I wish they would change the laws?

LBLDOG · February 07, 2008, 07:50:46 PM

I wish they would change the laws on Buckshot in KY. The laws in LBLand statewide are no BUCKSHOT in KY. I was just wandering what you guys thought about it ? You guys know in LBL that FEB you can use centerfire, well that means we could take a BARRETT 50 CAL legally and hunt with it or a sya 30-06 and so on but they frown on #4 BUCK as being Illegal. I have abuddy that is a game warden in the county and I asked him and he said the reason for this law was that some rabbitt hunters would carry )) buck in there pocket and when they would jump a deer they would shoot it. He said like always a few people ruin it for every body! I shot one a month ago with a turkey load and it ran off and it was at 25 yards. I was so mad for this happening I went out and bought some DEAD COYOTE loads.

DirtyDog · February 07, 2008, 07:57:28 PM

We here in TN feel your pain......we are restricted to #4 bird shot during big game seasons.

Bopeye · February 07, 2008, 11:56:32 PM

I hear ya LBL Dog. I lost a coyote last year in the LBL. Hit him at about thirty yards with a 10 gauge. Problem was the #4 birdshot I had in the 10 gauge.

He wasn't the only coyote I lost.........

It do suck for sure. Went to the AR not long after that.

Jimmie in Ky · February 08, 2008, 01:22:31 AM

Our problem is just what the Game warden stated LBLdog. Poaching plain and simple. Thats why road 304 in the LBL has been closed for the last 3 years, they have no intention of fixing it or they would have done so already in that period of time.That is also why we lost the privelage of hunting in the moonlight. Folks don't follow the ruiles and I don't think half even bother to read them. Sales of spotlights shot way up when folks found out htey could hunt coyotes at night, they didn't read the danged rules and some if they knew them ignored them becasue they were to lazy to learn how to do the job. I worked my can off all one winter learning how to do it and lost it two years later.

They can't catch them all in the act so such laws as we have to deal with are made. That way if during a random check they find illegal ammo they can hang them for that without there even being a deer present.

The laws we have to put up with in december and january in the LBL, are there because of bow hunters . They don't want us out there with a centerfire rifle while they are in the woods. They don't want stray bulles flying around. And if you ask the rangers they will tell you it helps them as well. If a man is in there during the normal seasons with a high powered rifle they know they are poaching and can hit them with a lesser charge without a deer present. And to top all that off the poachers have even started using bows in there because the rangers are getting so tough on them and coming too close to catching them in th act. Jimmie

HaMeR · February 08, 2008, 05:34:02 AM

Jimmie nailed it!! Well said.

I have a hard time identifying on night hunts & actually let a coyote walk once last winter. The dang thing just looked too big with the light I was using. When it got downwind of me & barked I realized it was better to hunt during the day. For me anyhow.

Jimmie in Ky · February 08, 2008, 06:47:52 PM

Heck, we found an arrow that was definately shot from the road. No way it could have ricocheted off and got where it was or pointed the way it was. And they did this from a road within sight of the main highway in there. When you check out the newer archery gear and sighting systems on them, it would be easy for them to operate them by spotlight. And it's obvious someone is doing just that. They have the laws to th point here that it is almost illegal for a farmer to be out checking his stock at night during the calving season because of crap like this. Jimmie

studabaka · February 09, 2008, 07:57:06 AM

The problem I have with this is that the thinking ain't all that different than the gun control thinking...... set broad laws restricting the freedoms of all and the honest man is the only one losing....... They would be more successful letting hunters hunt and offering bounties on poachers.

Jimmie in Ky · February 09, 2008, 12:13:09 PM

But would that work, Stu. Mainly the only ones that know what these guys are up to are the ones buying the meat or thier buddies and family. Will they turn in thier brother or buddy even for cash? I have myself put the word on a many of the loud mouths over th years for free. I know what this is doing to the rest of us, as much or more than most.

Say you know of a man selling squirrels at a buck apiece. You turn him in. Wheres the evidence your telling the truth. Are the ones buying going to tell on him? How would they be able to prove it without there being something over the possession limits in his freezer? He's selling the evidence before he gets home and never has more than the limit on him at one time? What do you spend on a sting operation to get just this one man? Is the word of a single individual enough to cause the investigation of just one person? This is a true story too!! This a hole was making a hundred a week!!

Or what about the guy that was drinking buddies withth local officer? It took calling frankfort to get this one.

Another big timer is a cousin to an officer. Who the heck is going to nail him? He has a large past record but is still at it after all these years.

One pair operated for years never getting caught. They sold deer for 75 a carcass. They are the reason this part of my county does not have the deer numbers in it to this day that the rest of it does. The turkey flock is not expanding here like the rest of th county. These guy's were an inspiration to many young men around here and they grew up with this attitude of taking what htey want when they want. Even to th point they would steal livestock if they felt like it. You have no proof that so and so is doiing this when you go to the law, your just trying to make trouble for someone. Every one around here is related to these two individuals and the others in the game now. They won't turn in family and will give anybody hell who does if they find it out. But at least they stopped stealing my stock.

Look at the recent live animal trade bust's that have happened. It took years for this to come to light. I was hearing rumors of this years ago but had no proof of it.

These are just a few of the tales I can tell about this subject.

Greed drives this type of activity most often. It's either money oriented or they want that big buck at any costs.

Here in this state we tend to not trust government at all. Folks only remember the bad government does and not th good. And when you look at some of what is going on in your state congresses you will find that a few are paying for what others will be getting. This is a tendancy in governments everywhere. So why in the heck should we expect anything better from the government on game laws?

Only men with honor follow the laws !! Jimmie

studabaka · February 12, 2008, 06:03:35 PM

Yup...a challenge for sure and I don't disagree with the points you made...... but tell me how curtailing an honest man's rights rationalized by it then being easier to catch violators [not sure that's even statistically provable, though I'm sure there are plenty of anicdotes] is any different then the argument being made by guncontrol advocates which push to take hand guns away from the honest man on the presumption that it will make it easier for law enforcement and safer for the population.

I just ain't buying into that kind of 'logic'. Maybe it is harder and takes more resource to execute a valid, effective, targeted approach..... We spend a bunch on taxes under the fundemental premise it best protects our rights and then we continue to give up rights and pay. The system is broke, the logic is flawed, and accepting it simply perpetuates it...... I'm not suggesting we should break laws, but we shouldn't be smiling when they ask us to bend over

Bopeye · February 12, 2008, 06:11:51 PM

Quote from: studabaka on February 12, 2008, 06:03:35 PM
Yup...a challenge for sure and I don't disagree with the points you made...... but tell me how curtailing an honest man's rights rationalized by it then being easier to catch violators [not sure that's even statistically provable, though I'm sure there are plenty of anicdotes] is any different then the argument being made by guncontrol advocates which push to take hand guns away from the honest man on the presumption that it will make it easier for law enforcement and safer for the population.

I just ain't buying into that kind of 'logic'. Maybe it is harder and takes more resource to execute a valid, effective, targeted approach..... We spend a bunch on taxes under the fundemental premise it best protects our rights and then we continue to give up rights and pay. The system is broke, the logic is flawed, and accepting it simply perpetuates it...... I'm not suggesting we should break laws, but we shouldn't be smiling when they ask us to bend over

A BIG FAT +1 for Stu. Ya nailed my feelings exactly, just couldn't put it into words...........

KySongDog · February 12, 2008, 08:21:56 PM

Laws only apply to the law abiding. Criminals, by definition, don't obey the laws and poachers are criminals in my book. More laws and restrictions piled on top of existing laws and restrictions do absolutely no good. I say DRT the a**holes in their tracks.

Semp

Jimmie in Ky · February 12, 2008, 09:56:32 PM

I am not saying roll over and play dead by no means Stu. I was extemely vocal over the loss of what night hunting I did have for a few years. Didn't do a damned bit of good. They don't know me personally and have no idea of whether I am honest or not. I even tried to meet with my commisioner and could not. He just would not take the meeting.

It's the crooks that have caused these laws we have to pay for as honest men. But the big question is always going to be ,how do we change th attitudes of those that just don't give a crap? Or better yet how do we change the attitude of the greedy men out there doing this for profit ?

What could we do to get heard in the system ? I could join the league of Ky sportsmen but I would soon get kicked out because I don't play politics. They just ain't enough shyster in me to put up with them anyway

The idea of a state predator hunters ascosciation was brought to me. Some wanted me to jump in and help out with getting it off the ground. I turned them down for personal reasons. It never happened as far as I know. It may have done us sme good just as the state trappers group is doing. But we will never know. This happened about five years ago.Jimmie