I found this to be a very interesting read. THO, does this remind you of any calls you have ever seen? :wo:
http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=52649466&an=0&page=0&gonew=1#UNREAD
Edited to say Screw this. I do not need the BS or the snide remarks.
If there is something you want to say, do it man to man.
AL
FWIW - I don't recall ever making one that wasn't tapered.
Why didnt ya say something to him when ya seen it, alpenliter?
Instead you praised him on it, which I agree it does look good, but you got me confused. :confused:
This has nothing to do with the post by Alpenliter. I appreciate his bringing it up. This has to do with the reply to my post to him which basically said Brandon has made a few calls in this style over the last few weeks. It's not a big deal to me. if I have had an impact on his call making, then it benefits us all as he is a talented call maker. I made a comment about the tapered mouth piece and wondered why it hasn't caught on until now, and I got a smart alek remark from Pilgrim about it.
I don't need this. It is childish. Drive by post are just plain silly and serve no purpose but to piss people off.
If that was his intent, it worked perfectly. I'm pissed off.
I've helped every call maker that ever asked me, including Pilgrim when he was first getting started. If he, or anyone else has something to say, call me. Say it to my face. Man up or back off. I am through playing games. Here it is again I'll be home all night.
And whoever Coyotemaster1 is, you know what you pulled this weekend, and I know you think it's funny. Payback is a medovac.
Al
I really don't know about every thing going on but I do hope it stops right here. :argh:
To me, you (THO) have always been a stand up guy, A-1 in my book. :highclap:
Now.... when I saw this line I had to go back and reread it, twice! :doh2:
QuoteAnd whoever Coyotemaster1 is, you know what you pulled this weekend, and I know you think it's funny. Payback is a medovac.
Coyotemaster1??? Not to be confused :confused: with
coyotehunter_1 :rolleye:
I shore don't want you coming down here to Tennessee looking for my ASS !!! :laf: :laf: :laf:
Good grief, Al! Talk about over-reacting. Didn't mean to ruffle yer feathers there bud.
Wow, I sure apologize about posting this. I saw the call, and yea, commented on it, as it was well done. I posted here because of the comments that came later in the thread. I now wish I had never done so. I have so much respect for Al, and was in contact with him today. Ordered a number of supplies. I guess I will refrain from posting in the future so it doesn't make someone upset. My sincere apologies to you Al. Sure didn't want to upset you. Too much respect for you to do that.
There was nothing wrong with your post. If it would have been left alone, and a smart ass remark had not been made, you would have read my original reply. I have no problem with your post, or with another call maker being influenced by my work.
I do have a problem with people who do drive by post just to stir up trouble and then, even after I post my phone number aren't man enough to pick up the phone and call me and tell what they think to my face.
This is the second time. These one line cheap shots need to be kept over on the Midwest Predtaor board.
My number was posted until 11 PM eastern time with no takers. If you can;t say it to my face, take it off the board. Anyone can type. That certainly doesn't mek you a man.
Al
alpenliter, maybe if you would posted why you thought it was an interesting read, the post might have taken a different direction. Not sure if it would, but you would have been better understood if ya would have done so.
I like that call for sure, and while it may
appear to have some THO features its different enough, well to be different. You can only invent the wheel so many ways. :wink:
As far as Al goes, he's a pioneer of the hobby, and when your a pioneer, folks follow. :shrug: I'm not sure that's the case with Brandon's call. Al is a big influence on the hobby whether you want to admit it or not, and has had an extreme impact for which all parties have benefited from. Folks look up to Al for advice and try to emulate some of his calls, and some of you guys look to his calls for ideas and influence. A win-win situation. Always pushing the envelope....... :biggrin:
I'm sure Al has been influenced by others, before he settled on his own stuff. But at any rate he's always raising the bar and keeps no secrets about his stuff....................just ask.
Unless someone is copying your call to a "T", its all part of the hobby. The proper thing to do, if you do copy or are influenced by, is request an "ok" more out of common courtesy or give credit, and most of you all do.
Now Brandon on the other hand, has elevated his call spinning as of late and that's apparent by his pictures. I do know he is always open to talking and ideas, and is seeking perty darn hard to learn what he can and excel, and I applaud him for that. If ya think he wronged some where, post reply to that post or PM for clarification. This is not directed at you Al, because I don't even know if you have a problem with that call.
I'm all for calling out or asking folks the direct questions, and Alpentliter you do send a strange vibe by posting there its a...
QuoteA very fine piece of work. Absolutely beautiful. I love the lines of the call snd the colors work wonderfully together. Great work.
And then coming here and posting what appears to be a baited hook? :wo: If I'm wrong please correct me.
QuoteIf I'm wrong please correct me.
You're wrong. You have no idea what is going on.
You now stand corrected.
QuoteThere was nothing wrong with your post. If it would have been left alone, and a smart ass remark had not been made, you would have read my original reply. I have no problem with your post, or with another call maker being influenced by my work.
I do have a problem with people who do drive by post just to stir up trouble and then, even after I post my phone number aren't man enough to pick up the phone and call me and tell what they think to my face.
This is the second time. These one line cheap shots need to be kept over on the Midwest Predtaor board.
My number was posted until 11 PM eastern time with no takers. If you can;t say it to my face, take it off the board. Anyone can type. That certainly doesn't mek you a man.
Al
Al, I'm not sure if you are referring to me with this or not. If not, please disregard because I have misunderstood. If so, man you are way off base and it seems you have a burr in your saddle blanket concerning me for some reason - And I honestly don't know why. My post was intended as a "wink, wink, nudge, nudge" type of thing. You stated that you've been making calls with an inside-tapered moutpiece from the start and that you are surprised that others are just now catching on. I stated "FWIW - I don't recall ever making one that wasn't tapered." I stated a simple fact. You were the biggest influence on me getting started making calls - And you know it - I've told you that. Implication of my statement: I didn't just now catch on - As in, you influenced me on this from early on.
Now, if that is still offensive to you and and still seems to be a "drive-by" smart-aleck-like post, then I certainly don't know what else to say.
Edited to add: Once again here, I'm not sure if it was - But if the "Midwest Predator" comment was for me - I haven't been a part of that site since last Feb or March.
QuoteYou're wrong. You have no idea what is going on.
I guess not, my assumption is just made with the info at hand. :shrug:
QuoteYou now stand corrected.
Actually, I don't. You just pointed out the fact I was wrong, but didn't correct my misunderstanding of the events. :confused:
Sorry for butting in to your conversation fellers.
I'll spell it out for youi.
1) Braz - Alepenliter showed a little loyalty. He wasn't baiting anyone. The man has some class and saw something he thought might be of interest to me based on what has happened in the past. I commend him for that.
2) I said, and I STAND BY WHAT I SAID
Brandon made a nice looking call. It appears to be very well done. If my past or presant calls have had an influence on his call making then I am proud of that fact. If someone takes something I have done, or am doing and improves upon it, then WE ALL BENEFIT.
I then said
I have been tapering the mouth pieces of my calls for over 5 years now. I am surprised it is just now catching on.
To which the reply from Pilgrim was
FWIW - I don't recall ever making one that wasn't tapered.
It was a cheap shot. If he has been doing it, I am not aware of it as I have never seen a picture of the inside of a barrel or the mouth piece of one of his calls. Never. If he has been doing it, then there are perhaps 2 of us that have been doing it for awhile now. There are now 4 or 5 call makers doing this.
So since it has been shown that I have no clue what I am talking about, screw it, I'll take my business and my calls elsewhere. Old Braz trys to show a little loyalty and gets slammed around for it. Pure BS.
This thread would have had a happy out come if the Midwest Predator Boys had just stayed over on thier own board instead of coming over here to start shit.
There's your explanation.
And no Chet, I was not talking about you. A few of the boys on PM decided they would have a good time and bid a couple of my calls up on E bay and then once the auction was won, just disapear never to be seen again. One not a registered user anymore, and one just not responding to anything, including invoices, e mails, messages, nothing.
I'm to the point right now that I am tempted to just close down the web sites and give it up and go hunting. This is total BS.
AL
Al I'll tell ya whats BS and that's the fact you circle the wagons and point out the black choppers way more then ya need too.
Your definition of loyalty and mine are two different things, because the folks that are loyal to ya are the ones ya keep shooting in the foot, to include me.
If Alpenliter was being loyal he would have posted "Its a nice call with a THO flare or look to it" A subtle way of pointing out that fact, but he didn't. Praised the call then chummed the waters over hear.
Pilgrim gives ya credit for you being the influence for him doing it that way, because when he first started that's how you were doing it, and guess what.............................couple of three round burst down range at Patrick.
I'm as about as loyal to you then anyone out there, but what I am not is the guy that........
........agrees with you all the time, just to agree with you when, I disagree.
........I'm not the guy that strokes ya when you feel you needed stroked.
QuoteSo since it has been shown that I have no clue what I am talking about, screw it, I'll take my business and my calls elsewhere. Old Braz trys to show a little loyalty and gets slammed around for it. Pure BS.
I have seen no one here even elude to this. I see you with a burr, as pointed out and probably it started before this post, and we are the fortunate benefactors of it, and the whole "I'm take'n my ball and going home", what the hecks that all about?
I think you for what ya have done for the hobby, and hate to see ya go anywhere, but I'm not here to bow at your feet or stoke your ego.
If you ever reevaluate that loyalty stance you let me know, because in terms you understand........ Its my kind of loyalty you covet in a combat situation, because I'm the guy you want watching your back when the bullets fly. Not some one whom post one thing and means another. Good luck.
Interesting what you said about Braz over on PM.
I read your post over there too.
If your refering to me Al please present your case, as I honestly have no clue to what you mention.
I'm through with this Todd. It's over. I am at my limit and my BS meter is pegged hard to the right and deep in the red.
The problem with these boards is that people post stuff, and then come back and say" I didn't mean it that way "
I post what I mean. No hidden agenda's and no hidden meanings. That constantly gets me in trouble. So I give up.
In the real world, you can look a man in the eye, and shake his hand and know right up front what you are dealing with. Here, all you have to go on are words, and I don't mince words. In the real world I'll look you dead in the eye and tell you how I feel, and if you give me that limp wrist dead fish hand shake, your're likly to walk away with a broken hand. But there wont be any doubt in your mind where I am coming from. I'm the same on these boards. I tell it like I see it, and this is how I see it. My days of mentoring call makers are over. 99% of the time it just comes back to haunt me in the end. No one held my hand and walked me through the call making process. I learned it on my own. When I wanted to make open reed calls I taught myself to make tone boards. What finish do I use - I tell ya. How do I do this or that - I tell ya. Doesn't matter. If someone asked - I told them. And what has it gotten me? 90% of the time not even a thank you, and more often than not, a kick in the ass.
You said "If Alpenliter was being loyal he would have posted "Its a nice call with a THO flare or look to it" A subtle way of pointing out that fact, but he didn't"
yet in the thread on PM what did YOU say?
"Brandon,
I really like the style, shape, and how ya did the mouth piece. From what I see in the pictures, its a really nice call. Matter fact if'n ya don't mind I would like one just like it.
That would also be nice signature call for ya, and what I mean by that is a call anyone can look at say "Hey thats one of Brandons calls" Its very nicely done and classy. "
Now honestly I don't care what you said. But you brought up what Braz could have said - and I'll say you could have said the same thing. But you didn't.
I said it was a nice call too. I said if my past or presant work had an impact on what he was doing, it made me proud. I said he was a talented call maker. What more do you want me to do? Run over there and kiss his ass too?
But here is the rub.
Everyone over there is lauding that "dimpled" mouth piece. You included.
I said, I have been tapering the mouth pieces of my calls since day one. YOU EVEN REMARKED ONCE THAT I WAS THE ONLY CALL MAKER DOING THAT AND IT MADE FOR A VERY EASY BLOWING CALL. Hell, even Tebbe knows that as he has more than one of my calls, and they mostly all have a tapered mouth piece. One or two of the old Pocket Calls and a couple of acrylic closed reeds I made for a while didn't, but every other one I have made has.
I said I had been doing that for at least 5 years and I was surprised that it was just now catching on.
If Pilgrim wanted to say that he had been doing that way since he started because of my influence on him, he could have said that. But he didn't.
He said
FWIW - I don't remember ever making one that wasn't tapered.
Made me feel like an idiot. Made it look to the world like I was full of crap.
Then he comes back and says he said it with a "wink wink nudge nudge" and assumes I was able to read the meaning in his post and know what he meant.
Bull. Say what you mean and mean what you say. I don't play games. I don't hold back and I don't make snide remarks that can be taken two ways and then come back and say "oh I meant it the other way". Ask PossumAl.
I posted my home telephone number for anyone to call me last night and talk about this. The only person who called was Jerry Latta. No one else. That tells me a lot about what was meant by the post and what is being said now.
So to my fellow call makers - start making wood chips. Start trying things and keep at it until you find what works on your own. Don't PM me, Don't email me, Dont call me on the phone. The tutorials on my site are gone, and will not be put back up. The Custom Predator Calls web site is gone. I don't care anymore. I have tried to help everyone of you and for it, 99% of the time I get stuff just like this. It just isn't worth it anymore.
The shop is closed.
Al
Al,
I probably should let this alone, but it ain't right saying 90-99% of these guys screwed you in some way. They are your friends, they are my friends and it just ain't right.
I have always and will always wish you the best, wish you peace, wish you happiness...... and I will always respect your right to plot your own course. I think your wrong here and I don't understand what really underpins all this. There is more to this than a couple of thread posts. Take care. You have friends here even if [at the moment] you think you don't.
how sad :shrug: Al I for one thought you as and still think that way one of the greatest influences to call making. I have looked to your words of wisdom many times over the last yr or so .... The only reason I didn't give ya a ring last night is because what happened here wasn't anything ta do with me I truely hope your not serious about keeping the shop closed your craftsmanship will be greatly missed by many people all over the US ...... So take a break go hunting do whatever but don't let a few words come between you and your passion to make calls :wink:
Ed
I agree, take a break Al...but no need to shut us out. Sounds like the whole thing was a big misunderstanding anyway. I can't see throwing out everything you've earned with a lot of these guys. :wink:
I give up.
Quote from: FinsnFur on October 30, 2007, 06:02:03 PMI can't see throwing out everything you've earned
That's right. And what you've earned is
respect!
QuoteYou said "If Alpenliter was being loyal he would have posted "Its a nice call with a THO flare or look to it" A subtle way of pointing out that fact, but he didn't"
yet in the thread on PM what did YOU say?
QuoteNow honestly I don't care what you said. But you brought up what Braz could have said - and I'll say you could have said the same thing. But you didn't.
Al,
I meant exactly what I said in that post, and didn't need to add anything. What I didn't do was post there and then come here on what appears to be a fishing expedition. :shrug:
Al ya have had a big influence on the hobby and unless someone copies your "Classic" or "bonker" to a "T", I honestly and really don't pay attention to the little stuff anymore, I just come to expect it.
QuoteWhat more do you want me to do? Run over there and kiss his ass too?
No, I don't, but quit expecting everyone to kiss yours. You offer allot of help and guidance, and claim to do it for all the right reasons, but as soon as your not being recognized or getting credit, its the wow is me attitude, and all of a sudden all your closest friends and supporters are camping out on enemy grounds. :argh: If you would just let your work and good deeds speak for them selves, and truly be happy some one is copying or emulating you...................you'll be a much happier man, and have better long term returns so to speak, instead of the instant gratification that is short lived like a sugar high.
QuoteEveryone over there is lauding that "dimpled" mouth piece. You included.
While the dimple is a nice touch, it was the furthest thing from my mind when I posted the words "mouth piece". What I meant by the mouth piece was the entire piece of ebony used as a whole, more emphasis on the bottom part just before the laminate. I usually I refer to them as mouth piece or stopper as a whole, and I apologize if my terminology isn't correct.
Heck I'm surprised call makers aren't fighting over the wood combos and how they are used yet. "Hey, my call had an ebony stopper, and a coco body. You got that idea from me!" :rolleye:
Sometimes you call spinners are your own worst enemies. :mad3:
At any rate, good luck Al.
I honestly don't know what just went down, but I feel as if it is one of the most depressing days I've had in a long time. And I am hoping that it isn't happening. Al, you have been one of the most inspirational folks that I have ever been privileged to have known, and hope to meet you one day to personally give you a thank you and a handshake for all that you have done for me. The most honorable of men enjoy watching others around them succeed and feel a sense of internal pride when they see their pupils enjoy what they can accomplish. And Al, you are at the top of this list. You give everything you have and it shows, and it is very evident that you really enjoy watching your work inspire all of those around you. You have always set the bar in this craft, and pretty much turned it into art. You are an inspiration to me and there are quite a lot of other folks that look up to you. I don't think that begging and pleading will do any good right now, as the only thing that we all need is a little time to relax. I would hope that you would reconsider, take some time off if needed, and come back when you are ready. It takes one heck of a guy to have a monumental impact on a craft and it would be a shame if you left like this. You will be dearly missed as a call maker and as a friend to all of us if you chose to leave. Many thank you's would not even begin to cover what you have done for us all, but I would like to say THANKS again for the help you have given me.
Brian
Damn..................some of ya'ns need to get out and do more hunting rather than pissin and moanin on the damn computer.
Is this "The guiding light" or "As the world turns". :iroll:
Go KILL something.
Well........got no dog in this fight but,I whole heartedly agree with Al. Some of you people are worse than a bunch of grade school girls,running from one forum to another trying to stir shit up.If you are that miserable and think you need to suck up to everybody and have nothing better to do than I feel sorry for you,some of you just need to mind your own business and leave folks alone.
This will probably hurt someone's feelings but,if you don't Feed me,F*ck me,or pay my bills I don't care !
GET A LIFE !!!!!!!!
:laf: It actually dont have anything to do with anyone going to another board and stirring anything Stray. :confused:
It is funny to me, AL, that you used to bust Krusty's chops time after time for whining about this and that on PM. It looks to me that you are now wearing Krusty's clown shoes. You moan and complain at the drop of a hat and take everything as a slight towards you. There were hundreds and thousands of call maker's before you and there will be hundreds and thousands after you. The call making sun does not rise and set in the house of Woodard as you and some like to think. Good calls I supose but a shitty attitude for sure.
If someone, or something, at Midwest Predator Hunters is bothering you Al... you can bring that to me personally.
Over the years I've found when dealing with TheHuntedOne there are typically three types of post you can expect.
1) "I'm leaving... convince me to stay" :noway:
2) "I'm pissed... tell me I'm great" :bowingsmilie:
3) "Edited by THO" :doh2:
In reading three recent threads on this board I've found half a dozen "Edited by THO" :doh2: posts which are otherwise blank. This tells me you've got some egg on your face again Al and I expect you to be fairly agitative in search of a scapegoat. I'm not overly concerned, as you've had a beef with me since roughly 2001, but when you elude to my forums as an excuse for your lack of personality I have to interviene. We're not a "call makers forum" so most of our members & mods don't even know who you are... it's a mere coincidence that you've been fuming mad at 50% of the internet community at one point or another and SOME of those folks visit Midwest Predator Hunters.
Let the conspiracies go Al, you're not on half the radars you wish to be. But I must warn you, now that you're hunting with a Wildlife Technologies you will have all sorts of enemies and skeptics! LOL! :)
PS: Don't take this the wrong way.... whatever that may be.
To all you ass-wipes that are piling on Al, I will bet good money your mouth would be a lot more respectful if you were standing in front of him instead of hiding behind a keyboard.
This thread makes me sick. It needs to be locked.
Semp
Semp, odds are you are wrong! What would keep me or anyone else from calling someone an asshole to their face? :confused:
As far as locking this thread, that would be a move more suited for the cowards over on Predator masters.
Maybe we can talk this out (if anymore is needed) in a less aggressive way.
We got a cool crew here, it would be a sin if good guys got hurt and friendships are lost!!!
I'm not going to lock this thread, I have not locked on here yet. But we will keep this civil and respectful or take it to email!
Brent
Posted by: keekee
QuoteI'm not going to lock this thread, I have not locked on here yet. But we will keep this civil and respectful or take it to email!
I agree.
Gentlemen.... For the most part, we are adults here. Please, lets try to act like it.
Let's just let er die :wink: