Rainshadow..........

[Mason_Jarr]

Al,
  Honestly, I was talking about you.  But, I wasn't faulting you for turning a profit.  I also don't fault Eric.  As I said, as long as he paid me what I wanted for my call I didn't care that he was going to resell it.  I was a litte disappointed that he offered it for sale because as a fairly new call maker I was pretty stoked when another maker bought one of my calls.  I thought that meant I was doing well enough to impress him.  I'm still OK with it though.
  Since we're just meeting, I've been to your site many times.  I think you're one of the most influential call makers around and I admire your willingness to share information.  I don't always understand why you get upset when people copy that shared information.  Isn't that why you put it out there?
  I'll stick around here, but I mean it when I say I read more that I write.  I promise I'm not here to cause trouble though.

Mike

[studabaka]

Heck...I'll play a bit in this fun summer game  

I think the thread [kinda got to combine this with a couple other threads to get the whole game] has a couple of worthy points and a whole bunch of bouncing off walls which seem aimed at baiting, peeing on shoes, and chest pounding.

It's quite entertaining and even a bit educational and informative.

The message I take away is not what folks do or don't do with the freedoms of business or speech that they are blessed to have, but how they do them. 9th has a right to his website and what he does with things that folks agree to sell him. Maybe he did or didn't do a good job upfront at being clear on his intentions. Sounds like in a few instances the folks he got stuff from didn't clearly understand that he collects calls for the purpose of reselling them and maybe they would not have sold them to him or sold them to him at the price they did had they clearly understood.

I know that car dealers around here sometimes run 'clear the lot' specials and often make the statement 'no dealers please'. I'm not really sure why.

I would think that folks intending to resell would want to maintain good, positive relationships with their suppliers and I also think that suppliers need to be a bit discerning about the prospective buyers if they care about what happens to the call they sell and they base their pricing on that assumption.

I think the point of all these posts is not about the right to free enterprise. It's about clear communication and mutual respect for the intention that each has in the hobby/craft/business. I also think that if you choose to participate in a true freedom of speech board that you need to acknowledge that folks will say things and in ways that might be different in what you think or how you would say them....... as long as they ain't talkin about your mama you kinda need to take that in stride.... unless your intent is to squable, stir, or what ever else ya want to call it. In the latter case you'll generally find a buddy who is more than happy to squable back and it is a bit entertaining for those just watching, though sometimes it's more silly than anything else....... The good news is that those options are pretty open to ya and how ya want to participate and be viewed when your playing on an uncensored board.  

[rainshadow1]

Very well said, Stu.

Sometimes when the topic is one that is deeply held by the reader, his responses can have a little fire in them. At times that passion can turn personal. It happens, it shouldn't. A person of character will back up after he cools down a bit and repair the damage.

Dealerships that have deep discounted sales exclude other dealers because they're usually hoping to finance the cars. They make tons on the intrest. (I don't carry paper, for a bucketful of reasons. But I know what they do. Talk about unethical!)

[Hawks Feather]

Mason_Jarr,

First off, welcome to Fins and Fur.  I hope that you will enjoy it here as much as I do.

Just my view, but I think everyone looks at each thing a little differently than the next.  By that, just think back to the old story of the blind men describing the elephant; it is huge, it is like the trunk of a tree, it is round like a snake, etc.  What will trip my trigger might not bother you and what might trip your trigger might not bother me.  I have expressed my thoughts on ninth selling calls in another post.  I do appreciate that ninth posted that he is reselling the calls that he buys in The Work Shop on Predator Masters and that if someone didn't want him reselling them that he would not buy them.  To me, that is the correct way to handle it.

While I don't sell reeds, I do buy them in bulk.  I also buy the wood and anything else that I need to make a call.  And when the call is done I sell it for more that the parts cost that were used to build that one call.   I have no idea, nor do I want to even think about, the total cost of the tools that I have, the electricity to run them, wood, parts, the time involved, etc.  (It would be scary and might convince me that I should be doing something else.)  Nor do I know the total cost of the components used to make calls that I have not sold, but given away.  I enjoy making calls, spending time on the lathe, and even more hearing from people that have either bought or been given one of my calls.  Do I resent the fact that JC Products are selling me their reeds for more than it costs them to make them?  No, but they also know up front why I am buying them and I know that if they don't make a profit they will not be making more reeds.  If I know upfront that you are a reseller, I might or I might not do business with you.  Heck, I am taking wine bottle stoppers to a winery next week.  BUT I know that they are going to be reselling them.  If they implied that they wanted 20 stoppers for their collection I would start to wonder.  And if I went in the next time I was around and they had marked them higher and had them for sale, I would know that I was not getting all the story.  Do I care that people mark things higher than their cost when they sell them?  No.  As I told one person, "I feel fortunate to have grown up in a time and was instilled with the belief that "profit" was not a bad word, but "excessive profit" was."  I just want people to be honest and upfront with me.

Again, welcome to Fins and Fur,

Jerry

[DirtyDog]

I think some ideas are being lost here guys. Most of you know, and some don't, this site is not all about big profits. People here give freely. Information, goods, you name it. Some people see what you are doing Rainshadow, as bad because of this reason. I personally don't disagree with them because of that fact. I do not disagree with what you are doing, just that you are doing it here.

Just my opinion.......by the way.......welcome Mason Jar.

[Pilgrim]

Ninthinning stated:

I have polled the call makers and there are three that do not want me to buy there calls and resell them on Ebay.

Ninth, with all due respect, and with no offense intended (and even though I wasn't one of those polled) ......Please make it four.

[FinsnFur]

Ok...where's my Windex

[studabaka]

  feels like bailing a leaky boat. 

[Bills Custom Calls]

Which Call Makers were polled

[Bopeye]

Just for the sake of whatever you wish to call it, I'm going to tell a story. 

Now keep in mind this story is true.

Almost 20 years ago, a friend of mine and I use to go shoot pistols together. We did a lot of shooting and he had a pistol that I admired quite a bit. I always told him that if he ever decided to sell that pistol to give me first shot at it and he agreed to do so. A few years passed and a lot of outings, when he decided he had fallen in love and got married. He called me and told me that he was going to sell that pistol to help get started with his new wife. He priced it, but then said, "Since you are my best friend, I'll sell it to you for less". He sold me that pistol far cheaper than what he could have gotten for it, but both of us were happy.
Time passed and we saw less and less of each other due to having our own families, work, etc., but we did stay in touch.
Then almost six years ago I had my second child and needed a little cash for whatever reason. I priced that pistol to a fella for far more than what I gave for it and he bought it. I hated parting with it, but just brushed it off as needing the money for my baby. Deep down in my soul I always felt like I had betrayed my friend though since he could have made more money than he did off of it and he had been needing the money himself at the time. I hadn't even called him to give him a shot back at the gun. I just felt like a trust had been violated.
When we would see each other we always had a good time and then one day a couple years ago, he asked if I still had that pistol, because he would like to buy it back. I told him I had sold it. I'll never forget the look on his face.......ever. Now I really did feel horrible, so I started looking for that gun so that I could buy it back and then sell it back to him for what he had sold it to me.
I never got the chance. My friend died in September of stomach cancer.
A few months ago a guy at work came to me and asked if I wanted to buy a pistol. I asked what kind and he told me. It sounded like the same pistol, so we went to his truck and there it was...........I would have taken out a loan to get this gun back. I bought it and took it to my friends dad and gave it to him. We both wept and talked for awhile.

My priorities have never been more set than they are now. Not because I was taught it (even though I was), but it was because I lived it.

I hope that somehow my friend knows I made things right. 

[HaMeR]

Cool deal there Bop!!

[vvarmitr]

Carnsarnit Bop, Ya got me a little choked up there.

[Carolina Coyote]

VV you break me up :yahoo:cc