Rainshadow..........

[THO Game Calls]

Making calls used to be a craft, a hobby.

Now, it's a business.

Problem is, some call makers want it both ways as long it it suits them.

On the one hand, they want to sell the calls at a good proffit and run a business

On the other, they want everyone to share what they know with them, and even EXPECT it because it's still a craft and a hobby.

I'll wager that the same guys who don't mind seeing Eric buy their calls and resell them at huge profits are the same guys who wont hesitate  to pick your pocket for all you know about making calls so they can sell THEIR calls for even more, and when you don't want to give up something, give you attitude and snide remarks about it.  Then proceed to tell everyone what a prick you are because you kept something to yourself.

Now aiint that the shits?

Some of the comments in this tread have really pissed me off.  I think it is time to go spin some calls.

Al -

[Todd Rahm]

Ninth I spent 30 minutes typing a reply.........some you might not like........and some ya might........but any rate it will have to wait till later for me to re type it.

But, one thing is for sure a lot of folks aren't being honest with ya about your business, your calls, or selling ya calls, and if they are ...............well then they aint being honest with me and a few others.

Oops forgot to mention the first reply vanished when I hit enter.

[awh]

There are a certain few makers that go out of their way to help anyone that asks. And we all know who these guys are. If not for this type of people that are willing to give info so freely, how do we learn the process so fast without wasting alot of time & money?
It's sad to think that these people are also being picked apart every time you turn around. And for what? Being honest? Sharing?
Al has info posted on every site I have been to and if not for him, how many would still be trying to figure something out??? He goes into details and when asked a question gives an answer. It may not be what your wanting to hear, but I am willing to bet it's the truth.

For us being a mob....Rain, you really need to look at the whole picture and dig a little deeper into this forum. As already said, we voice our opinions in the way we want and don't have to worry about someone editing them, deleting them or pissing everyone off, as we know up front, it's how things are and everyone has their own opinion. For an example...Take a look at the older posts in the call section and see what is said when someone asks about a call. It's not all glitter and gold talk telling them something just to say it. They are told the opinion of what that person thinks and then it's up to them on how they use that info. If they use that info.
That's some of the reason I call this place home. Everyone is honest and everyone helps when a question is asked. And if by chance someone doesn't like something, they will tell you up front. Ask sunshine what I think about him
For the thing on the calls, that's Eric's choice. We all know that. The rest of the people that replied in the post were giving their opinion on what they think and saw. And it was done because we are human and have those different thoughts on how things should be done in such a small sport we all love.

[straycat]

Well I really don't have a horse in this race other than the fact that I am a proud member of this so called 'mob' but,.......I think that you two ( Rain and 9th ) are like two egg suckin pups.You are so insecure about your abilities that your always yappin' around the Big dogs trying to get noticed,both of you have made some snide remarks then tried to cover your butts.

  There are people on this board that acually care about something other than money and are not afraid to show it and don't rely on the 'buddy'  method to made them feel good. You both have said and done things that people did'nt agree with and you got called on it,now,be men and live with the fact not everybody agrees with your methods, if ya can't than your in the wrong place.

[Mason_Jarr]

So, if a fellow buys a call from someone and pays their asking price and the said calls then becomes his property which he decides to turn around and sell for "3 times" what he paid for it, that's a business and unethical?  But if a fellow buys a bulk pack of reeds, or pieces of wood or sticks of acrylic rod which then becomes his property and he turns around and sells those to other people for 3 times what he paid for them, that's a craft?  I don't see the difference.  Of course, I'm not a smart guy as evidenced by making such a post.

[awh]

Seeing how its your 1st post here it's pretty obvious on where ya came from to reply.

[Mason_Jarr]

But do you have an opinion on what I had to say or are you just going to dis me for where I came from?  Didn't you come from there, too?  Until you got kicked off I mean.

[awh]

I see your point on the calls and if you read above you see where I said it's Eric's choice.

And for me being here, I was here long before the redfag banned me over there. Why did you come? Stirring or because it's a better site.

[FOsteology]

Why did you come? Stirring or because it's a better site.

This IS a better site..... however, I'd wager it was simply to stir the turds.....

[Mason_Jarr]

I've been here for awhile just haven't had a reason to post.  I thought I had some pertinent comments to make, so I did.  Eric has one of my calls on EBay.  I didn't know he was selling them there when I sold it to him, but even had I known I would have sold it because he paid the price I was asking.  If he can sell it for a higher price good for him, I say.  I made what I needed to and if he does the same, it's all good....to me at least. 

I certainly don't try to "stir things up".  There's plenty of that without my involvement.  On the contrary, I try to post things that might allow people to see a clouded issue from a different perspective.  It's my experience, though, that people will be as they are.  It definitely makes the world more interesting.

In my studies of human behavior I ran across a model called the Johari's Window.  Without getting into great detail a basic premise is how we see ourselves is not always the same as how other people see us.  So, often in conflicts we tend to take the holier than thow perspective and criticize a person for something that, in essence, we're just as guilty of.  It's an easy mistake to make.  That was the intent of my post.  I did not intend to aggravate or agitate anyone.  But, I also knew that intentions and outcomes aren't always the same and someone would likely take offense.  Honestly, I didn't think it would matter if it was my first post or my hundred and first.  It, to me, was still pertinent. 

Can, I take this as my welcome aboard?

[Mason_Jarr]

FOs,
   How much would you wager?  This site is touted as a place to speak your mind, but yet when you do you're "stirring the turds"?  Big assumption on your part. 

[FinsnFur]

I don't think we need to pounce on the guy after his first post, especially since he closed it with the sentence that he did.

I think we all got our blood pressure up over the debate involved with the actual thread.

Welcome aboard  Mason_Jar, giving you the benefit of the doubt here I think you picked the wrong topic to introduce yourself in.
If you really did stop in to stake a claim in the debate, you may find that your a little over your head this late into it.

[awh]

First, you are correct. We should have welcomed you.

WELCOME TO FNF Mason Jarr.   Glad to have you and hope you stick around for more than this topic.


I was not bashing Eric. If it came across as that then I need to change it. Eric has the right to do as he wants with the items he buys. I think we all agree on that. But to some people it's more than the money, it's the way we are brought up, the way we think. Hell, I like Eric. He's never did me wrong. But if I have an opnion I'm going to voice it just as I hope everyone would do the same.
As for my opnion on why you decided to post now, it just seems funny that PM guys hit certain subjects and are not heard of again till the next hot topic is brought up. See what I'm saying here???

[Mason_Jarr]

Thanks for the welcome.  I've been reading it all along and I read the other post as well.  I'm tracking!  I might not fall in line with the popular opinion, but that's OK.  I appreciate their perspectives as I hope they will mine.

[THO Game Calls]

He asked a valid question, and he deserves a fair answer, since it was directed at me I think.

We all know that most retailers buy in bulk and then sell for a profit.  

I do the same thing.   I am pretty up front about it.   Most guys who visit my store, and then shop around, come back to my srtore unless they have an axe to grind.

Here's why

My acrylic rod is 18.95 a foot.   The only other place on line you can buy acrylic rod by the foot sells it for 32 bucks a foot.

And I just found a new distributor that I can get it from for about 5 bucks cheaper, which means, when I update the site this weekend, my price per foot will come down a buck.   They will still be selling it for 32.

My bulk JC reeds are a bit less than anyplace else, but if you only need 5 or 10, no problem.  You dont have to buy 25 at a time.  

My game call reeds, deer, duck, owl, are all about 25% less than any online dealer.  Please check for youirself.

My wood, is all hand picked at the distributors by me.   Each blank.  I do not buy it in bulk.  I go, I pick the best stuff I can get, and if I wouldn't turn it, I wont buy it.  And I sell it for about 25% less than anyone on line.

My brass and other metal bands are the same.  About 25% to 50% less than anyplace else, and I am the ONLY place on line you can get copper and aluminum.

My decorative bands sell for 5 bucks.  I know a place you can get different ones.  They go for anywhere from 15 to 25 each.

Most guys know that if they are board members, call makers here or even on PM, if they contact me directly, I give a 10 to 15%  discount too.

Now, do I make some money off this?  Yes I do.  It is after all, a business.   The people who sell to me know that I am going to resell thier products too.  Nothing shady about it.  

If eric wants to buy calls from other call makers and resell them, that is his business.  Just like the manufacturer who told me he only sold to distributors though, I do not have to sell to Eric.  

Howevere, there is somethig else here - something some of you may have missed.

When asked if predator calls were under priced, Eric first replied that he thought they were priced just right.

Now how can that be "right" if he buys them and then doubles the price in his E bay store?

Should not his answer have been,  "Predator calls are WAY under priced, and I will buy them all and sell them for what I think they are worth because of it."

But just like me, he doesn't want to pay more for anything.  I want to pass the savings on to my customers, while Eric wants to make a profit.  Think about that one for a minute.  If he buys a call for 25 and sells it for 75, that's not a bad deal.  But if he has to buy it for 50 to resell it for 75, the deal is not so sweet.  So the problem here is what Eric said when he replied.

On one hand, Mason, you are right.  Both, in some respects are businesses.  Both try to make a profit.  It's a valid point.

On the other hand, as a "distributor" of my calls, I have the right to not sell them to him, just as any distributor has the right to not sell his products directly to me.  

We have the right on this board to debate this.   As I said in an earlier post, this topic was brought up om PM less than a year ago, concerning the same thing.

PM however, pulled the thread.

Welcome to FnF - and I hope I have shed some light on my position for you.

Al

[Mason_Jarr]

awh,
  I do see what you're saying and I can understand why my post on this particular topic could seem like I have ulterior motives.  I don't.  Just had an opinion this time.  I bounce between both sites and others as well.  I read (hear) more that I write (say).  Dad said that was the way its done with two ears and one mouth.  
  I'm a good guy.  I know you don't know that, but I'll tell you.  With 29 years and counting in the military I tend to say what I want to.  I also defend your right to do that.  I certainly know we won't always agree.  I'd still buy you a beer though.

[awh]

I apologize for my attitude concerning your 1st post. That's not who I am.....all of the time. :roflmao: (I need Bops sensitivity training 101 class)

And you may have just found a friend for life w/ that beer offer. I likes a cold beer or tweleve  .

[FOsteology]

FOs,
   How much would you wager?  This site is touted as a place to speak your mind, but yet when you do you're "stirring the turds"?  Big assumption on your part. 

Not at all, unlike the other board, you can "stir the turds". Stick around. After some time in the community you'll begin to see and understand there IS a difference.

Welcome to FnF.

[THO Game Calls]

Problem was, no one welcomed him when he came in, so he didn't get his stick.  Not his fault.   We'll gt him one asap   :roflmao:

AL

[awh]

Stick...Hell o. All I got was the elusive merit badge.....