Why Deer Hunters Should Be Coyote Hunters

[eleaf]

All Deer Hunters Should Be Coyote Hunters

http://hornsandhorns.net/2013/11/why-deer-hunters-should-be-coyote-hunters/

Check out the rest of my site too!

[weedwalker]

Just wondering,  at the LBL a couple years ago you said you had never hunted before, and now you are writing about how to do it?

[Carolina Coyote]

This year in Georgia they stopped taking Does in Two zones during the month of December due to dwindling Deer herds as a result of Coyotes killing of Fawns and grown Deer, Last year we trapped and killed 20 Coyotes on our property and we did see more yearling Deer this year but we also are seeing more Coyotes and so far have killed 7 this year.
I agree ever Deer Hunter should also be a Coyote Hunter. cc

[eleaf]

Just wondering,  at the LBL a couple years ago you said you had never hunted before, and now you are writing about how to do it?

Who's writing how to do it? Is there anything in there that can be construed as "here's how you hunt?"Is there anything there that you can show isn't valid? I present data (as in the coyote predation post), and write about my own experiences hunting, such as the lessons I've learned because of my inexperience. I don't need a lifetime of hunting to do either.

If you have anything constructive to add that shows you've actually read the site, I'd appreciate it.

[KySongDog]

 

[weedwalker]

It's your site, put whatever you want on there. But some hunting experience would lend credibility to a hunting site. I was just asking a question. Apparently I struck a nerve.

[eleaf]

It's your site, put whatever you want on there. But some hunting experience would lend credibility to a hunting site. I was just asking a question. Apparently I struck a nerve.

Here is a quote from the very first post on the site ("A Hunter")

After making dozens of calls to outfitters in various states out west, I finally decided on one in Wyoming. I was fully forthcoming in my inexperience and was seeking a guide who would do more than show me some deer and tell me which one to shoot, but someone who would teach me the skills I needed to find them myself, how to determine which one to kill, how to kill them in the most humane way possible, how to find it once I had killed it, and what to do with a deer after I found it. Hunting is a year-long process made up of many steps, not just the pulling of the trigger. This blog is a reflection of that process from my experiences.

The blog is about my experience learning to hunt. The entire point is that I don't have a lifetime of experience. They are stories. The lessons I've learned and the occasional bit of data that I find interesting or useful.

I never claimed any kind of expertise. In fact I've been very open about my inexperience.

[weedwalker]

OK. And you can quote this too if you want.

[eleaf]

This year in Georgia they stopped taking Does in Two zones during the month of December due to dwindling Deer herds as a result of Coyotes killing of Fawns and grown Deer, Last year we trapped and killed 20 Coyotes on our property and we did see more yearling Deer this year but we also are seeing more Coyotes and so far have killed 7 this year.
I agree ever Deer Hunter should also be a Coyote Hunter. cc

Keep after it. You may never be able to get rid of the buggers, but you can help minimize their impact on deer if you keep at it.

Remember also that if you don't trap year round the data points towards a heavy regimen of trapping in the few weeks leading up to fawning season as being reasonably effective in minimizing predation on fawns. They'll come back (as your experience shows), but if you can remove them from your property for just long enough right before the fawns drop, most of those fawns should have learned enough to avoid being eaten by the time the song dogs come back, and that should help your local deer herd.

[FinsnFur]

Id like to think wolves would be included in those stats. Eleaf what part of the country are hunting??

[eleaf]

Id like to think wolves would be included in those stats. Eleaf what part of the country are hunting??

I'm in central KY. No wolves for hundreds of miles.

The study I quoted is from is even further from wolf country in SC. In the study they ran DNA tests to try and determine whether depredation on fawns was a proverbial rogue coyote or just a small number doing most of the killing and found that all of the samples but two led to individual dogs. Only twice had the same coyote eaten a fawn.

The numbers are staggering. East of the MS, particularly the southeast, never had any sizeable coyote populations until relatively recently. They've migrated from the west where they have evolved to find and eat fawns. Deer in the east never had to evolve the ability to avoid coyotes finding their newborn fawns, and even though eastern deer once had to hide their young from red wolves, they have been gone from this part of the country for 150+ years and have no basis to avoid them. They will learn what they need to fare better against coyotes, but it takes time.

[nastygunz]

Bears like venison also:

What Predators Kill Fawns?

By Dr. Dave Samuel
Len C. from Pennsylvania writes to ask about black bear predation on deer. "We've got a very healthy bear population in Pennsylvania, but we also have a lot of coyotes. I've read that both will kill fawns, but my gut feeling is that coyotes are by far the worst culprit. Are there any recent data on this?"


Dr. Dave Samuel
Actually there are, both from Pennsylvania and Newfoundland. What that data shows is that in these two places bears and coyotes are responsible for the same amount of fawn mortality. I believe that the numbers go something like this. Of all the fawns that die, coyotes take about 35-to-40 percent, while black bears take around 30 percent. I'm always surprised by this number for black bears, but apparently they do take a percentage of our fawns. Note: this doesn't mean that bears kill 30 percent of all fawns that are born. What it does mean is of all the fawns that die, bears are responsible for around 30 percent.

Dr. Dave writes a weekly column for sportsmansguide.com. If you have a question for Dr. Dave, e-mail your question to Dr. Dave in care of Tom Kacheroski, senior editor of www.sportsmansguide.com's content at tkachero@sportsmansguide.com. Dr. Dave studied deer for 30 years as a wildlife management professor at West Virginia University. In addition he has been a bowhunter for over 40 years, with deer being his main prey. He's also an outdoor writer and has been with "Bowhunter" magazine for 31 years.

[weedwalker]

I'm in central KY. No wolves for hundreds of miles.

http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/Officials-confirm-gray-wolf-killed-in-Ky-219749481.html

[slagmaker]

I'm in central KY. No wolves for hundreds of miles.

http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/Officials-confirm-gray-wolf-killed-in-Ky-219749481.html

Wonder when wolf hunting is gona start in KY?

Seems like i remember where Indiana had a gray wolf that had wondered in from out west somewhere.

[JohnP]

Not to get into a pissing argument BUT.  Coyotes are not to blame for all predation on deer, out here we have in addition to coyotes, black bear, mountain lion, bobcats, wolves and that big killer -- the automobile.  I know that when we visit friends and relative in the east we see numerous deer laying on the roadside.  I would venture a guess that in PA more deer are killed by cars then we issue deer tags for in SE Az.   Years ago I did some (private) depredation work for a handful of ranchers.  Whenever a rancher found a coyote eating a dead calf his first thought was the dang coyotes are killing my calves.  There could have been a dozen reasons why that calf died, but the coyotes get blamed for it.  Biologist will cut open a coyote and find deer/calf remains and come to the conclusion that the coyotes are the culprit.  Until recent years very few examined the "victim" to determine the cause of death.  Don't take my comments the wrong way here, I'm not looking for an argument and I do call and kill coyotes on a semi-regular basis.  Recreational callers do absolutely nothing to control coyote predation.  The only effective way to control them is calling, setting steel and aerial gunning.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

P.S.  Should have also listed the domestic/feral dog to the list of killers.

[slagmaker]

Wolves, coyotes, cars, bears, feral/domestic dogs, cats of all kinds, rednecks with an agenda. There are all kinds of reasons for fawn mortality.

If your hunting one kind of game and another shows up its up to the individual hunter to make the decesion on what to do. I have seen a bass fisherman loose it when he kept catching crappie.

[gravesco hunter]

I agree that deer hunters should hunt coyotes,I will pass on a deer to shoot a coyote,if I am deer hunting with bow or gun and a coyote gets were I can take a shot he is going to get shot,some hunters think that shooting a coyote while deer hunting will ruin your hunt,but I have shot coyotes then minutes later have a shot at a deer.

[eleaf]

Not to get into a pissing argument BUT.  Coyotes are not to blame for all predation on deer, out here we have in addition to coyotes, black bear, mountain lion, bobcats, wolves and that big killer -- the automobile.  I know that when we visit friends and relative in the east we see numerous deer laying on the roadside.  I would venture a guess that in PA more deer are killed by cars then we issue deer tags for in SE Az.   Years ago I did some (private) depredation work for a handful of ranchers.  Whenever a rancher found a coyote eating a dead calf his first thought was the dang coyotes are killing my calves.  There could have been a dozen reasons why that calf died, but the coyotes get blamed for it.  Biologist will cut open a coyote and find deer/calf remains and come to the conclusion that the coyotes are the culprit.  Until recent years very few examined the "victim" to determine the cause of death.  Don't take my comments the wrong way here, I'm not looking for an argument and I do call and kill coyotes on a semi-regular basis.  Recreational callers do absolutely nothing to control coyote predation.  The only effective way to control them is calling, setting steel and aerial gunning.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

P.S.  Should have also listed the domestic/feral dog to the list of killers.

The study I quoted was specifically about a local population of deer in a 300 square mile area in SC. It wasn't meant to speak for all areas, but can be somewhat correlated to others areas in the southeast.

They focused all of their analysis on examining fawn remains rather than coyote stomach remains. DNA tests from around the site where the collared and constantly monitored fawns were found dead shows that the vast majority of the deaths were caused by coyotes, over 70%.

[HaMeR]

I'm happy if something comes by so I can look at it. 

[Carolina Coyote]

P.S.  Should have also listed the domestic/feral dog to the list of killers.


For sure where I hunt the feral dogs get special attention!!! cc