Jim,
I sure am glad we had a chance to visit a bit. It was good to see you.
I'm spamming a little in case any members here didn't read it elsewhere.
Barry and I were documenting this incident in KC as it unfolded.
Steve Dillon saw a coyote in the parking lot as he was driving back to the hotel. They (Steve, Mike, Gerry and Beverly Blair) stopped in the parkway and Steve lip squeaked it over to the car. It went to the door and then around the front of the car and onto the parkway median. That's when we pulled up in a Suburban choke full of expert predator callers (Randy Black, Randy reeves, Barry, Barbara, Ernie and some fart from AZ with a camera). We stopped on the parkway too right behind Dillon and all doors flew open. Predator hunters piled out like a Volkswagen full of clowns at a PT Barnum circus leaving the Burb in the middle of the road.
The coyote veered away only to be pursued by no less than 8 lip-squeakers. I'm sure the coyote thought he had died and gone to mouse heaven.
Here's some pictures from two amateur photographers showing different views of the same coyote.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/scragn/Hyatt101Small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/scragn/Hyatt10Small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/scragn/Hyatt05Small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/scragn/Hyatt06Small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/scragn/Hyatt11Small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/scragn/Hyatt102Small.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/scragn/Hyatt02Small.jpg)
Some of these photos are from two vantage points. We were out-flanking the critter and nobody had a rope or piggin string. Obviously this coyote knew I was there but when he heard all those mouse squeaks he quickly forgot about me. Biggest dang mice he ever saw. He's thinking hard on how he's gonna drag one off to his hidey hole. Might have to go get more help.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/scragn/Hyatt01Small.jpg)
That is none other than Randy RajinCajun in the photo practicing on his right handed two-finger suck technique.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/scragn/Hyatt09Small.jpg)
Parking stalls are 9 feet wide so you can see that the coyote going to Randy's squeaks is only around 12 or 13 feet away when I snapped this shot. It got to about 5 feet to Randy's right arm. I took a photo but it disappeared in cyberspace or somewhere. [color:"red"]Randy's eyes glowed just like a coyote. I'll do some thinking on that later.[/color]
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/scragn/Hyatt12Small.jpg)
With eight guys lip-squeaking the coyote had no chance BUT Ragin Randy Cajun Out lip-squeaked us all.
It was funny to see seasoned predator hunters hiding underneath streetlights. Think about it. The only ones to call in a coyote during the 2008 Predator Hunting Expo didn't win the calling contest.
The coyote finally decided we had nothing he wanted and left. We went to the hotel front entrance and others went to retrieve their vehicles left out in the street. Somebody said "Let's go call it back in and seemed like a pretty good idea so off we went. I started calling and before long somebody hollers out "Here he comes". Talking on a stand never works does it. We caught glimpses of the coyote was coming back from the ambient lighting from street lights and such. We noticed that it had something rabbit-size in it's mouth. At 60-70 yards out it veered hard to his right and disappeared from view.
If we'd only had a school-girl topper for the JIB I think it would have come right on in.
As it was the Randy Reeves JIB Topper worked much better than we could have imagined. It's only in the testing stage and I can't say when it will be available.[img]
That coonass is everybodies friend... ain't no tellin' how he made that connection.
LOL.
I never thought that he might have already known that dog.
If it turns out he set us up, there'll be he|| to pay.
What kind of camo did yall wear?........ :roflmao: :laf: :roflmao: that is funny.......never happens in the East :nono: :laf:
Not sure I know what you mean Al.
We were about as far east in Kansas as we could get.
Good thing too because we had to keep crossing over into Missouri to get beer.
Kansas has some weird laws that change depending on time and day of the week.
I have never seen or heard of a coyote doing anything like that around WV is what I meant I work hard at it and am lucky to see the few that I do.......everyone says out west it is easy and to me KC is west.
I would love to go and see for myself how it is hunting those western dogs :shrug: I may find I just suck at it but ya never know....... :shrug: I might just need to wear blue jeans and a T shirt and work on my lip squeakin skills...... :laf:
LoL nice pics, I enjoyed them.
Al you are right that is out west for us, I have had alot of folks say if you can kill a coyote in the east you can kill a bunch in the west. You know we could kill alot out there Al, There are alot more dogs and alot less cover. Those western hunters would give up hunting if they had to hunt here. I would like to see one of them come here and kill the numbers they do out there
CRAZY, man can you beleive that :nono: :nono:
Al, I know what you meant. I was just funnin' with you.
If coyotes were as hard to hunt out west as they are back east, I'd most likely take up quilting.
We see quite a few coyotes in and around the city out here at all times of the morning and evening hours.
The opportunity and timing of running into a coyote with a Suburban full of predator callers during the Predator and Hunting Expo in Kansas City was too bizzar.
Later on after the incident during our mandatory beer bullsession, we all agreed that we sure would have been funny to catch it and let it loose during the calling contest. If Randy had been carrying a net like he was supposed to, we'd have caught it but sure as shootin' it'd bit somebody and we'd have to blame it on FoxPro.
That cannot be mere happenstance. It was in the Runes! Pedicted by the Tarot!
AlsCalls, I am sure that situation, sans 12 or so legends of calling, occurs more frequently than one would like to believe. Even here in the Middle-East-Westish.
dont happen here in the east to much, but out west there are alot more dogs that is why you all kill the numbers you do, come here in WV and see how many you kill, there are alot less dogs and alot more cover
I think that's your problem.
You're hunting in the thick stuff when you really need to be in a nice empty parking lot.
dont happen here in the east to much, but out west there are alot more dogs that is why you all kill the numbers you do, come here in WV and see how many you kill, there are alot less dogs and alot more cover
It don't happen out there to much ether,
why is it more coyote friendly out there , higher density of coyotes - less hunter presure,,
most hunters out west kill high numbers because they are good hunters...
they could come here,, my belief is they wouldn't kill any more then a good hunters here, nor would they kill any less,
there is thick cover in all the states.
it not a east west thing it a coyote density and pressure thing..
If you kill them here regularly you can kill them anywhere,
here is not just get out the truck lay your smoke on the rock next to yea and blow..you can do that on some unpresured coyote that are living in a high density area . some you cant ..
here you just got to work harder that all. and most them cowboy can work hard if they need to.
just my thought not a argument
It would seem as though they are a different breed almost........But I would have liked to seen ya catch him and let him loose while JD was howling........ :laf: He woulda made some elk sound and won anyway for callin one in... :roflmao: :roflmao:
same breed ,different mine set
i would of given my left arm to make it to the expo ,, and yes I would of like to have met jay, and some others.
Yeah, I gotta admit, when I caught wind of that story..I said "Bullsht" :nono:
I heard it from like four different people before you approached me Jay, and you all had the same exact story.
Kinda funny when you think about it, expert coyote hunters hiding under the veil of a street light. :doh2:
Just goes to show....no matter how much we think we know about these creatures, we have to ask our selves, do they know the same set of rules we preach on these boards. :confused:
Aw hell Al,
He would'a screamed like a little school girl and won the contest hands down.
Jim,
I think that coyote was headed West cause he was kicked out of PA for being too easy.
WHY JAY WHY :confused: THAT GUY THAT'S GIVEN YOU THE HARD TIME ANT FROM PA
WHY PICK ON US JAY,,,,, WHERE IS THE LOVE
HE SAID (((come here in WV and see )))))))))))
Nice pictures Jay..By the way, thanks for the digital juice tip...my order is on it's way!!!!
Yeah..I double dare ya.....come here to ohio and see what ya think of our coyotes, You'll have a place to stay here too, just no beer though....I know how you like your beer, but that can't happen here, my wife don't know I drink... :biggrin:
JD
George,
I started out to say WV but couldn't spell Virginy, then decided Pennsylvia was harder so I stopped at plain old PA and hit enter.
JD,
No beer, no deal. Tell your wife I'll buy a case of marmalaid if she buys the beer.
Damn! Lots of hard spellin' words in this post.
George,
I started out to say WV but couldn't spell Virginy, then decided Pennsylvia was harder so I stopped at plain old PA and hit enter.
See that right there I can understand,, I have been known to use my spell check and just take what ever word is the closest sounding to what I am looking for and use it :wink:
OK...Just make sure the empties find the trash can :eyebrow: :innocentwhistle: :biggrin:
After we kill a few Ohio Coyotes, we'll tour PA and WV :yoyo:
What is marmalaid anyhow? Never heard of it...will it put her in a better mood?
JD
Hey Jay,
As long as we are staying at JD's I will buy the BEER!....lol
But you better come before it gets cold or we will never get you out of the house! :biggrin: I can put money on the line that if she cooks, It will be some of the best eating you ever had!
If you stay at my house some you can leave the beer cans anywere you want and we will order pizza but it will still be cold....lol
Brent
JD,
I meant apple butter.
Brent,
Start scouting some of the bigger parking lots.
I never meant to divulge my secret hot spots but it's in the open now.
edit:
BTW, I meant to say I enjoyed tipping a few with you two.
Also if JD starts practicing that schoolgirl scream, I'm pretty sure he'd win it next year.
:roflmao: :laf: :roflmao:
Quote from: Uncle Jay on August 26, 2008, 11:33:51 PM
Start scouting some of the bigger parking lots.
:laf: :laf:
PA is alot like WV as far as lay of the land, just like the eastern part of Ohio. I would love to see some western hunters come out in the east and see how they fair. I am sure they would not kill the numbers they do out west. You look at alot of videos and most are from out west and you see wide open country. Brent Saxton made an Eastern video and I think gives a little view on the eastern yote but how many other vids have you seen on the eastern yote? Not many i am sure. I am pretty sure that Brent or I could come out west and kill the numbers you all do.
golfertrout,
I've thought a lot about this topic. I wouldn't say that I could go out west & kill coyotes like anybody else, as a matter of fact I would probably be lost for a little while until I could study the land & know how to use it for my benefit. After I put in my time I would like to think that I could hang in there with anybody, but it would be a learning experience for me.
As far as killing coyotes in my area, I can honestly say that I kill as many if not more than the other hunters. Now you take a guy from another area & put him on my turf he would have a hard time........Until he put in his scouting time & learned how to hunt in my location.
It all in how serious you are about killing dogs, sure there are areas that would be easier than others but I don't think it would be a walk in the park just to be a western hunter.
I sure would like to take a trip out there (to some good areas) to see for myself though! :yoyo:
I had a buddy that went out west elk hunting, he shot his elk and spent the rest of his days hunting coyotes, he shot 4 coyotes and has never coyote hunted until going out west. He told me he seen all kinds of coyotes out there so you tell me is it easier out west.
What part of "the west" are we talking about? I'm sure there are areas that are hot spots but I doubt there are as many as people think.
I see too many people from "out west" that make post's asking for help to beleive it is that easy everywhere past the Mississippi.
I plan on taking a trip to to a western state in the next year or two, I hope it's as easy as everybody says it is. :wink:
In all honesty I would think I'd have terrible luck back East for several reasons.
Out West I get to go pretty much wherever I want and am not restricted by making do with what's available.
If I am not running into coyotes, I simply jump in the truck and drive 20, 30 or more miles, get out and start calling again.
It's easy to do several times in a single day and Bingo! You eventually run into pockets of coyotes.
The numbers out West are much greater than East. I don't know by what percentage but I'd imagine it's BIG. That alone reduces the odds significantly for coyote/human encounters back East.
I never bought in to the smart/dumb arguments because it's just a dog. There's dumb ones and not so dumb ones wherever you go. Some are easy and some are not. Just ask any trapper.
The desert areas in AZ makes it easier because you call towards the pockets of thicker vegetation instead of everything being thick. It's easier to figure out where they might be. There are areas in AZ that is every bit as thick as back east and you know what? There are coyotes there too BUT it's harder to get decent numbers unless you know where they are.
I grew up in NE Oklahoma and there are places so thick you can't get through so when I was young we resorted to calling two-tracks, cow trails and fields with shotguns. That went for deer as well.
I think the bottom line is that success is measured by how hard you work to achieve realistic goals you set whether it's one coyote or 100 coyotes during a season.
So.... With that said.... Are Eastern Coyotes Smarter? Nope.... They're the same. Only the hunters aren't so bright.....That's a joke guys. It's only a joke. Barrack Obama paid me to say that.
Jay, Id like to add to that, coyotes out in your part of AZ are actually harder to shoot. With all the mesquite bushes and draws they hit coming in and then many times pooof, there one is, takes ya by surprise. Then as they usually do, just as here in the east, they head downwind.
JD
Being from the panhandle area of Nebraska and also having lived in Northeastern Wyoming and and Northwestern Kansas I can say that hunting coyotes there is different. I got lucky in October when I went back there and called in five or six coyotes in as many stands, but I positioned myself in areas that my cousins had said there were coyotes. You still have to use your mind and hunt them. I saw one crossing a freshly tilled field, but he seemed to be more of the exception than the rule. The ones I called were coming out of thick, brush choked ravines and creek bottoms, which is very similar to where they are coming out on me right now here in Tennessee. Only difference was being able to see them a little easier out there. They were still heading to the downwind and also checking up just like our coyotes do.
Hopefully I'll be heading back out there again this fall to see Grandma. This time I will bring my own stuff and I will KILL some. :wink:
Quote from: Uncle Jay on August 27, 2008, 03:29:50 PM
I think the bottom line is that success is measured by how hard you work to achieve realistic goals you set whether it's one coyote or 100 coyotes during a season.
Jay, you pretty much summed it up.
I would like to think that if you had the tiime to study your areas you would be a good hunter, even in the east. The coyotes are here, but you have to work a little harder to find & kill em.
Rprince,
I can't argue that a bit.
There are areas here that if I put in a little more leg-work and tried a little harder, I could bag a nice 4X4 instead of my typical 2X3 mulie.
If I walked over two extra ridges I could prossibly get an extra coyote or two or three.
Same with canyons up nothern AZ. If I worked a little harder my successes would be a little greater.
Jay,
I'm sure this varies A LOT between callers but what consists of a good year for a caller in your area? I'm not really talking about somebody that does it for a living, I'm talking about your better than average caller that is serious about predator calling.
I'm curious as to what I compare a good year in the east & what you would say is a good year in the west.
Thanks
Rprince,
Skip to the bottom for your answer.
I've been a weekend hunter most of my life. Like most all of you I am married and have children and now grandchildren. A whole herd of them.
A good year would be to sneak away part or some part of 20 weekends. Deer hunting always included predator calling as did elk and any other hunting trip.
Now... With that said the first ten years of calling was as a teenager, discovering girls, high school, getting into the workforce, 3 years of college, discovering girls, and finally a real paying job and discovering girls. AND IN OKLAHOMA TOO!. During those impressionable years I averaged somewhere slightly over a dozen coyotes a year plus a few strays and a boatload of pigeons and barn cats.
At age 25 I moved to AZ. The first 6 months here I did not hunt because I was considered nonresident but I travelled all over the state.
6 months after I moved to AZ, I bought a hunting licence and have consistently taken between 30 and 40 coyotes a year. That's coyotes I called and took myself. You can probably double that number for the ones taken that I called and someone else took or sat on a stand holding my gun while someone else did all the calling and shooting. You can double the total number of coyotes taken and that would give you a rough estimate of the total number called. Add another percentage for the coyotes we never knew we called. Probably a bazillion.
There's not a coyote behind every bush out here in Arizona like some folks believe. When I moved to AZ it was more like every 4th bush. Since then it has dwindled to about every 12th bush.
Now those 30 to 40 coyotes every year to a dramatic hit when I first picked up a video camera. The numbers were still the same but I wasn't doing as much calling and shooting. The total take went down because when filming, one has to violate virtually every sensible rule of hunting there is in order that others can enjoy your hunt without being there.
In the late 70's, after having scouted properly for coyote pockets we could expect for a team of two hunters to go out at first light until dark and see no less than 11 shootable coyotes every day. "Shootable" means in range standing still. anything less than 11 was a bad day. We didn't always come home with 11. Most of the time it was 6. There were days when we were skunked, but it all seemed to average out to that eleven number.
Nowadays I expect to see no less than 4 shootable coyotes during a full day. There are places we can get nine coyotes in a day to day and 1/2 but then we move on to the less productive areas because we have to let the good area build back up.
Equating in MPC I average one coyote per 85 miles of driving or 85 miles per coyote.
OK.. I had to go back and read what the question was since I got to rambling on.
Any good caller in Arizona should get at least 2 to 4 coyotes per day.
Any good caller should know where not to hunt. The more "where not to hunt areas" you learn helps you to become a better caller.
Even a bad sounding caller can bag more coyotes than a good caller if he knows where the coyotes are.
Son-uv-a-gun. I just found the spell checker button. Cool.
edit to add:
The only night hunting allowed in AZ is for coon and not from any vehicle.
Everything is daylight hunting.
I couldn't imagine what a zoo it would be if night calling were allowed.
Rprince..... 4.
4 per day is your answer.
Jay,
Thanks a lot. I appreciate you taking the time to write that reply. :bowingsmilie:
This past year I either killed or witnessed the killing of 25, I hunted quite a bit, but like you pointed out, I do have a wife & family that always comes first.
I don't know of anybody that kills any more coyotes in this area as a recreational hunter, we don't have "professional hunters" in this area & we never will. If someone has killed more than that in TN I am totally unaware of it.
Based on your reply I must say that the hunting is definately different in the west (or at least from TN to AZ). I hope that I get a chance to hunt in a predator rich environment like that in the future.
Thanks again for the reply
Golfertrout,
I guess I stand corrected! :doh2:
Rprince,
Me and JD have spent a good amount of time out in the area Jay hunts and other areas out in AZ. As well as hunting with both Jay and Rich Higgins and Tyler and other local guys like Ray, Mike, and others.
The calling out there is not as easy as everyone might think. Those areas get pounded by club hunts and other callers. We hunted one area that we were put on and hunted it hard! Took two coyotes in a full day, only to find out they held a club hunt in that same area the weekend before. We found our selves scouting for coyotes even in AZ. Not like we do here but looking and reading the sign more to call in areas that held coyotes.
And we found ourselves changing up to shot guns and calling down in the cover to kill coyotes,or hunting shotgun only areas, and that sucks for video reasons! But like Jay says there just is not a coyote behind every bush like some think.
Jays giving you strait numbers for sure, the calling out there can be tough if you don't have a locked gate area to hunt. But can also be awesome if your in a area that holds coyotes!
Brent
Brent,
I think it shows that no matter where you hunt you have to know the area & at least half-way understand the coyotes to be sucessfull.
If you go back & need someone to help split the cost, give me a yell, I'd like to see what a TN boy can do out there :yoyo:
Randy
Jay & Brent
Jay-- I'm wondering about your thoughts on the coyote population being much larger out west then here in the east. BTW I'm in east central Ohio. From talking to farmers & friends that live out of town it seems our population is rather high & growing at a purdy good rate. Do you think it's possible that we can have a lot more coyotes over here than most folks think? We just can't see em as easily with all the valleys,draws,timber,brush around here.
Brent-- You've hunted both. What is your take on what I'm asking.
Not meant to start any crap. I just think we have more coyotes than we know of.
Anybody else can weigh in on this peacefully too if they like.
Hamer,
I tried to start a thread on that subject a day or 2 ago, so far there have been no replies.
Here's some info that was recently published for TN.
http://www.finsandfur.net/forums/index.php?topic=6485.0
HaMer,
First off anything I say would be speculation since I am unfamiliar with the conditions in your area.
Game and Fish agencies should be able to provide a guestimate of the number of breeding pairs as well as trapper reports.
I would venture to say that there are not nearly as many die-hard coyote hunters there as there are out west either.
Every year out here guys will buy predator calls and callers in the hundreds thinking that they will just go hunt coyotes since they didn't get drawn for any big game permits. The thinking is that they will get their hunting fix taken care of until the next draw season. They quickly learn that calling coyotes isn't as easy as buying a 12 dollar call or 300 dollar electronic. Very few of the new crop of coyote hunters ever spend the effort to go out more than once or twice. Their new purchases end up in a shoebox in a closet. I'm sure it's the same where you are at. The ones that stick around to call are a percentage of those that were lucky enough to have called one in and experience the thrill of having one come running at them.
Private land and hunting opportunity is a big hinderance in your areas I'm sure. Back in the 70's in OK it wasn't a problem for a kid with a 22 or shotgun. We never asked for permission to hunt. We just did it. If any asked where we got our coyote, turkey or deer we'd tell the truth everytime. "Over behind Rollins place" and the fellow listening would always say... "Yeah. I seen some back there awhile back. You boys be careful."
As for coyote numbers? I'm pretty sure it's all reletive on a percentage basis everywhere. We have large numbers of coyotes out west and the numbers are much greater than we think because we NEVER SEE every one we call in as I'm sure you don't. If I were to guess, I'd say that for every coyote you see, there are 2 you don't see. But that's all speculation on my part. Rich Higgins would be a better source of statistical data. I'm sure he's discussed this with the likes of Boddicker, Sceery ond other well known coyote men. I'm sure Gerald Stewart would have invaluable information as well. Dan Thompson might, but I'm not sure.
I'm not much help on this subject but I hope others will weigh in. That coyote we saw in Kansas City was carrying a cardboard sign when we first spotted him. It read "Send me back to Ohio. This place sucks!"
We have had nights where every where we would go you could hear a bunch of em howling and I know the numbers are high but to give a coyote per acre? I would have no Idea
Even the trappers around here that do well on coyotes say it is damn hard work to get them. one guy I know got 29 yotes this past season and he was only running like 20 sets. and he only trapped 2 1/2 months on 300 acres:shrug:
I know they are there I scout a lot and I have pics of thier tracks and scat. I was lucky enough to speak with Randy Anderson on the phone a couple of times a few years ago and he said to me and I quote "What you guys are doing there is too hard"
I had asked him to come and hunt he said nothing personal it is just not worth the effort per coyote.
I think this area is tough and it helps me be the best woodsman I can be. Some day I will try those western dogs and if they are easy I just might stay for a while. :wink:
Quotethink it's possible that we can have a lot more coyotes over here than most folks think?
I totally believe thats the way it is around here. A good friend of mine traps, and the same spots we both call and not see a coyote he catches them trapping. The sign is all there, they very seldom present themselves in the open while calling IMO.
edit to add: The houndsman also get pretty good numbers, usually somewheres between 30-50 coyote pending on the year.
I think we have allot more coyotes than what people think as well. Being in the nuisance work I get a ton of calls on coyotes in the city limits and also on farms (sheep and goat) I never new we had that much trouble around the area. Just got a call today from a farmer on coyotes.
I don't think our population is close to what they have out west in good areas. But I also believe we call allot more coyotes than we ever see for sure here in the east. Coyote populations out west are good in some areas and other areas suck, just depends on allot of things. The old theory that there is one behind every bush or you just walk out set down any were and call one just is not true. Maybe in some areas out west but no all by no means.
Someone posted about the trappers. Thats a real good way to gauge your population. I use my trapping logs allot to pick calling areas. I can call one area and not do nothing, set traps in there and double up. But traps work 24 hr, 7 days a week. As to were calling you maybe calling when they are not even in the area.
And we are also dealing with new hunters here in the east. Calling pressure is going up and more callers in the woods. And we still have the guys that shoot every coyote the see in site! I got some areas if you stop the truck, they will run before you roll to a stop! Other areas they will just Stand there and look then walk off or go back to what they are doing.
All and all. Here in my area we don't come close to the numbers they have out west. But thats here, other areas maybe allot better and more populated depending on what part of the east your in.
Several things play into all this. Numbers, terrain, pressure, and allot of other variables. Land to call is a big one here in the east. Its not like that in AZ were we hunted. I maybe able to hunt 50 acers in a coyotes territory here and thats it due to small farms out in AZ odds are I can move down the road and call again. I just cant do that here.
But from what I have seen over the years the population here in my area is doing very well, and gets better every year. I think it will get better and better as time goes on!
Brent
Thanks to all who replied. A lot of info there to re-read. :wink:
Brent I agree with you there are several dogs in this area, but they get alot of pressure put on them. I hunted one spot I thought was a good spot only to find out one of my buddies that I met later was hunting in the same area. Coyotes reproduce every year and the numbers are getting better and better every year. You might go out and call one area only to find out that Joe Smoe had just been there earlier that day. But like you said the numbers are getting better for the hunters.
Add in what Jay said about the new guys that think it's easy & quits after a few times of not playing the wind or approaching incorrect & that will make it harder too. Personally I have no idea how many others are calling the same ground I do. I do know the amish run them with dogs on one part of a large farm I hunt. I think if you're in an area like that the coyotes tend to move more frequently than they would otherwise. JMO