Knight & Hale's New Predator Call

[Krustyklimber]

George,

Actually, thanks for getting that ball rolling... I had, but deleted it from my post, knowing it could be taken the wrong way (because I am me).

I don't think K&H "copied" Al, because only in one view does it even look like Al's call (the bulb on the K&H is flattened... I've seen it in black rubber on some kinda old call).

On top of that, the K&H bulb is rubber, and that creates a "pressure pump" effect (I KNOW I've seen this thing before...), and that pump is driving a open reed style toneboard not a JC/Wintress type reed!

The trumpet form is anyone's, and that, to me, is the only real similarity in the reality of what these calls ARE... not what they look like.

Sorry Al man, the only thing I bring, is my truthful opinion...

Krusty

[George Ackley]

Your welcome , Anytime

[Krustyklimber]

Al,

In retrospect, my attempt at humor was probably ill timed. For that I apologize.

I'm actually "with you" in a lot of ways... big post to follow.

Krusty

[Krustyklimber]

Al,

Let's start with "are you over-reacting?"

I dunno for sure, only you do, but maybe?

The biggest thing you have to gain solace from, as I already stated, is that call isn't what your call IS (in soooo many ways).

But I am totally with you, in your gut reaction at the sight of the thing... you think I didn't throw a tantrum when I walked into Sportsmen's Wharehouse and saw that not only was someone using the double reeds I do, but dude even used my word!?!

The reality is though, as I said, your calls are so much more than anything Knight & Hale have ever made... I mean c'mon dude, it's the worst of the worst, you don't need to sweat them.

Do you think that for one minute, a guy is going to look at your work, look at that obvious POS from K&H, and decide he's not getting a custom call after all?
(*If he does, screw 'em... he wouldn't have cared about the call you made, like he should, anyways!)

It's the same thing for me...  when I saw your wooden howler (or any of the other recent stuff like it)... do you think I thought "oh crap, now some guys aren't going to want Krusty Kriers anymore"?

Nope, not for a nanosecond. 

I thought the same as I did (when I calmed down) about double-stacked reeds... "If someone else thinks it's worth doing, he must think have a good idea, and I took it as a compliment (even if you had to drink a buncha beer to think it was a good idea). 

And it took a while to calm down, and I did over-react, so maybe you'll share that?

The other thing you have to take solace in, is the fact that you are so well respected in the call making community.
Your peers rallied around you, on sight alone... that says a lot.

Most of all, though, the K&H call isn't "what yours is" (it's an enclosed large toneboard howler, with a rubber bulb and a PLASTIC bell... that in a photo, from the proper angle, looks sorta like your call).
So try not to let it bug you, man.

Krusty

P.S. Lemme ask you somethin' AL, "Why was it okay to "snipe" my idea?" (*Your words, not mine)

Was it because what you came up with looked different?

What about this case, they came up with a different idea, but ended up with similar looks?

Where's the line in the sand?

I'm confused...

[George Ackley]

                             
                                                       Ya,, what he said

[Frogman]

I think you blow into different ends of the call!?!? 

I used my muddy bonker last night and it still tastes bad. 

Hey Al, I am supposed to blow into the funnel end, right!?!?      

Jim

[THO Game Calls]

Krusty,

let's start with I didn't even take the time to read your second post.

Lets just leave it at this   

[Krustyklimber]

Al,

That's your choice, and your loss.

Krusty

[cb223]

Well I got my new Predator Extreme magazine in the mail last week. As I was paging through it I saw the new K & H call. My first thought was, that looks alot like one of Al's Bonkers.

It does resemble one of Al's Bonkers. But would I buy one of the new K & H calls, no! Why? Because I know even if the shape is similar I know that the quality is not even close.

The THO calls that I have and have seen are far superior to anything that I have seen or heard from K & H.


In my opinion if someone wants to copy your idea, it must be a good idea. Take it as a compliment.

[Krustyklimber]

CB223,

Thanks for summarizing my post, for Al.

Krusty

[yotehunter74]

just a simple question to start.... am i correct from reading the above... Al's call is running a jc style reed ??

[Ladobe]

"Just over reacting again."

Not meant to single you or anyone else out... but it sums it up extremely well and applies to lots of call makers.   And that's a fact.   

Would anyone with at least 2 living brain cells actually have a hard time differentiating between a finely made custom wood call and a mass produced piece of plastic/rubber?   Does anyone really have a patent on their custom design that they may or may not have been the very first to use?   Hundreds/thousands of designs are tried and discarded by custom call makers every year.   So technically is it their design being copied later by someone else?   How many call makers can raise their hand and say they make calls that do not have ANY of the ideas/designs/innovations of other call makers who came before them in one form or another?   Yep, not a single hand - including from those who started making calls back when they were still making dirt.   If you did raise your hand you are just kidding yourself.   Imitation is a form of flattery and using new innovations is simply called progress.   We'd all still be blowing on leaves stretched between our thumbs without the innovations that are incorporated into every custom call made today.   Everyone just needs to accept it, not let it get under their skin and give their ego a rest.

I learned and life is sure simpler now.

L.

[bigben]

just a simple question to start.... am i correct from reading the above... Al's call is running a jc style reed ??

it is running a jc style reed atleast I believe mine is.  but I believe al blades em to make em sound the way he wants em.  you have probably messed with more of the knight and hale stuff then anybody here I would guess. 

[Krustyklimber]

Yotehunter74,

Yep, JC style reed, in Al's design.

I haven't test driven the new K&H, but I expect just from looking at the photos it's just a fancied up version of their old Model 927.

Apples and oranges.

Krusty

[Jimmie in Ky]

It's basically the SOS they marketed last year and the year before. Just added the bulb for the beginer's to the sport as they put it .Just pop the bulb off and the oldtimers have that open reed style they prefer. Marketing crap for another call they sell. And that is the way the call companies do bussiness today. At least Primos had the sense to buy Randy Anderson for their promotions. Jimmie

[Yotehntr]

  Funny, only thing Al had to do was put a picture up... I guess when I saw it my imagination ran away too.

[KySongDog]

Maybe it was inspired by THO's bonker or maybe not but If anyone thinks K&H won't swipe a call design, you don't know them very well.   



Semp

[Bopeye]

Outside of K&H looking like a POS made of rubber, I would swear they stole Al's design and I don't give a flying rat's rearend what anyone says........I'd be as pissed as AL.

I'm a broken down, fat man with one bad rumble left in me.............I'll go with ya Al.  

[Jimmie in Ky]

They will all swipe design ideas. All you have to do is talk to some of the folks in the area that have done bussiness with a call compnay to find that out. Most of the call companies out there are using someone elses ideas to begin with. Ethridge used to supply parts for K&H until they sold out. He then tried to sell some of his ideas to another company with no luck, but guess what that company had the next season? Yep, similar but enough changes to make the new toy theirs.

I have to agree with Ladobe, There isn't much out there that hasn't already been done or tried. Somebody sees what you have done and they tinker with it to fit what they do or make it better. They adapt it to fit something they already do hoping to improve sales. Everybody does it.

I even know one call maker that try's anything and everything. His ideas come from what if I take this and try to make that. He's used duck call bodies to make predator calls and PVC Pipe to make turkey calls. Nothing is sacred fellas   Jimmie

[Rich]

Knight & Hale should have stuck to turkey calls.    I went over to their site, and couldn't help but notice a blatant copy of a Dan Thompson howler in there. Hey, did you guys know that the Tally Ho call was made by copying the innards of a Lohman duck call?  A discontinued model, but still a duck call.  In regard to the K&H call that looks sort of like one of Al,s designs, there is no way their call can do everything they say it will do. It ain't on their site yet, but I saw it advertised in a magazine. Nothing but a bad joke in my opinion.