knot for fly to tippet

Okanagan · July 20, 2018, 11:36:48 AM

Nasty, or anybody: what knot do you use to tie fly to tippet?

I struggled on Sunday, lost a number of brookies and flies to breaks and knots that came undone. At my age it is unusual to be struggling with what knot to use!

For decades I used a figure 8 Turle knot, which worked but once in awhile let go. I tried the George Harvey dry fly knot but never got it down to tie easily and quickly in bad light and instructions say that it is for flies smaller than 10. I use more # 6 than anything else and often #4 hooks or larger. On Sunday I started with the Double Davy, but for me it seems to break easily and once in awhile lets go. That is not what others report so maybe I am not trying it correctly. In frustration I broke back the tapered leader to 12 lbs. or so and went to an improved clinch knot. I should have taken the time to change the old leader because old weak line may have been the breaking problem.

I really like the way the line comes straight out of a bent eye hook with a Turle knot. I just noticed a YouTube video of a three wrap version of a Turle knot put out by Rio fly lines. It looks like it will hold but I have not tried it.

What say you, anybody?

nastygunz · July 20, 2018, 04:28:34 PM

"You have securely joined all the pieces of your tackle system â€" backing, line, leader, tippet and fly â€" and you have learned the basic knots of fly-fishing. The most important of these is the Improved Clinch Knot â€" the one you use to tie on your flies â€"because you will use it the most."

I mostly use the improved clinch knot. For Pike,Bass,stripers, bigger fish with bigger flies or streamers I usually use a Palomar knot.

I also use these fast clips pretty much all the time they make it so much easier to change flies and you don't have to keep a retying and clipping your tippet:

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nastygunz · July 20, 2018, 04:38:30 PM

When it is dark or cold or raining and my fingers are frozen I find simple is best so that's why I usually stick with the Clinch knot. It sounds to me like you said it might be a line problem rather than a knot problem.

Okanagan · July 21, 2018, 09:04:13 AM

The more I think about it the more I am pretty sure it was bad line. It was my first fly rod foray of the season and I just went with the leader that was on there. I put on new leader yesterday and am wondering whether to make another trip up there or wait till Fall.

Re the little fly clips: Good reminder. I like them for some uses, not so much for others. I should use them more for regular fly fishing. A friend I fish with loves to troll flies and we use them when trolling streamers. I like them for very small lures, like the tiny spoons we use for shad. They make it easy to change flies but one time when we trolled there was no question that the clip was not getting bites like a no clip line. Usually they make no difference. I haven't used them most fly casting, nor with dry flies, though use them for big salmon flies sometimes.

In asking around, it has surprised me how many fly fishermen use an improved clinch knot to tie on a fly. It is an excellent knot, always my fall back knot, but I keep hoping for something more form fitting to bent eye hooks. I am going to try the RIO fly line version of Turle a few times because I like the way the lines comes straight out of the bent eye hooks.

We need to get into feeding trout and give this some serious testing! A few times I've been on lakes in BC when big moth type bugs are coming out of the water and trout averaging 2 lbs. are rising all over the lake. It sounds like pigs feeding on soupy slop.

nastygunz · July 21, 2018, 10:01:29 AM

I am convinced I could go anywhere in the world and catch trout on a White Miller dry fly, my go to!

nastygunz · July 21, 2018, 10:09:27 AM

Best tool ever!

nastygunz · July 21, 2018, 10:11:08 AM

Im also a big fan of the Uni-Knot.

Okanagan · July 21, 2018, 12:01:34 PM

Nasty, you are an encyclopedia of info! I asked in the right place!

I have never used the nail knot tool, am pretty good at tying the nail knot, but that makes it a lot easier. I will pick one up.

During my knot quest of recent days I also discovered using a hackle plier or maybe better, a forceps, to grip the end of a tippet and use it to tie a fly to tippet knot. It makes tying the Double Davy super easy, and makes a clinch knot much easier. YouTube videos.

One summer when driving across a bridge on the Columbia River in Castlegar (?) British Columbia just before sunset, there was the most amazing hatch of white moths I have ever seen. It was like a blinding blizzard, could barely see the road and my windshield was running goo before I was halfway across the bridge. Only one fly fisherman was wading and casting in the river below. The trout must have been going berserk.

I have a white moth fly but have not fished it in ages. Next trip! A major fly for the interior of BC is called a Green Sedge, which is a name for a moth. The bugs come in variations of grey and green or brown body with grey or brownish wings and when they are emerging from a lake, the trout pig on them. A fly called a Grizzly King is close enough to work.

My most productive flies have been a Black Doc Spratley, a sparsely tied Dragonfly Nymph (hard to find it tied that way), Muddler Minnow (usually fished dry which I assume looks like a grasshopper), long shank Royal Coachman or California Coachman, Golden Pheasant, a small Renegade in #10 or 12, Green Sedge, Black Gnat with red butt, and a thing called a Bivisible in brown and white. Our trout have not read eastern fly fishing books, and they seem to think that a sloppy big fly landing with a splash indicates a full meal deal rather than being spooked by it.

nastygunz · July 21, 2018, 01:09:27 PM

I have had some spectacular successes with the bi vis! I don't know if I am a wealth of information on flyfishing but I am very enthusiastic about it, it has been a calling my whole life. The first three years i fly fished the only fly i used was a muddler minnow!

Okanagan · July 22, 2018, 09:51:52 AM

My favorite bi-visbles are all gone and I have not been able to find any more tied like them. They were tied sparsely with very long hackle or fibers or whatever they make the "hair" out of. Then I fished them wet, like a streamer. Big rainbows loved them in # 6 or 4.

Many years ago when I lived in the middle of good, close by fly fishing, I fly fished frequently much of the year and did not yet know much about. I bought quite a few from a primitive resort on a lake where I often fished. They were all tied very sparse and very hard. Man they were tough. They lasted through many fish without getting soft or chewed up, and they were super effective on trout. They worked.

I never asked the resort people who tied their flies but wish I had. As the years went by, we moved, and those flies are no longer available. I see many flies of the same name or pattern and turn up my nose at them because I recall how that person tied them and the current ones do not match up. I could spot that tyer's flies in a moment, and one time found some of them in a country store a few miles from the resort.

I've been looking at flies online, very low price, but am wary of what I might be getting. I have a lot of flies but need to replenish my old favorites, some of which are entirely gone.

nastygunz · July 22, 2018, 10:40:29 AM

I always keep my eyes peeled on craigslist for flies for sale and also local auctions. I buy from this company also :

https://www.bigyflyco.com

I really like fishing with terrestrials, like big grasshoppers especially are fun on trout and bass.

FinsnFur · July 23, 2018, 09:12:42 PM

never heard of it.
I use the Rapala knot.

nastygunz · July 23, 2018, 09:23:14 PM

Dear Lord please use your grace and higher power to turn Jim champion towards the divine light of the flyrod, amen.

Todd Rahm · July 23, 2018, 10:44:30 PM

When I tie them I use a similar tool and knot that Nasty posted up, but here lately I have been using the loops more often then "knot"

I have a handful of variations on that tool but the coolest looks like a fish skeleton and is on my key ring.

slagmaker · July 24, 2018, 02:26:54 AM

I want to learn fly fishing so bad. I have a rod and reel setup that my cousin Baloo gave me a couple years ago but I really need a teacher so I can learn to cast properly. Right now my casting looks like I am shooing flies away.

nastygunz · July 24, 2018, 04:15:31 AM

One good day with a professional instructor will cut years off your learning curve. There are also some good videos on YouTube that might help. Hit me up anytime if there are any questions you have that I might be able to help you with I'm not too bright but I try hard

I would also look around your area if you could for a Trout Unlimited chapter, you could probably get a ton of help from them also and possibly some coaching for free.

https://www.tu.org/connect/chapters-councils-near-you

A lot of the state fish and game department often offer free fly fishing seminars and classes also I would check your home state website for that also.

slagmaker · July 24, 2018, 05:55:26 AM

I will do that when I get home. First thing I really need to do is put new line and such on this as what is on it is probably 10 years old

nastygunz · July 24, 2018, 09:43:55 AM

Putting a new line On will make a huge difference. I would get as good a one as you can afford.
Good read:

https://blueridgemountainlife.com/fly-fishing-for-beginners-a-complete-guide/

Okanagan · July 24, 2018, 11:13:52 AM

Quote from: nastygunz on July 24, 2018, 09:43:55 AM
Putting a new line On will make a huge difference. I would get as good a one as you can afford.
Good read:

https://blueridgemountainlife.com/fly-fishing-for-beginners-a-complete-guide/

An old time fly fisherman friend of mine once told me that the line is far the most important item of fly fishing and that a good line with a mediocre rod is far better than the reverse. Don't know if that is true but he was good. I haven't spent a lot on line, but have gotten by with sale items and over the years gradually improved by upgrading when something excellent is on sale. Line weight MUST match the rod weight. Each will have a number, like #5 line and # 5 rod.

A half hour of casting alongside someone who knows what he is doing would be superb. I like to stand on a dock that extends into a lake so you have wide open space in front and behind you for backcast. For most fly fishing, you don't need to cast very far.

The huge mistake almost everyone makes when starting to fly fish is that they over do, overpower and put too much effort and muscle into it. It is a light touch, subtle nuance thing, that feels wonderful when right even if no fish bites. Good gear used with the right timing always has a good feel to it IME whether in a shotgun, bait caster or fly rod.

The second error universal is to force the rod tip too far forward and too far back on each cast. That makes the line drive toward the ground rather than ahead, and is super frustrating as a man adds more and more force to try to get the line to go where he wants but is unconsciously directing it down into the water too close in front of him. With the rod tip straight up like a clock hand at 12:00, do not go farther than 2:00 on back cast nor farther ahead/downward than 10:00 on front cast. All the fly fishing instructions say this and they are right. When you master that you can work on the exceptions like side casts under overhanging brush...

(I love it when wading BC lakes and a trout grabs my fly behind me when I make a sloppy backcast that sags to the water. When that happens, they are feeding!)

For 20 years I used nothing but a $5 discount bin fiberglass fly rod and a low cost level line. (Fly lines come in various "tapers", like thicker in the middle, thicker on the front end, or the same diameter for full length, which is called a level line). Probably caught more fish on that $5 rod than all my others combined since because I fly fished a lot in those years and lived in the middle of some of the world's best fly fishing. My son took over that rod, used straight 6 lb. mono for a leader and was a trout slayer like rich New York yuppie fly fishermen only dream of.

On a back pack trip one summer, I watched him wading a wide thigh deep flat in a lake near timberline with rising trout all around him. He hooked a trout almost every cast and got to laughing when one of them ran between his legs after taking the fly. Dazzling sun, laughing 14 year old, wonderful memory.

I'm not a purist but a pragmatic fly fisherman. I just like to catch fish and when trout are eating bugs, it is likely the most effective way to fish, plus it is a pleasurable way compared to heavier rods and reels.

nastygunz · July 24, 2018, 11:23:32 AM

Great post! Especially about the line. It's funny how the fiberglass gave way too high tech graphite and other substances over the years and now there has been a sweep back towards the fiberglass because of the beautiful action it has. If you look around and get a chance to pick up an old fiberglass fly rod I would highly recommend it or even buy a new one which they now market once again. I like the classics, old cars,guns and old fly rods.
Like Okanagan said, simple is best!