Knight & Hale's New Predator Call

[yotehunter74]

Rich,  which call was that?

[Rich]

yotehunter74,
K&H calls it their "Hecklin' Howler. You can see a good photo of it on very first post in this thread. The barrel of this call is way too long for the small diameter it has. You could likely get some pup sounds out of it, but not adult coyote howls, and what howls you get will likely not be very loud. Without being able to see the mouth piece or reed body, I can't really say much more except that if you took the goofy rubber syringe off and threw it away, it would work a little bit better I suppose. Now if you fitted that thing with a well tuned J.C. reed, you could use it as a rabbit call I guess. 

[Jimmie in Ky]

Harold and Dave are just doing the promo stuff now adays. The company they work for owns their brand and does the design work in house. They don't even use the former suppliers of parts K&H once used. Jimmie

[HaMeR]

  Did the teletubby jump on the K&H train? 

If you're reading this tebbe feel free to send me an email buddy. 

They sure did copy the shape of it but I doubt they can match the service/sound from a dedicated custom call maker tho. I wouldn't buy it for the simple reason I don't like the looks of the materials they used. It looks extremely cheap & breakable to me.

[Hawks Feather]

I have been gone a few days and just skimmed posts, so I am a little late in posting this.  I have not seen the call, other than the picture, but the shape sure looks like one of Al's Bonkers to me.  Is it as good as a Bonker, I seriously doubt it, but since I don't plan to get one I will never know.  I am well aware that there are only so many styles and that my calls may look like someone else's call, but when I (or another call maker) posts a call and have something that looks like a duplicate posted it does not make me feel too good.  And before anyone starts, I am not looking for sympathy or any bull like that, just stating my view.  Some people may agree while others disagree, and that is not a problem to me.

Jerry

[FinsnFur]

The K&H version is just a toy aint it?  I'm with HaMeR, I think it looks like something you'd find at Walmart hanging up by the Bicycle horns.

Al, I say do a mock up, all non transparent plastics, carve some mold lines in it, and call it Nite&Hail

[bigben]

so yotehunter how does this call sound?  arent you on K+H field staff?  I imagine you have used this call before right? 

[THO Game Calls]

Let me clear up where I stand on this.

Did Knight and Hale copy the shape of my Bonker Calls?

Yes, I believe they did.

DO I CARE?

Yes I do.  With a caveat.  If Knight and Hale had come to me and said "Hey Al, we are going to make a new call and we want to use the shape of your bonkers for it"  I would have been proud as a peacock!  I wouldn't have asked them for ANYTHING.  Just the knowledge that they thought enough of my design - shape - would have been priceless to me.  But hey didn't.  So screw them.

Everything else is just hogwash and of no importance to me.   That the call is blown from the other end, works differently is a howler all that is Bull.  It is the shape of the bonker call that they are trying to capitalize on.  Period.

Ronne, the manager of game calls at Knight and Hale tells me he has never seen one of my bonkers.  Yet we have a K&H pro staffer here?   BradH don't you have some "history" with Yotehunter74?  I think so eh?


If it is wrong to take pride in your work - then I am as wrong as I can be. 

Non call makers talk out their ass when they say "there are only so many ways to turn a peice of wood".  It takes a lot of time effort and materials to come up with a call design only to have some pissant copy it the next day.   If it's so damn easy, then drop a couple hundred on a lathe and get to work and show us what YOU can do.

Finally, believe me, I would have been jumping for joy if Knight and Hale had said they wanted to use the shape of one of my calls for one of theirs.   No amount of money or anything else would have EVER topped that -

If you dont believe me, I can post the letter from the publishing company that wanted to take all the tutorials on my web site and put them in a book.   THe catch was, once the book was published, the tutorials would be their property and would have had to come off my web site.   I said no.  THe tutorials will stay on the site for all call makers -

So, to set the record straight -

I believe Knight and Hale copied the shape of my call.  Then lied to me about doing so.  If it happened to one of you, and you didn't care, you're not the kind of man I want to associate with anyway because you have no pride.

If that makes me a bad person in your eyes - tough.  I don't care.  It's jsut the way it is. 

AL

Edited to add this -

If you can't see that they copied the shape of the bonker, then you are blind as a bat and dont beloing in the woods with a sling shot let alone a rifle.  Get a seeing eye dog because you really need one.  And again, if you disagree - tough.  I dont care.  It is what it is no mather what you want to jabber on and on about. 

[HuntnCarve]

I am not a political person, and do not participate in the debates that occur.  But after seeing this thread, it's a sad thing to say.  But anymore when I log onto a Custom call makers board, the first thing I am doing is looking to see "who copied who?"   We teach our children not to copy others work in school.  And to do their own work.  Copying another was just not tolerated!  You got caught, and you got punished!   Atleast that was how I was brought up, and how my children were raised.  Yet today we turn a "blind eye" towards it? 
The sad fact is that some folks see a design that is selling for someone else, and right away, and with blatant disregard, copy it, and market it as their own?  Could we call it the "Evolution of call making?"  I call it greed.  Plain and simple!  As for the people that do this sort of thing, I have no respect for them.  I personally do not find it flattering to see something you worked hard on copied.  But then again, that is just me. 
It bothered me when I saw Al's call copied here, and once by another.  Chance circumstance?  I just don't buy that.  I am sorry Al, that once again you have become the victim.  The only flattering thing in this whole scenario is that they chose to copy a Premier Call Maker.  I doubt you'll find much solace in that?   But it is true. At this point in time, I personallly will not be supporting KnH products.

[Jimmie in Ky]

I read the write up on th call in question last week in the Predator Xtreme gear guide. First thing I thought was that it did look like Al's bonker. But that is where the similarities end. They have done enough changes to make this design theirs no matter how loud and long anybody yells about it.

None of us go to the trouble of patents or copyrights. This leaves us wide open for these things to happen. You build a better mouse trap without this and someone is going to steal it and market it.

If you believe that ethics mean anything to a large corporation you are in for a large let down. It's not a matter of right and wrong, it's the dollars and cents that matter to them. The company I worked for even tried to steal our pensions when they left North America. An agreement is just another thing to break if they can.

K&H has been trying to get a part of the predator market for a long time and have not gotten thier fair share yet. Of the call companies that have made thier name in other fields of pursuit only Primos has come close to it. Over the years I have seen corporations buy up many callmakers for this and they hybridized and bastardized nearly all of them. Only Burnham bros still stands alone as far as I know.

Take pride in the fact that you all still have your ethics. This is what makes you unique in a world gone nuts. Jimmie

[George Ackley]

Yes I thought you sounded reticules thinking K&H call is like yours AL,,,
do you really believe every one knows your calls  
I been doing this calling thing for 30 some years and I never heard tell of your calls till the last couple years and today I couldn't look at a call and say it was one of yours..

What is it Mr. krusty  was insinuating in his post Al  don't side step it ,, what's he talking about????
I looked at some of your calls and nice they are,  but , are you the first guy to use the shinny brass ring around your call??
Al I truly believe most guy are on your side about this case of so called copycatting because they are your friends

Al
Lets look at it this way ,, all the calls you have sold on line, can you show me a post of someone that was unhappy with the call????? Most likely not, people are just good natured and don't post bad things ..
well its the same with you posting and crying about K&H and getting all the pats on the back your getting,
case of good people saying good things no more no less

Your now saying I dont belong in the woods because I don't agree with you thats funny ,
see the thing is I truly hunt predators,,,, not just talk about it on line...


Internet is a funny funny place  :roflmao:I dont belong in the woods , because i disagree with someone who makes predator calls  :roflmao:,, It would have made more sence comeing from a PREDATOR CALL MAKER if you told me to stay out of  wood shops :roflmao:

[Troy Walter]

I have a good idea why don't we start from this day on when we have something to say that is any way negative that we do it in a private message,that way we don't look like a bunch of little kids.And that way the rest of us who do have respect for other people don't have to see all of this crap all the time.

[Krustyklimber]

Troy,

The problem lies when we don't think we were, or did not intend to be negative.

I made a joke, an honest joke about Al "sniping my idea".

Even if it was ill timed, for Al, I think it's a good one (ironic funny, sarcastic funny, and just plain funny funny).

I tried to be supportive, but I doubt anything I said was received that way.

You can't reason with a kid with his fingers in his ears screaming "LA LA LA LA! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!"

Not even by private message.

Krusty

P.S. Not until I saw this subject come up on another board, and then read this thread, did I ever lay eyes on a "Bonker".

Anybody a NASCAR fan?

Saying these two calls are the same is like saying a Stock car and a showroom Monte Carlo are the same...
Yeah buddy, on the outside they're both Chevrolets, but not under the hood, not the way you use them, and NOT THE WAY THEY SOUND!

[Troy Walter]

Krusty
I don't never get into crap like this it is just not me,I am probably the easy going guy you would ever meet.But you just get tired of seeing this crap all the time.Just like you did with your last post about a little kid,that was a jab and about 95% of the people on this forum just get tired of that crap because it turn into a shit storm and  we have to put up with it.All I am asking is from now on if we feel we have to jab one another or be negitive, do it in a private message.Jim I think you should make this a rule you can call it FnF rule #69
Troy

[Krustyklimber]

Troy,

I didn't think it was a jab, I thought it was a joke. (see the laughing smilie?)

Al flat out refused to read my post, there's no talking to him... I think the way he's behaving is funny, and I don't care if you don't get my sense of humor.

To answer Rodney, and you, "No, we can't, all get along"... so get over it.

Life's just not fair.

Krusty

[Troy Walter]

5 %

[FinsnFur]

rule #69?  You mean rule #2 and I forgot what #1 was.

Don't let Krusty bother ya, he has a history of being abrasive. Whether or not it's intentional... 

[Krustyklimber]

Jim,

Yeah, I'm the bad guy here.

Yer right, I think I been here before.

Krusty

Oh... yippee, a few more posts, and I'll actually BE ABLE TO SEND a private message...

[Troy Walter]

Oh Krusty don't bother me,but that little guy with his hand waving next to his name now that is annoying

[Krustyklimber]

There's somethin' wrong with you if you don't like smilies?

Krusty (psst, hey Rico S'wavie, the man says he don't like you.)