A molded CRONK howler?

[AWSparrows]

In the Molded tone boards thread the question came up about Rick Cronks howler sales if he used a molded tone board....... well he made a post on PM (see link below) for thoughts and opinions on A molded CRONK howler. He now has a 2 page list of people who want to buy one.




http://www.predatormastersforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=hob&Number=52526906&page=0&fpart=1

[FinsnFur]

Never thought I'd see the day

[bearmanric]

mr. sparrow's you sound like a tattle tale. Rich is a good person dont  dont say thing's about him.  i look up to the older callmaker's. Rick

[Todd Rahm]

A two page list doesn't mean he'll sell a lot.    His rep/name alone probably filled those two pages. Does he mention what he'll ask for them? I'm sure it wont be for $70. If its priced right for the user he'll sell allot.

If its priced to high, common sense dictates, for a few extra bucks, the customer can get a  real custom horn howler from one of the many howler makers, and has a bit of a personal touch.   

Theres a boat load of production howlers out there ya can have in your hands for a dime a dozen, unless someone finds the magical sales pitch or creates a howler that functions differently and is far better then the rest, it just seem like its not a practical venture.

I could be wrong, and Joe and Loren of KO would be two fellers that might be able to say one way or the other, but don't get excited yet Aaron. 

[bearmanric]

great reply todd. not going to get over 30.00 a little more maybe. Rick

[Todd Rahm]

Well I ventured over to above said post.  I noticed from a board of suposedly 10,000 plus members, of those two pages there was a grand total of 8 orders. Mind ya before a price is even given, so that might be subjetc to change.

It was kinda in the wrong forum, but I guess the moderators over looked that. 

On that same first page I saw a nice howler by Rick for $28, and a couple of nice howlers by Ninth for $40 (By the way ninth the howler that ya had with the tone board made from the horn, is very classy), but what I most impotantly noticed was that Loren auctioned off a molded howler. Now this isn't just the basic molded howler, this was one of the limited run of white ones, and it only went for $37.  With all this information at hand what do ya see in the big picture?

So I stand by the statement I made about Rich not selling as many, if they were molded. 

Now with that said, I ordered a KO howler (Not a white one), and heck I might even order a Cronk one, but my motivations are that of a collector not a user. They might sound super, but I would still spend the extra few bucks for the personal touch of a custom horn howler, and in a couple of cases, pay less. I support all these guys and wish them the best, but don't hold the fact that I'm practical and honest against me. 

[THO Game Calls]

I am glad to see that Rich is going to be able to take advantage of the growing predator call market.  I wish him all the luck in the world with his new venture

He has earned his place and deserves all he gets.   His howlers, antler calls  and Killer Calls made his reputation.   

However Aaron, the point that Rich is going to be coming out with a molded howler is  not relative to the molded tone baord thread in the context that you want it to be.

First, the point we were trying to make in that thread is that if Rich had started making howlers and other calls with molded tone boards, he probably would not have achieved the status he has today.

Your post, tries to put a spin on what Rich is actually doing.  If you read his post on Huntmasters, he says that he is using a cow horn that he himself built, and he is tuning the tone board which is a part of the horn.  He is not using a molded tone board in this call.   He is going to make the entire call by hand, and then have it molded.  There is a difference.   

Finally Aaron, please, understand that no one here cares what you use for a tione board.  If you make them or buy them makes no difference.   If your customers like them, they will buy them and use them.   If they don't they wont.  It's really that simple.   

The art of making game calls should be fun and rewarding.  To make something with your own hands, to hold the finsihed product and then present it with pride for the world to see, to use it in the field to call and take game, is what this is all about.  Not weather you want to use a molded tone board or make your own.

The art of making game calls is also personal.  One may want to make several calls a day or week, and market them as good servicable calls to hunters.   Another may want to make one of a kind calls that may take a week or more to produce.  The beauty of it is that it is your choice.   

It really isn't worth arguing over.  Our time could be much better spent infront of the lathe doing what we love to do, each in our own way.

Al
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com

[AWSparrows]

Tattle tale....... :roflmao:

Rick,
Here are some quotes from the tone board thread. I was simply pointing out that Rich Cronk was talking about selling molded howlers (with molded tone boards) and there is a growing waiting list for them.

And finally, if you think I am completely crazy, or just some nut, ask yourself how it is that Rich Cronk and use PVC for the barrels of his open reeds, sell them for more than just about anyone, and sell everyone he makes.   You think he would be able to do that if he was sticking a molded tone board in the end of a piece of plastic pipe?

Honestly.....yes I think if Rich started using molded tone boards they would still sell.
I truely believe there is more to selling calls for a good price than the call alone.

%110 correct........one thing that keeps me coming back for one is the spinner behind the call.  Very good point Aaron

Todd,
You are correct, money talks and we'll have to wait and see the price and see who still wants one.


Aaron

[AWSparrows]

Al,

In the molded tone boards thread I was not talking about if Rich would be where he is at or not if he was using molded tone boards. I was talking about if he started using them with his Rep. they would sell, rightfully so I guess.

Aaron

[THO Game Calls]

That is the point Aaron....

If Rich Cronk had started out using molded tone boards for his howlers and other calls, he would not be able to sell a cow horn holwer for 70 bucks today.  He would not have the rep he has today and he would not be able to sell them for what he does today.   

Finally, please get your fact straight.  Rich is not using a molded tone board in these calls.

Rich is making the call, including he tone board

He is then having the entre thing molded.

There is a HUGE difference between doing what Rich Cronk is doing and the current trend among call makers today.  Not only predator call makers but duck and goose call makers too.  

What is going to sell this call is Rich Cronks reputation for being able to make and tune a tone board.

Not his reputation for being able to take one out of a box and stick it in a hole in the end of a call.

There really is no need to .....



beat the proverbial dead horse on this issue any longer is there?

Al
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com

[AWSparrows]

ooohhhh......I see said the blind man!

Its acceptable for someone to use molded tone boards as long as they design it and have someone else mold it for them.

Would these still be considered a custom call then??
Or
Is it an acceptable practice only for those who have "earned their stripes"??


I'm not trying to start anything, I obviously do not have a problem with it since I use MTB's. I would just like some clarification as to when and how MTB's are acceptable to use in custom calls.

Aaron

[bearmanric]

just to let people know i spent over three hundred dollar's last week on mandrel's and a jig.  buy's more jig's. when i finnish my shop soon.  i'll have the music playing. sitting there in comfort making a toneboard. i'm excited. OK THIS TALK IS HURTING LORENS BUSSINESS I WAS GOING TO ORDER 50 TONEBOARDS BUT IF I DO WILL I STAY BEING A LOWER CLASS CALLMAKER. THIS STUFF HAS GOT ME MIXED UP I'M GOING TO DROP MY PLASTICSPRINGHORN CALL. DONT FEEL RIGHT MAKING THEM AFTER ALL THE TALK SPARROWS THING WHAT YOUR SAYING ABOUT FELLOW CALLMAKERS. REASON I'M TALKING THIS WAY IS CALLMAKING ON A CERTAIN BOARD HAS CHANGED GREATLY. THERE IS COPYING' NO MORAL'S ANYMORE. IT IS JUST NUT'S. I CANT MAKE A GOOD CALL ANY MORE.NOT FOR THE MONEY EITHER.RIGHT NOW I FEEL LIKE IF I USE A MOLDED TONEBOARD I'M A SHIT CALLER.Rickt

[bearmanric]

my post is towards sparrow's think about how your talking. Rick

[AWSparrows]

my post is towards sparrow's think about how your talking. Rick

Rick,
You lost me,  I'm not sure what your trying to say exactly. 

Aaron

[bearmanric]

your just saying us callmakers that use a molded toneboard isnt going any were. i'm confused not going to make any more open reed's for awhile. just torn what direction to go now. Rick

[AWSparrows]

Rick,

I'm not trying to say that, I use molded tone boards also.
This whole molded tone board mess was brought up about how some call makers using molded tone boards were not doing a nice job of "blending" the molded tone board into the turned call body. I agree with that, some call makers molded tone boards look "out of place" in the call body they turned/made.
I think your open reeds look very nice. You do a great job mating your tone boards to your call body/barrel.

The molded tone boards issue took a turn for the worst after a bit. I was told I should not consider my open reed calls to be custom calls because I did not make the tone board.
I shared my opinions and I mentioned that I was confused about why its acceptable to use a JC tone board in an enclosed reed call but its not acceptable to use a molded tone board in an open reed call.
Ladobe answered saying:

As one who had to make his own internal reeds for many years out of literally everything except the kitchen sink because no commercial reeds were available... I can assure you only a crazy person would still do it.

What I got out of that is, Making tone boards for enclosed reed calls was not easy, time consuming, and a pain in the ass. So commercial reeds were used and accepted when they became available.
Although "easier" than making enclosed reed tone boards, open reed tone boards are not easy, time consuming, and can be a pain in the ass and there is now a bunch of different molded tone boards available so why is using them frowned at ??
I guess its good for the goose but not the gander.

I feel each type has its place,

Custom calls, hand made 100% (tone board & body):
Deserve to fetch a better price, either from collectors, the hunter with money to burn, or the serious hunter who wants something special.

Custom calls, all other calls being built one at a time by a single person:
More affordable calls for the everyday hunter who wants something different but can not afford (or justify) $75-$125 bucks for a cow horn or $45-$70 bucks for a closed reed call.

Thanks for listening
Aaron Sparrow

[bearmanric]

very good post. see i want to make toneboard and i'm going to soon. everyone has there call price's way down.i dont want to use my real good wood's. i had a great price on to killer tuned snakewood call's last week. everyone want's the cheap stuff. this is kinda sad to say but i use to buy alot of the other callmaker's call's. i dont any more. so i have a idea were todd and yo guy's are coming from. thing's have changed for the worse. sorry Sparrow's if i implied anything this call making stuff is messed up right now. Rick

[THO Game Calls]

The only people you two should be concerned about how they view your calls are your customers and the collectors down the road.  What anyone else thinks doesn't mean a thing.

The mere fact that you try justify what you use in your calls though, says you are uncomfortable about it and want other call makers to tell you it's OK to use the molded tone boards.


OK - if that is what you want


It's OK To Use Molded Tone Boards

Happy now?   Chill out.  This isn't PMS.   You can post your calls here and no one is going to beat you up about what you make or what you use or even what you think.   

Aaron, I have not seen one person say anything negative about any of your calls on this forum.

Rick, I have not seen anyone say anything negative about your calls on this forum.

Seems to me, the only two people beating this dead horse are you two guys.

Give it up. 

Use what you want, make the calls you want and be happy.   If you want to fight, go back to PMS and have at it.    Life is too short you guys, just make the best calls YOU can and learn to live with it.   

AL
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com

[bearmanric]

sorry tho make it sound like were not going to be anything if we use molded tone board's when you get like this no use talking. i'm done using the molded toneboard just to much bullshit.   i'm going to check out some machinest this week see about getting jig's. Rick

[bearmanric]

sorry every one i just come here and that's all i see is your not a custom call maker if you use the molded tone board.  i got caught up in it yes i feel like the call's i make are infurior. work very hard on my call's.  sorry if i caused a problem. take care. Rick