Are Predator Call Underpriced

[Bopeye]

Without much knowledge of what it takes to make a call I'm gonna go out on a limb here. Imagine that!!?

Here goes nothing......

I believe there happens to be a certain segment of the call making circle that is solely in it for the money. Not sure how you make much money selling calls, but I guess just like anything else, there is always an angle a guy can take to make money.
Having said that, I believe there are very few of these people here. I'm sure there are a couple, but I have already pretty much got them pegged.  
If you think I'm talking about you in this department, then there is a good chance you have a guilty conscience.

There is a vast majority here that seem to be in it for the love of making outstanding calls. I own a few and hope to own many more, but the craftsmanship is awesome. Some of you are dang good call makers, while others are artists pure and simple. I would name some names, but I would be afraid of unintentionally leaving someone out and I sure don't want to cause some hard feelings.  I have talked with a few of you and plan on talking to more of you.......

If I had a few thousand dollars just laying around, there are several of you that I would have already bought from and plan on eventually doing so anyway.

Having said all of that, yes I think several of you under price your calls.....in some instances way under price. However, as already mentioned before, many of us are just blue collar working stiffs, so if you get too pricey, no matter how bad we want your call you might price several of us out of the market.
Coyote hunting is my hobby. It's my thing I do when I've taken care of my responsibilities. That means paying the mortgage, feeding my kids and putting shoes on their feet will always come first, then if I get blessed enough to have a few extra bucks, it will go to my favorite pastime.........coyote hunting!!!

I surely hope I haven't insulted anyone, that was not my intentions. Just throwing some thoughts out there.  

[FinsnFur]

I just wanna know who the other two "Your a trouble maker" voters were 

I'll git em for ya Al 

[Todd Rahm]

Calls are priced just right.  I view a lot of the market through Ebay.  I have purchased beautiful flawlessly checkered duck calls for $35 to $65 that are as good as any of our predator calls.  Its a myth that modern duck calls go for more than comparable predator calls.  There is a guy on Ebay named Faigly who carves spectacular duck calls and sells them for about $35. All these calls have hand made custom tone boards.  In the Fall prices go up and its hard for a predator call maker to keep up with demand, hunters seem to catch a fever and cost is no object .  Now, in the middle of summer its hard to sell a hundred dollar call for $35.  We seem to be operating in a nearly perfect supply and demand market that determines price.  Basinboy is right,  all custom calls should be signed.  Adds value and shows pride.

Ninth, your reply kinda quandaries me, if they are priced just right, why do they double, triple and in some cases quadruple before they hit your Ebay store?   

http://www.americangamecalls.com

[ninthinning]

I buy calls for what they sell for and sell calls for what I think they are worth.

[studabaka]

There are lots of businesses in lots of industries that are based on that very concept. It's not without risks, costs, and investment. It is pretty std fair in the world of art/collectibles as well as the completely different market of scrap.

[Todd Rahm]

So what your saying is...and correct me if I'm wrong, but......predator calls aren't priced right, unless they are being purchased for re-sale?  You buy a call that is priced right based on the return you might get on it?

[Bopeye]

Just by reading ninth and Todd's posts alone tells me that calls are underpriced. If you can buy a call for what it sells for and turn around and sell the call for what it's worth..........then wouldn't that mean the thing was underpriced to begin with? 

Please, somebody correct me if I am wrong on this. 

[Pilgrim]

Ninth, please also forgive me if I'm off base on this...   But it really does look as if what you mean is calls are priced just right, for you (to be able to make a few bucks on them).  It seems to me that if they were priced just right, purely capitalistically speaking here, then they would be priced at exactly the most that a builder could price them up to the point equal to the most a buyer is willing to pay.   But what you seem to be implying, once again, is that they are priced just right to benefit you as a re-seller, and not the builder...which, I believe, is misunderstanding the spirit and intent of the original question.

Edit to say:
I guess I should have read more.  This is basically what I'm saying -

CypressSlough stated:

As far as calls being priced right, they are priced just right for someone that buys and re-sells them. I'm not trying to stir anything up Ninth. I'm just stating from a sellers point of view, they are priced right, but not from a makers point of view.

[studabaka]

I hear what you guys are saying and their maybe some imbalance [both ways] on pricing of individual calls, but the notion of builders getting precisely what the market will bare implies perfect liquidity, perfectly matched supply and demand, and perfect awareness of the total market by both buyer and seller. It also implies that the maker also has a totally complete marketing, selling, and distributing process. The entire retail industry exists through bridging and filling these types of gaps.

The stock market sure don't work that way  which is ok by me.

[Bopeye]

I hear what you guys are saying and their maybe some imbalance [both ways] on pricing of individual calls, but the notion of builders getting precisely what the market will bare implies perfect liquidity, perfectly matched supply and demand, and perfect awareness of the total market by both buyer and seller. It also implies that the maker also has a totally complete marketing, selling, and distributing process. The entire retail industry exists through bridging and filling these types of gaps.

The stock market sure don't work that way  which is ok by me.

Dang.....with that kind of insight to the capitalist reality you really are freaking me out Stu. 

[Todd Rahm]

Fellers,

I'm not questioning Ninths business aspects, that's between him and the call makers. I do have feelings about the whole issue, but has more to do with the pride of the call maker, then it does Ninth.

Ninth,

I have seen ya post in the past, predator calls are under priced, and you confirm that with........

I buy calls for what they sell for and sell calls for what I think they are worth.

But, what I don't get is why ya didn't answer the question with "Yes, predator calls are under priced and this is why I believe so...."

It seems to be a conflicting statement of interest, but made in a way that seems.........well, makes your intentions look questionable?  

[vvarmitr]

Seems to me Nin' is saying that he pays a call builder what he asks & he sells his own calls that he made  for what he believes they're worth.

Now if he is into reselling calls an buys a call for what the Call builder asked & believed it to be worth more & tried to sell it for more; that's just business.

[Todd Rahm]

VV.............I got that part figured out.    Its the answer to the question with the counterdicting actions and statements, I don't have figured out.  I just thought I might not be understanding something., or wondering why not an honest answer.


Would ya want to do business with a store owner that came out and marked all the price tags up 30%, then put a 15% off sale sign in the window? After all its only buisness. 

[rainshadow1]

There's so many angles to look from ...

Eric has bought my calls and repriced them on e-bay, and I don't have a single hard feeling about it. It's what he does, that's fine, and I'm back out at the lathe trying something else I've never tried before. I get the price I deemed satifactory, and he gets a margin. No sweat. Honestly, I hope he sells them for his price, that's good for my reputation.

As to what they're worth.

As a seller, it depends what you want to get for it.
As a buyer, it depends what your want to spend on it.
If the seller wants to sell it, and the buyer wants to buy it, they'll eventually meet in the middle, and that's what that call is worth. Simple economics. 

A handmade, unique call with exotic or rare materials can be valued two ways. For instance, it can be valued based on what it's made of, how long it took to make, how unique it is, and how nicely it came out. Then again, it can be valued based on the functionality, and how that functionality compares to other items readily available. (The hunting aisle at Wally, for example.)
First valuation, it's gotta be over a hunnert bucks!
Second valuation, $9.95!

Thankfully, some consideration is given to the handmade factor, and most buyers are willing to go $19.95, or $29.95!
At the same time, some makers are going for pure art, and charging accordingly, and waiting around for the right buyer.

Predator hunting hasn't moved into the tweed jacket stage yet, so it's more functionality than art or status. Someday, maybe, but not yet.

Are they underpriced? Sometimes. Same as anything else.

[THO Game Calls]

A handmade, unique call with exotic or rare materials can be valued two ways. For instance, it can be valued based on what it's made of, how long it took to make, how unique it is, and how nicely it came out. Then again, it can be valued based on the functionality, and how that functionality compares to other items readily available. (The hunting aisle at Wally, for example.)
First valuation, it's gotta be over a hunnert bucks!
Second valuation, $9.95!

This is the biggest problem facing the Custom Predator Call Market today.

When we say that "A handmade, unique call with exotic or rare materials can be valued two ways. For instance, it can be valued based on what it's made of, how long it took to make, how unique it is, and how nicely it came out" we relegate ourselves to the ranks of hundreds of other wood turners who know nothing about actually making calls but are just trying to make a buck off a growing industry.  And people are starting to catch on.

That's why you hear serious coyote callers saying that the custom calls don't sound any better, and in many cases sound worse than store bought calls at less than half the price. And this is killing the custom predator call market.

Many guys today buy a lathe, and tomorrow they are turning out the

<<<<<<<(((((((THE WORLDS BEST CALL - PURE EYE CANDY)))))))>>>>>>>

and selling it for 30 bucks or more because everyone else is selling them for 30 40 or more bucks too.

We ALL start out trying to make a good looking calls. 

The best call makers though, learn to work with their calls design and develop something that actually works and sounds good at the same time.

That is one of the biggest reasons that so many experienced call makers only have one or two designs of calls that some folks call their "signature" calls. They have designed these calls and tweaked them and they know they WORK.

But what we are seeing more and more of today, is guys who are good wood turners making calls, and really not taking it to the next level.

That's the reason for the comments from the experienced callers, and it's why you see calls on E bay with starting bids of 4 or 5 bucsk that NEVER sell.

If you do a little research, go back 4 or 5 years, you will see that when a custom call maker posted a pretty call, the call buyers would say,

"it sure is pretty, but HOW DOES IT SOUND?"

Today, all you see is "Oh man that is EYE CANDY" or "Man that looks great" or "You have done it again, outstanding"

You don't see too many people asking how a call sounds.

The other thing we seem to be missing, is the pictures of guys with dead coyotes called with the calls of a lot of the new call makers. That used to be a common thing. You still see it with some of the experianced call makers, but not so much the new crop.

So are Custom Predator Calls overpriced?

If you are a call maker, here is how to answer that question for yourself.

Ask yourslef how many calls you sell to the SAME people, in other words, repeat customeers. How many people buy two three four or more of your calls?  If it's a lot, your calls are probably priced right, maybe even underpriced a bit.

If on the other hand, you sell a lot of calls to a lot of different people, but not many come back for a second or third, you might have some work to do to become a better call maker and your calls RIGHT NOW, might be overpriced.

The sad fact today is, a lot of these good call makers are being grouped in with the

<<<<<<<<<<((((PURE EYE CANDY)))))>>>>>>>>>>

crowd, and it is hurting them too.


Al
THO Game Calls
www.thogamecalls.com
The Custom Call Makers Supply Store

[FOsteology]

Interesting topic. One that probably wouldn't last long on the "other board".

Surprisingly, not allot of talk regarding sound quality is discussed on the various forums. I'm a noob to the sport, yet in the past three years I have noticed an increasing number of new call builders and more emphasis on aesthetics.

Most of you have either been calling predators for ages, and/or building/making calls for many moons. For my own curiosity and education, I would like to know who (top 10) makes the best predator calls in your opinion.

[rainshadow1]

That's going to be a fun question to watch get answered, FOs, because it will show how the respondents judge calls and callmakers. Kind-of a good mirror too... To show oneself how you judge calls and makers. Guys like Todd are the few who could speak with any authority, owning walls full of different calls. What is everyone else going to use as a ruler?

It's a relavent point, Al. No question. It's another factor that'll be fun to observe if Fos' question gets answered. What is the criteria in defining "best?"

Lots of cheap production calls have fantastic voices. You ran through them in another post. I've bought production calls that I've thought enough of to tune my calls to match. (I've also bought production calls that I've torn down and monkeyed with, because they were useless as they were.) It's THE ONLY factor in a production call. It's one of a few factors in an "eye candy" call.  I don't think it's safe to be so dogmatic. Criteria qualifying a call as a good purchase are the buyer's own pleasure.

[Todd Rahm]

Welcome to FNF FO. 

How goes the call collecting?

[Hawks Feather]

Fos,

Welcome to Fins and Fur.  I hope you enjoy it here as much as I do.

Jerry

[Arkyyoter]

Welcome William......good to see you here 


Joe