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Another member of NHW&W and I Hooked up this morning to do some calling. He met me down my way and we did a couple of stands where I had seen some activity before. NOTHING.

So we make a plan to go up his way where he said he has been busted by coyotes many times. He told me that they howl and bark and get all weird with him. I think, thats weird, never heard of easterns getting vocal during the day!

So we go up to his spot and we scout around for a bit. Scat everywhere!

We get our gear and head into the woods, set down and do a couple series of bunny blues, NUTHIN!

I switch over to howls and within 20 seconds the woods lights up with howls like there were 100 of them bad boys in there! I was like HOLY CRAP!  :shck:

So long story short, these coyotes are howling, moving, howling, moving for about an hour. We called them in from close to a mile away to right on top off us. These things wouldn't stop, even when both my partner  and I had to get up to get the blood flowing and take a leak. This went on for an hour.

We could see quick flashes of fur but nothing we could get a shot at.

We decided to give it a rest and go back to the truck for some heat and make a new plan. Our new plan was to go back in but move closer to where the Howling started.

So we do that, set down hit the Howls and WHAM, howls back but much closer. Again we go back and forth. They howl, we howl, they move and howl, we howl on and on for another while.

A couple times I looked over at my partner and he had his gun to his shoulder because they where getting very close. I look back straight ahead and WOOF, this coyote barks at the back of my head, if he was more than 10 feet from me then He was three miles. I darn near Jumped outta my skin!

After a little while more it started to get dark so we packed up.
That was an awesome experiance, we just got to figure out why they never showed themselves. I hope we can hook up and do it again.

p.s. any ideas why they got so vocal and moved alot but never came to the caller? I used all different types of vocalizations, all of them triggered a vocal response but none would come in closer than they did. (except that one who scared me!)

That sounds like a real cool experience. I hope you figure them out and nail one or two. Good luck :biggrin:

 :shck:  Glad to hear that backdoor dog kept his distance & just barked!!

That would be soooooo cool tho!!


Well,,,, after I cleaned up that is!! :innocentwhistle: :roflmao:

 :wo: :confused:  Were your scent blockers full after that?? :shrug:


:roflmao: :roflmao: :laugh2: :laugh2: :thumb2:

no I didn't poo myself. It caused me to jump a little bit and turn my head. Now I know this is a debateable subject but, after hearing these for a couple hours, we could tell the younger ones from the older ones. The older ones had that deep chest howl. Some of these sounded BIG.

I have a couple of ideas for the next time we call that spot. First I wanna hear ideas of why these coyotes howled and moved howled and moved. Why not go to the sound source and get shot?

p.s. Last snow that we had showed lotsa Cat tracks, we can't hunt cats :argh:

 :laf: :laf: Just messin with you some. :biggrin:

I know

You might have been close to a boundary or territorial line Browning.
The fact that it went on for an hour has me stumped though. Normally if they'd get close enough to make you out, they'd be gone.

I dont want you to think I'm doubting you, and I'm certainly no professional, but are you sure it wasn't like a warning type situation? Where they made you out and were warning the others.

Sounds like you guys had a blast and was pumped by all the vocal and close coyotes. I know I would have been. I have had this happen a few times (not 10 feet) but it has been along time. They would usually stay 40 or so yards out through the thickets.

This is one of the reasons I quit hunting coyotes in the late afternoon. Seems as they would hang up and ghost in an out howling and yelping waiting for darkness. Sometimes they would appear right at dark and I aint no shadow shooter.If they are unsure why come on in when they can wait for darkness were they have an advantage. The one may have came in from behind sizing you up if he thought you were another coyote or they saw you as a threat and tried to push you out..

Once the coyote came in to your back side and then they continued being vocal I would think they were more on the lines of what Jim was stating a warning, push you out of the area type thing. Of course I am no coyote behavioralist ether I just like callin them and shootin them.

"He told me that they howl and bark and get all weird with him."
Bop and I ran into a couple of coyotes like that last year @ LBL.  :argh:
I know Jimmie in Ky has been there also.

"... where he said he has been busted by coyotes many times."
I would bet that group has had some real bad experiences with two legged rabbits in the past.

Educated coyotes can be killed but it will more than likely take something a little different.
I feel caller/shooter tactics will be the key factor for success in a situation like this. Sometimes an ambush works well. The person calling sets up aways behind the shooter (who is downwind 50-75 yards or so into the woods).The idea here is to head off the approaching coyote(s) before they get close to the caller.  The most important thing is to never shoot in each others direction, always know where the other person is at all times. We set up no shooting zones.  A scatter gun also works pretty well for close in woodland settings.   
Learning the lay of the land (from which direction the coyotes are most likely to come from) and knowing the prevailing wind direction are both major factors that help make this type of set up work.

I don't know if this will help you in your area but it has payed off for me here.   :wink:
 

You have all the tools needed to master this situation. 

Set your e caller up 50 to 75 yards from you, sneak back and get up in your tree stand about 20 or so feet.

I imagine that one of the problems you are facing is that your calling partner has been hitting this area hard because he knows there are coyotes there.  This is teaching them.   An other problem you might be facing is thermals.   What is the elevation of the terrain like where you are hunting?   Are they coming from a high area or a deep woods area?  What's at your back?  Woods, fields, swamp?  High ground?  Are you setting up in a low area?   Or a high area?  Prevailing winds in NH are from the west.  In the last month, our winds have been from the south west and north east because of the storms.   If the wind aint right, you'll lose the fight. 

Finally, listen to the coyotes.   What are they teaching you?   If you don't hear them much in the day time in NH, then why would you go out and make a coyote party with your e caller?  It's not natural to them, and they know it, so it makes them wary.  I would hit it with one or two howls and then shut up and watch and listen.   If they are there, chances are very good they will come to investigate.  Don't think they haven't heard you.   They have.   Over calling can spook them as much as smelling your or seeing you.

Often times when we walk into the woods, we bring our domestic lives with us.  Slow down.  Become a part of the environment you are in.   Leave your world behind and try to become part of theirs.  That may sound mystical and silly, but if you do things that are natural to the coyotes, and allow them to do what comes naturally to them, you stand a much better chance of killing them.  When you try to force them, or try to make them do things that they normally would not do, more often than not, you will come away empty handed. 

I think this is what hunters mean when they say that "set up" is the most important thing.  Being able to look at the terrain, judge the wind, and make an educated guess as to what the coyote is going to do in his natural state and then setting up to allow him to do what comes naturally allows the coyote a semblance of comfort.  It is that small amount of comfort that is often his demise.  When you take him out of his comfort zone, his senses become much more acute, and he is on higher guard and much tougher to kill. 

AL

we are gonna try that "ambush" set-up next time as well as me bringing my tree climber.

To answer Al's question.

The woods are thick, Hard and soft wood with alot of Hemlock in there. We where setting up with our backs to the access road looking Down into the woods. we sat about 25 yards from each other with my partner looking 90 degrees of me. We kept the caller close to us because lack of clear shooting room.
Any coyotes responding would have to come UP towards us. We stayed on high ground. The wind was crossing right to left. Barely moving.

The thing with these coyotes is, they would respond to my howls, and if I stopped then they would also but then they would start again a couple minutes later as if they wanted to chat. Distress sounds where pretty much ineffective. While howling and barking, they always moved. close then far and would circle us. They very interested in us. I would think that if they had us made, they would just go away.

Like I said, weirdst behavior I have seen in my short coyote hunting life. Usually they either come of not.

oh ya, Next time we go there I am gonna bring my video camera, even if I don't get video, I will get some audio.

I had something similar happen to me several years ago in Connecticut.  The woods were so loaded with scat and tracks that I knew I would get a response to my calling.  I did, but, just like you guys I didn't see anything.  The vocalizations were incredible.  All I was using back then was a distress call.  I think this was in 1995.  Someone put me onto this sheep farm that turned out to be more of a sheep "pen".  I eventually hunted all around it in some of the prettiest hardwoods I'd ever seen but I killed nada.  I sure did get excited a few times though.  I'm inclined to ecourage you to go along with the ambush approach usging minimal calling in the future.  If you guys can safely seperate and call just enough to get that pack to survey the area again, perhaps one of you will be able to drop one.  I have no business giving anyone any advice but it sounds good on paper.
JB 

thanks Bluesman

Quote from: coyotehunter_1 on December 04, 2007, 11:14:20 PM
"He told me that they howl and bark and get all weird with him."
Bop and I ran into a couple of coyotes like that last year @ LBL.  :argh:
I know Jimmie in Ky has been there also.

"... where he said he has been busted by coyotes many times."
I would bet that group has had some real bad experiences with two legged rabbits in the past.

<SNIP> 

Hey guys - I'm the one who took Browning to the spot.  Just to give you a heads up, this is like my private sanctuary.  Nobody else hunts back there but me, at least not in the last 5 years or so.  We have 2000 acres of state owned land to the right, another 2000 or so acres behind us, our plot is 375 acres, and on the left is 1000 acres of private land that is posted no hunting.  Altogether, there is about 4000 acres of habitat feeding the 75 acres or so that I hunt.   We have moose, bear, turkey, bobcat by the dozens and a tremendous amount of dogs.  What we don't have a lot of is deer, squirrels or other small mammals because the dogs eat any of them that are foolish to wander into this area.  From what I have been told, nobody has hunted any of these dogs in over 40 years, so it isn't hunting pressure that is causing the problem.

I've made 10 trips this year for the dogs (the one with Browning was the 10th).  The second trip was the most exciting as one entire pack of dogs snuck about 20 feet behind me and all went off at once, howling and barking non-stop for about 2-3 minutes, then they ran off.   My adrenaline was gushing, my heart thumping, and I thought I was going to be killed.  Stupidly I only had one round in my gun and no extra ammo as I wasn't expecting to get more than one shot before dark that day.  The cover is so thick in this area I couldn't see any (an ongoing problem in this spot).  I only know they were there from the footprints behind me.

Every time I've been out, I can maintain conversations with the dogs all day as long as I use "Hi, how do you do" calls and not challenge calls.  I can talk to them any time of day, any day of the month, etc.  They are always available.  Other hunters have gone so far as to call me a liar when I tell them this, but though skeptical, Browning never resorted to that type of insult so I took him to the spot.  Now he is a believer   :biggrin:

These dogs are fat, dumb and happy and do not respond at all to prey calls, but sometimes you can lure them close with a wimpy fawn bleat.   As Browning mentioned, there is scat everywhere, and of every type.  You could sort it in piles by type of food the dogs have been eating there is so much.   As best I've been able to figure out, there are three main packs of dogs separated by a T-shaped stream system.   Plus there are dozens of single free roaming dogs that follow the deer trails, plus another pack back up on the big hill.   These dogs are very well fed and don't want for anything.  The abundant scat piles is a year round thing, not an occasional occurrence. 

My guess as to why they don't expose themselves or respond to challenge calls is these dogs have been untouched for generations.  They have no fight in them.  There is plenty of land and food around for everyone.   I'm sure they challenge each other frequently, but it is just friendly chatter.  No one needs to get into a fight so they don't bother with the aggressive stuff.   At least that's the theory I'm working on after calling them every 2 weeks since September and watching how they react.

Based on my observations and Browning's input, I think we have a plan on how to get them, one pack at a time and it is going to involve using multiple callers at long distance, separated by some distance between them.  Hopefully we'll have some luck and report back here in a week or two. 

and I am gonna bring in my video camera to try to catch some of those vocalizations on film, and hopefully some coyotes getting shot.

What a great story, You won't forget that hunt anytime soon.

thanks melsdad. And by the way, Glad you found the forum Omega. I told you this was a good one, you'll enjoy it and when we get some fur down, we'll be on the phone with Jim and he will talk us throught he skinning and fleshing process! :biggrin:

Quote from: Omega47 on December 08, 2007, 11:58:34 PM
the 75 acres or so that I hunt. 

nobody has hunted any of these dogs in over 40 years, so it isn't hunting pressure that is causing the problem.

I've made 10 trips this year for the dogs (the one with Browning was the 10th). 

after calling them every 2 weeks since September and watching how they react.

Not trying to be a smart butt w/ you by any means Omega, but I would consider calling in a 75 acre area evey 2 weeks hunting pressure. Please enlighten me if I'm reading this wrong. :shrug:

Sure sounds like you have yourself a honey hole for sure. :biggrin:

yes it is pressure but I think he was trying to say that other than him, these yotes are not pushed around and given a buffet of sounds to listen to.

If you've hit that area 10 times this season already, you are overhunting it.

Al

I disagree about over hunting it.  First of all the dogs are responsive right away every time.  There reactions now are the same as they were the first day.  I know there have not been any dog hunters back there in the last 20 years (according to the property owner) and there haven't even been any deer hunters back there at least 5 years.  The only hunters on the property have been moose hunters and they are hunting a different section of the parcel.  Plus, as mentioned, there are several distinct packs, so even if we work one for a couple weeks, that still leaves us other different packs to work later.

If Browning and I work our plan, I'm pretty confident we'll get some dogs next weekend.

Quote from: Omega47 on December 09, 2007, 07:32:51 PM


If Browning and I work our plan, I'm pretty confident we'll get some dogs next weekend.

WOW you are putting alot of pressure on us now!  :laf:

I might have to call out sick to work on friday to get in the correct mental state and do some power yoga to be ready to perform!!

I think if we stick to our guns, and stay smart we will might drag something out of there.

Don't be such a pessimist  :madd:

 :laf:

 :hahaha:

Quote from: Omega47 on December 09, 2007, 08:30:37 PM
Don't be such a pessimist  :madd:

Get on him Omega, don't cut him any slack. :wink:

If ya do come back w/ fur on the floor, I'm going to have to try the yoga thing. :laf:  My youngest daughter is a yoga instructor. :eyebrow:

any one who has ever met me will tell you that Yoga and me are not a good mix!

I would have myself in a knot in no time.

204 is the info. in the PM starting to make sense?

Quote from: Randy Roede on December 10, 2007, 07:54:11 PM
204 is the info. in the PM starting to make sense?

Did you PM me? If so I didn't get nothing.

so we went back to that spot. the only thing different was there is about a foot of snow on the ground. We called and got nothing at all. We looked around alot and there was no tracks of any animals anywhere!!! Well, except rodents.

This area hold Moose, Deer, Coyote, Turkey, Cats and we saw NOTHING. what the hell, are they bedded down waiting for the Nor'easter tonight? or did they go south for the winter?    WEIRD.

04-I resent the message from 11-30-07 the other must be somewhere in cyberspace, my fault! Let me know if you get this one!

got it, I am gonna PM you back right now

Quote from: browning204 on December 15, 2007, 08:39:46 PM
so we went back to that spot. the only thing different was there is about a foot of snow on the ground. We called and got nothing at all. We looked around alot and there was no tracks of any animals anywhere!!! Well, except rodents.

This area hold Moose, Deer, Coyote, Turkey, Cats and we saw NOTHING. what the hell, are they bedded down waiting for the Nor'easter tonight? or did they go south for the winter?    WEIRD.

I went back this afternoon just to look around.  I checked the three primary active areas and there are still NO TRACKS anywhere.  This is unreal.  This is a spot where pretty much 24/7 you can find tons of scat and hear dogs reply to calls.  Anytime I've ever been out we see tracks everywhere from turkey to deer to moose to bear to coyote and even bobcats.  There is absolutely nothing out there but, as Browning said, rodent prints and an occasional house cat chasing said rodents.  My son and I are going to do some scouting again on Saturday to see if we can find out where everybody went.

browning204
I had pretty much the same thing here in Ohio, but not as BIG as your Pack, we had 4-6 Coyotes Howling and running Back & forth and it sounded like they were Popping their Jaws, they were only 20-25 yards away from us in a Thicket, we had a Cross Wind and they did this for about 3-5 Minutes, but then the Wind Swirled a Little and "POOF" they were gone, we never heard them leave or anything, But we did feel the Wind Swirl & Change, so we knew why they left
And I DO AGREE, that is one of the Wildest Things to experience, those Coyotes Howling,Growling and Popping their jaws and only 20 Yds in front of you, I know I was grinning from Ear to Ear when that was going on, It all Started when a nearby town set their Curfew Siren off at 9 PM, there was a bunch of domestic Dogs barking and then we heard the Coyotes open up at about 600 yds or farther away, when we heard it I told the Guy I was with to get his Stuff and lets move, so we moved about 150-200 yds because that was ALL we could move without screwing the Stand up for sure, and we were playing Distress sounds all night and they never responded once,, BUT that isn't to say they weren't there with the distress sounds, the Coyotes could have been there and left,, and we just didn't know it
But when I Howled, it was a WHOLE DIFFERENT BALL GAME !!!  :yoyo: we didn't get a shot, but it WAS a Big Rush just having the Coyotes that Close, in the Dark and raising Hell like they were, so I am TRYING to find ALL I can on Howling and what ALL of the different Howls Sound like and what they mean, so if you guys figure anything out, let me know,I am game for anything
And Glad to meet ya Omega47 !!! you will Like it here :yoyo:
Thank You
Bob

what is a curfew siren?

browning204
The Fire Siren goes off at 9PM in the Town, and that is when ALL the Little Kiddies under 18 Years of Age have to be OFF of the Streets,, so when the Siren went off at 9 PM, the Local Dogs Barked and The Coyotes started Howling
so that is when we moved closer to the Coyotes,, and used the Distress for a Bit, when nothing happened I decided to hit the Howl on the FX5, and that is when the Coyote went NUTS  :shrug: and our Situation sounds REAL CLOSE to your Situation browning204, so if you guys come up with a Theory on this Please Let me know   :confused:  :bowingsmilie: But I think by Reading the Tutorials at the Top on Coyote Vocalizations, I may get a little closer to knowing a LITTLE more about what is going on in the Coyotes Mind  :shrug: and then again, Probably not  :laf:
Thank You
Bob

Ok, we went out again today and found the pack of dogs had moved about 2 1/2 miles down the road to a new area.   

As always, they responded to our calls with howls and barks, but would not come any closer.   Same lazy pack of dogs as last time.  Wind was to our face and we were well concealed, but that has never been an issue before either.   Anyone know how to drive these dogs in rather than just converse with us for hours on end?

Omega, I had an entire thread with explanation of our hunt typed up here but with 1 sentence left, my POS computer shut down!!!!!!

As I typed, we were using the MARTZ method by using aggressive howls to fire them up. Once we had them going we tried some distress and back to howls.

As Omega stated, we can get them talking but no responders and with all the snow (waist deep) I would think we would see them.

Is the snow to deep? are they not buying our howls? very smart coyotes? Any ideas and tips would be great. The coyotes are really starting to tick me off.

p.s. Omega almost killed me on the snow mobile! I need a chiropracter :laf:

Is it possible these are wild dogs & noy coyotes?? :shrug:  Just thinking out loud here is all.

I guess anything is possible!!

I am thinking maybe using less aggressive howls?

A pack of wild dogs would have most certainly attacked.  They have little fear of man.

They are the most dangerous animals in the new england woods.   

Al

All I know is that it is weird. They get all fired up but keep their distance.

Have you guys pulled up a good topo map of the area?   

The coyotes are not going to cross 2 or 3 feet of powdery snow to get to anything.

With all the sign you found in the area before the snow, and with no sign there now, it sounds like it is a travle area with animals going from one place to another to feed.   If you have moose, you should have some clear cuts somewhere around.  Turkeys, some fields.   Deer, something is making them go from one place to another.  Especially the deer.  They are so perdictable it's silly.

You said you found them about 2 miles away.  Is there high ground where you found them? Creek bottoms running anywhere through there? 

The snow means the deer are in the yards,   The coyotes here live off them when they are in the deer yards.  Find the deer yard, and you will find coyotes.   

Also start looking for the creek bottoms.  The coyotes will use them as travel lanes when there is deep snow on the ground.   

Look for edge cover, anthing that will break up the drifiting snow and allow for easier travle.   Old fence lines that keep it from drifting, 

It's a scouting game now.  The place to start is with a good map and then do some leg work.

Good luck

Al

Just a thought. I do like the idea of finding the deer yards tho. And probably use fawn distress. If you can find an old fence try rattling the fence while the fawn distress plays too. Might help. :shrug:

THO

There are deer tracks everywhere throughout the property.  The deep snow doesn't seem to bother the deer at all and they go everywhere.  I'm surprised at how many tiny fawn tracks are still out there following along with the does.  Surprisingly, there were even moose tracks crossing the property yesterday too.   There were no dog tracks in any of the usual places so we started off down an old logging road.  First we saw some deer tracks in the road, then just after those turned off into the woods, we found a set of coyote tracks walking down the middle of the road.  We followed the coyote tracks for over a mile until they turned right into the woods just before a bridge over a creek.  Another set of coyote tracks coming from a different direction joined these where they went into the woods.  That's when we parked the sled and started following them in. 

The tracks went over a small steep ridge and down the other side into the middle of a snow covered marsh where they were joined by still more sets of tracks.   The open marsh went out about 400 yards in front, 200 yards to the left, with a peninsula on the right front  at about 100 yards.  There is about a 10' wide creek bed running from where we came in out into the middle of the marsh and out past the peninsula. 

The coyote responses were coming from well behind the peninsula, probably 1/2 mile behind and to the right.   First they responded with long strings howls and barks until finally cutting in with what sounds like a pack of pups all yelping at the same time, then dead silence from that point on.  This is the exact same call behavior/pattern the first sets of dogs have been doing to me since September. 

Today I purchased the 1:24,000 topo map CDs for NH and am going to spend some time studying the area more thoroughly.  I think we are going to have to trek deeper into the woods away from the road, but the going is rough with all sorts of boulders, fallen trees and creek beds hidden under the deep snow.   The farthest we've gone is our first stand site which is about 1/4 mile off the road.  There are no human trails anywhere in the vicinity and I get tripped up a lot.  Maybe we will need to get snow shoes.  Browning can tell you how exhausting it is just to hike in the short distances we do now.   

If I wasn't so protective of the location of this piece of land, I'd invite more people to try it  :biggrin: but if we don't get something soon, I might extend an invitation to someone a little smarter than we are  :madd:

There are pretty good maps right on this forum in the menu bar right under the search box.


There are hundreds of places to hunt in NH.  Part of the fun is going out, trying stuff and seeing what works and what doesn't.  Once you figure an area out, you can hunt it that way every year for the most part and do well. as long as you dont do things to change the animals behavior.

The more places you find to hunt, the less chance of that happening.

The more places you hunt, the more siturations you solve that help you with new places.

Over time, it gets a bit easier.  Nothing however, can take the place of time in the woods.

If I could make one suggestion, it would be to get a good GPS, gppd map, and a note book and keep accounts of your hunts.   Study what you have done, where you have set up and what results you have gotten and then plan the next hunt based on what you know.

Heading out in a few myself. 

Al

This area has turned into a hot topic!! So many ideas from people to try. I think Omega is right, we gotta go deeper into the woods and maybe attach them from a different angle. I think they are gonna start remembering our routine and approuch routes. Sooner or later they are just gonna poop on our truck tires!!!

QuoteThis area has turned into a hot topic!!

Yeah, I guess.  I just read all about it on aniother board. 

AL

yes you did, I am trying to get a bunch of opinions on it.

If We don't shoot one soon, I think we should lay off at least till mating season.

I think, and this is just my opinon mind you, that you should continue to hunt it every chance you get, as much as you can.  Wear them out.   Give them absolutely no respite, no reprieve, no rest!  Pound 'em!  HARD!

Al

By the way, you didn't tell them the whole story.  I think if you had, the suggestions you recieved would have been a lot different.

Just a guess.

Al

How many times have you hunted these Coyotes? And in what time frame?


Brent

I am thinking call shy. And yes they can and will get call shy to howlers too.  That many acres of public ground, somebody is hunting it. I am having some of the same problems with one group in particular. Vocal as they can be during the day even. Yet they cuss you all the way out of the area. And these animals have back doored you several times already.

As THO told you study your maps of the area real well. Pick several aproaches depending on winds if you can. Now here is what is going to bother you, don't use the howlers at all. Switch to a high pitched bird distress or baby cottontail type of sound. Preferably do it with a mouth call. If you just have to use an e-caller use grey fox distress or coyote pup. You won't get the old dogs with these tactics but you will take out a few of the pups.

Every once in a while you will run into a group that just loves to hear themselves howl. Not often but they do happen even on this side of the river. I have only run into two groups like this myself. Both were in the LBL, public hunting grounds.They would howl when it got calm, overcast and a bit muggy. Occasionally other groups will answer them and allow you to locate them as well. Jimmie

Quote from: keekee on December 26, 2007, 05:38:09 PM
How many times have you hunted these Coyotes? And in what time frame?


Brent

Myself, maybe 4 times in 4 weeks. Omega has been at them since September.

Quote from: THO Game Calls on December 26, 2007, 03:35:39 PM
By the way, you didn't tell them the whole story.  I think if you had, the suggestions you recieved would have been a lot different.

Just a guess.

Al

What did I leave out?

Quote from: THO Game Calls on December 26, 2007, 03:26:30 PM
I think, and this is just my opinon mind you, that you should continue to hunt it every chance you get, as much as you can.  Wear them out.   Give them absolutely no respite, no reprieve, no rest!  Pound 'em!  HARD!

Al

Not Funny!

Quote from: Omega47 on December 21, 2007, 09:11:46 PM
Ok, we went out again today and found the pack of dogs had moved about 2 1/2 miles down the road to a new area.   

As always, they responded to our calls with howls and barks, but would not come any closer.   Same lazy pack of dogs as last time.  Wind was to our face and we were well concealed, but that has never been an issue before either.   Anyone know how to drive these dogs in rather than just converse with us for hours on end?

There's no doubt these coyotes have been burnt multiple times in multiple ways.  A repeated disappointement in distress sounds and constant confusion over elusive vocals are going to make for some wary coyotes.  Ain't no two ways about that.

They're not lazy, they just aren't motivated enough to commit as hard as you're requiring them too.    The wind at your face is not always a good thing... in fact, you need to be VERY comfortable with a particular area of deep cover/forest in order to setup with the wind in your face.  Depending on the location of your caller, wind in your face often leaves little wiggle room for an incoming coyote to work.  It's not that he can't, it's that he won't.

A lot of callers are perplexed why coyotes won't come into a situation that requires the wind to blow up their tail, in other cases they wonder why they don't see coyotes coming to the call in swirling or excessive wind.  Callers sometimes spend too much time looking at the situation as it pertains to themselves and their needs for success.  I believe they need to take a look at the situation as if their a coyote that wants to survive it.  If *he* is unsure what the wind is going to do, how will he use it to his advantage?   If it's blowing scent across his nose at the speed of light, how is he supposed to interperate it?  If *he* has to give up the wind in order to investigate that sound- why would he?

It all comes down to motivating a coyote and putting realistic expectations in front of him.  It's hard to find a hard charging coyote with the wind at his back and 800 yards of waste deep snow to cover.  Especially when he's been dinked with repeatedly for four months.   Those coyotes are getting smarter... treat them that way.    I'd try to locate their general vicinity (although that can be hard) then setup as tightly as possible in anticipation of a leary, slow working, wide circling, patient coyote.   In this situation- I'd use ambient sounds like crows/ravens/magpies at great length.   Occasionally a small rodent or bird distress, then more ambience to draw curiousity.  If nothing else, run one of your typically unsucessful stands to locate or move the coyotes... then coordinate a better plan of attack once you know what you're dealing with.

Your intense calling pressure has created a monster.   Luckily, it's a fairly predictable monster.

PS: I wouldn't let up on em'... you're in too deep.  It's not like their going to forget these lessons in days or weeks.

Good write up Jason, Not sure if the line " run one of your typically unsucsessful stands" is a shot or not, but good right up anyways.

As I said, we may take a crack at them once more before we lay off until mating or later. I think we are gonna slip in there as close as we can, where I suspect they will move a little bit at ease. If there wasn't so much walking in Deep cover and snow, I would bring my tree stand in there to get a better look around.

QuoteWhat did I leave out?

The other 47 times you two guys have hunted that spot this season.

I understand it's New Hampshire, but for God's sake, there are more than 3 or 4 coytoes in the state.  

I know neither one of you think you are over hunting it, but between you, you have been out there what, 12 or more times this season?

Hows that working out for you?

Al

QuoteGood write up Jason, Not sure if the line " run one of your typically unsucsessful stands" is a shot or not, but good right up anyways

browning-- I read it differently. :wo:  Read it in conjunction with the rest of that sentence. I think he meant to do "as usual" so you can stay & try to observe their movements of possible. Thats how I took it anyhow.  :shrug:  Could be an opportunity to intercept them in a different area or along their travel path either the next time out or just reset differently a couple hundred yards away. HTH

QuoteHey guys - I'm the one who took Browning to the spot.  Just to give you a heads up, this is like my private sanctuary.  Nobody else hunts back there but me, at least not in the last 5 years or so.  We have 2000 acres of state owned land to the right, another 2000 or so acres behind us, our plot is 375 acres,  and on the left is 1000 acres of private land that is posted no hunting.  Altogether, there is about 4000 acres of habitat feeding the 75 acres or so that I hunt.  

[/color]
^^^^ is from page 2 of this thread.  I put the red/bold in the quote.

If there is about 4,375 acres of public/private land there why not try to get them from as many different angles as possible? Seems like a lot more opportunities on that much ground VS the 75 acres that have been hunted. If I'm missing something here just let me know.

I'm also wondering about the sounds being used. Are you using a FoxPro?? If so do you have the "Rodent Squeaks" on it?? Just use it sparingly off & on. Run it for 30 seconds to get their attention then mute it. Run it every couple minutes on low volume for 5-10 seconds at a time & stay quiet the rest of the time. Low volume since rodents don't squeak very loud anyhow.

HTH :biggrin:

Quote from: THO Game Calls on December 26, 2007, 09:50:55 PM

QuoteWhat did I leave out?

The other 47 times you two guys have hunted that spot this season.

I understand it's New Hampshire, but for God's sake, there are more than 3 or 4 coytoes in the state.  

I know neither one of you think you are over hunting it, but between you, you have been out there what, 12 or more times this season?

Hows that working out for you?

Al

Right, he has hunted it a bunch before he brought me there. I am just trying to explain what I have seen first hand. He has gotten different responses.

No, I am not using a foxpro. We have been using Howls from a WT. Distess doesn't seem to get them going.

QuoteDistess doesn't seem to get them going

Are you trying to kill these coyotes or have a coffee clutch with them?

If you could speak coyote, it might sound something like this

Mike and the WT - "Hey, I'm a big bad coyote and I'm invading your territory.  What you going to do about it?"

Coyotes - "Yeah Yeah Yeah, we've heard it for weeks now.  It might have worked the first time but we are wise to you now so piss off."


The coyotes will teach you what you need to know to kill them if you pay attention.

You're not paying attention.

Al

Quote from: THO Game Calls on December 27, 2007, 08:16:40 AM

QuoteDistess doesn't seem to get them going

Are you trying to kill these coyotes or have a coffee clutch with them?

If you could speak coyote, it might sound something like this

Mike and the WT - "Hey, I'm a big bad coyote and I'm invading your territory.  What you going to do about it?"

Coyotes - "Yeah Yeah Yeah, we've heard it for weeks now.  It might have worked the first time but we are wise to you now so piss off."


The coyotes will teach you what you need to know to kill them if you pay attention.

You're not paying attention.

Al

Wise words if I ever heard them. Now pay attention son...... :eyebrownod:

Sometimes are preconceived notions are our worst enemies. We follow through with them to a fault.

browning204
When you guys hunt together, do you 2 stay within Sight of each other, or does 1 of you circle out in another direction, to maybe see them,where they are stopping to Howl at you ???
If they are coming within 200 yards of you 2 guys, and then yapping at you,,maybe 1 of you can circle, and try to get them where they are stopping,to answer your Howls,, leave 1 guy at the caller and the other guy can try and intercept them,, if its a remote caller, then maybe you can both circle in a different direction,,then maybe the Coyotes will Stop 200 yards from the caller,,but then they might be in your Sights if you circle towards them by 100 yards or so
If you 2 have always stayed at the caller,the coyotes might assume you are STILL at the caller,,when in reality you are away from the caller and trying to get the Coyotes in the Coyotes Comfort Zone ???
Its hard for me to type what I am trying to say,,but Give em Hell,,it sounds like the Hunters and the Coyotes are Bullheaded enough that SOMETHING has to happen soon,, and 1 thing is,,IF you guys do get 1 of these Coyotes,it will definatly be a Trophy that you have WORKED for
Good Luck
Bob

Quote from: THO Game Calls on December 26, 2007, 09:50:55 PM

QuoteWhat did I leave out?

The other 47 times you two guys have hunted that spot this season.

I understand it's New Hampshire, but for God's sake, there are more than 3 or 4 coytoes in the state.  

I know neither one of you think you are over hunting it, but between you, you have been out there what, 12 or more times this season?

Hows that working out for you?

Al

Now you are getting sarcastic and mean.  We have been there a total of 14 times since September 1st, separated by at least 2 weeks between attempts since December (I was going a lot more frequently before then).   The reacton of the dogs is the same now as it was that first day in September.   Their replies have not changed.  The only difference now is we can sustain the chatter back and forth for a lot longer period of time using Browning's WT caller than I could using my mouth calls.   If we've learned anything about these dogs is that they are willing to play.

I honestly don't think we've over hunted them (never a shot has been fired), nor have we spooked them (as demonstrated by their willingness to play any time we start calling).   I think the reality is we have not yet entered their territory to where they consider us a threat.   At best, we've been discovering the outside edges of it, which at this point appears to be about 4 miles long on the side we come in on, but we haven't yet penetrated into the heart of it, mainly because of the lack of any trails or paths leading us in without serious hiking.   The only entries weve found are by walking in through a creek or hoofiing it through some pretty rugged terrain.  It's going to take some more scouting and some serious planning to get in there.

Lastly, as far as there being other dogs in NH, who cares?  This is some serious fun we're having.   C'mon - what more could you want?  We have at least a couple different packs of dogs that challenge us, talk to us, and give us an adventure any time we go out.  They are always there for us, ready to play and forcing us to think and to scout, exploring areas of this parcel we would probably never even look at otherwise.  I'm sure we aren't too far away from busting them and their patterns, but honestly, sometimes I hope we never shoot one.  Chasing them is a whole lot of fun by itself.   :biggrin:

Quote from: ohiobob on December 27, 2007, 10:57:37 AM
browning204
When you guys hunt together, do you 2 stay within Sight of each other, or does 1 of you circle out in another direction, to maybe see them,where they are stopping to Howl at you ???
If they are coming within 200 yards of you 2 guys, and then yapping at you,,maybe 1 of you can circle, and try to get them where they are stopping,to answer your Howls,, leave 1 guy at the caller and the other guy can try and intercept them,, if its a remote caller, then maybe you can both circle in a different direction,,then maybe the Coyotes will Stop 200 yards from the caller,,but then they might be in your Sights if you circle towards them by 100 yards or so
If you 2 have always stayed at the caller,the coyotes might assume you are STILL at the caller,,when in reality you are away from the caller and trying to get the Coyotes in the Coyotes Comfort Zone ???
Its hard for me to type what I am trying to say,,but Give em Hell,,it sounds like the Hunters and the Coyotes are Bullheaded enough that SOMETHING has to happen soon,, and 1 thing is,,IF you guys do get 1 of these Coyotes,it will definatly be a Trophy that you have WORKED for
Good Luck
Bob

Bob,

Browning and I typically space ourselves up to 50 yards apart, each facing different directions and covering different terrain so there is no chance of a cross fire situation.  When my son is with us, we split up even farther apart.

The problem with the "circle around" theory is the terrain.  Even without snow, it is very difficult at best with endless boulders, exposed roots and fallen trees and branches.   Last time we went out, the snow was hip deep on top of all that junk.   I was tripping over hidden trees and boulders constantly.   When I got back to the truck, my gun barrel and scope were packed with snow.  You get exhausted after hiking only a few dozen yards.  I think we have to be committed to where we set up, so picking that starting point is the most important part of the stand.    As I said earlier, I think all our stands to date have been good ones, but we are on the outer limits of their territory.  We need to start from a spot deeper inside their territory which means we may have to start at least a couple hours earlier to allow us enough time to hike in and get settled before calling. 

Omega47

Quote from: HaMeR on December 26, 2007, 10:13:01 PM

If there is about 4,375 acres of public/private land there why not try to get them from as many different angles as possible? Seems like a lot more opportunities on that much ground VS the 75 acres that have been hunted. If I'm missing something here just let me know.

I'm also wondering about the sounds being used. Are you using a FoxPro?? If so do you have the "Rodent Squeaks" on it?? Just use it sparingly off & on. Run it for 30 seconds to get their attention then mute it. Run it every couple minutes on low volume for 5-10 seconds at a time & stay quiet the rest of the time. Low volume since rodents don't squeak very loud anyhow.

HTH :biggrin:

The problem is accessibility.  The main parcel is 5 miles long x 2 1/2 miles wide of undeveloped raw wilderness.  There is only one access point to this land and that is an old ragged dirt road originally cut back in the 1600s that runs right up through the middle of the property.   The outer edges of the parcel along the public roads are posted private property, no trespassing so we cannot access from any public road.  As mentioned in other posts, the terrain is very rough.  Other than from a couple old timer deer hunters, this land hasn't been accessed at all in the last 45 years (according to the current owner), and nobody's really been on it at all in the last 20 years.  It is all up and down hill and the land is strewn with glacial boulders, fallen trees, exposed roots, etc.  There are lots of creek beds and far more cliffs and vertical drops than you would imagine should be in there.  There is no easy walking anywhere on the property.  Now add two feet of snow on top of that and it gets tougher to get around.

As far as the callers go, these dogs have never responded to prey calls, whether it is using hand callers, my Preymaster, or any other caller.   They respond only to coyote howls.  I can get them going with my hand callers, but I run out of gas before they do.  Using Browning's WT caller, we can keep them talking to us for hours.

 

Not a shot at all, I'm very serious.  Do whatever it takes to locate or place the coyotes... and any stand made within their range (that doesn't kill them) will probably locate or rellocate them.

I recently kept a coyote talking for 6 hours while I hunted other farms in a 5-6 mile radius and harvested a couple other coyotes... eventually walking back in on him and killing him without any calls whatsoever.  He stood in the same 50 yard circle the entire time and responded to most, if not all, vocals I used on the other stands.   He had seen me kill at least two of his siblings- one of which had an infected gutwound I inflicted nearly two weeks earlier.  That 140 acre farm is now completely void of coyotes and has been for nearly three weeks dispite good numbers in every direction.   Sometimes these smart coyotes are too smart for their own good... as they become very predictable in their daily routines and their reactions to pressure. 

While callshy vocal coyotes are not the most likely to physically respond to a call, they'll allow you to pinpoint their location.  That location (thicket/hill/ridgeline) is where they feel safest when confronted with a pressure or threat from YOUR location (shelf, valley, clearing).  Maybe that's a piece of information you can use at the moment to rellocate and kill him, maybe it's something you need to keep in mind for next week, but it's extremely important to correlate that comfort zone with the setup and wind direction you used it in.

We have similar tracts of timber in my area, many are larger and the terrain is impassable in a lot of places.  Believe me, it's not easy to deal with problem coyotes in these areas.  While I have developed a few theories and techniques that I use in those situations they are not failproof or even high-precentage hitters for that matter.  You'd be MUCH better off hunting other coyotes- but that's not always an option.

PS: Don't expect these coyotes to climb a hill within 100-150 yards of the sound source.  Out, or down... but not up.

You two guys asked for suggestions.   Suggestions were given.

You didn't like them, even disagreed with them, (and still do) and so you took it to another board.

If you had told them that you had hunted this pack of coyotes 14 times since September they would have laughed you right out of the place.  

I am not being sarcastic or mean.  I am being honest.  

Go back and read this thread from when this board first started

http://www.finsandfur.net/forums/index.php?topic=251.0

I am going to leave you two with one last observation:

The coyotes you hear are not respondiing to your howls, in the way you think they are, instead, I think they are responding to warn other coyotes in the area that you are there.

Al

I don't recall us not liking any of the suggestions.  I fact, I recall taking every one to heart and trying them when we got in the field.  If I discuss them at all it is to try and convert the information in the post into something my mind can relate to what we are seeing in the field.  I'm not being critical - just asknig more questions.

As far as the coyotes telling others that we are there - if you read my first point on the NH forum, that is what I said was happening and someone told me I was wrong......  My buddy at Knight & Hale told me that back in September.   He calls it the "bang - your busted" call.  But still, I don't think it's all that bad because when we stop, these dogs will start their "hi, how do you do" calls until we play back, then it all starts up again.  It's like a game to them.

Before we started, I warned Browning that anyone I've told this story to calls me a liar or worse, and anyone I've taken out to see these dogs first hand who then goes on to tell what they saw gets ridiculed by their former hunting buddies as being nothing short of a lunatic.    Browning didn't believe me until he witnessed things first hand.  I've been going on coyote hunts in CA and in TX for 15+ years and have never come across anything like these dogs.   Out there, you call and the dogs come running.  Unfortunately, these dogs aren't territorial, they don't want to fight and I am convinced they do like to play.  I have no doubt they are effective hunters - their droppings are always packed with deer hair, other fur and berries, and there are always LOTS of scat everywhere we look.  These dogs aren't hungry or starving for a meal - at least not yet.  Maybe in January things will change, but even when I put out bait piles these dogs don't go near them. 

Bottom line is the past few months have been a great learning experience for me.  I've really enjoyed tracking these dogs and bantering back and forth with them.   Every step taken with them has been logical and methodical.  As stated, the next logical step is for us to trek deeper into their domain and set up there.   We'll try that this weekend.   If we get them, fine.  If not, I know I'll have something fun to do in another 2 weeks. 

I never called either of you a liar.   I have no doubt that what you say is happening.

You have fun chasing those "dogs".  Hope you get one.

Al

[quote author=

The coyotes you hear are not respondiing to your howls, in the way you think they are, instead, I think they are responding to warn other coyotes in the area that you are there.

Al

[/quote]

If that is true then why are they coming to the call and surrounding it to warn other coyotes? Wouldn't they put distance between themselves and the sound source but still vocalize to warn?

oh, and as far as taking the question to another board, I did that to try to get as many points of view as I can. Why not get as many tips as I can and try to apply them in the feild?

I really didn't think there is a problem with that.

oh ya, again. Thank you JRB for the replies.

Quote from: browning204 on December 27, 2007, 03:13:59 PM
oh ya, again. Thank you JRB for the replies.

I know you just accidentally forgot me, so I'll just say your welcome now.............. :wink:

I see omega.  We have places here that are the same way. Sorry I couldn't help more tho. :shrug:


Keep after em tho!! I wanna see some pics of these dead coyotes dammit!! :wink: :laf:

Quote from: Bopeye on December 27, 2007, 03:19:42 PM

Quote from: browning204 on December 27, 2007, 03:13:59 PM
oh ya, again. Thank you JRB for the replies.

I know you just accidentally forgot me, so I'll just say your welcome now.............. :wink:

thanks Bop

Quote from: HaMeR on December 27, 2007, 04:27:59 PM
Keep after em tho!! I wanna see some pics of these dead coyotes dammit!! :wink: :laf:

OK, fine if that's how you're going to be  :innocentwhistle:.  I was hoping we could just chase them around all winter, but if you need to see blood, well I guess we'll have to kill one and post a photo.   

Whaddaya say Browning - start early Sunday and don't stop till we get at least one?   :doh2:

Pretend I'm a Ventriloquist and I have my hand in Browning's crack and doing the talking for him.

Browning: Sounds like a plan to me Omega. No sleeping or eating until we draw blood.

:eyebrownod:

QuoteNo sleeping or eating until we draw blood

Geez Bop, they already call him SkinnyKid - you want we should have to change his name to the Invisible man?   :roflmao:   :roflmao:     :roflmao:


Al

I'm glad THO linked that thread... I have thought of that discussion many times in recent months and I'm still AMAZED at some of the responses I saw there.   :shrug:

Success is in the eye of the beholder, and opportunities are different for all of us.  That being said,

If a stand looks nice and produces regularly I will keep it on my hot list.  If a place holds coyotes that I've burnt... or seems to hold a low number of resident coyotes... I'll put it a little farther back in my itenerary.  If a place offers pathetic stand selection, horribly low success ratios and minute coyote numbers I'll simply mark it off the list and only visit it on days/nights I shouldn't even be hunting because of weather/moon conditions.  Sometimes ya' just can't sit on the couch despite all negative indicators- and that's when I hit those dumpy spots.

At any rate- what you've discussed here in this thread is a spot not unlike 5-10 places in my books.  The difference is, mine are circled in red and I won't be hunting them at all this season because I don't think we're going to get the green properties covered by the end of February.   This is a difference in opportunity, not talent or determination.  If you are limited to an itenerary of stands that leaves this hellhole in the loop.... then by all means give it both barrels.  Your odds are signifigantly lower than they would be elsewhere- but that doesn't mean these coyotes are uncallable.  In fact, it sounds like they're ripe for the picking if you shift gears with the approach- as they're in transition from the average coyote to the ever-elusive UNCALLABLE coyote we've heard so much about.   So long as they're vocal, they're very very killable.  Just my opinion.


It's my belief that if you pound those coyotes 10 more times and finally figure out the factors it takes to get them killed- you'll gain knowledge that no 10 hard charging bangflops would give you.

PS: I'm not sure how you interperated the coyotes vocalizations back at you... but I don't believe it was a warning to others nor an invitation to the party.    They're nervous and threatened by a scenario they don't understand or trust.  If they believe they feel they can trust, or understand the situation they'll "sometimes" commit.  If they can't, they never will.   Just my take.

Quote from: Jrbhunter on December 27, 2007, 06:35:26 PM
PS: I'm not sure how you interperated the coyotes vocalizations back at you... but I don't believe it was a warning to others nor an invitation to the party.    They're nervous and threatened by a scenario they don't understand or trust.  If they believe they feel they can trust, or understand the situation they'll "sometimes" commit.  If they can't, they never will.   Just my take.

You're probably right.  My take is we get them to come to the edge of their territory but they won't come closer.  That's why we have to go in deeper before we make our stand. 

Quote from: Jrbhunter on December 27, 2007, 06:35:26 PM
PS: I'm not sure how you interperated the coyotes vocalizations back at you... but I don't believe it was a warning to others nor an invitation to the party.    They're nervous and threatened by a scenario they don't understand or trust.  If they believe they feel they can trust, or understand the situation they'll "sometimes" commit.  If they can't, they never will.   Just my take.

I couldn't fit my Coyote to english dictionary in my back pack so I really don't know. :laf:

Your probably correct.

 :laf: :laf:

Just hunt em hard & shoot straight when the opportunity arises!!  :wink:

Good Luck!! :biggrin:

 They think you're a coyote. Walk in and howl them up, and kill'em, on that old logging road.

edited due to poor taste............... :roflmao:

Quote from: Bopeye on December 28, 2007, 01:35:36 PM
edited due to poor taste............... :roflmao:

Aww... put it back.  We're not that sensitive.  Besides, I like a good joke

Quote from: Greenside on December 28, 2007, 01:22:29 PM
They think you're a coyote. Walk in and howl them up, and kill'em, on that old logging road.

Problem is - they won't come out on the road.  At least not in the day time, but they do track it up real good at night.  We've called them right up to the edge of the road a couple times, but they won't come out to where we can see them.   These buggers are smart - they know how to get close without coming out of cover.   One time earlier in the fall, I actually sat right in the middle of their trail just after a sharp bend around a boulder hoping one would run right into me.  I sat there for an hour with my .357 at the ready for a close shot.  The wind direction was favorable and they called back like crazy to my mouth calls.  They were so close to where the hair stood up on my neck - but they never showed themselves and with all the rocks around, I wasn't about to shoot blindly into the woods.   :madd:

The coyotes will teach you everything you need to know to kill them if you pay attention.

Pay Attention

Set the E caller right off the road maybe 5 feet

walk into the woods 75 to 100 yards

get up in a tree stand

kill coyotes


Al

THO beat me to that one by a mere 3 hours!! :laf: :laf:  Except the tree stand part. :wo:  I was gonna say leave the ecaller back about 100yds & use lower volume & slowly increase it until they respond then get ready.

Quote from: Omega47 on December 28, 2007, 06:05:59 PM

Quote from: Bopeye on December 28, 2007, 01:35:36 PM
edited due to poor taste............... :roflmao:

Aww... put it back.  We're not that sensitive.  Besides, I like a good joke

It was funny, but we do have kids and what not that come here...........sorry dude.  :wink:

Quote from: THO Game Calls on December 28, 2007, 06:29:16 PM
The coyotes will teach you everything you need to know to kill them if you pay attention.

Pay Attention

Set the E caller right off the road maybe 5 feet

walk into the woods 75 to 100 yards

get up in a tree stand

kill coyotes


Al

That's the gist of the plan we are going to work Sunday but more inland than near the road.  We cannot shoot anywhere towards the dirt road as the road is leased out to a snowmobile club for the winter and there can be cross country ski traffic on it as well.   We have to be careful of what's beyond what we shoot. 

I Can't do the tree stand since I can't climb a stand due to a chronic joint disease I've had since birth.  If we don't get one tomorrow, we're going to take a break for a few weeks 'cause I have to go home to CA for awhile, but when we come back, we'll set it up so Browning can use a tree stand.   I don't care who gets one first - I just want us to get one.

The idea is not to shoot back towards the road or E caller, but to make them think that you are where the caller is.  If you can do that, you can ambush them when they come to the caller.  A tree stand is nice because you can see better, but if you can find a piece of high ground, or a spot where you can get 15 to 20 yards off their travel route and still see, that will work too.

If you follow these boards enough, you will find that big woods coyote huntes always talk about getting back into the timber and not sitting on the edges.  Coyotes in timber don't like showing them selves.  They will often work to the edge of the timber and stay there.  When shadows start to get long, they will sometimes come to the edge of the shadows, but they wont step into the light.   If you can get between them and where they hear the sound coming from, you stand a very good chance of killing them.

The more snow on the ground, the more their travel pattens will change also.  You are already seeing that because they are using that swamp as a crossing.   Chances are, in the fall and before freeze up, they have a draw or creek bed they use to get from one part of their teritory to another.  There is probably a narrow trail on the edge of that swamp too. 

The biggest thing to keep in mind during periods of heavy show is that the coyotes will not expend any more energy than they have too.  Every calorie they use has to be replaced or they will die and food is a lot harder to find when there is deep snow on the ground.  They have as much trouble getting around in that stuff as you do unless it is crusted over.  This becomes even more important the later in the season you get with deep snow on the ground.  I really like to use a distress sound that will give them the most bang for the buck, which means a doe in distress or a fawn bleat.  No matter which sound or call I use, in heavy snow, I like to call more frequently than I would at other times.  I want to keep them interested and on a sting to me.  I really think a moving decoy works well in the snow also.

The later in the season we get and still have a lot of snow on the ground the easier they are to call until about the first of Feb.  For a couple weeks there it gets tough.  Then it picks up again if the snow is still deep.  Try not to hunt on days after a full moon.   They will have been hunting all night and I think it is harder to call them during the day when the moon has lit up the country side all night long.  First light in the dead of winter is a great time to call.  There always seems to be one or two that have had a bad night of hunting and they will come running if their bellies are empty. 

Even though you dont think you have over hunted them, remember that every time you go into the woods you leave your scent behind.   Many times, coyotes will visit your stands long after you are gone.  It doesn't take them long to figure out what's up. 

Good luck with them, I hope you get one, but it may be time to give them a rest for a bit and let them forget about you, though by now, I doubt that will happen in a couple of weeks.   

Al

I think we're just going to let them be for a month or so.   I'll be in So Cal part of January anyway, but until we go back, need to find another spot in NH to shoot coyotes.   Maybe I'll spoil myself with some easy CA dogs while I'm out there  :innocentwhistle:

ya, seeing on how the neighbor saw that they had moved to private property (probably trying to get away from the snowmobiles) we don't have much of a choice.

We did manage to jump 2 coyotes on a trail that we kinda blazed ourselves, we didn't see much. Although it was fun zipping around on the snowmobile, the crash we had was cool, now I GOTTA get one!  :yoyo:

Do it !!!!   Do it !!!  Listen to those voices in your head !!!   :doh2:

I met with a F&G officer today and found out why the dogs we've been chasing are so well fed and don't respond to prey calls - F&G maintains a carcass dump on the back side of the property that they put 3-5+ deer a week into.  Unfortunately, it is an area that is not huntable - posted land.  A lot of what he told me explains their odd behavior and why they are so hard to call in, and why there is deer hair filled scat everywhere.   :doh2:   I asked if we could access the coyotes through some of the bordering properties that they wander through but he said all the people who own the neighboring lands like the dogs and don't want to see them killed.   On the plus side, he said he'd give us as many deer carcasses as we need if I want to set up a bait pile on our plot.

A big difference between western hunting and hunting in NH is the attitude of another F&G officer I spoke with today.  He told me that all the land in his area is "already spoken for" by other hunters and there are no opportunities for us to hunt there, and he covers a huge territory.  He was nice about it but made it clear he wasn't going to help us.  What a joke.   But then again, the whole state of NH is smaller than Orange County CA, so I guess its a matter of having more hunters than huntable land here.  Explains why in 5 years of asking everyone we come across we've only found one plot of land to hunt on.

BS.

Al

I'm still shaking my head at your ignorance, but here are some FACTS for you Omega

There are 751,000 acres of federal land called the White Mountain National Forest that is open to year round hunting.  They do frown on you setting up in the parking lots of trail heads or on the back porches of the rest huts, but all the rest of it is open to hunting.   That's probably something like 750,000 acres.

There are  117 state forests, 41 state parks, 63 other tracts, and ovver 100 Wildlife Management Areas open to year round hunting in NH.

Almost ALL of the privately owned Paper Company land in NH is open to hunting

Any land not legally posted is legal to hunt on.   If the land is not posted, you do not have to have permission to hunt it.   Edited to say, if you have out of state plates, dont ask.  If you are a NH resident and you stop to ask, a lot of land owners will think you ARE an out of stater because if they didn't want you there, they would have posted the land.   

The State of NH gives an additional 20% tax break to land owners who allow hunting and fishing on their land year round, and that is ON TOP of the break they get for allowing other uses like hiling, biking and camping on their land.

There are about 60,000 licensed hunters in NH.  Most of them hunt deer for about 3  or 4 weeks a year.

20,000 of them hunt turkeys also

I would bet you there are less than 50 serious coyote hunters in the state.


I'll bet you that a large part of the problem you have getting permission to hunt up here is that people up hear like their dogs.  They're a part of the family.  Hell no they don't want you out there shooting their dogs.  I'm surprised some good old boy hasn't filled your ass with a load of buck shot wanting to shoot his dogs. 

Try asking if you can hunt coyotes sometime.  You might get a different answer.


Al

Couple of other points Omegaman

in the 1990's the state fish and game spent close to 50 millipn bucks buying up conservation easements so developers woiuld not be able to build near state lands so people like YOU would have a place to hunt.

The state constitution GUARANTEES us the right to hunt and fish FOREVER.


and perhaps the biggest point that somehow dosen't seem to be sinking in.....

I don't care if the fish and game dumped a truck load of grade A T Bone Steaks on that land once a day.

Coyotes respond to distress sounds.   They're COYOTES for goodness sake.  It's in their blood. 

Al


Where the hell did I put my meds?

Here;s a link to some of the Wildlife Management Areas in NH that you can hunt all year round.   They even have MAPS of the areas and tell you what game you can expect to find there.

http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Wildlife/WMA_index.htm

Here is a list of state lands where you CANNOT hunt

Frost Farm Historical Site in Derry
Urban Forestry Center in Portsmouth
Odiorne Point State Park in Rye (east side of Route 1A only - the west side of Route 1A is open to hunting),
Shieling State Forest in Peterborough
Opeechee Bay State Forest in Laconia
Pondicherry Wildlife Refuge in Jefferson

yup, that's all 6 of them.



No state land is "spoken" for.  It is for everyone to use.


Al

I don't know what I did to piss you off, but you've been a little harsh lately in your replies.  

Sorry for my ignorance.  Here's some facts for you from my point of view.

I'm from CA and have lived in TX as well.  If you want to go hunting in either place, just ask.  100 people will jump at the opportunity to take you any day of the week.  For example, I'm going to So Cal for a week this month.  I made one phone call to a non-hunter in LA and told him I'd like to go on a coyote hunt if the opportunity presents itself.  Within an hour he hooked me up with someone that wants to take me on a hunt if I can make it to his ranch during my visit.

I've been in NH for 7 years.  We have asked at every sporting goods store, gun store, outdoor show, etc and in 7 years, not one person has ever said "hey, I'll take you out hunting and show you around" unless it involved a big cash fee (which we paid this spring for my son's first Turkey hunt).   Nobody would even point us to an area to scout for possible hunting opportunities.  They always tell us to "just keep asking.  Eventually someone will be able to show you a spot".  The first time I went scouting in the National Forest (last fall), my son and I were accosted by a group of guys who told us they'd kick the shit out of us if we ever attempted to hunt in their area.   When I tried to file a report with a ranger I was told "Oh, don't worry about those idiots, they just like to keep people away from their stands"  Real friendly people up there.

Also regarding the National Forest, we've been told by several F&G people not to even bother trying to hunt there because we'll be harrassed to no end either by non-hunters or rangers who don't want you shooting in their area.    As far as all this paper mill property and other places you mention- you grew up here.  You know where they are.  Hell, I didn't even know there were any paper mills in NH.  Whenever we think we found some hunting land, we ask and ask and ask and nobody will give us a clue whether or not it is huntable.  Even the F&G people - their job is to promote hunting and fishing opportunities yet the guy today told me his entire WMU is "full" with "no hunting opportunities".  Two others I've spoken with were nicer but still wouldn't do anything to assist other than tell me to "just go knocking on doors until you find someone that will let you hunt".

This year, we've made progress, but it has been slow.   I hooked up with the one guy that lets us hunt his property (where the dogs are), and another guy Ken from another site that showed us an orchard in Boscawen to hunt, and Browning took us to a state park, so honestly, I'm happy with what we've accomplished this year, but I just don't know New Hampshire or the local customs well enough to just show up at a piece of property and start hunting it.   Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but out west there is always someone to point out an area and to make the necessary introductions to get permission to hunt it.  They call it being responsible, or "polite".

Out here, asking about where to hunt is like you're trying to steal a family treasure.  Its frustrating to be in an area where people treat you like crap unless they know you and nobody is willing to make introductions and show you around.

Thanks - that's helpful

Quote from: THO Game Calls on January 02, 2008, 06:30:12 PM
Here;s a link to some of the Wildlife Management Areas in NH that you can hunt all year round.   They even have MAPS of the areas and tell you what game you can expect to find there.

http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Wildlife/WMA_index.htm

Here is a list of state lands where you CANNOT hunt

Frost Farm Historical Site in Derry
Urban Forestry Center in Portsmouth
Odiorne Point State Park in Rye (east side of Route 1A only - the west side of Route 1A is open to hunting),
Shieling State Forest in Peterborough
Opeechee Bay State Forest in Laconia
Pondicherry Wildlife Refuge in Jefferson

yup, that's all 6 of them.



No state land is "spoken" for.  It is for everyone to use.


Al

Quote from: THO Game Calls on January 02, 2008, 06:17:42 PM
Couple of other points Omegaman

in the 1990's the state fish and game spent close to 50 millipn bucks buying up conservation easements so developers woiuld not be able to build near state lands so people like YOU would have a place to hunt.

The state constitution GUARANTEES us the right to hunt and fish FOREVER.


and perhaps the biggest point that somehow dosen't seem to be sinking in.....

I don't care if the fish and game dumped a truck load of grade A T Bone Steaks on that land once a day.

Coyotes respond to distress sounds.   They're COYOTES for goodness sake.  It's in their blood. 

Al


Where the hell did I put my meds?

We can get them to respond all day long to dog howls but we have NEVER gotten any of them to respond to ANY prey sounds.  Not since I started calling them in September using mouth calls, reed calls, Johnny Stewart Preymaster calls, or any of Brownings electronic calls.   Dog calls, they'll chat with us all day long. 

 :huh:

QuoteOut here, asking about where to hunt is like you're trying to steal a family treasure

No kidding.  

You need to do some home work.  And no, I did not grow up here.  I got stationed here in 1982 with the Marine Corps.   I lived here until 1989.  Then I went away for a few years, and came back after retiring in 1993  

In the 80's the average deer kill in the ENTIRE state was less than 4000 a year.

Today, NH has the smalled whitetaled deer population in the US of states that have deer.  It takes the average hunter 8 years to kill his first deer here.  Our deer kill this year for the ENTIRE state will be around 11,000 and that is going to be one of the BEST years we have had in 30 years,

No one is going to take you by the hand and say "sit here, that big 10 pointer I have been scouting all summer will be along any minute, you go ahead and shoot him another one will be along in a day or so."  We have less than 8 deer per square mile in NH, and in many places there is less than 1 deer per square mile.  

The deer hunting here SUCKS.  

You want people to show you where to hunt here?   You are kidding yourself.  


But, there are over 1 million acres of state owned land that you can hunt on.  

What you need to do, is put on a pair of boots and go for a walk in the woods, and you need to learn the Fish and Game Laws.  

If you get accosted while hunting or scouting by ANYONE, all you have to do is get a plate number of thier car.  Call the fish and game and get a warden.  It is a misdomener in NH to interfere with a hunter or fisherman in the persuit of game.  If you can't get a plate number, and you know where they are, the warden will come.  Usually he will bring a trooper too.  

Don't call a park ranger.  They are all liberal yuppies trying to find themselves.  Most of them are anti hunters who munch granola, think LL Bean is a real outdoors store and wouldn't know a coyote from a poodle.  

When I moived here, I was told not to even waste my time hunting deer.   I got here in November of 1982.  I spent every waking moment in a public state park scouting deer.   Opening day of bow season in 1983 I shot a nice liitle deer on public land not 20 minutes from my house.  No one took me by the hand and said go here, go there.

The game wardens here wont tell you where to hunt because they dont know where to hunt.  The only time they actually go in the woods is when they have to find a lost hunter.   And you saw how that went.  80% of the Fish and Game budget is spent resuing Muffy and Biff from one of the mountains in the Presidential range when they went up wearng shorts and tee shirts in April.  The only survial gear they carry is a cell phone.  911?  Help. We're lost.  



Hunting, is 90% scouting.  It's not begging or asking people where the deer or coyotes or anything else is.  It's boots on the ground, sweat, long days, and a bit of woodsmanship.   Get a map.  Learn how to use a compass,  Get a GPS, do some homework.  

Oh, and once you find a good spot, DONT TELL ANYONE.   I can assure you they will hunt the hell out of it every chance they get because 99% of "hunters" are too damn lazy to scout and do their homework and would tather someone show them where they can kill something instead of going out and hunting.  

As for your coyotes, I assure you they can be called, and they can be killed.   You probably will need to wait until the snow is gone sometime in late April or early May, but they can be called with distress sounds.

The game warden who told you they had a deer dump on private land was pulling  your leg.  it is not only illegal to dump deer like that, it is also bad management because of disease.   Additionally, Fish and Game does not pick up road kill in NH unless it is a moose or a bear.   The Highway department is tasked with that.  And, there wont be any road killed deer now for months, not until the snow starts to melt along the road sides.  The deer are in the yards now.  Those that survive the winter will become road hazards in the spring because the first places to get green are the road sides.  

And lastly, he was BSing you about giving you a dead deer for bait because it is illegal to set a bait pile out unless you have land owner permission, in writing, and have filed a topo map with the bait piles location with with the area game warden BEFORE you put the bait pile out.  

If you give me the name of the warden who told you there were no hunting oportunities in his area, I will make one phone call tomorrow to Don Clarke, the Fish and Game Commissioner, we go way back,  and that warden will be fired.  The state fish and game is in a financial crisis.  The last thing they want to do is drive people away from hunting and buying licenses.  

Al

Speaking of Don Clarke, he's the guy you want to call.   He used to be the Comissioner from Claremont.  He hates coyotes.  Thinks they kill all the deer.  Tell him you want to know were to hunt coyotes.   He hates them so much he tried a couple years ago to get the night hunting season extened from March 31 until August 31 so he could run his dogs at night because it was too hot to run them in the daytime.  Tell him your story about the warden, and tell him you want to kill coyotes,  You will make a friend.

I would leave the part about being from Commiefornia out though. 

Al

Quote from: THO Game Calls on January 02, 2008, 08:05:55 PM
Speaking of Don Clarke, he's the guy you want to call.   He used to be the Comissioner from Claremont.  He hates coyotes.  Thinks they kill all the deer.  Tell him you want to know were to hunt coyotes.   He hates them so much he tried a couple years ago to get the night hunting season extened from March 31 until August 31 so he could run his dogs at night because it was too hot to run them in the daytime.  Tell him your story about the warden, and tell him you want to kill coyotes,  You will make a friend.

I would leave the part about being from Commiefornia out though. 

Al

Too funny.  Both F&G people today told me that coyotes are not a problem in this state, that the locals love them and don't want them killed, and emphatically that NH coyotes do not kill deer.  They only eat what they find that someone else killed....

I would love to hunt the White Mountains. They are so vast, I wouldn't know where to begin to look for sign.

Quote from: THO Game Calls on January 02, 2008, 07:45:26 PM

QuoteOut here, asking about where to hunt is like you're trying to steal a family treasure

No kidding.  

Well at least I was right about something....

Quote
You need to do some home work.  And no, I did not grow up here.  I got stationed here in 1982 with the Marine Corps.   I lived here until 1989.  Then I went away for a few years, and came back after retiring in 1993  

In the 80's the average deer kill in the ENTIRE state was less than 4000 a year.

Today, NH has the smalled whitetaled deer population in the US of states that have deer.  It takes the average hunter 8 years to kill his first deer here.  Our deer kill this year for the ENTIRE state will be around 11,000 and that is going to be one of the BEST years we have had in 30 years,

No one is going to take you by the hand and say "sit here, that big 10 pointer I have been scouting all summer will be along any minute, you go ahead and shoot him another one will be along in a day or so."  We have less than 8 deer per square mile in NH, and in many places there is less than 1 deer per square mile.  

I wasn't expecting anyone to hold my hand.  I guess it's just a different state of mind.  Out west people will go hunting with you just to go hunting and have fun.  The best thing I found in CA was you can always find someone to do anything you want to do.  They become instant friends and there is always someone available if you want to go play.  I found this with shooting, hunting, race cars (I'm a former NASCAR driving instructor and USAC midget crew chief), model airplanes - you name it, there is always someone who will go with you.   I never expected anyone to hold my hand, but I was hoping to find people who liked to hunt and didn't mind a newbie tagging along.

The first clue I had that NH was different is when we moved to Laconia, the guy across the street walked over and said "Thank You" with more emotion than I would have expected.  I asked him "for what?".  He replied that he had lived there 9 years and was always "the new guy".  No one in the neighborhood would talk to him or give him the time of day.  They always referred to him as "the new guy" even after 9 years.  When we moved in, we became the "new guy".  Six years later, he is still the only neighbor that will talk to us, though he is now in good graces with the other people on this street.  He still thanks us for moving in and moving him up the social ladder here.  I've always felt the locals around here are a bunch of snooty mean a-holes because of this, and honestly, I can't wait to move back to CA or TX in a couple years.

Quote

The deer hunting here SUCKS.  

You want people to show you where to hunt here?   You are kidding yourself.  

Well, I guess that just reinforces my point.  After 7 years of asking and even paying a guide, I give up.  Thank God I'm really not interested in deer hunting, even though I find the overgrown rodents everywhere on the property.

Quote

But, there are over 1 million acres of state owned land that you can hunt on.  
What you need to do, is put on a pair of boots and go for a walk in the woods, and you need to learn the Fish and Game Laws.  

Don't call a park ranger.  They are all liberal yuppies trying to find themselves.  Most of them are anti hunters who munch granola, think LL Bean is a real outdoors store and wouldn't know a coyote from a poodle.  

From what the F&G people said about rangers, I believe that.  Even Kris at F&G office #2 said stay away from the National Parks as the rangers are not your friends and are often the biggest source of harassment of hunters.

This ranger knew these guys and basically said he wasn't going to do a thing because they were harmless (he implied we were bothering them!!).   I didn't get his name, but I vowed never to go back on the National Forest lands for hunting.

Quote
Hunting, is 90% scouting.  It's not begging or asking people where the deer or coyotes or anything else is.  It's boots on the ground, sweat, long days, and a bit of woodsmanship.   Get a map.  Learn how to use a compass,  Get a GPS, do some homework.  

Oh, and once you find a good spot, DONT TELL ANYONE.   I can assure you they will hunt the hell out of it every chance they get because 99% of "hunters" are too damn lazy to scout and do their homework and would tather someone show them where they can kill something instead of going out and hunting.  

Well, I work for the Military and until this year, I haven't been around much.  It's only since hooking up with this guy up north and Browning that I have been able to give any serious attention to hunting on a weekly basis.   Like I said, we've made good progress for the time we've spent so far, but it's time to add a new hunting spot to our portfolio.

Quote

As for your coyotes, I assure you they can be called, and they can be killed.   You probably will need to wait until the snow is gone sometime in late April or early May, but they can be called with distress sounds.

You're welcome to try.  How about Saturday?

Quote


The game warden who told you they had a deer dump on private land was pulling  your leg.  it is not only illegal to dump deer like that, it is also bad management because of disease.   Additionally, Fish and Game does not pick up road kill in NH unless it is a moose or a bear.   The Highway department is tasked with that.  And, there wont be any road killed deer now for months, not until the snow starts to melt along the road sides.  The deer are in the yards now.  Those that survive the winter will become road hazards in the spring because the first places to get green are the road sides.  

And lastly, he was BSing you about giving you a dead deer for bait because it is illegal to set a bait pile out unless you have land owner permission, in writing, and have filed a topo map with the bait piles location with with the area game warden BEFORE you put the bait pile out.  

I have no reason not to believe him.  I checked him out with the landowner I hunt with and he says this guy is a straight shooter.  We have night hunting and baiting permits that I'm taking over to file with F&G on Friday.  Once they are in place, this guy says he'll start bringing us deer carcasses as we ask for them.

Let me tell you what happens when you try to be nice to someone Omega.

You take a guy out coyote hunting.  Show him one of your favorite spots.  He actually gets a shot a coyote there.

Three days later, he goes back and does some locating with his e caller to see if there are coyotes in the areas.

Huh?

Then a week later he is back there hunting it.  Then again, with a buddy.  And then again.

A spot you took a couple years maybe and a WHOLE lot of work to find is no longer "your" spot.  It is now his, and his buddies, and everyones else he takes there.

A spot you hunt maybe two or three times a year is now ruined because someone else is hunting it every weelkend.

Buy a map, put on some boots and go scouting for your coyotes.  Don't ask at gun shows or shops.  Too many people have been burned to fall for that one.


As for hunting your coyotes, no, I think I will pass.  You have over hunted them severely and what you knew about them in September and October has changed drastically because of the deep snow.  You now have no clue what they are doing or where they are going.  It's pointless.  The best thing you could do right now is strap on some boots and snow shoes and go see where they are.  It might take a couple weeks, but once you find what they are doing, where they are living, you will be able to hunt them every time we get deep snow like this.  And come spring and early fall, if you do the same thing, you will be able to hunt them for years from the same spot as long as you dont do anything to disrupt their normal life in the woods.  The minute they know you are after them, they are going to change what they do.  Just the way it is.  You can argue the point, but it's still true.

AL
 

Quote from: THO Game Calls on January 03, 2008, 08:03:52 AM
Let me tell you what happens when you try to be nice to someone Omega.

You take a guy out coyote hunting.  Show him one of your favorite spots.  He actually gets a shot a coyote there.

Three days later, he goes back and does some locating with his e caller to see if there are coyotes in the areas.

Huh?

Then a week later he is back there hunting it.  Then again, with a buddy.  And then again.

A spot you took a couple years maybe and a WHOLE lot of work to find is no longer "your" spot.  It is now his, and his buddies, and everyones else he takes there.

A spot you hunt maybe two or three times a year is now ruined because someone else is hunting it every weelkend.

Well, that's what you get when you live in an area that obviously has more hunters than workable land.   :madd:

Quote

Buy a map, put on some boots and go scouting for your coyotes.  Don't ask at gun shows or shops.  Too many people have been burned to fall for that one.

That's what we've been doing the last 6 months.  BTW - what's to get burned about asking "hey, where's a good place to hunt?".   That question is just common sense when you move to a new area.   

*** some of you people from other areas of the country - are your states as nasty as NH as far as sharing opportunities with new hunters in your area? ***

Quote

As for hunting your coyotes, no, I think I will pass.  You have over hunted them severely and what you knew about them in September and October has changed drastically because of the deep snow.  You now have no clue what they are doing or where they are going.  It's pointless.  The best thing you could do right now is strap on some boots and snow shoes and go see where they are.  It might take a couple weeks, but once you find what they are doing, where they are living, you will be able to hunt them every time we get deep snow like this.  And come spring and early fall, if you do the same thing, you will be able to hunt them for years from the same spot as long as you dont do anything to disrupt their normal life in the woods.  The minute they know you are after them, they are going to change what they do.  Just the way it is.  You can argue the point, but it's still true.

AL
 

We do this every time we go out and I'll be out again Saturday doing more scouting. 

Quote*** some of you people from other areas of the country - are your states as nasty as NH as far as sharing opportunities with new hunters in your area? ***

Yes & no.

NO-- I know a couple fellas that put a ton of work into their deer hunting. They hunt year round so to speak & are rewarded nicely for it. They don't like others reaping their rewards.

NO--I don't tell folks where I turkey hunt either. I'm not that good at it & I've beat pavement to get what I have.

YES-- If you want to coyote hunt then I'll take you to public ground that has coyotes but not to my private land. No offense here intended but I had to work to get most of my nearly 10,000 acres of private land & I only trust a person after having been around him/her for a while.

YES-- If you want to rabbit hunt we have 10's of thousands of stripmined public acreage with abundant rabbit populations.

If you think NH is tuff,, try going over to CrowBusters.com &  asking for a place to crow hunt. They DO NOT reveal their prime locations & for a very good reason.

Please don't feel I'm jumping on you with this reply. Being a new fella in town has got to be tough in so many different ways. I liken it to your children & how their lifestyle was upset when you moved & had to leave their school & Friends behind. Thats where you're at now. It's tough but just keep pounding & hounding Omega!! All it takes is one farmer to talk to his Farmer Friends about how well you respect his land & his Family & things will take off for you. Best of Luck with these coyotes & your hunting adventures!!

I don't think you're jumping on me.  I'm just curious how it is in other parts of the country.  My only experience before coming to NH was varmint hunting in CA and TX and it was a totally different culture where I was before - much more social and friendly.  I never realized how competetive it is in other parts of the country. 

Seriously, if people weren't asking me to go somewhere, I'd just say "Man, we ought to go shoot some -- fill in the blank -- tomorrow".  In a matter of minutes I'd have a half dozen people making suggestions of spots to try and putting together plans to get together for breakfast and go.  I can't imagine that ever happening here in NH. I guess I was spoiled  :wink:

omega 47 here in the east we don't have the land that the hunters out west have.And most of the east hunters have worked hard over the years to get the land we hunt.And I personally well not take the chance of taking someone to the many farms that I have  permission to hunt with the fear of losing that land.

I'm starting to get the picture....

Glad I didn't offend you Omega!! :biggrin:  Troy said it very well & with a lot less typing!! :laf: :laf:

Here in the East we can lose our land if we show it to a "buddy" & that "buddy" brings his "buddies". They then tell the farmer that so and so brought them here & said it was OK to bring a friend. You've lost prime ground & most importantly,, their trust.

I don't think everybody you've run into is being mean or hateful. More like protective I'd say.

Again,, Best of Luck!!  :biggrin:

You keep slamming the hunters here in NH for not telling you were to go hunt.

As I've said before, there are over a million acres of public land to hunt on, about that much unposted private land, and all we've heard you talk about is one place you have been hunting since September, and how no one will tell you any other good places to go hunt.

You keep saying we are all snobs and how everyone in California and Texas is so friendly and willing to take you hunting.    Hmmmmm.....

The picture I'm getting, at least the way I see it, is that you want me to spend my spring and summer scouting, sweating my balls off, getting ate alive by mosquitos and black flies, wearing out my boots, taking time away from my business and my family, to find good spots to hunt while you sit home in the airconditioning with a beer and watch the Red Sox on your big screen TV, and then once I do find a good spot, to draw you a map right to it?

Damn, I guess I am a snob, cause the answer is, "you're kidding me right?"

80% of NH is forested.  If you want to know where to hunt, the first place I would look would be in he woods.   Plenty of them.   All you have to do is look around.

(http://members.aol.com/thogamecalls/omega.jpeg)


All of the green is public land that you can hunt on.  Hope that helps.



Al

Whew - now you've gone over the deep end into looney tunes land.   Get a grip.

What I said is that where I lived before, hunting was a social event.  Group of guys (and ladies) got together and hunted birds, dogs, pigs, varmints, whatever to have fun.   Out here, the attitude is 100% the opposite.  Your attitude shows it perfectly.

I never said I was looking for a handout.  What I said was I was expecting people out here to be a little more friendly and to want to go hunting together.    Like you pointed out, it ain't gonna happen, so lets just agree to be different and drop this now before it gets out of hand.

There's a huge terrain difference between the West and East sides of the Mississippi River. Along with it, whether it be in conjunction or not, comes a difference in population.

I think the populations plays a huge role in the so called attitudes. Where there's more people theres more trespassing, violations, thus making land owners more cautious....hence the attitudes.

Land out west is desolate, wide open, un manned, and mostly government owned, naturally everyone can hunt it. Land in the east is 99% privately owned, and extremely hard to come by. Obvious acre prices should tell us that. People on this side of the river are a lot more protective of what they have worked so hard to obtain and maintain. That's something that will never change, we're not surrounded by miles and miles of unowned horizon.

You are so wrong it's just plain funny.

Deer Hunting in NH is THE social event of the year for many many families.  Many schools up north close down on opening day because no one shows up anyway.  Even the teachers are out hunting.  EVERYONE goes to deer camp for at least a week every year.  Churches, diners, VFW Halls all open at 4 AM on opening day to serve a hunters breakfast.   In Vermont, the two weeks of deer season we have family come in from Virginia and Maryland, California and Florida to hunt.  Our camp sleeps 8 people in bunks, one on the couch and one in the chair.  The palce is ALWAYS full.  So much so that they got a pop up tent trailer to handle the over flow.

Do you belong to a Fish and Game club?  There is a hell of a place to start to make friends who will take you hunting and show you some spots to go.  Might cost youi a couple hundred up front to join, but it's a way in.   Fish and Game has a list of everyone of them in the state because the fish and game clubs are the ones who nominate fish and game commisioners from thier counties.  Ask them and they will give you a list.  If you live near Manchester, I will get you in out club.  Cost you 240 to join and 120 a year after that unless you do 12 hours of work time at the club, then it is 60 bucks.  

Ever called the fish and game?  Ever asked to see the Big Game Harvest Summary?  It is published by law each year.  List all the towns in the state, and what was killed in each town that year.  Turkey, deer, bear, moose.  Any big game taken is reported.  Heck of a place to start.  They even publish on line now at the New Hampshire Fish and Game web site.

Oh, and while you are there looking around, take a look at the NH Fur Beares Report.  Same thing.  Yes, it's for trappers, but if they trap a lot of coyote or fox in a certain town, chances are, you can shoot some there too.

Once you find a town that you think you might have some luck hunting around, call fish and game and ask if there is any public hunting around that town.  They'll tell you.  

Stop asking at gun shops and gun shows.  No one is going to tell you anything there because most of them only get to hunt once or twice a year because during hunting season they are working 12 hour days.  They wont tell you what they hear because if they do, and it gets back to the guy who told them, it hurts their business.   These guys at gun shops are like Priest at confession.  They hear it all but know enough to keep their mouths shut.

Are you a member of the NH Wildlife Federation?  25 bucks a year to join.  You can go to the meetings and meet people.  If you want to be sneaky about it, just mill around.   You'll over hear enough to find a ton of good spots to hunt.   I didn't tell you that though.

Ever been to a Fish and Game hearing?  Doesn't matter if it is about Turkey or Bear or Deer or anything that you dont hunt.  You will learn more in a night at one of those hearings than you will if you spend 10 years hanging out at gun shops and sporting goods stores.  Again, just mill around and keep your mouth shut and your ears open.  Hunters brag about the places they hunt among other hunters all the time.   Sneaky but it works.

You shoot a bow?  Hang around the New Hampton Fish and Game headquarters.  THey have a free archery range there.  You are sure to pick up some info there and make some friends who will show you around.

Now, posted land.  You need to know and understand this completely.  

NH law gives a land owner a property tax break for leaving thier land open, what is called Current Use.  That means they cannot post it.  If they allow hunting on their land, they get another 20% off their property tax bill each year.  This is HUGLY important because NH has no state income or sales tax.  Everything is funded by Property Taxes.  The ONLY people who post their land in NH are out of state people who have moved up here and either don't know any better or have more money than god.   Yeah there are a few loons in the group who think hunters are evil, but most people who post land are not native NH folks.  

Stop telling us how great things are in California and Texas.  None of us care.  If you liked it so much there, go back.   A lot of the people in NH, especially up north have been here for generations.   They have seen what happens when people from out of state come in and try to change things.   If you think they are standoffiish you are right.  But they have good reason to be.  

A couple years ago, the City of Portsmouth elected a woman who came from Mass as a state rep.  She had only lived here in NH for a couple years.  One of her first orders of business was to introduce a bill that would have done away with the right to carry in NH.  They got so many people at the hearings they had to extend them for three days and finally cut them off.  In the end, when it went to committee, even SHE voted agains her own bill because she knew she would never make it home alive if she didn't.

You can hunt and fish year round in NH for 48.50 which includes the habitat fee.  That's about 13 cents a day.  Coyotes are open all year round. Deer season is 30 days, muzzleloader is 11 and bow is three months long.  We have trout, salmon, atlantic salmon, large and small mouth bass, pike, catfish, you name it in our lakes and streams.  This is a sportsmans paradise if there ever was one.  But you have to put in a little leg work too.  

It's time YOU got a grip.  Don't compare us to California or Texas.   You have a ton of opportunities here in NH, but so far, it seems all you have done is whine and complain.   And that's a shame, and a huge waste of your energy that you could be spending finding good places to hunt on your own.

Al

And again, STOP CALLING THEM DOGS.   They are coyotes, or coydogs if you talk to an old timer.  When you call them DOGS you sound like you have no respect for the game you are hunting.  It may fly out west, but here, you sound like a know it all and people will immediatlly be put off by it.  I said it before, and I will say it again for you. 

If you ask some old timer up here if you can shoot dogs on his land, he's lible to fill you full of bird shot.   People up here like dogs.   Family pets and all you know?   They dont want you shooting thiers or their neighbors dogs.  And no, they DO NOT know what you mean. 

This is equally important if you get in a fish and game club or go to a hearing or are at a gun shop.  We call them coyotes.   You call them dogs, and it puts people off.  HUGE mistake. 

You really need to adapt to NH, and not expect NH to adapt to you because it aint gonna happen.

Al