Seattle Mayor Seeks Gun Ban

[FinsnFur]

The mayor of Seattle has decided to assault the rights of law-abiding citizens who own legal handguns. He has issued an executive order prohibiting citizens from bringing their firearms onto city property.

Mayor Greg Nickels issued the order back in June.  The executive order, which did not require city council approval, called on city employees to draft administrative rules creating a "gun-free policy" on city property.  Those policies are now set for a December 15 public hearing after which the policy will become effective once signed by all relevant city officials.

In the meantime, controversy surrounding the proposal prompted state legislators to seek an opinion from the Washington state Attorney General, Rob McKenna, on the legality of the Mayor's proposal.  That opinion was offered on October 13 and explicitly said that state law"preempts a city's authority to enact local laws that prohibit possession of firearms on city property or in city-owned facilities." 

While attorney general opinions are technically non-binding, they have generally been assigned great weight by Washington state courts.  Despite this, the opinion evidently has not dissuaded the Mayor from pursuing the ban.

According to Rick Story, Senior Vice President of the U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance (USSA), "we don't want to start going down a slippery slope where a city decides that it can disregard state law. You never know where that can end up, but it's unlikely to be a good place."

(credit goes to US Sportmens Alliance)

[blacky]

Isn't this the same state where the Governor is allowing atheists to post anti-religion signs beside the Nativity Scene? is it any wonder this country is in the shape it is in????????

[possumal]

Jim, when the say "City property", are they talking about municipal buildings only or are they talking about the city limits period?

[FinsnFur]

I'm not for certain Al. It does leave a lil vagueness don't it.

[KySongDog]

Jim, when the say "City property", are they talking about municipal buildings only or are they talking about the city limits period?

I am pretty sure they are talking about city owned property and not privately owned property within the city limits. 

[possumal]

I would think that Semp has the right slant on this.  I know that here in Kentucky, Lexington in particular, you can legally have a concealed weapons permit, but you can't wear it into city hall, Rupp arena, and places like that.

[Bopeye]

The mayor of Seattle has decided to assault the rights of law-abiding citizens who own legal handguns. He has issued an executive order prohibiting citizens from bringing their firearms onto city property.

Aren't roads city property? What about sidewalks, mass transit such as subways? How about City parks?

Just took a class and Test today for a Tennessee Handgun Carry permit. The laws are absolutely stupid. If I want to go into a restaurant such as Red Lobster, Ruby Tuesday, Applebees, etc. not only do I have to leave my gun in the car, but I also can't park my car in their parking lot because they serve alcohol. What the heck is the use of carrying a gun if you can't carry the gun? 

[possumal]

Bop, that's what I'm talking about.  You can use your permit to carry your gun, concealed, in your vehicle and on the streets to protect yourself and your family, but you can't just carry it anyplace you want to.  There are cases where you could need it but you aren't allowed to carry it in some of those places, like when some nut jerks out a gun in a public restaurant and comes in to rob the joint.  I can see not being allowed to carry it into court and municipal buildings and public places like Rupp Arena.  I guess it is a give and take deal. They can't invite a shootout in any public place.  It is kind of a difficult matter to work out the details on.

[Frogman]

possumal,
     Please help me understand this quote from your post above, "They can't invite a shootout in any public place."  Are you suggesting that allowing a law abiding citizen who has undergone a background check and has a ccw permit to carry in a public place is inviting a shootout??     Just because you are carrying a gun doesn't mean you intend to start a shootout.  No one should even know you are carrying!!  The firearm is a last resort to be used only when your life or the life of a loved one is threatened!!  As a ccw instructor I give this stuff a lot of thought.  I feel that people with ccw permits are not the problem, but they could very well be the solution!!  Here in WV we can carry pretty much anywhere, with the exception of schools or school events, Federal buildings, court houses, Sherrifs office, State Police office, and places that post a "no guns allowed" sign.  There are very few "no guns allowed signs" and our law simply states that if the owner of the property discovers you are carrying he can ask you to leave.  If you do not leave then you can be arrested for trespassing.    I really can't remember the last time I saw one of these signs.  WV is a very gun friendly state, thank God! 
     If any of you would like more info on ccw check out this great forum  http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/.


Jim

[possumal]

Jim, that is more or less the way it is down here. I am just pointing out that laying out the regulations is involved.  I don't think legally licensed fellows and gals are the problem either, but they are never going to let anybody carry concealed weapons into buildings like you mentioned.  It is not Dodge City anymore like in the old days.  A lot of people think that legal people ought to be able to carry concealed weapons anywhere which obviously is not going to happen, and I doubt it should. I am not suggesting that legal people are the problem at all, but I am saying the legislation is very involved.

[KySongDog]

Personally, I think we all get too hung up on the "rules".  The only places I don't carry concealed is the places with a metal detector at the front door.   

The key word is "concealed".  No one should ever know you are carrying a weapon.  That means no "printing" of the gun or holsters peaking out from your shirt, visible shoulder holster straps, etc.   

[Frogman]

I guess I agree with you Semp,  "The only places I don't carry concealed is the places with a metal detector at the front door."  Even though as a ccw instructor I shouldn't be quoted as saying so.  I have to tell my students what the law is and suggest they follow it.  "Do as I say, not as I do."  The number of permits that have been revoked in all the states that have "shall issue" ccw laws is so infinitesimal (did I spell that right?) as to be inconsequential.  We are all adults and should be capable of making good decisions.  Ccw is a very big responsibility.  I admit that I carry just about everywhere, like you said, "that doesn't have a metal detector".  Legal or not I have decided that I would rather be, "Tried by 12, than carried by six".  Everyone looks at this issue in different ways.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised when everyone doesn't see it my way.  That is why these discussions are so important because they make us think!!
   By the way, my classes have been full since the election.  Making a little extra for LBL!!!

   Possumal, thanks for your reasoned response, I was hoping my post above would not upset you.  "A lot of people (I guess I'm one of them) think that legal people ought to be able to carry concealed weapons anywhere which obviously is not going to happen, and I doubt it should."  Maybe we will just have to "agree to disagree on this one.

Jim

[possumal]

Jim, it didn't upset me at all.  The whole idea of the thread is to discuss the subject.  I wouldn't want to be guilty of breaking the law, even if I don't agree with it 100%.  All of us here know it is not guys like us that cause problems, but that doesn't take away the fact that there are those who cause bad problems.

[vvarmitr]

In my book, places, public & private, that don't allow you to have your CCW are accomplices to murders. 
Remember Virgina Tech. Students who had their CCW were not allowed to have their guns in the school building thus making 33 of them live, hopeless,  defenceless, targets of a crazed murder!    Those idiots who made that ruling for the students "safety" should be tryed as accomplices to the murder who actually was the only one they made safe.
What a different story it would have been had they been allowed to have their personal protection on them! 

[Frogman]

vvarmiter,
    +1

Jim

[Frogman]

Just wait til a couple of terrorists shoot up a couple of schools where they know that no one is armed.  As a former teacher for 35 years I'm really kind of surprised that this has not happened yet.  If it does attitudes might start to change??  I think Texas has already had a bill up that would allow properly trained teachers carry concealed.  I don't know what become of that legislation, but at least someone is thinking about it.

Adults like the ones I train in my ccw classes who have lived their entire lives with no criminal records would not be a problem if they carried in any public place.  They don't just turn into criminals because they have a firearm.  John Lott's book, More guns, less crime uses statistics from the FBI crime report and crime statistics from the states to prove that those states who have adapted shall issue ccw laws have seen a reduction in violent crime.  Criminals interviewed in prison say the thing they fear most is the armed citizen.  As I said in my earlier post, I feel "ccw is the solution, not the problem".

http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/

Jim

[Bopeye]

In my book, places, public & private, that don't allow you to have your CCW are accomplices to murders. 
Remember Virgina Tech. Students who had their CCW were not allowed to have their guns in the school building thus making 33 of them live, hopeless,  defenceless, targets of a crazed murder!    Those idiots who made that ruling for the students "safety" should be tryed as accomplices to the murder who actually was the only one they made safe.
What a different story it would have been had they been allowed to have their personal protection on them! 

+2

I've carried for a long time. I just decided to make it legal by getting my concealed carry. Hopefully it will make it a little more difficult for the Obamanites to come against my legal use of owning my AR or my 1911.
Obama already said he thought only police and military should have pistols. That's a recorded fact.
He also wants to get rid of "Assault weapons". I own an AR, but it's a semi-automatic. No more an assault weapon than a semiautomatic Browning 270.  I don't understand our liberal opponents at all.