Howling

[Troy Walter]

I was wondering why coyotes howl in some areas and not others.I guess it is for safety but a few places I hunt are less then 20 minutes apart and in one place you will here them and others you won't.

[FinsnFur]

First thing I'd want to know is if there are actually coyotes in the OTHER area. How do you know there is?

The other thing to keep in mind is Coyotes dont run around and howl all over the place. The OTHER place you refer too may very well belong to the group your hearing, but it's a bedding area or something.

[keekee]

Good question. I wish I had a answer for you, but coyotes are just coyotes. We can only hope to understand as much about them as we can and most of that is just opinion or theory.

There could be several reasons. Those coyotes could have Territorial boundary's that run close together in that area. Or it could be due to pressure. Odds are that they do howl, its just a matter of being there in the area and getting the coyotes in the right place at the right time. Coyotes use howls for communication so odds are they are howling at some point or the other.

If you only 20 minutes away from the other area there is a good chance that it is the same group your hearing. Your just hearing them in there core area.


Brent

[Troy Walter]

There is coyotes in the area that I never hear them because I have shot them in both areas,But the area that I never hear them I also bow hunt for deer and I spend alot of time there and never hear them.but it could be like Kee Kee said they could be howling late at nite.

[MDavis]

they were barking n howling out by the lake the other night. it sounded like a big group of em out there. made the dogs go nuts!

[possumal]

Like Brent posted, we don't know all the answers about the various howls, why they howl at times and not at others, etc., but I am convinced that most of their howling is communicating with either their mate or another pack. "We are over here", "Time to start heading to bed", "I am horny and need a mate", etc..  Anyone who tells you they know exactly what each coyote vocalization means must be a talking coyote (lol).  The threat, bark howl is about the only vocalization that clearly indicates you have either been busted or they are threatening back in response to your howling.  All these other names that famous hunters have given to the various howls is a theory, and not a proven one.  The so called "Female invitational howl" and how you do it as explained on some of the best selling videos doesn't bring any more coyotes in looking for love that just a long, lonesome howl, based on my experience.  They don't always howl back, but they all react in some way.

[Randy Roede]

T4- not sure what part of the country your from etc. but it is not just as simple as going out and howling with a howler and knowing how many and where they are. You will get responses from some but many things have to be considered to get an accurate account of what is actually there.

The time of day or night you howl, are they out hunting or are they in a bedding area. Moon phase will effect this, extreme weather will affect this. Water in the summer, little pups that can't move, mobile pups like now but still pups.

How you howl, listen to coyotes, there is a method to their madness. You will here it once you start listening for it. Coyotes do not always respond by howling they may be responding by coming to your howls if you are in the territory the call home.

Learning to locate from between territorial lines, or neutral ground usually will get more responses. This something that must  be learned out in the field. You may be right on top of coyotes howling and they react by coming in to run off whatever coyote you are trying to be. In essence you made a stand locating and never new it.

Any wind will knock down your locating, calm nights will also fire up coyotes for long distances causing confusion as to exactly where they are. A ten mile an hour wind and coyotes in a rustling cornfield a mile away won't hear you, or coyotes downwind won't be heard by you howling back. Wind in coyotes ears with their hearing causes them to shut it down, imagine the noise it makes with the acute hearing. All the rustling etc. Not to mention they will be down out of it if they can be.

After you gather your locating info you must determine what is worth while etc. to help in your calling. Its not good or bad, any info is good info some is just better than others. Seeing a pattern will become evident in your country and this will make your calling stands more productive.

You may not take it to the levels I have laid out but many  great day of calling has had many hours of locating done before it ever happened. It doesn't mean you must locate every time before you go out, once you get an idea in your country where they are your good to go. You will be surprised where coyotes do show up sometimes though, places you never thought they were in get revealed on a good night of locating.  Randy Roede

[browning204]

Don't coyotes only howl from home turf??  Maybe he hears them in one spot being "home turf" and the other area, even though he has shot them there, maybe is not a home turf. Maybe it is hunting grounds or a travel route?

Or could be the same family group that owns that hole area.

OR, maybe I am just plain wrong!!!!

[Greenside]

Randy, that's a good post. Some people have of a poor understanding of what it takes to get a coyote to hear your howl and also what it takes for you to hear their howl. As you know location,cover,distance, terrain all play a part in vocal responses and the ability for you to locate them. My contention is that most people who have coyote that are nonvocal are just not putting themselves in position to hear them or are too close that they won't respond vocally. It's like spring turkey hunting,  in mid-April with no leaves on the trees or in the understory, you can hear a turkey gobble from a mile away, where as in late may if you hear one gobble you better sit down and kill him. He's probably only a couple hundred yards away

Right now most of our coyote are in the corn. Very difficult to get a howl in there for them to hear, but also extremely hard for a person to hear their howl. We like to drop one person off and then the other drive a mile or so and have one or both howl. One person might hear the coyote that the other can't hear because of the variables. Also a big help in triangulating the exact location.

[Randy Roede]

Greeside yep in Iowa this time of year, cornfields with a water source = coyotes. Good tip for everyone on getting a fix on where they are at, in Iowa with allot of roads sometimes it is hard to know exactly where they are, but with the roads you can move and figure out what section they are in, not a luxury we have here. This all hinges on getting them to howl, maybe more than once. Rustling corn will kill allot of responses, a dead calm night will reveal coyotes you never new were there.

Locating between known coyote holding cover will get the best reaction. Why? It's natural and your coyotes respond to it vocally, it's not to far in and not to far away. Coyotes howl to announce their presence to other coyotes in that area. They do it whether your there or not, only difference is your making them do it when you want.


204 you are assuming coyotes wonder all over the country, it maybe the case where you are but here they have a territory and for the most part they stay in it and so do all the other existing coyotes in that group. At certain times of the year boundaries are crossed but a pup unsure of himself right after dispersal is not going to be very vocal when he hears another coyote. These same pups are looking for their own space and once they find it they tend to be more vocal and sure of themselves,but until then they are pretty timid.

You will learn by what you get in terms of type of howls whether you are dealing with a aggressive territorial pair, a group of coyotes etc. all are called accordingly. Information many do not use.

[Greenside]

Right now in my area, knowing which section they are in might not even be enough, you might even have to get it down to which quarter of which quarter section in order to have much success. Down ti a gnats ass so to speak.

Just to go  and sit in some pasture or hayfield without knowing exactly where they are can be very frustrating and uneventful


When I was a bit more into this summer time calling, sometimes I'd go out at 1 in the morning and locate coyote until around three or so. Then head home, get a few hours of sleep and then go back and shoot a coyote or two. Getting a little to old for that now!  If I didn't make it out for a couple of days I'd have to go out and relocate them.

[browning204]

""204 you are assuming coyotes wonder all over the country, it maybe the case where you are but here they have a territory and for the most part they stay in it and so do all the other existing coyotes in that group. At certain times of the year boundaries are crossed but a pup unsure of himself right after dispersal is not going to be very vocal when he hears another coyote. These same pups are looking for their own space and once they find it they tend to be more vocal and sure of themselves,but until then they are pretty timid.""

Not assuming that but, I was thinking along the lines of, IF those coyotes have a 20 mile territory. They could possibly be the same group.

I was just saying, don't mind me.

[ohiobob]

browning204
Are you typing what the voices in your head are telling you AGAIN ???    This is a VERY INTERESTING Thread to me because God Knows I need to learn more about Corn,,er,,uh,,I mean Howling,,I need to figure out HOW to PLAY the RIGHT TUNE when Locating Coyotes,,well TRYING to locate Coyotes by Howling,,I am ALL CORNFUSED when it comes to this stuff !!!
Bob

[browning204]

when howling at night in my findings, It didn't matter what type of howls I did, I just got a response if coyotes are there.

Then again, I use an E-caller, I will try to use the beautifull howler I got from THO next time.

[keekee]

If I am locating to find coyotes to hunt later, or finding new area to hunt. I like to stick with a Group howl. And stay away from the lone howls. I want a vocal response from them and not a approach. I have better luck with the group howls for locating and run a lower risk of getting a approach. I also try and pick my spot to locate from wisely, this way I can get in and out of the area easy and quite, and even then make sure I got a good wind direction. It don't do no good to try and get a vocal response from them if your wind is blowing right to were they are. I also make sure I take a drive threw the area in the daylight before I locate in that area. This will give you a good idea of the lay of the land.


Brent

[canine]

What's cool about this point and time in the game here, is the pups are giving up their locations. I have been out a few times here lately and found them without even howling. I don't lone howl, I found that alot of barking and a few howls will get a vocal response from them here. It's usually the lead dog throwin a warning at me and then the whole group chimes in with a war cry. That's what I have been experimenting with this year. I do know though, I can always rely on the group yip howl for locating them.

Bob, just keep reading this thread over and over and over and it should sink in.   If not...we'll just have to take ya out and show ya.


JD

[Randy Roede]

204, not sure about numbers etc. in your area but a 20 mile territory would mean low numbers in your area or a 20 mile stretch of less than ideal coyote habitat. 20 miles of prime country with good numbers should hold more than one group, once again not familiar with your area. To me it is a very large territory if indeed that is the case. Possible!

Brent, if you use a group howl always you will be spooking YOY coyotes come dispersal and these coyotes will not respond to the call. Your groups that still are together will sound off but most singles and lower ranking coyotes will move away from a group of coyotes, give them room, not all just some. You can drive coyotes out of some country by locating. Let's just say it is Nov. some YOY are in this block of country you are going to locate in, just got their butts beat by an adult coyote, driven out of the group by ma and pa and maybe sis, now they here another group of coyotes, you, do you think these coyotes will give away their location to possibly get another beatin. Or a young just got together pair in Jan. will be intimidated by a group of coyotes, that sound off , may not, but will be very reluctant to come that way should you try to call them toward where you located from. Old aggressive coyotes in established territories and its all different. When I first started I used group howls exclusively to locate, it would work fine at times, then it would go silent then pickup again, and maybe where you are it works flawlessly, but I would be willing to bet in the fall those YOY you really want to locate because they are the real suckers for calling are not so eager to show you where they are.

Why does a siren work for locating, it's not a group thing, not a challenging thing, its a nonthreatening sound that triggers a vocal response that travels long distances. The further away the more likely to get a vocal response, to far away and humans can't hear it. A siren has long been a coyote locater way before any group locater tape, sounds and sequences put together with a siren can make a difference if your siren is so equipped.

In this wide open country you can visualize what happens, coyotes do come to a group howl on occasion, especially old dominant coyotes willing to run however many off their turf. I've also on rare occasions see them come busting across the pasture to a siren, no black and white in this sport, it's what makes it great!!

There isn't any sure fire always works 100% of the time locater call, it changes from season to season, and from where you make it from in your area, the area you live in, number of coyotes in your area, what I do now to locate coyotes will locate coyotes in Dec. but it will spook some, so I go to a locater that reduces the risk of that but still locates coyotes.

Greenside can locate coyotes in Iowa at three in the morning and still have them there come day light, and I used to live in Iowa  , been there done that, cover is limited etc. it works. Here where the coyotes are at three in the morning may be no where near where they will be come light. Location of coyotes right at sundown or right at sunrise is more important to me, getting them to either respond vocally or visually during daylight is golden. I can eliminate a ton of country and have a plan of attack, wind ,terrain ,etc.

The best part of all this locating is that from now until whenever this information you gather in your area will pay off forever! You may hunt these areas in the future without locating because once you did hear something there and went in to investigate you now have found a honeyhole and it all  makes sense.

This sport ,like most others,you reap what you sew, put the time in the field and absorb what you see and hear and you will do fine. You can watch it and read it but the only way you will learn is to do it in the field!

This is something I use almost every time out, which on average is 150 plus days a year, work or off time. Night and day!

[keekee]

Randy,

I don't locate in hunting season very often, I do all my locating, scouting, and finding new land in the summer and spring. And I wont not say that group howls spook YOY coyotes all the time, I'm sure some of them maybe but not all of them. We howl in several YOY coyotes every year on stands. I think the place you locate from has allot to do with what kind of response you will get. I do my locating to find the areas that hold coyotes, are numbers are not good here and I haft to find the right areas that hold Coyotes. I would rather spook them to a howl than have them show up at my truck and bust me. I understand you saying a satellite coyote may not respond but that's ok. I don't go off just locating to find areas to hunt, sign, sightings, and other things help me pick areas as well.

I am curious as to why you think they would leave there new found territory over one group howl. If they have set up in this territory they have spent some time there. They would know were the territorial boundary's were already by scent marking and other vocalizations from near by groups. And there is always the chance they can loose there territory at anytime, but with low numbers its not likely here in my area. From what I have seen coyotes tend to be less aggressive with trespassing coyotes if there is good food and water and plenty of good ground, other than in denning season, and core areas. More curiosity approach than anything it seems. But this is just my opinion.Other wise you would be able to set down inside there territory and howl or group howl and they would run us over every time. I have also found that yoy coyotes that have had there butts kicked and don't have a solid territory don't answer much at all for fear of giving there location away to local coyotes. Like you said after several butt kicking they get shy, but this will also effect there response to a distress call on a stand, fear in there approach and caution in areas with high coyotes populations. Go into a area with low numbers were a yoy has not been pressured by other coyotes and they are likely to charge in with out thought to a distress call.


The group yep howls do appeal to older coyotes more. Well, I should say coyotes that have established territory's. That's part of why they respond so well to them. The threat of another group of coyotes in or near there territory or moving threw there territory.

Sirens work here in some areas and some they do not. I hunt allot of urban areas that sirens go off several times a day and night. They get use to them so to speak. They will still howl at them but not like they do to a group yip howl. I would recommend a siren to guys that can get them to go vocal to them.


Brent

[Randy Roede]

Brent if you are in low number areas coyotes will change locations for whatever reasons easier than in country with high numbers, not rocket science. The give and take will be much different.

Differences in numbers and country are things each individual has to deal with, I didn't say you can't howl in a YOY in Nov. you can ,it's that you will spook some of them, not all ,some, and yea those YOY coyotes maybe reluctant to check out distress but they usually will check it out, not always but for the most part. The point being, what was the advantage of howling in that time frame. . Not to mention the fact that I still have an ace in the hole, howling, to work in this country later, like mating season, and pup in distress on a return trip. If I get weather extremes in the winter and times are hard well distress jumps to the head of the class again. Unless a person has endless acres and never needs to call in the same country again .

A young pair, first time partners, in Jan. not quite sure of things, have a territory but just , they may move than risk an encounter with a group of coyotes, this is why I feel a group locater has some disadvantages,a single howl or a siren is allot less threatening. If you can only get coyotes to answer with group howls well then your stuck. I did not mean they would leave for good but till they realize the danger is no longer present. Although possible.

If like you said coyotes are more territory sharing there, I would think howling would be even less effective. Howling is usually most effective in a well established and defended territory. I guess I am not sure because you say they are tolerant and then not when in the core area? From what I see a dominant coyote is that pretty much that, wherever he goes and whatever he does. Once again what I see.

Sirens as you stated my point exactly nonthreatening, singular, and there is a method to it's madness.

I am curious that your locating in spring and summer holds till fall and winter, here when raising young they are tied to a nearby water source, then some type of shade with a water source as pups are more mobile,  harvest,then the hunting season starts and some get moved, and then prey sources dictate where thy will be. Territories change here, sometimes not very far sometimes quite a distance. Denning areas and wintering areas are way different! They may not be where you are.

[canine]

Where I am from, the coyotes territories are so confined by roads, towns and houses that one really doesn't need to locate by howling. Plus after many years of hunting the same areas over and over, I know where they are, that's how limited there space is here.

As far as group yip howling to them, I look at it like calling that given spot. It's not something we'd do on a day to day basis. To the point of driving the insecure out. I know out west where there are limited roads, towns, houses and such and very different habitats within acres and acres of land, locating where they are at certain times of the year would be important. For us, come hunting season, there is no need to locate them as these areas are so limited and there locations do not change like they would if they had acres and acres of land to roam and follow food sources.

Randy, when you do howl to locate, what howl are you using?

JD