Do you guys approve? This one is loooong, but worth it. (Guild related)

[Coulter]

As my Technical Writing Professor would say, "Get right to the point (argument), then fill in the blanks." I opted to post this thread in the common duck, turkey and predator boards in an effort to not "leave anybody out of the loop".

As we all know the Guild is supposed to be all about diversity in callmaking and collecting. So far that has not become very apparent. It seems that the Guild is moving backward, when it should be moving forward. Here is a portion of a message I received from an individual regarding this issue...

Quote 1 & 2
"I understand that there aren't many call makers from other types of calls in the Guild, but when they have rules for contest that don't address other call makers, it is going to be kind of hard to attract them."

"This boils down to a leadership and forward thinking issue.  I see neither in the guild.   They have blinders on, and can't seem to understand that their very actions are   alienating the other call makers because of it."

Some of the message was omitted to protect the individual anonymity. I believe that the above messages are worthy of the Guild's attention, and deserves a timely response from the Board of Directors. If one individual is feeling slighted, how many more members are out there that don't want to stir the pot? Surely, we will be losing them when their membership expires.

Let me fill in some blanks now by giving a little of my own background info here. I am 35 years old and happily married with 3 great children. I currently work full time in an engineering dept., as well as attend college full time. I also work for the Pennsylvania Game Commission as a Deputy Wildlife Conservation Officer. This job obviously gets busier during hunting and trapping season. I am not complaining about my hectic schedule, after all I created it. On top of all of the above, I try to make time to turn a few calls and spend some time with my family. I offered to take on the task of creating a newsletter, but I refuse to be a part of any minor squabbles in the process...and yes they are minor squabbles in my eyes.

I began my call making ventures in early 2006 with the intention of making duck calls. Well, I discovered CCO and began purchasing the seemingly endless necessities to produce quality calls. My call making skills have come a long way, and admittedly they are certainly still developing. Heck, I hope they will always be developing. Nevertheless, I began making turkey calls and have since branched into duck, deer, predator, crow, and hope to begin work on goose calls this summer. I enjoy making and using all of these calls.

As some of you know my first passion has been trapping for quite some time. I served as Director for District one of the Pennsylvania Trappers Association for approximately 6 years. During my tenure, I organized nationally recognized events; numerous gun raffles and other fund raisers, as well as a newsletter. I did all of this as a volunteer, as some of you guys do in other organizations. I am currently a life member of the Pennsylvania Trappers and Arizona Trappers Associations, along with numerous other yearly memberships of various organizations, including CCCG and CCCA.

With all of that being said, you all now know who I am and what I am about. I do not intend to tip-toe amongst eggshells when I make posts regarding the Guild any longer. My efforts to not offend the "overly sensitive types" have been curtailed. I believe in saying what is on my mind and if this offends some of you...well, maybe you should quit reading this post now. I understand some messages are taken out of context, but it seems like everything I type is misconstrued. I am not the politically correct type, actually I despise that term in its entirety. I am not a conformist and I have no intention of ever becoming one. If my methods of conduct are reprehensible then I am certainly not the individual you want taking charge of this newsletter.

My first question, one that I also believe deserves a timely response is – How does the Guild intend to make call makers and collectors (other than turkey) feel more welcome? The Guild is widely perceived as being dominated by "turkey guys". Is there any plan to encourage more participation from other branches of call making and collecting? It seems that I am the only one trying to encourage guys that are not in the turkey business. Where is the outreach from the Guilds leadership to other types of call makers and collectors?

After beginning work on this newsletter, I have been accused of dropping people out of the loop, just because I didn't have an immediate task at hand to give. I qualified my response and informed this person I would get back to him as soon as I found something that needed done. I don't understand how this can be perceived as dropping an individual from the loop and not letting him be involved. Furthermore, it blows my mind how this person, had already done a newsletter for the Guild (I never received one myself). But the Guild decided to take me up on my offer without ever mentioning this fact. Why is that? Why was it my responsibility to contact this person and inform him that the Guild has accepted an offer from somebody else to publish a newsletter? There was a distinct lack of communication on the Guilds behalf, but I am faulted for that? I don't get it. I never knew anybody even made an attempt at putting together a newsletter, other than what the CCAA has helped the Guild with.

Quote 3
"My concerns were based on literally no info since the one pager went out 8-9 months ago...At this point I am unsure as to who the committee chair is these days. There seems to be a basic lack of info."

I not only offered my services as editor / publisher to the Guild in an effort to jump-start this newsletter, I also offered financial backing until sufficient funds could be raised. My financial support was not coming from some discount that I receive through a printer. In fact, I anticipate paying full price as anybody else would...out of my own pocket for printing and postage. Please understand when I find a cause that appears to be worthwhile, I tend to jump headfirst into the pool...unfortunately, the water can prove to be fairly shallow at times. I am not asking for recognition for anything either, I am simply putting facts together. The point I am trying to make here is this – when somebody offers you something free of charge...do you ask for more? I have no problem making this newsletter into what the Guild wishes. I have asked for input and received it from a few individuals. However, in order to accommodate some of the suggestions other areas of the newsletter would be affected. Is 16 pages of free, labor intensive work not sufficient? For an organization being offered something of this magnitude free of charge and ask for more is ludicrous. Granted, I have no problem adding additional pages, when the Guild is footing the bill. I consider myself a generous person, but a line needs to be drawn somewhere. After all, my last name ain't Trump or Gates.

Quote 4
"I think the first issue could be a little fatter, if we have the content and the classifieds pay
the bills."

Lastly, I am able to incorporate some time into my schedule for creating a fantastic newsletter; however, when I encourage others to help in the hope they will become a member I am told that they cannot take charge of a particular section until they become a member. Well, I thought I made it clear on the Guild section of CCO that we need help from waterfowl and predator guys to get this thing going. I got no response from either group there, so I felt it was necessary to solicit help elsewhere.  I am not saying that these guys are not willing to help; I am saying that they just aren't there in significant numbers. How many Guild members are waterfowl guys or predator call guys anyway? I know the pool isn't real large to choose from. For an organization that is still in its infancy, you would think that it would be a bit less selective on where the help comes from. Let me ask this question...will those that submit articles for a particular section have to be a member as well? If so, you are limiting yourself tremendously and the Guild will never be as diverse as it claims to be.

I suppose I have a different opinion on what the term leadership means. I am all about hearing what the membership wants and doing my best to see that it happens while also encouraging others to get involved – members or not. This is one way to gain new members – by allowing those that aren't members to get involved and see what they are getting into first. If they don't like the way things roll, then they have the option not to join and you'll probably never hear from them again. 

Quote 5
"The hardest part of any leadership role is making people feel like they belong and are important."

When exactly does this plan come into effect for those other than turkey guys?

Quote 6, 7 & 8
"Here's my point -
Everything I have seen since joining, which gave me access to the top secret super sensitive national security section of CCO otherwise known as the Guild Area confirms what was written months ago on CCO about the Guild.   Now the news letter title, and the general attitude of the leadership, the members, leads me to believe that since I don't make turkey calls, that there really isn't any room, and reason, and any advantage to being a member of the guild."

"Make no mistake; I think there are some of the best call makers in the world in the guild, and some of the nicest people you would ever want to meet.  The fact of the matter though, is that it is an organization founded by, for and of Turkey Hunters.   All others may join, but in the end, if you are not a turkey call makers you are "miscellaneous". 

"Even when all the polls were going on for the name of the news letter, with suggestions like The Clean Slate - not one officer or committee member stepped up and said "hey guys, we need a name that will represent all call makers, not just turkey calls makers".

If you guys recall, I was the only one to mention this regarding the Guilds logo. Please don't take any offense to this Mr. Constantine, it is a great logo; but the turkey aspect drowns out the validity of the Guild truly being about diversity and all aspects of call making and collecting.
Well it seems that I have failed to keep my cynicism under control. I hope this post has not been an exercise in futility; I look forward to seeing some productive responses from our BOD and others. I have spoken my peace; I do not plan to respond any further to this thread for at least a few days. I have taken up my share of space. If there are responses directed to me, please don't feel that I am ignoring you. I would prefer to let this thread run its course for a few days and get a better understanding of how the Guild is perceived by members, as well as non-members.

[Coulter]

I haven't posted this on CCO yet, but plan to do so this evening. As soon as I figure out a way to get around the 5500 character allotment per post I have to cut this thing in half somehow

[THO Game Calls]

Parting tool maybe?


Just trying to help - I'll go away now.

AL
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com

[Todd Rahm]

Well I just get my membership/ticket and get on the boat, just in time to see the iceberg.  :roflmao:

I'm kidding Steve. I fully expect ya to be foreward and unpolitcally correct. I have viewed the forum, and while I don't see a lot for other calls yet, I'm not going to blame it on the Guild. Its in its infancy and its our job as collectors and makers to spread the word. I purchased a year membership to see how she floats and if she floats good, I'm becoming a life member. I have already contacted quite a few call makers, and will continue to do so.

As long as you and your fellow boardies continue to do your part on keeping it diverse, I'll keep supporting it.

[FinsnFur]

Steve, Do you guys have a board of directors, or is like one guy at the helm ok'ing things...or how exactly does that work over there?

I mean no offense by not actually going over there and participating, I've just got too full of a plate with things on my end.
But it sounds like not enough people are being brought together, eye to eye sorta speak,  during the layout of some of the ventures.

Is the person your quoting an active member?....is he part of the behind the scenes action? Maybe he fills cut from the congress if he is.

[THO Game Calls]

This was posted in three forums on CCO -

so far - ithere is ONE reply.

It is rather embarassing for Guild members

Al

THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com

[Todd Rahm]

So where do predator calls fall in all this now? Or do they?

[THO Game Calls]

We'll have to wait and see what Preston says - but I really feel like I just voted in a presidential election.   The promisses of yesterday don't necessarily reflect what is going to happen today.

Or tomorrow.


AL
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com

[Todd Rahm]

Well anyway Steve, your the only fella that showed some hope and was forward with us. If ya need me support ya just let me know, and If I need to back out, let me know.

I'd really like to see this thing grow.

[Coulter]

There is a board of Directors for the Guild,  but guess what - you have to be a member to know who they are.  :roflmao: this info is listed in the Super Secret Guild section of CCO. I believe everything is accomplished via teleconferencing, which is understandable given the varying locality of board members. I was quoting multiple people in that post. Some are board members, some are regular members. You might know one or two of them even,  But I posted some with permission and promised anonymity, others were quoted without permission, mainly because they would have never consented anyway, but I will still stick to the anonymity for them.

Al, There are 17 posts over in the general discussion area since Preston relocated everything. Hang in there with me and chime in over there where it really counts at this point. The boat hasn't sunk yet. If you guys want predator calls, and other call other than turkey to be equal in this Guild, now is the time to make that known. Al and Todd you're both members, you guys should have as much say in what happens with the guild as anybody at this point.

Todd -  I feel that I owe you an apology after talking you into joining and then dropping an bomb on the Guild.

There are some board members speaking out over there - Omulcagee Ogre, Dave Constantine, and maybe some others that I don't recognize by there CCO names.

Preston sent me a PM and told me he would be posting on this sometime today, and he would also deal with me "Post-haste" with the rest of the board. Stick to your guns guys, I appreciate the support from all of you. But don't back down yet. Lets see where this thing rolls first.

Steve

[THO Game Calls]

Preston has been on and off CCO all day long, yet he has not replied to the thread. 

The real killer for them was Wade's post where as a moderator of CCO, he was not even aware of the hidden Guild area.

I can assure you that had I known about the rules for the decrative and field call competition, I would have never joined.  I got BSed by them all, and fell for it hook line and sinker.  I really think that this is going to be the end of the guild as we know it.  I bet it becomes the Custom Turkey Call Makers Guild when this is over.

Al

[Coulter]

Al you ain't gonna make this easy for me are ya. I just had a long heart to heart with Preston on the landline. He has posted over on CCO. I can't say I am happy about the wording of it, But I am sure he felt the same about my post. He will be posting something else on there this evening.

Please consider this...the only way that it is going to become a turkey dominated organization is if all of the predator and waterfowl guys sit back and let it. I cannot keep pushing the predator aspect by myself. I need all of you guys to jump in on this. You don't have to be a member to mpost in the general discussion area. Al, at this point the only predator call guys the Guild really has any info is you, Todd and myself. We need more of you to speak up if you want to be included in the Guilds plans. I am trying to convince the Guild to open up the secret area to non-members for viewing only. At least they will know what is transpiring within the Guild. Right now, the BOD considers me a loose canon, but I haven't been fired....yet

[THO Game Calls]

I sent Preston a Personal Message.  I told him I was disapointed in his response and that if I had known what the rules for the decrative and field calls were prior to joining, I would not have joined.

I told Preston that I hoped he did not expect me to supprt the Guild if the Guild was not going to support the calls I make.

Hot air is hot air Steve.  Preston is either blowing hot air or he has taken the job of President of the Guild to simply have it on his resume' as he obviously has no clue or any interest in how the Guild veiws anyone who does not make turkey calls.

He did not even address that in his post tonight.   

As for his statement about what you get when you join, a hat, pin and something else, I can tell you that the only three things I got for joining the guild were a canceled check, the CCCG Member logo next to my name on CCO and a little egg on my face for the post I made here about the Guild.

The sad hard facts are:

Most of the predator call makers could care less about the Guild,

and the Duck call guys have the CCAA

Sooooooo.......this whole thing has been like tying to teach a pig to sing.  It waste your time and anoys the hell out of the pig.


Al

[quackerstacker]

so..... have you given up on ccaa?

steve

[Coulter]

If your asking me Steve...no I haven't. I am still a member and will continue to be, I hope your able to talk them into a predator call category.

Steve

[quackerstacker]

sorry steve, was directed towards al (in a friendly manner), in regards to  "and the Duck call guys have the CCAA". im trying to get it directed towards everyone.  as for you steve, my hats off to you for all the effort you have put into promoting the guild. guess we share a commonality, we both have a passion for promoting something we believe in. maybe we all should start a org. for predator calls.

steve

[THO Game Calls]

No, I have not given up on the CCAA - and I am finsihed hashing this out.   It isn't worth it any more.

Al

[Ladobe]

I pretty much agree with "Most of the predator call makers could care less about the Guild".    That decribes my feelings about it fairly well.   The turkey and waterfowl call builders have looked down their noses at predator call builders for decades.   Understandable in part I guess because they have both been around a long time and predator calling never really came of age until recently (except for a few of us old pharts thats been doing it for decades).   But for a long time my calls, and a lot of those from the new spinners don't take a back seat to any turkey or waterfowl call made, either in craftsmanship or sounds produced.   If the Guild wants predator call builders to support it, it needs to change its program in a big way and get some predator oriented folks on the BOD.

L.