Call critique section

[FinsnFur]

Seen a couple comments on adding a section in the board for criticizing calls.
If you guys are serious...lets git r done.  I just have a couple questions.

What's going to keep it from turning into a 2nd hand call store? Meaning I really like the idea of our current Hand Call store for you folks to sell calls from, but I envision new call makers posting calls for sale in the critique forum just to see if they sell.
I'd rather, if they are going to be for sale and the feed back is enough to make them confident enough to post them in the store, that they actually double post  :shck: ...did I say that?....and put them in the store afterwards.

The other thing. What are your thoughts on preventing trains wrecks? I think were all above that especially considering what this forum will be for, but still feel there should be some guide lines in place.

[Lonehowl]

Question: is there any way that someone can post calls anonymously?
I think it would help people critique calls without feeling they are hurting feelings of the call maker?
Does that make sense?

edit for clarification: I think some guys dont want to hurt certain callmakers feelings. Then again,if a guy starts posting a few calls up for critique, after a while Im sure we would all recognize the style, thus knowing who the callmaker is, making the anonymous thing moot, so maybe thats not the best way to go...

[Coulter]

I'm all for it however you decide to do it. I know getting good honest constructive criticism is very difficult. I'm always up for suggestions on how to make my calls better. I think anonymous would be the ebst route to take...if that is possible. I also wouldn't mind the double post idea.

[coyotehunter_1]

Personally, I'm not a call maker but I do feel a forum like that could be a big asset to some of the call makers who are interested in improving/tweaking their techniques.

The other thing. What are your thoughts on preventing trains wrecks? I think were all above that especially considering what this forum will be for, but still feel there should be some guide lines in place.

A few simple guide lines can be incorporated. We are (mostly ) adults here. I feel as long as those posting their calls are open minded to friendly suggestions (and understand everyone has an opinion) then there will be very few train wrecks.
If persistant problems should arise, the offenders could be contacted (by private message) and a warning issued. 
It should also be understood, from the start, that any problem post(s) or the entire thread/forum, for that matter, can be deleted at any time. 

[Mallardsr]

I think this could be very helpful. A tool used to push call makers to new levels. However the tool must be created. Example: Do we compare a beginner to an old timer? Do we accept a perfectly turned and polished call from an oldtimer, the same good or great quality that we have seen 30 times before or do we question the lack of creativity? Should we require a level of judging be requested by the callmaker on each call? Callmakers speak up.   RP

[FinsnFur]

Good thoughts 

Making a forum that people could post in anonymously is no prob either.  Members could log and in post the calls, and anyone could reply. The thing is, if your a member and you want to post anonymously....you'd have to log out to do it.

One thing about that is that anyone from anywhere at any time could post a reply in there. Maybe that's a benefit, maybe it's a disaster in the waiting 

I do think the room will have to be closely moderated though if we open the door to the public with it, because you'll get freaks that dont even know what a call is, stumbling upon it when Google finds it and provides it to them.

[CypressSlough]

I think this would be a good asset for new callmakers. It would be a great way for them to refine their calls. Just be prepared to take the criticism as a positive push to your callmaking rather than a slap at it. Most of the old timers and established callmakers probably won't post there. They should be allowed to if they want some input. As far as it becoming a 2nd Hand Call Store, simply don't allow calls to be sold from it. If they want to sell it, make them post it the Store. Just my opinion. Brian.

[AWSparrows]

When I first started making calls I posted pics over on PM and asked for feedback. I got the same replies you still see there now, "looking good", "nice wood", "I like the shape", "way to go", blaa, blaa, blaaaa. That was not what I was looking for.
I don't think we should get too critical with a feedback forum. If a person asks for an honest opinions/feeback, give them your HONEST opinion.

As a call maker I don't like to give my thoughts on other peoples calls because I'm still improving my work and do not feel its fair to judge other call makers work. Plus, I feel that just because I do not like it does not mean that no one else will.

I feel opening a forum to the public will get to be problems with stupid posts and spam.

Just my random thoughts
Aaron

[FinsnFur]

Good input Aaron.
The thing that everyone needs to realize, is like you and a few others have mentioned; What looks or sounds like complete dog crap, to one person might be the total opposite to the next person.
Ok...that was a little dramatic, but you all know what I'm saying. It's kind of like car dealerships. What do you think the guys that work at the Chevy dealer think of the vehicles setting over on the Jeep dealers lot? Let's ask em 

All criticism taken whether or not it's in it's own forum should really be considered by it's source. Meaning if one of the Chevy dealers comes down and says, hey that call really looks like my granpa's coping saw handle, why would you sell it for $26 bucks?"
The source kinda dictates what to do with that guys opinion.

A open forum would kind of blindside that theory, but it's really up to you guys.

[MattS]

I agree with everyone on this could be a good thing.  I was like Aaron and did the thing at PM and got all those generic replies when I was really looking for actual critisism.  As long as everyone is honest and don't hold back, really don't hold back.  Then this will work for everyone.

[bearmanric]

i dont see how it will work. when you guy's have a thing with p.m callmaker's. it's like we have a couple expert's all of a sudden. you guy's are alianating people.  i dont want to be told if i'm aloud to use  another tone board or manufactured you guy's are getting way to serios. i'm not in for the money. i concider mine hunting call's. i'm just seeing were this is going going to make thing's worse. there's some great callmaker's and call collector's here. just hate seeing were this is going. i'm saying this in a good way. Rick

[Todd Rahm]

I had a big reply to this but lost it when I hit enter.  

So in short my vot is no. This is what the hand call forume is for. Get them a smilie icon (Fancy) that they put in there post when the want more feed back then "Thats a nice call"

A few simple guide lines can be incorporated.  We are (mostly ) adults here. I feel as long as those posting their calls are open minded to friendly suggestions (and understand everyone has an opinion) then there will be very few train wrecks.
If persistant problems should arise,  the offenders could be contacted (by private message) and a warning issued.  
It should also be understood, from the start, that any problem post(s) or the entire thread/forum, for that matter, can be deleted at any time.  

Uh, PM flashy backs.............flashy backs...........We are adults and no exactly what ya can do.............no need to slap us like that.  

[Todd Rahm]

Rick,

I'm not sure where ya think its going. The way I understand it is the calls will be posted only by call makers  WHO want honest critism, and not false replies. Its simple if a fella doesnt want it he doesn't ask. I tossed the icon idea out there thinking it would less clutter, and keep the number of forums I'm checking down, but with your post I could see where it might be benificial to have its own forum, so those that don't want to participate, don't have to have those post clutter the forums they check. 


And its not anyone forcing anything on anyone at all, but getting away from "Mr. Nicey false replies" to such post (Canned Praise) Where ideas will mingle, and call spinners will be encouraged. 

[Bopeye]

Shoot yeah, it's a good idea. Then if you are really serious about wanting your calls critiqued....you know where to go. Probably put a disclaimer like: If you wear your feelings on your sleeve, don't post here.....
It would leave the other forum for call sales.

[bearmanric]

Todd sorry that make's more sense .callmaking is crazy right now. then Jim has a great idea. Rick

[Todd Rahm]

Jim,

Another thing I read in one of rj's post was a poll. The call maker could run a poll on the call with catagories of his choosen but like

Like it

Love it

Don't like it

Needs changes

Then the call spinner knows by poll results, but the folks voting are being honest with out feeiling harsh.

[Brad H]

I like the idea, I don't think it's ever been done. Definitely worth a shot.

Just realize that if the anonymous permission is used for that forum, and anyone can post and reply without identity, they can request critique on any custom call they have....theirs or not.

If a disgruntled call buyer feels as if they've been taken, they could post the call, then cut it up with subtlety themselves. IPs will catch the second part if not AOL.

Unless that point was already hit on, it's something to consider.

Brad

[FinsnFur]

I didnt think of that Brad 

The poll idea was my first brain fart Todd...but a downfall I felt with that was, they're only going to get basic thumbs up or thumbs down results. I'm thinking most of them are going to want more descriptive insults or praise. 

Oh and what do you guys think of blocking this whole feature from Bopeye  :roflmao:
Jis kiddin Bop!  It is POTFG Day! 

[Todd Rahm]

Ya could vote on what ya think of the over all call in the poll...........anonymos of course, the if ya wanted ya could post ronstructive critisism on a reply?  Just a thought.l

[Ladobe]

I guess I'll have to walk the other side of the road from what's been posted.   

So how does critique based on a picture alone really help a spinner improve his future calls?    With pictures being only as good as they are, they reflect little except the general pattern (shape) of the call and if good enough give a fair idea of the quality of the materials it is made from.   A picture usually can't show the quality of craftsmanship, the quality of the finish, the quality of the "guts" of the call or what its range of tonal prowess is... or the lack of any/all of these elements.

Add that any critique, whether good, bad or indifferent is no better than the person making it.   So are we to believe that anybody who offers a critique on a call really has a clue what is truly a great call or what is just another also ran?   

From the buyers side, call collectors with a large collection of custom calls made by many different builders would have the best shot at an honest assessment IMO.   From the other side, call builders who have learned what makes a great call from years of trial and error experience building calls.   And either also with lots of field experience using mouth calls.   But NO call can be honestly assessed by anyone without having it in hand and putting it trough field trials - period!   

So I won't be critiquing any calls just from a picture.   I would consider that a huge disservice to the spinner.   (why I haven't added my 2 cents worth on any calls pictured on these forums.)

At best this would just be individual opinions on whether they like the pattern or the materials of a call as pictured or not.   Sorry, but as a call builder I don't see much benefit beyond that.   Just what we all need, more canned praise or criticism when neither carries much credibility being formed just from a picture.

Like some of the other call builders, my calls earned their reputation in the field in the hands of serious predator hunters, who then voiced their opinions on them...  not from any pictures I ever posted of them.    And those same users were my best source of critique to help me constantly improve my calls.

Ladobe