hey guys, a little help please.
For those yote hunters that use the AR, I have a question.
What distance and P.O.I. do you sight in your rifles???
The .223 has one heck of an arch during flight. I have been noticing that when dead on at 100 yards, it is high at 50 yards.
with 55 grainers.
Just trying to see where you guys sight in your rifles to be effective at all shot ranges.
I already lost 1 coyote with the .223 after being shot twice. I don't want it to happen again.
Thanks
here is the remington shoot program I like to play with
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/remington_shoot_ballistics_software.asp (http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/remington_shoot_ballistics_software.asp)
I like using this ballistics chart for quick reference-
http://www.shootingtimes.com/ballistics/ (http://www.shootingtimes.com/ballistics/) - under centerfire choose .223(then click the go button to the right, and it will open up a page full of .223 rounds/makers/ types
On the RemShoot- after you apply ammo, set target and zero, shoot =) there is A calculate tab in upper left, open it and go down to graph trajectory. your cursor becomes A + and as you mouse over the blue line and the readout at the bottom will give you the bullet path and yards.
With all that out of the way :shrug: With A 200 zero (24"bl) you shouldn't get more than 2" high, and -2" is about 240yds. Of course with A 16" barrel your losing about 6-7% velocity(can't remember what the experts said)- so if your starting out @ 3200 you're down to about 2975 right off the top.
Sorry if this was choppy, trying to play with the program while I type this up! I went with A 24" 1/12 twist to shoot 40-45 grainers ~KT
ya I have a 16" barrel. thanks for the info, I will try it out.
One of the shoot programs lets you change power grains, bullets, and so on. Not sure which one though. I did have A sierra program, but not sure where it ran off to.
RemShoot also has A setting there for scope ht. , wind, and different stuff.
I prolly didn't help you very much, but maybe I'm baiting A real expert to come in here and explain! :roflmao: ~KT
Hey browning I have a DPMS sweet 16 its a real shooter wiith my hand loads, but I came to the conclusion that 200 yrds is max for that gun, short and sweet they dont have much more after that they start droppin fast.Oh and I do have it sighted in at 200.
I have a 16" and a 20". I have them both zeroed for 200 yards.
cb223
So does that put you around - 1/2" at 50 Yards ??? ( on the 20" Barrel) and just for S&G where does this compare to the 16" Barrel ???
Bob
I have a 16" AR zeroed at 100 yrds w/ a red dot. I've also zero'ed a 20" at 50 yrds. Not a whole lot of difference but I went with 100 in the end just because its what I normally do with my other rifles. The Sierra Reloading CD has a wealth of information on drop etc if you can get your hands on it.
Hornady.com has a ballistics calculator on it that might be helpful. Punch in your loads and print trajectory charts for anything. Happy hunting
http://www.handloads.com/calc/index.html
I've got a bushmaster with a 14.5in barrel (1 1/2in flash suppresor) and i use two different methods for zeroing depending on what range i may have an opportunity to shoot at. First, we have the factory style of zeroing. center your groups @25 yards and you will re-zero @300. Seems like this method will provide you with two extremes as far as range goes.
Then, we have my preffered method of AR/m4 zeroing. I center my groups @50 yards with the theory that i will be hunting in relatively thick terrain where i wont hav to pull off a shot at over 150yards (the field to my back :sneer:) . With this done, a 25, 50, or 100 yard shot will not have significant difference in its POI . However, to overcome the problem with pulling off tight shots through small shooting lanes outside or inside of the 50 yards; I practice and memorize 25,75,100,and 150. Hope it works 4 YOU!!! good hunting, let me know if you try this
Bushmaster
What Round do you use ??? a Factory round or do you Reload ??? and in either case,what Bullet are ya shootin ???
Bob
Hey there, I have mine sighted in at 100yds, it shoots about 3 inches high at 10 yds. But most of the shooting I do around here is under 150 - 200 yds, so that works out good for me. Aaron
OHIOBOB
To answer your question, i mainly shoot a remington 55gr hp. For the purpose of cost efficiency and they have proven accurate and devastating when well placed. I also use winchester supreme 55gr ballistic tips (on special occasions) These bullets are as vicious as i have seen for .223 as far as terminal ballistics and accuracy. The only problem with the ballistic tips is that with any remotely rapid fire, the projectile is commonly forced back into the casing upon feeding into the chamber. I think they were designed for bolt action rifles. But none the less, Accurate and VICIOUS.
I also just started experimenting with 55gr remington soft points. I'll keep you posted on their perfomance. :wo:
*All ammunition is factory
(can't afford to make my own)
Quote from: bushmaster on July 29, 2007, 11:05:34 PM
OHIOBOB
The only problem with the ballistic tips is that with any remotely rapid fire, the projectile is commonly forced back into the casing upon feeding into the chamber. I think they were designed for bolt action rifles. But none the less, Accurate and VICIOUS.
*All ammunition is factory
(can't afford to make my own)
Nate
I use V-Max in my AR-15 and I have NEVER had ANY Problem with any Ballistic Tipped Bullet and I hope I NEVER have a Problem with them :fingerx: especially since I MIGHT order 500 of the 50 Grn V-Max for My AR-15 and My youngest Sons 223
About the not affording to reload your own Rounds,,I just seen 2 Post's on another Board from Remington AND Winchester saying that ALL Remington Ammunition is going up by at LEAST 15% at the end of July or August and also that ALL Winchester Ammunition is going up at LEAST 15% By the END of September !!! so ya MIGHT want to "Roll your Own" Ammo here pretty soon,,Of course Reloading Components are ALSO going up in Price,,pretty soon ya wont be able to Shoot your Guns because of Ammo Prices :sad: ah Hell,,EVERYTHING is going up in cost and one of these days the SHIT WILL HIT THE FAN !!! I probably wont see it BUT My Grandkid will and he is Only 7 years old :sad3: BUT Until that day I will keep
"Throwing Copper" at the Predators and Crows :biggrin:
Bob
aaahhh hheeeelllllll :madd: This is unreal. i sure hope there's no problem with my AR :shck: Naaaa, there couldn't be. I bought something like five boxes of the win. supremes from this little old gun shop in Maine. I pray that i had a bad batch and thats all. Ya know, I always wanted to "roll my own" rounds. The owner of my club might have some equipment floatin' around. I really appreciate the heads up :thumb2: :thumb2:
So you shoot v-max through your AR? I don't know much about the rounds and was sceptical of the coating on the bullets. Would they have any negative effect on the chrome-lined barrel? Also, How do they work 4 you?
Nate
When you say Coating on the Bullet,,are you talking about the Moly Coat ??? I have NOT shot any Moly Coated V-Max through my AR-15,,BUT I have shot the 50 Grn Moly Coated V-Max through my Parker-Hale 22-250 and I have NOT ever had a Problem with them :biggrin: BUT I do have 100 Moly Coated V-Max in 55 Grns that I may have to load and shoot through my AR-15 :shrug: The Moly Coating does not Bother me,,everything I have shot the Moly Through and cleaned came very Clean,,BUT I prefer to have the Non-Moly Bullets,,thats just me though :biggrin:
Bob
Bob
Yeah thats what i was wonderin' about. I've heard some people at the gun club talk about the moly-coated rounds to be no good for chrome-lined barrels. Let me know when you shoot em through the old AR :wo:
Quote from: bushmaster on July 30, 2007, 12:55:31 PM
Bob
Yeah thats what i was wonderin' about. I've heard some people at the gun club talk about the moly-coated rounds to be no good for chrome-lined barrels. Let me know when you shoot em through the old AR :wo:
Nate
I sure will let ya know :eyebrow: I got the 55 Grn Moly Coated V-Max and a 1 Lb Can of Varget for Fathers day,,I THOUGHT about taking the V-Max back and trade them in for NON Moly Coated Bullets,,but then I figured,,ah Hell,I will just shoot them in the AR-15 and Just buy more 50 Grn NON Moly Coated V-Max for the other Rifles,,I am THINKING of Buying 500 or a 1000 of the 50 Grn V-Max,,and then getting 1000 FMJ's Strictly for the AR-15 on "FUN" Days :biggrin:
Now all I need is to get the Neighbors in Gear and let me know what kind of Powder and Primers they want :madd:
Bob
P.S. Browning204,,did you ever sight your AR-15 in with ALL this Advice ??? :laf: and do you have access to a Chronograph ??? I have one BUT I haven't shot any of my NEW LOADS through it yet :doh2: I need to get my ass in Gear !!!
alright, can anyone tell me where to find a 300 whisper upper for my m4? I have been searching high and low and i'm itchin to get one. please help. :bowingsmilie:
The 223 actualy shoots pretty flat, but in the AR platform if the scope is mounted at the right height for proper cheek weld (3-3.5" above bore center to center) then when sighted in at 100 yds, The bullet raises 3-3.5" in 100 yds so its 1/2 of that low at 50, here is a drop chart I worked up for my 24" RRA
AR 15 223 drop chart 4/20/05
R tr c/ups w/5mp c/ups
100 1.64 MOA MOA
125 2.28 .9
150 2.61 1.4
175 2.62 1.9
200 2.27 2.5
225 1.56 3.3
250 .45 4.1
275 -1.10 .5 5.1 1.75
300 -3.13 1 6.1 2.0
325 -5.66 1.66 7.3 2.1
350 -8.76 2.4 8.7 2.25
375 -12.44 3.2 10.1 2.5
400 -16.76 4.3 11.8 2.75
425 -21.80 4.9 13.5 3
450 -27.62 5.5 15.2 3.2
475 -34.26 6.5 17.6 3.5
500 -41.79 8 19.8 3.75
525 -50.31 8.5 22.3 4.0
550 -59.85 10. 24.9 4.3
575 -70.57 11 27.8 4.6
600 -82.57 12. 30.8 4.9
RR
I have been in the military for 16 years, we sight the M-16 in at 25yds with a 55 grain full metal jacket bullet. Sighted in at 25 yards it will hit the same spot at 300 yards. It does rise between the 25 yd and the 300 yard mark.
A little help on the Chart ??? so you are saying that if your gun shoots .75" LOW at 50 yards it will be 1.6" high at 100 yards and then .45" High at 250 Yards ??? where did you get the info for this ??? did you use one of those Trajectory programs on Powder/Bullet makers Websites and if so,,which one ???
Thank you very much
Bob
thats close bob, but what I do is find the window where most of my shots occur, with this rifle its 150-350 yds. so my zero ended up to be "dead on" at 258 yds, I used a caliper to make an "X" exactly 1.64" above the POA, then zero'd at 100, I then shot at 200,300, and 400 yds and compared my actual drops to the chart that I printed from a program called "Load from a disc for windows" my actuasl drops were a bit different from what the chart said so I changed the bullets BC in the program till my actual drops matched the chart, this established my actual BC shooting here under my conditions, yours may vary depending on when and where you shoot. I do this with all my rifles and it makes hits relatively easy to 700 yds if the wind co-operates. lots of good ballistic programs on the net look up JBM's web page, they have a nice one that enables you to print your own charts.
RR
PS that chart is for a 55 gr sp with a BC of .241 at 3200 fps, scope height is 3.5" above center of bore, using this info on this chart I have killed chucks (2) at a lazer ranged 550 yds and 1 very near miss at 600 (1" over its head)
Good Deal Ridge Runner,,did you BUY this Program or did you get it from a site on the Internet ??? I need to get my Chronograph out and check my NEW Loads ,I am sleeping on the Job :sleep:
Bob
I bought the load from a disc for windows, but lots of free ballistic programs on the net, JBM is good as is "point blank" and its a downloadable free program
RR
Ridge Runner
Thanks for all the info,,do you have a link ??? or can I just "GOOGLE" it ???
Thank You very much
Bob
here is a link to JBM's trajectory calculator http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/calculations/traj/traj.html , send me a blank email to james720603@HardyNet.com and I'll send ya a zip file of point blank to install on your computer. Now when I deer hunt with long range stuff I have a PDA with exbal loaded on it it gives me info to take shots to 800 yds and beyond, its all simple math to 700, then the bar pressure starts taking a toll on the numbers so you have to have a way to figure in current atmospheric conditions, bar pressure, altitude, tempature, humidity being the main ones with bar pressure being the most important (bar pressure changes with altitude, and will actualy change the bullets BC. (http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h274/wv_Ridge_Runner/100_0279.jpg)
This rifle is more than capable to 1500 yds but I'm not, my range for game animals is limited to 900 yds
RR
Ridge Runner
What Caliber is the Rifle in the Pic ??? sounds like it is a pretty good Program to have on yor Computer :biggrin:
Thank You Very Much
Bob
Its called a 7mm Allen magnum, developed by kirby allen of APS of fort shaw montana, basicly its a 7mm dia based on a 338 lapua mag. improved, H2o case capacity is 122 gr, it'll send a .284 nosler accubond downrange at 3700 fps MV. I shoot a load that consists of 110 gr of WC872 (mil surp powder designed for the 20mm vulcan cannon, and its 5 bucks a pound) with an average accuray of less than 3/8's MOA
A typical 100 yrd group from it
(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h274/wv_Ridge_Runner/fireformgroup7mmAM.jpg)
here's a preliminary group, fired after adjusting per drop chart, from a 100 yard zero, group was fired from 660 yds, only 2 shots but for hunting purposes its an outstanding group (measures 1 7/8's) I've since tweaked the BC and increased the standard zero to 300 yds to get cold bore 1rst shot closer to POA
(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h274/wv_Ridge_Runner/7mmAM660yd.jpg)
RR
BTW the doe in the pic was shot at 532 yds
532 Yds :shck: that is a bit farther then my Muzzleloader will reach !!! in what State was the deer Shot ???
That is some GOOD SHOOTIN for sure
Thank you very much
Bob
west virginia
RR
SO I guess I want to start at. Is it true that the 1/9 twist likes heavier bullets?
When our 3-4 feet of snow melts and I can get on the range, I want to really get this AR sighted in well. I have been shooting 55 grain factory loads. I have a box of 60 (i think) from black hills I will try also.
thanks
Quote from: browning204 on February 11, 2008, 07:04:58 PM
SO I guess I want to start at. Is it true that the 1/9 twist likes heavier bullets?
Here's one man's opinion......
Click Here (http://www.triplebreakproducts.com/FAQ/twist_rate_for_barrel.htm)
The reason the AR's shoot high up close is because of the scope heighth, the scope on a normal flattop, if set the right height for a good cheekweld is about 3.5" c to c scope to bore, here is how I sight mine in, and just hold for a heart shot inside of 200 yards
AR 15 223 drop chart 4/20/05
R tr c/ups w/5mp c/ups
100 1.64 MOA MOA
125 2.28 .9
150 2.61 1.4
175 2.62 1.9
200 2.27 2.5
225 1.56 3.3
250 .45 4.1
275 -1.10 .5 5.1 1.75
300 -3.13 1 6.1 2.0
325 -5.66 1.66 7.3 2.1
350 -8.76 2.4 8.7 2.25
375 -12.44 3.2 10.1 2.5
400 -16.76 4.3 11.8 2.75
425 -21.80 4.9 13.5 3
450 -27.62 5.5 15.2 3.2
475 -34.26 6.5 17.6 3.5
500 -41.79 8 19.8 3.75
525 -50.31 8.5 22.3 4.0
550 -59.85 10. 24.9 4.3
575 -70.57 11 27.8 4.6
600 -82.57 12. 30.8 4.9
Lots of folks don't like a scope setting high, but that 3" of scope height amounts to 15" of trajectory that you don't have to worry with at 500 yards. This chart is generated shooting an 8 twist 24" RRA using ultramax 55gr sp reman ammo.
RR
edited to add this pic, this 3 shot group which was fired from an 8 twist, 223 wylde chambered AR, measures around .26", according to some an 8 twist won't shoot 55 gr very well, and the long leade of the 223 wylde chamber hurts accuracy, this was cheap re-man ultramax. I've also found from experience that the faster spin on the bullet helps expansion so I get better terminal performance at longer ranges.
(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h274/wv_Ridge_Runner/RRA1-8223wylde.jpg)