Just wondering if anybody on here can give me some insight on howling for yotes. First of all, is it reasonable to expect coyotes to come all t he way into your howling? The reason I ask is because last night just before dark, Semp and I managed to locate a group of coyotes in an area where I had some success last season. We had teamed up on howling for about five minutes...no response... Then after a few minutes of silence they started firing off. They really got worked up and were getting after it big time. They sounded to be very close to where we had been calling. I pondered that situation most of the night and came up with the conclusion that those yotes had actually came into the howling. After Semp and I quit calling it was as if they were trying to find us. I feel like they started howling out of frustration (so to speak) of not being able to find they intruder. Does this sound even plausible? What kind of success have the rest of you had with actually howling coyotes in?
I have them come into howls a lot, but don't over do it.
If they howl at me, I just answer back at them the same thing. They will hunt you and they are good at pinpointing sound. Let 'em find you.
Start your stand with a howl and then listen. Howl one or two more times if they haven't answered and then wait. If they are around and the dominant coyotes, they'll come........eventually.
I kind of view it like this, but really need to do it a couple more years before I have proven my hypothesis.
If you are full and hear or smell something delicious, you may or may not go check it out.
If you are in bed, full or not, and hear someone's voice in your living room that you don't know. You'll check it out. Might rush in or might sneak down the hall, but you'll check it out.
I believe the coyotes do the same thing. Makes prey sounds not always effective, but hearing strangers in their area.......well, I just don't believe they can help themselves.
Hard to be sure what happened in the scenario you described. They come on the sneak lots of times without howling back. Like Gerry Blair says, they all react but don't all respond.
Its very possible that they moved into the area you all were howling from. It happens allot. And allot of the time you wont even get a vocal response at all, they just sneak in. Just remember that they will cut the wind if they can responding to vocalizations. The heard it, they cant see it so they are going to try and smell it.
When locating coyotes you trying to get a territorial response from them, in other words by howling your announcing your presents to any groups of coyotes in that area. So in return they let you know they are there as well, by vocalizing back to you or coming to the location to check things out. And more than likely they will come in the area (sometime) to check things out, you maybe gone but more than likely they will check the area out.
I been doing a little experiment here in my area on my way home from work at night. I keep a spray bottle of Coyote urine in the truck along with my howler. On the way home I pick a area to locate in. I stop the truck, find a spot were I can see tracks in the mud, snow, sand or what ever. I lay a small log or rock in the middle of that area. Make sure the old tracks if there are any are cleaned out. Then spray the log or rock with Coyote urine. I then howl, using a group yip howl. I hang around for 10-15 to see if I get a vocal response then leave. I stop by there the next day on my way to work and check the area around the scent post I left for tracks. I will make a post later this winter on how my test turns out.
This is a topic that can bring allot of different opinions out and allot of different thinking. I use allot of vocalizations to call coyotes, I enjoy howling them in. Allot of the time that's all I use. But for just strait numbers you going to want to mix things up. Pup distress goes good with Coyote vocalizations on stands as well as adult Coyote distress.
Brent
That's a killer idea Brent. I'm gonna do that experiment around here if you don't mind....... :wo:
One thing though, wouldn't pup distress and coyote distress still be considered "vocalizations"? Just curious as to what you are callling coyote vocalizations and what doesn't fit into the category?
Dang good idea though. I'm gonna do it and post my results right after you post yours. It would be interesting to see how much they differ or resemble each other............... :wink:
Great stuff guys! I appreciate the input. I also believe that leaving a mock scent post combined with howling should be an excellent idea. I'll be anxiously awaiting your results. And I too may even give it a try in a couple of my favorite spots. :eyebrow:
bopeye,
I like your first post above.
"If you are full and hear or smell something delicious, you may or may not go check it out.
If you are in bed, full or not, and hear someone's voice in your living room that you don't know. You'll check it out. Might rush in or might sneak down the hall, but you'll check it out."
Makes sense to me.
I agree with Bopeye's theory above. A coyote with a full belly doesn't seem to want to come in to a distress call. I've spotted them laying down as I have been walking into stands before, and started the stand with a distress call. Nothin. But when I did a howl, they came right in on a string.
Based on that, I always start off my stands with 3 long howls. I have had coyotes come in to the howls in less than 10 seconds. And where I call, it doesn't matter on how loud that I call either. There are some theories out there that say you can scare coyotes away if you howl too loud at first. I don't believe that is true. I started a stand one time at the end of a heavy draw in a pasture. Three big and loud howls, and out of the draw about 50 yards away pops out 2 coyotes coming right for me. I usually hunt the wider open spaces, so take it for what it is. I don't like hunting the timber, so I don't have much experience with that. I like to seem em coming in from at least a quarter mile away or more.
If I don't see any movement in 60 seconds after the first 3 howls, then I go to the distress. It kinda goes along with the territory theory above. If I can't get em to come into territorial inquiries, I figure that a new coyote in someone's territory eating their dinner will surely get someone's attention. If I don't see anything in 15-20 mins, then I go to the next place.
If I know there are coyotes around the area that I am calling, I may follow up the 3 lonesome howls with some challenge howls a minute or two later. I usually only do the challenge howls the last stand of the day as the daylight is turing to twilight. I just don't seem to get much of a response to a challenge howl at any other part of the day. If I am going to do the follow up challenge howls, I start off the lonesome howls kind of higher pitched than normal. The theory here is that a younger coyote is moving into the area, and is wanting to see if anyone is home with the 3 howls. If nobody is home, then a challenge howl will certainly make sure that there is nobody home so that they don't get kicked out later.
If I hear a group howl that is close by, I will definately do a couple of challenge howls in response. More often than not, that will push them over the edge to come the distance to you if they are hung up out there.
One thing that I have noticed from the coyotes that have showed up from howling is that doubles and tripples have come in much, much faster than singles do. Singles seem to hold up a bit and check out what is going on a bit more cautiously.
Quote from: Bopeye on December 27, 2007, 03:25:36 PM
That's a killer idea Brent. I'm gonna do that experiment around here if you don't mind....... :wo:
One thing though, wouldn't pup distress and coyote distress still be considered "vocalizations"? Just curious as to what you are callling coyote vocalizations and what doesn't fit into the category?
Dang good idea though. I'm gonna do it and post my results right after you post yours. It would be interesting to see how much they differ or resemble each other............... :wink:
Bop I always thought you resembled Brent. :nono: :roflmao: :nono:
Sorry I couldnt resist. Please carry on , a very good topic and input ! :highclap:
Jeb
I don't think of coyote pup distress as being a vocal really. Not like howling any way. When a pup is in distress he is getting his butt kicked or is injured in some fashion. This is beyond the norm. It will however trigger a territorial response from the alpha pair. They do all the butt kicking in their territory.
That reaction you got is one reason we get the theck out of there in a few minutes. Better they come in and smell nothing and get agravated enough to howl to locate the intruder. Now that you located them figure out where they came from and mark your maps. Jimmie
Quote from: Jimmie in Ky on December 27, 2007, 06:58:04 PM
I don't think of coyote pup distress as being a vocal really. Not like howling any way. When a pup is in distress he is getting his butt kicked or is injured in some fashion.
That's my whole point. When a pup is getting his butt kicked, I can't think of too many things that are any more "vocal". :nono:
I have abunch of uncallable coyotes where i hunt, i tried all the tricks, still no takers..One Day i was talking with Rich H. and he said i should set up a trail camera at one of my stands to see if maybe the coyote is comeing in but at a later time. I don't have a trail camera so what i did was go out calling when we had fresh snow, i made three stands in areas that i knew held coyotes just before dark.. About an hour after sunset the wind picked up and did'nt stop blowing till 4:30 in the A.M. I went out to where i made my stands and looked for tracks, I had fresh tracks come in to all three of my stands. So the coyotes did come in to my calling only 10-12 hrs later. We ended up tracking down two of the three coyotes and killed them and the third escaped into a pipe.. Now i use my howling and locateing to our advantage, i will howl just as it gets dark to locate coyotes and i will howl around 4:00 A.M. to also locate or bring coyotes into the area. I come back later and look for fresh tracks and then we track them down.
Here is a pic of five that where a family group or just happen to be in same section, that i was able to locate and come back and harvest an hour later..(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/IMG_1206.jpg)
That's a nice strategic theory brought to life TA~
So what kind of terrain are you hunting, where ya located?
Mostly farm land with very little cover, a few creeks and some CRP fields. Some areas the land is flat and other areas a few rolling hills..
Sounds like Missouri or Kansas........... :shrug:
Bop,
Yes I do think that Adult Coyote crys and puppy distress are vocalizations. Anything that is produced using there voice box to me a vocalization. Its not in the same classification as howls but none the less I think its still a vocalization.
Brent
edit....Spelling!
Returning from my deer stand one evening I saw scratch marks and scat left on a sandy road. Feeling onery I
peed all over the area. The next morning, I saw the coyotes were not happy with the sign I had left. The whole
area was scratched up with more scat left. I had not done any howling or other calling.
Nelson
That's awesome Nelson :roflmao: ..........I know a few spots to go and do that...... :eyebrownod:
Thats funny Nelson! :biggrin:
I bet that Coyote thought.....What the HELL!! :biggrin:
Brent
Nelson-- Do you think the chances of shooting a coyote off your scent post :hahaha: with a challenge howl or two woulda been very high?? Kinda like the "I'm back!! Who wants a piece!! :readthis:" :shrug: Just wondering. :biggrin:
Bopeye: Nelson may have pulled that off o.k., but if you decide to try it, I'd suggest you be awfully careful in that area for a long time if nature's urge forces you into the bushes. :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Quote from: Bopeye on December 28, 2007, 10:18:16 AM
That's awesome Nelson :roflmao: ..........I know a few spots to go and do that...... :eyebrownod:
Geeeeee... Thanks Nelson. :iroll: Now I'll have to watch Bop or else he'll be "marking his territory" on my truck tires :doh2:
:roflmao:
:roflmao: :roflmao: @ ^^^^!!
Who says an old dog can't learn a new trick from a litter of pups!! :roflmao: :roflmao:
Wow! This thread got hijacked but good. It started out talking about coyote howling and ends up taking a leak in the road. :shrug:
Yeah..........well........I suppose that's my fault Semp. I'm sorry 'bout that. :innocentwhistle: Just go back to my earlier suggestion and read it two or three times. It'll make it all new again. :eyebrownod:
Hamer,
My answer to your question is, I don't know. Deer season will be over in a couple of weeks,
and I'll give it a try if I find more fresh scratch marks. :eyebrownod:
Nelson
Cool!! It would be interesting to know!! Thanks!! :biggrin:
Wait fellas, Not to far high jacked. This line of thought made me remember soemthing either Rich Higgins or someone else once said. They used coyote urine on top of the scent post already there just like another coyote had done it. Used a stick to make new marks on the ground. Then went back after doing this and howled up the critter. The theory was that th original animal would stick around to see who was trying to take over his territory. Never tried it myself, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. Thing is leanring to find these and recognize them on a regular basis. But it would be an excellent cure for a problem animal if it was call shy to prey sounds.
This idea works aolong the same lines as a trappers scent post set. Jimmie
Thanks Jimmie!! I need all the help I can get too!! :eyebrow:
QuoteThis idea works aolong the same lines as a trappers scent post set. Jimmie
Yes, you are right on that point but dont forget that the Coyotes know that it human scent. Hands down! I dont know so much that they hang around the area but more of it may be more inside there core area.
Brent
Do you remember who it was that used this tactic with coyote urine Keekee? I ca't for the life of me. They mentioned it about th same time I was discussing down wind calling with Ed sceery. It's been a few years. They mentioned it as a possible help to a problem I was having. Jimmie
QuoteDo you remember who it was that used this tactic with coyote urine Keekee?
I have no idea. To much has happend in to much time gone by for me.
Brent
Howling, for me, is fun
It works when other calls don't
Canine distress, pup or adult, is certainly a vocalization
Doing things to get coyotes any way you can, within reason, is exciting
TA is from The Gopher State
Quote from: Jimmie in Ky on December 29, 2007, 08:57:14 PM
Do you remember who it was that used this tactic with coyote urine Keekee? I ca't for the life of me. They mentioned it about th same time I was discussing down wind calling with Ed sceery. It's been a few years. They mentioned it as a possible help to a problem I was having. Jimmie
Darrell Holland mentions using coyote urine in his DVD set, probably about 10 years old. There is one brand in particular he recommended as havnig the best results with, but I can't remember offhand who made it.
Never met or heard of Mr Holland. But there are dozens of old coyote men out there that knew a pot load of things we are having to learn on our own. And very few of those men have been on the internet. Some are alreeady gone and I for one miss the knowledge they took with them. And it was about ten years ago I was discussing such things with some of those men on the net. They helped me a great deal in understanding what I was seeing in the field. I thank those men for what they had to teach me. Jimmie