I was wondering do you guys howl at the beginning of your set or at the end or in the middle or not at all?
I love to howl emup and wanted your scope on the subject. :yoyo:
http://www.geocities.com/alscalls/coyote.html (http://www.geocities.com/alscalls/coyote.html)
I have never called em in on a set that I howl on. When I howl, I always howl a few times on the first couple series, then switch it over to distess. So I am curious to hear what others have to say works for them. :eyebrow:
MEEEEEEEE to :eyebrownod: :eyebrownod:
I've had more responses...meaning coyotes coming..to howling with no distress, then I have to howling WITH distress. I dont know if it's geographic location or not.
One thing I can say though, the whole month of March up here is the best time all season for howls. Right before denning. :yoyo:
How much and what kind of howling do you do Jim?
I've had very good results when I howl in the morning right after the coyotes howl at dawn. The distress sounds don't seem to matter as the coyotes come right to the source of the howling. I had a friend of mine trying out his new caller and playing a distress sound. The coyotes howled right after daylight, so I howled back at them. The coyote ran right past his decoy and caller to look for the source of the howling. I've had this happen more than once. MI VHNTR
Thats what Im talking about!!! :congrats: :congrats: :congrats:
MORE MORE
I love it when that happens but they usually hang up just out of sight.......... :wo:
http://www.geocities.com/alscalls/coyote.html (http://www.geocities.com/alscalls/coyote.html)
I've had fare luck with howling. When I've used howling they've always circled, to get a wiff of who it is I guess. To get back to the first question I've used howls at the beginning and I've used soft distress, if no luck, howl then distress.
now I ain't killed one yet, but ive gotten the most responses to just howling with a few soft barks than I have ever gotten using any kind of distress
My opinion is that the sooner you let that coyote know he's dealing with another coyote, the sooner the stand will be over.
Greenside is correct, or at least I agree with his above statement. The purpose of the howl is to tell resident coyotes that a stranger has invaded their territory. I howl once or twice, maybe three times to begin the stand. I use non aggressive, Lonesome sounding howls with no barks. After the howls, I wait in silence for a few minutes. Coyotes around here usually come in silent.
It seems to me that distress sounds are less risky than howling. They do not scare off any potential coyotes. On the other hand howls and coyote vocalizations could frighten young or less aggresive coyotes. For this reason I like to begin my stands with prey distress sounds for the first half of the stand. If I have no success I at least know I haven't scared anything away. Then I try howls the second half of the stand.
Jim
Your theory may be sound in unexploited area's, but coyotes in many area's are wise to rabbit screams by now. :laf:
Sounds like Jim and I do It much the same, However I do want to know what work or not for all you guys.
I am more on the lines of Frogman myself. We have given it a good try. We did 20 sets in the fall using howls only and 20 sets using distress only. Then we repeated this same test in the spring. We concluded in our area and the setups we use that distress during the stand and barks and yelps at the end of the stand works best for us.
I would how ever try this in your area because there are many people doing the howls with good success.
This is interesting........ :wo: :wo: I usually tend to distress first and howl at the end, most of the time. I wonder if it is an eastern thing or what :wo: :wo:
And I may or may not use a rabbit squaller, but what ever I use I try and play out a show of what is killing the rabbit, or whatever and what may be going on around that rabbit I will use several calls in one set. I never just sit and squall.
http://www.geocities.com/alscalls/coyote.html (http://www.geocities.com/alscalls/coyote.html)
Quote from: cb223 on March 19, 2008, 08:51:04 PM
How much and what kind of howling do you do Jim?
Depends on the situation Rich....?? Did I get your name right or did I just make a fool of myself. :confused:
If my partner is with me, we howl back and forth, and have even challenged each other, and drew in coyotes.
Alone, sometimes I will do a couple drawed out lonely howls and then just settle in. They come...they come in slow and weary but they come.
howling is a joke!!! we had try it a few times and hate the response that we get.
Quote from: FinsnFur on March 20, 2008, 09:48:14 PM
Quote from: cb223 on March 19, 2008, 08:51:04 PM
How much and what kind of howling do you do Jim?
Depends on the situation Rich....?? Did I get your name right or did I just make a fool of myself. :confused:
If my partner is with me, we howl back and forth, and have even challenged each other, and drew in coyotes.
Alone, sometimes I will do a couple drawed out lonely howls and then just settle in. They come...they come in slow and weary but they come.
You made a fool of yourself. :biggrin: Thanks for the info.
How slow?
Maybe I should do more posting than reading!
Chad
:doh2: Chad!
Sorry Pal.
How slow?...Well the fastest one I can actually recall was like 40 seconds , but it's never happened since. She ran right out on the frozen river, completely exposed herself and looked round like she was lost. Rick223 was squatted against the steep river bank on the other side, and I was in the middle of the river hunkered into pile of downed treetops.
If I had to play an average I'd say 40 minutes.
ilcoyote
You aint foolin nobody :nono: :nono:
Howling at the end of a stand? It seems counterintuitive to me. :wo:
If you are howling at the END, supposedly, how long do you wait afterward? You don't just howl and leave, do you? To be quite LITERAL if you howl last and then wait ten minutes aren't you actually ending the stand with silence and not a howl?
Doing it the same way every time leads to boredom. :sleep: In the bedroom or in the field... :shck:
I use distress then howl or howl and then distress I may never howl and use a hurt pup or whine or adult distress and prey distress or just howl once or twice or twenty times or lay there and fall asleep or whistle..............
We do wait after we howl, however like just last night we usually do not wait to long before they howl back. But they hung up just out of sight :confused:
http://www.geocities.com/alscalls/coyote.html (http://www.geocities.com/alscalls/coyote.html)
KillerCaller!,
Howling at the end is what really opened my eyes about howling. My first cow horn howler was a Herbs howler. This was the howler that old Herb used to make, not the newer model. This was back in the 1980's, when those of us here in the midwest thought that howlers were only good for "locating" coyotes. I had been calling with a rabbit call for maybe 15 minutes one day, and still no takers. I decided to howl a couple of times just for giggles. About half way through my second howl, I heard the boom of my buddy's 12 gauge. A pair of coyotes had been hung up back in the brush until they heard the howl. My buddy saw them come under a barb wire fence, and come full bore directly at me. He dropped one coyote at about twenty yards, short shucked the twelve, which went "click" on an empty chamber. Did that experience teach me something? Yep, it sure did. Nothing works all of the time for coyotes, but a howler is a mighty good tool to have in your arsenal of calls.
I usually give it a few minutes after the last howl. Lots of times the response can be somewhat delayed. I like to give them a chance to respond. This is just my first year and I'm still learning so take that into account when reading my posts.
I do know that on Friday night we had little or no response to distress sounds early in the stand. Then when we all howled in a seranade two packs of dogs lit up. One pack on the left side of the ridge and the other on the right side. We were not able to get them to the gun, but it sure was exciting hearing them respond.
Jim
QuoteMy opinion is that the sooner you let that coyote know he's dealing with another coyote, the sooner the stand will be over.
:wo: How about starting with some fox barks to really irritate the coyotes then?? :shrug: Let em know they have competition but at least it's the type they feel they can whoop up on. :shrug:
Glen,
Thanks for the suggestion about using fox barks. When we were out last night we actually tried fox vocals and cat sounds in place of rabbit distress. The response we got was when all of us started howling in a seranade. That really got the two packs fired up.
Jim
I'm still trying to kill my first coyote, but i normally try to mix up the howl's with the distress calls.
You're Welcome Jim. But did they close in any closer??
Mr. Cronk, exactly my point. You wasted 12 minutes with distress when a howl at the beginning would have cut the stand in quarters, as yourself or Greenside stated earlier. I am a big proponent of howling. It's a staple for me.
I suggest howling pretty quickly into a stand if you are going to howl at all. If you are starting with some quiet distress, pup or prey, to clear the immediate area and do not want to blow them out with a howl, so be it. Wait a few and then howl and go back to distress after a few minutes of silence. The pup distress, to me, would act the same as the howl.
Stranger, competition hibbity jibbity boo. W/out the extra volume.
The howler is, 99% of the time, going to be the longer range tool in your arsenal. Clearing the immediate area may have some running the opposite direction because they've heard that song before, etc. The howls may turn the runners back or reach some far off ears and they may take several minutes or 30 seconds to respond.
There are pitfalls to howling but the upside, in my mind, is way too great to not do it at all. Ramble... Ramble... :rolleye:
Quote from: HaMeR on March 23, 2008, 07:58:19 AM
You're Welcome Jim. But did they close in any closer??
Glen,
We did the fox and cat sounds first. After about 15 minutes we started the howling seranade. The dogs lit up on both sides of the ridge for seveal minutes. One of the guys continued to try to get the dogs in by howling and hurt pup kiyi's with no success. They might have come in closer, but with our cover and terrain none of us saw any dogs. :madd:
Jim
Wow what a night, but still no one has a succsess story on these kind of hang ups. :rolleye: :rolleye:
http://www.geocities.com/alscalls/coyote.html (http://www.geocities.com/alscalls/coyote.html)
Maybe they just need a break from all the calling. I haven't called once since I've been back. Maybe an evening or 2 this week tho. :eyebrownod:
Every one of my spots that we hit has not been hunted in months with the exeption of one and it had been three weeks and we still got a response from that one. I keep pretty good track of that so I dont over call one spot.
http://www.geocities.com/alscalls/coyote.html (http://www.geocities.com/alscalls/coyote.html)
Cool!! :biggrin:
A dod is a dog and he will do what ever he wants when he wants. Every person on these post have had the same problem im sure. And just like these folks on this forum , they are all different and will do something different then u and I to a point. these eastern yotes r tough and this time of year makes it even tougher. We had some good set ups the other night n still no luck with fur on the ground, but i will be back out again to try my luck. WE went out sat night and had several packs respond but same thing hang ups. If there are any experts out there that would like to hunt with us we can put u on dogs and we will see if u can bring them in that extra step.
first ya gotta know how to spell dog PEE WE :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
i tant pell vewy dood torry bassole
I have found when your dealing with a pack that group howls to your howling, the way I have been able to pull one or two from the pack, even at night, is to lay it on them. Relentless barks and howls, at some point and time you will get a threat howl from one in that group, when it does, lay it to him, threat him back, just remember to keep it in a lower tone than him but be persistant. That has worked plenty of times to get an approach from at least one coyote sometimes the whole pack in the field, although they tend to stay back aways as one approaches, similar to how a group of crows work.
Now I'm not saying it works everytime, but I can say it works enough to justify using this technique.
Brent and I have a couple pieces of footage doing this, I'll dig through the piles of tapes to see if I can put them up for you guy's to see.
JD
JD,
Thanks for the tip on getting those hung up dogs in. We will try that next time we get a pack responding to us. This forum is great. As a relative newbie to the sport I really appreciate you more experienced guys taking the time to share your information. :highclap:
Many thanks! :yoyo: :yoyo: :yoyo:
Jim
Quote from: canine on March 24, 2008, 11:58:53 AM
I have found when your dealing with a pack that group howls to your howling, the way I have been able to pull one or two from the pack, even at night, is to lay it on them. Relentless barks and howls, at some point and time you will get a threat howl from one in that group, when it does, lay it to him, threat him back, just remember to keep it in a lower tone than him but be persistant. That has worked plenty of times to get an approach from at least one coyote sometimes the whole pack in the field, although they tend to stay back aways as one approaches, similar to how a group of crows work.
Now I'm not saying it works everytime, but I can say it works enough to justify using this technique.
Brent and I have a couple pieces of footage doing this, I'll dig through the piles of tapes to see if I can put them up for you guy's to see.
JD
Thanlks, Is it on one of the DVD's? I just ordered one of them.
Quote from: golfertrout on March 23, 2008, 06:37:31 PM
i tant pell vewy dood torry bassole
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Alscalls, Those clips aren't on Full Throttle or back to basics..They'll most likely be used in the seminar series videos we are about to release.
JD
I am very interested in seeing that. I take it these are daytime hunts?
http://www.geocities.com/alscalls/coyote.html (http://www.geocities.com/alscalls/coyote.html)
They were right before dark. Neither clip shows a kill, the first one the kid shooting spooked the approaching coyote. The second, the coyote pops out of cover at our hard right at about 20 yards and my son had a rifle, so no shot was takin at that coyote. But, it does show they can be taunted into an approach.
JD
That happens a lot, When you finnaly get one to show something happens to spook the do, or a missed shot. :madd:
Been there done that. :laf: Now did you howl first?
Al you need to learn how to spell also finally and spook the do
Yes, I was first to howl. At times they answer the howl and others they'll howl at pup distress. From that point, I'll pour it on them with vocalizations. Not over-bearingly though. Barks are kept to a non-aggresive bark and howls that way also. That is until I am threatened by one of them, then it's game on :yoyo:.....Some we win :wink:.......many we lose :wo:
JD
This is just the way I do it out West. I always start out with a howl. Our coyotes are pretty responsive to that alone. If I don't get any takers, I might just do a yip or two, then wait. I like to fool with their minds and make them think another coyote has come in. I'm a firm believer in lots of time in between howls and not overcalling
especially in areas that have had some pressure. They have heard the rabbit blues before and a pretty good tell tell sign is watching them get out of Dodge. They won't hesitate. If you are good on a howler, they won't associate that sound as easy as a dying rabbit. If I am in a area that hasn't had too much pressure , or early in season , I will use distress sounds along with the howl. I will go with howler first, wait and then go with distress, and then back to howler before I get up and leave. I have had some success on coyotes that hang up using cat in distress, a sound that a lot of guys don't use. I mainly do it with my voice. Works pretty dange good. Now I'm letting the cat out of the bag. In late season techniques like that will work for ya.
Im getting a lot of good info here. Thanks guys. I would love to hear more on howling. :eyebrownod:
http://www.geocities.com/alscalls/coyote.html (http://www.geocities.com/alscalls/coyote.html)