I seldom get excited about a new cartridge, but I'm definitely supercharged about this new project. I like the idea of shooting a 70 grain 6MM bullet from an AR at the same speed as the 223 can shoot a 50 grain bullet. With the bonus of everything being match grade, and everything is form the AR 15 platform. The capacity of the case is ideal for the bullets and the velocity needed for extreme accuracy. The 6 WOA uses a 6.8 bolt which is made by several manufacturers and a standard bolt carrier.
This project actually started several months ago, at that time I was looking hard at the 6 AR. I just couldn't warm up to the case and bolt head design. So I put it on the back burner. I had taken a brief look at the 6.8 necked down to 6 mm and had even called Dave at Pacific tool about it. That also went to the back burner. The 6X45 is too small and the 243 Win is too big for extreme accuracy. I was looking for something that would be a no hassle cartridge for an AR varmint rifle.
Recently I talked to WOA about their design. I liked what I heard and decided to build a rifle for the 6MM WOA cartridge. There are more than one magazine manufacturer making a quality 6.8 magazine. Both Hornady and Silver State are making very good brass for the 6.8. So, everything is in place for a new and exciting cartridge to hit the streets.
This rifle will have 2 uppers, both will start at 26", for velocity testing and then be cut to 24" then 22". We will use a 1-14 Shilen select match barrel for the lighter bullets, and a 1-8 Shilen select match barrel for the heavier bullets. So far, I have both barrels in hand as well as brass and dies, all the AR parts to build this project.
Although I like to use RRA parts when I can, this project will be built on a Stag lower and Stag M4 uppers, because RRA doesn't make a M4 style EOP, which was my first choice. The M4 slots in Stag uppers are cut before the hard anodizing coating is applied so as to not expose the bare softer aluminum, and the 6 WOA needs these cuts.
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Dan that is awesome :highclap: keep us informed of your testing. I just bought a new camera so have to put a new upper back a few months. BUT I will be getting one of these before the end of the season. Everything I have seen and read so far tells me it is a winner.
that looks really nice. Keep us posted.
Dan what do you think would be the shortest barrel length and still get good velocity ? I really don't wont an AR longer than 18 inches. If I had to go 20 or more inches I don't think I would like it.
With current data you can get 2900 FPS with a 75 grain V-Max in a 16" barrel. I don't have a lot of data for 18" barrels and could only guess what the velocity would be with lighter bullets. I'm currently working with 68 grain Barts ultras, just for accuracy testing. I have some groups in the very low 2's and a couple in the upper 1's. These loads are running at 3450 FPS with Benchmark powder (26"BBL). This rifle/load combo is shooting very well. Because this case uses fast burning rifle powder barrel length is less critical than let's say a 243.
Sounds like a REAL WINNER ya have there,,how long before someone can get this set up ??? are we talking 1-2 years ?
Bob
The cartridge reloading dies are available now, as is the brass. I am building the rifles now. Lead time is about 4-5 weeks.
What is the case for the 6mm WOA?
Why is it that some people seem to dance all around the 6mm - 250 verisons? :confused: If I was a money person I'd have one & maybe a 6.5/250 AI. Now that I have my 25WSSM (that you don't seem to care for) I am quite happy & getting happier each time I shoot it. :innocentwhistle:
The WOA is made from Remington 6.8 SPC cases, these are also made by Hornady and Silver State.
The reason AR 15 builders are not building the 6-250 is the bolt face for that case head is not available from a quality manufacturer. And /or that size case will need a slightly bigger AR 15 upper receiver which is also not available from a quality manufacturer. It could be built using the DPMS LR series receiver. The WSSM line of cartridges has a very limited line of firearms made to use them. They are by all standards, a line of cartridges that will, go the way of the Remington SAUM line. Currently, only Browning and Olympic Arms are chambering WSSM calibers. Winchester is the only manufacturer now making WSSM brass and I heard from a very reliable source it is now a "seasonal", which means it will be made one time a year as long as there is a demand. I believe everyone has a favorite cartridge, the 25 WSSM is not mine. I have a 25-06, 257 WSM and a 257 STW, all in bolt guns. I have AR 15's in 17's, 20's, 223's, 6X45 and now a new 6mm WOA. all of them will shoot 1/2" or better on a regular basis. All of them are my favorites.
Dan
I have a Question for ya,, I have ALWAYS LOVED the 25-06 Cartridge,,I love the thought of a 25 Caliber bullet coming out of a 3-06 Case Sooooo I am thinking of getting an Upper Made for my Bushmaster in 25 WSSM because of the 25 Caliber Bullet moving pretty fast :eyebrow: SO IF I get this upper made should I buy 500-1000 Pieces of Brass with it because they will be obsolete in a year or so ??? AND can you recommend a Caliber on the AR-15 Platform that will come close to the 25-06 Ballistics ??? I REALLY LIKE the Ballistics of the 6mm06 BUT I am not going to pay someone
$1800 to build me a Custom Bolt gun,,for that Much Money I will create my own Wildcat,,something along the lines of a
.50-155,,A 155 mm Howitzer necked DOWN to a .50 Caliber Bullet :laf: GOD that would be fast,,it MIGHT burn up upon reentry of the atmosphere BUT it would be fast !!! :laf:
But in all seriousness,, I would love to have an AR-15 shooting like a 25-06,,any suggestions :confused: :shrug:
Thank you
Bob
If I wanted a fast, accurate 25 caliber gas gun, I would start with a DPMS LR lower and upper receivers. Use a Shilen 1-10 twist SS barrel chambered in 25 -284, and cases made from Norma 6.5X284 brass. DPMS magazines are problem free and long enough to make use of the capacity of the 284 case. The cost would be in the mid $1500.00 for a complete rifle.
Your only option for a factory AR 15 in 25 caliber is an Olympic Arms WSSM upper. No other manufacturer has shown any interest in making a WSSM rifle. I sell Oly WSSM uppers for $585.00 plus shipping
Quote from: Dan Carey on July 15, 2007, 02:49:50 PMThe WSSM line of cartridges has a very limited line of firearms made to use them. They are by all standards, a line of cartridges that will, go the way of the Remington SAUM line. Currently, only Browning and Olympic Arms are chambering WSSM calibers. Winchester is the only manufacturer now making WSSM brass and I heard from a very reliable source it is now a "seasonal", which means it will be made one time a year as long as there is a demand.
:sad: Well, this is very well my fault. Ya see when I buy something & I really like it the manufacturer discontinues it. :sad3: From Chocolate peanutbutter, Wrangler jeans, Suave shampoo, & now the 25WSSM. :rolleye: Dadgumit, I never thought of this, but I'm probably the reason the 222Rem lost all it's former glory. :doh2: Man, I love that round! :bowingsmilie:
SO What I am reading then is IF I buy a 25 WSSM Upper for my AR-15 then I better Buy a BOAT LOAD of Brass for it at the same time then ??? Hell I THOUGHT the Manufacturers sold a Ton of the WSSM Calibers ??? Damn does anyone have an AR-15 Upper in 22-250 they want to sell ? :biggrin: I KNOW the 22-250 is NEVER going to be an "EXTINCT" Caliber!
Vv,,did you happen to like a YUGO car a few years back ? or the AMC Pacer ? :laf: :laf: James,,did you Buy a LOT of Brass for your 25 WSSM ? and Is the Price of the 25 WSSM Brass going up in Price ???
Bob
I think this caliber will shoot pretty good groups with a little load development.
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And the new rifle that shot the target, 26" barrel.
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Sorry if i posted this in the wrong place (FNG) but does anyone know about the .300 whisper used by the crow creek production guys. I heard that about the video of the coyote shot at 14 yards with the AR. Just curious :wo:s
Rich
Can ya help the FNG out :laf: CCP is the MAIN MAN to talk to on this subject :laf:
Bob
Be glad to help. We can start a new topic 300 whisper to keep from taking away from this one. Plus it will keep that info from being hid in here.
I have built more than a couple 300 Whispers.
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Sweet Dan looks like we may do business somewhere down the road. :yoyo: :yoyo:
Dan OR Rich
What Cartridge is that,,,that you Necked up for a .30 Caliber Bullet ??? and I am Guessing that the Bullet is Traveling
Sub - Sonic ??? and this in Turn keeps the Noise Down ??? am I even CLOSE ??? and is the AR-15 in the Pic,Chambered in the .300 Whisper ??? and if so,how many Rounds does the Magazine Hold ???
Thank You Very Much
Bob
Rich
Did you happen to start the 300 whisper topic?
Dan
Can you fit an upper receiver for an AR? If so, how much? I'm very interested :eyebrow:
The 300 Whister is also known as a 300X221 Remington, as the name implys its made by expanding the .224 neck to .308
A 30 round AR mag will hold 29 rounds, a 10 round mag will hold 10 rounds.
300 whisper uppers using Shilen 1-8 twist stainless barrels run in the mid $7's depending on options.
Is the round subsonic? And where would i come across the ammo?
I just started a new job. i may be able to pick up the upper in the winter.
Quote from: bushmaster on July 31, 2007, 02:35:07 AM
Is the round subsonic? And where would i come across the ammo?
Yes it can be subsonic using 220 grain bullets. CorBon was making subsonic ammo last I heard. Its a reloaders cartridge.