use it? I maybe back to this spot later in the year maybe not, but if I can take that coyote on the first go at this stand I would rather do that. This goes back to the amount of time I spend finding areas to hunt, to make sure I have enough to get me threw the season. Plus fact is we like to howl. I enjoy seeing the coyotes reactions, getting vocal responses and learning from them. Seeing just what it takes to pull them that little extra. We are not going to put up big numbers here anyway.
I haft to agree with JD, we have found that the cold, snow, and nasty make for much better calling than the early fall time frame. The colder the better, and some snow never hurts, not allot just enough to make them work for there food.
Different things and tactics work for different people, in different areas. You just haft to find what works for you in your area and then use it the best you can.
One point Randy stated about getting a response right away is right on the money. It may take ten minutes or more, but when they do respond , you generally get different groups to kick in. Our coyotes up here respond to howls all day long . Not always but quite a bit.
OK,,here is what works for me
Bob
Even though I know that it can take some time to get a vocal response out of coyotes, I seldom stay and wait for more than 5 or so minutes. My approach is more like the run and gun method used by some callers. I'll pull over and let things calm down for a bit and then give a short series of lone howls and if no response in a couple of minutes may do another lone howl or just a single howl and give it another minute or two. If I get a response, I usually give it another minute or two to listen for distance howls and then get back in the truck and silently drive away. And I never play with them under any circumstances , things like trying to see if I can make them them howl again, challenge bark etc. Then I'll drive a few miles down the road and repeat the process. In a couple of hours, if the night is right and their howling, It's possible to locate a heck of a lot or coyote in a short amount of time. Very handy when hunting a new spot far from home and you need a starting point the next day. When staying in out of town motels I definitely spend a couple of hours after sunset and also before sunrise locating.
One of the reasons I don't spend much time waiting is the fact that I mainly use lone howls. And I always go on the assumption that close coyote are going to be less vocal(depending on how close) and are more than likely to come to the call.
Just some of my thoughts on the subject.
On the siren issue, I don't use it very often in my area. Seems like it brings out the nosey farmers wondering why a siren just sounded off down the road. It's happened too many times that soon after using one, out of the farm yard here comes a pickup and you have no choice other than to hang tight and wait to tell him what's up. When in more isolated areas i have the tendency to use one more often and also use on occasion to relocate coyotes that I hope to be going in on in a short time. BTW: On a couple of occasions,my howls were followed by gunshots. Heads down or stay behind the truck when howling tight to farm yards. :shrug:
Dennis
Quote from: ohiobob on July 22, 2007, 11:42:10 PM
OK,,here is what works for me
Bob
:confused: :wo: :confused:
Quote from: Greenside on July 23, 2007, 08:42:42 AM
On the siren issue, I don't use it very often in my area. Seems like it brings out the nosey farmers wondering why a siren just sounded off down the road. It's happened too many times that soon after using one, out of the farm yard here comes a pickup and you have no choice other than to hang tight and wait to tell him what's up. Dennis
Thats exactly why I stopped using a siren too,,but when I did use a siren I never got a reply,,but when I went to the Locator sound on the FX 5 I got quite a few responces,,it may have been a coincidence,But I do NOT know enough about the Coyote to decide this on my own
Bob
BOB-Dennis, a siren or howling or just being out at three in the morning may get people curious and rightfully so.
Brent, whatever ya got to do to get it done. I believe why eastern coyotes are more difficult to call is not that they don't come it's just with the cover and terrain available you are unable to see when and where stuff happens.
I'll bet rarely you see coyotes running from a howl at a half mile away or more. Or see how timid and shy coyote react when they see a coyote like here. You really see this when you run decoy dogs. Over and over I see adult coyotes leave pups when a dog is around. Some don't but some do. Some come up on a ridge 400 yards out and watch, some run right thru you!
To work a coyote you see coming in from a mile away as he hangs up using distress. It may happen on occasion if the land lays right there but not like here in the open, but it is happening there.
Many times in that thick cover the eyes of the coyote are on a person long before he ever sees the coyote, if he ever sees the coyote. I've hunted them with the ecaller upwind in the timber and killed coyotes I would have never seen using hand calls. They tend to use their nose more than their eyes. Many times a caller never knows he was busted. Cornfields will do the same, some come charging out others sit three rows in peeking out and if anything is out of place or if you move thinking nothing is watching well your done. Much of the time it's just a head peeking out, especially if it is a return trip.
This country you call, are you the only one calling it? If you only hit each tract once or twice a year the importance of sounds is not what it would be if a person only had limited acres. But coyote vocalizations in Nov. wouldn't be my first choice but hey if it works for you.
I assume you start hunting in Nov.? If this is so the ones you bring in with pup distress, I guess are mostly adult coyotes ?Are you calling in many multiples?
I would again assume pup distress in Nov. heard by YOY coyotes after dispersal would be a negative there, it would be here unless the family group is still intact. Another fact I may learn by locating that time of year.
If a family group was in a drainage and come Nov. it sounded like the had dispersed I would expand the number of stands up and down the drainage because you new the group scattered out or just made that assumption because of the time of year.
C DR. I agree with you, howling done certain ways at certain times is deadly. At other times well not so good!
The pup distress craze, KIYI etc. is not always positive and sometimes down right one of the worst things a coyote wants to hear, sometimes, fall with YOY coyotes after dispersal one of the worst.
Randy
I agree with you totally on the KIYI craze. My thoughts are pretty much based on Bill
Austin's train of thought that a times of year most coyotes could care less about some coyote getting its ass kicked and are not real excited about getting their own kicked. It definitely does help with stopping one for a look,after the shot, when dealing with multiples but it might be a poor choice for a primary call.
Back to the siren issue or the howling attraction attention to you can be a factor in my area. I have a tendency to crowd farm yards and farm groves rather than crowd good cover for locating. Those barking farm dogs will run down the road to meet you and they aren't always friendly
Dennis
Dennis, LOL your posts make me smile and bring back some memories.
I tend to believe the commercialization and the Internet information highway along with the $ involved has swayed beliefs and methods. It's gotten to be not who or how but with what and where can I get one.
Your right on target with the statement that allot more Coyotes show than we see, that's allot of the problem here for sure. Not so much in the northern part of the state but here were I am, we spend allot of stands every year with a shotgun in tight cover. And the e-caller helps allot to we use it allot to try and position the coyotes were we want them or to give us the shot, but putting those down wind coyotes on film is a different story.
We don't get the chance here to see some of the things you get to see out there in the open for sure, but I have spent allot of time out west hunting with Rich Higgins and several other guys and have been lucky enough to get to hunt with decoy dogs and also seen some of the coyotes reactions, so I have had the chance to see allot of it out there. And we even hunt the thick cover with shotguns out west as well. So I got a good idea on what your talking about.
No, I'm not the only one calling here, but I hunt allot of private ground so some areas have no pressure from callers and some do. I haft to sort that out before season or before I start calling areas. But Bow hunters, coon hunters, small game hunts apply pressure to these coyotes as well. And we haft to take all that into consideration as well.
I start hunting hard here in Nov, but we get out some all threw the year, just depends. We call about as many multiple coyotes as we do singles. And we also get our fair share of yoy coyotes every year as well. Using the pup distress we get more adults than yoy coyotes, but we put several yoy coyotes on film last year that came into pup distress, wines and crys, and a couple to howling as well. Don't get me wrong, I change my calling to meet the different times of year, food source, and do what we need to do to change things up when needed. And I may not howl at the beg gins of a stand, it maybe at the end of the stand or in the middle, just depends on what info I have to deal with at that point and the time of the year.
I may run a 10-15 min stand with distress sounds, and if I am sure I am in a good area that is holding coyotes, I may extend the stand with howling, or pup distress. I may run that stand for 30 min or more total. Just depends on the circumstances.
QuoteIf a family group was in a drainage and come Nov. it sounded like the had dispersed I would expand the number of stands up and down the drainage because you new the group scattered out or just made that assumption because of the time of year.
I would do the same thing. We do that allot here. If I get the ground to make multiple stands in that area. If I don't then I haft to try and pull them to were I am and have access to. I don't have than option here in the east allot of the time, private farms that I can not hunt may break that drainage several times. This might also be a area that I may hit several times before I get the coyotes in the area I need them at the time I can call that spot. I would change my calling to meet my needs in a area like this.
Brent