I have no intentions of letting up on the coyote population, here in Ohio, as I hunt them all year long. I don't believe it's possible to put a "dent" in the population by hunting them 365 days of the year.
However, some folks have a "conviction" about hunting coyotes with pups. What's your thoughts?
Good hunting, Bowhunter57
Your right...could be a heated discussion.
Personally....I agree...I dont think everyone combined could put a dent in the population. They over come and adapt to the point of breeding mutiny.
"However, some folks have a "conviction" about hunting coyotes with pups. What's your thoughts?"
---------------------------------------------------------------
I understand the feelings of those folks, and I respect their their feelings on the subject. I personally make my own decision as to when I pull the trigger on a coyote. Calling coyotes is a passion for me. I go out and fulfill my passion as often as I can. Old farts like me can do that. :wink:
Coyotes are targets of opporitunity around here. I don't call year around because of the heat, bugs, and snakes in the summer but, I'll take a coyote out when ever possible. :shrug:
The Rock ,
Surely you don't allow a few little things like heat, venomous snakes and bugs keep you from calling coyotes do ya? :eyebrownod:
I feel you should hunt them when ever you like as long as it's legal.
This is one of the things I love about this board. I find most men here respect the right of a man to make his own decisions when to hunt.
Glad to see that most of you guys Hunt them when you want to, Myself I only go when I'm by myself or with someone or when its Daylight or Dark, all other times just sitting around thinking about going. cc
Carl :roflmao:
If I am trying to deplete the amount of coyotes in a given are (Say around a ranch, farm, etc.) I will hunt at every opportunity. I don't worry about if the pups are there or not. In that situation I am doing it as a favor to the rancher or farmer. I don't really care to hunt the coyotes between may and sept. in the other areas I hunt. Those areas are far away from any ranches and the coyotes are killed for fun and fur. The fur is no good in the hot months and if there are no pups that survive, the hunting sucks down the road. I also hate having to let the occasional bobcat or fox go if the season is closed (I got really pissed last spring and had to pass on a HUGE tom bobcat because season was closed). In a nut shell, what I am saying is depends on the situation and/or reason for hunting the coyotes.
I dont hunt during denning season, except for a few ADC calls I get from the state. I spend my springs and summer getting ready for fall. If I do hunt in the denning season, I make damn sure I dont leave no pups in the den. I find them no matter what it takes and take them out as well.
But I do respect those who hunt in the summer. I have no problems with that at all.
Brent
You wouldn't have time to if you HAD to :iroll:
:roflmao:
WOW
On another board people would have been crucified,,thats what 2 of my biggest arguments was over on the shit board
and MY fights over there were not over to hunt or not to hunt coyotes in the summer,,my fights were over lettin the guy with the hunting license make HIS/HER OWN CHOICE!!! :doh2: ,,the last straw over at the OUJI (PM) Board (because all the "PRO'S" over there know everything even the future) was when a guy from Texas said he was going to the ranch down the road to hunt and 3 well known ASSHOLES over there jumped him HARD and told him to make sure he brings back pics of the starving,suffering pups and called the guy every name in the book,,THE Gentleman even told them it was because the rancher had late calves and the rancher DEMANDED IT!!!and they still rode his ass about it!
then i said he who pulls the trigger should make the choice,,,,well you people KNOW how fast they turn on people over there,,,i DIDNT want to hunt coyotes after February,,the FIRST coyote i ever seen was last year while groundhog hunting and me and the 2 boys would not shoot the coyote we seen(OUR CHOICE)
But after the bullshit over there i told bnccont that i was coming down on April 28th to hunt coyotes,,i wanted 1 just so i could go back to the "other" place and post 300 pics and tell them i tried to get pics of the pups BUT i drove my truck over them 1000 times just to hear them scream,,and the reason i would have posted that was to get into it again with the "PROS",, BUT after my MISS on the DARK COYOTE i will hunt them when i can,,to hell with them over there
I LOVE THIS BOARD because it is FREEDOM OF CHOICE OVER HERE,,i laugh like hell when i hear the long bow shooters fight with the crossbow shooters in this state,,I SHOOT recurves with cedar arrows,,AND I DONT CARE WHAT THE OTHER GUY SHOOTS,,i had a buddy that was anti anything except traditional archery,,,12 years ago he bought his Dad a Crossbow,,i was in his ass,,the excuse was that his dad would shoot them with a 22 so he may as well keep him legal! :shck:
I LOVE this board because not ONCE in this thread did someone call someone else a DUMBASS for making his OWN choice and hunting coyotes as long as they are legal,,hell over at the "shit" site there would have been 10 people banned and the thread locked by now :argh: of course we dont have an OCEAN TOAD over here grooming his CULT FOLLOWERS in GESTAPO LIKE TACTICS :doh2: uh,,uh,,no one here speaks French do they? :whew:
I feel better now
I wanna start by saying if it's legal, go for it. I don't go outa my way too much this time of year to hunt em. If one came into my decoy while turkey huntin, it's probably gonna get an arrow flung at it. I think everybody has a standard or a "line" that they don't wanna cross. Most I think are kinda down the middle, some may go a little extreme (in my opinion) one way, kill anything, any way, for "fun", and some a little extreme the other way (again my opinion) won't step on a bug, kill a spider etc. I found a bigger garter snake by our little koi pond when our fish were perty little. I grabbed him by the tail and bashed it's head against a rock. Did it have babies? :shrug: Does that make me a bad person? :shrug: Maybe to some, they're entitled to there opinion. Or, for arguemants sake, it's only a rabbit and he was getting into my garden so I put a bullet in his head, did it have babies? :shrug: What about pig huntin and shoot a sow, did it have babies? :shrug: Or bear huntin in Canada, and a big sow comes in with cubs? :shrug: It's not illegal to take that sow. When I go to Texas next week, if I get the chance at a bobcat, do I take it? It might have babies. I'd be willin to bet there might be a few people that would say, it's a coyote and I'm gonna hunt them year round, but - hey that's a bobcat and I wouldn't shoot them this time of year. Who's right, and who's wrong. Just because somebody has a different "line" then yours, does not make one right and one wrong, just different opinions. Again I say if it's legal, have at it. Opinions are fine, but I don't like to see it getting so heated and to the point of division, we sure don't need any more of that with the laws and anti's as strong as they are................Just my opinion :biggrin: :biggrin:
+1 to what CCP said. :yoyo:
Nelson
:wo: So far it doesn't really matter when I 'hunt' them....... :puke:
First off let me say, I have no problem with anyone killing coyotes year round.
But for myself, I hunt coyotes for sport, cause they are the ultimate challenge. I don't hunt during the denning season, simpily because if I kill the parents of a litter of coyotes, then there is a good chance that the pups are going to die a slow death. I don't want to see anything die like that, even an ole coyote. Besides these are my targets for the fall and winter. Every one that starves to death is one I can't call up and shoot.
Many thanks to everyone that has replied to this topic! :bowingsmilie: As a new member on this forum and having been a member on several other forums, I really appreciate everyone's professionalism and respect of others opinions as to their method(s) of hunting.
I'll be hangin' around here for a while. :biggrin:
Good hunting, Bowhunter57
Quote from: Rich on May 19, 2007, 01:48:18 PM
The Rock ,
Surely you don't allow a few little things like heat, venomous snakes and bugs keep you from calling coyotes do ya? :eyebrownod:
Don't call me Shirley! :biggrin:
Yep, I do let those few things stop the calling Rich. Just isn't fun out here in those conditions. Coyotes can be shot year around here though. No season on coyote and jack rabbit so they get hit as target practice. I do sell a little fur Jan - March too so They get hit harder in those months also. Sept - Dec the
young and dumb ones get shot up pretty regular by all the coyote experts :innocentwhistle:. If you don't go out for them the next guy will get them anyway :shrug:
The Rock ,
You sound like a heck of a good man. Where ya from? :wink:
Hey Bowhunter57, I answered this question over at ohio sportsman. (razor) over there.
Welcome to Fins and fur :yoyo:
JD
I'm pretty new to FnF also Bowhunter. I agree that the forum has a great crew of good folks.
Quote from: Rich on May 20, 2007, 01:55:25 PM
The Rock ,
You sound like a heck of a good man. Where ya from? :wink:
I may not be all that good Rich, but I try to be and try to help out when I can. I happen to to located in C-Bad NewMexico where there aren't any coyotes. There is no need for any body to come down here and waste your time calling. :innocentwhistle:
The Rock ,
According to my friend Danny Badasstenee, your part of New Mexico is a predator caller's paradise. Dany wouldn't lie about something like that now would he? :wink:
:roflmao: @ Badasstenee
I've gone over and meet Danny about a year or so ago. Dusty Wood was there when I went. I didn't get to much in with those two talking. Couple of good guys with plenty under their belt on predator hunting.
Oh, He might have miss judged the area a little on the #'s. :wink:
Rocky
Danny???? Misjudged numbers?????
:nono: :roflmao: :nono:
Season is open here year round. But me and Lil-man don't hunt them now as we are limited on places to hunt.
But....If given the chance, Cam will sling lead as he is wanting a coyote real bad :yoyo: And if you think those guys over there get hot on the subject, Tell Cameron he can't kill one now and see what your told :eyebrow: :readthis: :biggrin:
I only ask "is it legal?" If yes, I'll hunt it. If no, I won't. There was a time in my distant past when I didn't think that way. The only question I asked then was "can I eat it?"
Semp
Quote from: Semp on May 21, 2007, 06:04:46 PM
I only ask "is it legal?" If yes, I'll hunt it. If no, I won't. There was a time in my distant past when I didn't think that way. The only question I asked then was "can I eat it?"
Semp
lmao !! :roflmao: :roflmao: :eyebrownod:
I'm going to two places this week where I have two seperate calls about nuisance coyotes. One is eating chickens and one is eating cats..........sure hope I don't get the one eating cats. :eyebrownod: At least not until all the cats are eaten.
I'll post pics if I nail one. :wink:
Bop
Good deal on letting the cat killer go until ALL the cats are gone,,hell if you can,live trap it and ship it up here,or I will come down and get it,,we have a cat problem in my area,and 1 of them is the wife's,,she made me PROMISE i wouldn't shoot it
BUT she didn't say i COULDNT ship it to Tennessee for bait :wo:
Bob
Hey Bob, Saw your post over at PM. Give 'em hell. Bunch of self proclaimed experts with inflated egos. I've got one of their stickers on the back window of my P/U. I'm about ready to scrape it off. Need to get one for FnF. I hunt all year and I can't wait to post some pictures over "there". Maybe even tell them a story about taking out the wet bitch 1st with my .243 and then finishing off the pups with my .17 HMR. :laf: :laf: :laf:
:holdon:...He likes food.....speaks his mind......and hates cats..... :highclap:. You da man Bop.
Bob, just one thing....car accident :readthis: :eyebrow: Then say...Sorry hunny, I didn't see it :innocentwhistle:
Iowa is open season year around. But you won't see them once the crops/ grasses get tall. I did give one a little 'ambush makover' last Sunday mornin'. We were crossing a ridgetop hayfield toward a roost tree and here comes this coyote out the woods. Seems he had the same idea that mornin'. It was hot on a trail and didn't see us. A couple rabbit screams got its attention and it turned to circle downwind. At about thirty yds. I gave it a load of birdshot right in the nose. It ran off but I definately ruined its breakfast plans! :laf:
QuoteHey Bob, Saw your post over at PM. Give 'em hell. Bunch of self proclaimed experts with inflated egos. I've got one of their stickers on the back window of my P/U. I'm about ready to scrape it off. Need to get one for FnF. I hunt all year and I can't wait to post some pictures over "there". Maybe even tell them a story about taking out the wet bitch 1st with my .243 and then finishing off the pups with my .17 HMR.
I'm not sure I understand this. The guys you are referring to do not call PM their home forum. Nor are they connected with PM Admin. For the most part I think these guys hang out over on HM. They do wander and post on a few different forums, however, if I needed to contact them as quickly as possible I would go directly to HM as that seems to be where they hang their hat. In fact, as a crew collectively, this same few guys seem to be routinely in trouble at PM. I think they got suspended about the same time as the BIG trouble between Jim and PM erupted back in the day. Many thought the two events were connected. I don't know enough about all that to comment, and don't need/want to know, not my business. I have defended them several times on PM about other issues. That didn't make me popular with many people. These guys know coyotes and are absolutely passionate about their hunting. Sometimes emotions get out of hand and maybe they aren't as delicate in transfering their feelings to the typed word as they could be. Looks bad on them, they could be more tolerant, no doubt. Or, just ignore and move on. At any rate, another poster who is just as outspoken about that issue recently began posting here and was welcomed with open arms. :confused:
To the point concerning the quote, from what I'm reading over there PM Admin is agreeing with the "hunt if, and when you want, as long as it is legal" stance. Isn't that the same train of thought as you? It seems to me that PM Admin is actually restraining the sharp comments from these guys and moderating it to attempt to keep the discussion civil. If so, why the animosity toward PM? Am I misunderstanding the situation? I'm confused I guess... :shrug:
There's a "better than us" group over there that think their narrow minded way is the only way. If I kill a coyote in Ky, what the hell does it have to do with anybody 1500-2000 miles away from me? My post above was kind of a heated moment from over "there". I don't shoot little pups. But I do hunt some during the year on cooler days. If they don't like it, tough. Get over it, or join the anti-hunters to work against hunting from Jan-Oct. They are more aligned with them than the hunters here.
ALL HAIL THE AMBER AMPHIBIAN!!! :roflmao: :roflmao: :yahoo: :yahoo: :laugh2: :laugh2:
The only thing I got against PM is their gestapo tactics to suppress free speech ie: deleting or editing posts, their holier than thou attitude towards many, the way the dudes in charge actually became in charge, how some of the mods actually begged their butts off to become mods, they've bastardized a sport I love for damn money.........outside of that. I LOVE 'EM.
I've been on that board longer than most the mods, so yes, I have seen the changes and they all suck. I wish Will Craig could return from the dead, he'd fire most those limp noodles.
Quote from: Bopeye on May 23, 2007, 04:35:00 PM
ALL HAIL THE AMBER AMPHIBIAN!!! :roflmao: :roflmao: :yahoo: :yahoo: :laugh2: :laugh2:
The only thing I got against PM is their gestapo tactics to suppress free speech ie: deleting or editing posts, their holier than thou attitude towards many, the way the dudes in charge actually became in charge, how some of the mods actually begged their butts off to become mods, they've bastardized a sport I love for damn money.........outside of that. I LOVE 'EM.
I've been on that board longer than most the mods, so yes, I have seen the changes and they all suck. I wish Will Craig could return from the dead, he'd fire most those limp noodles.
Does this mean ya don't want to take long warm showers with 'em? :biggrin:
ok Bop, guess we know where you stand! And I'll agree on most points. Maybe all. But I think what GC is saying is you can't turn everything against PM when it's just a few that disdain offseason shooting. There is still a lot of good people that frequent PM, you included.( Even if it is only to raise a little hell!) Let's not lump everyone into the same bunch.
I think nailbender got the gist of my meaning. The rest of the stuff, I guess I'm just ignorant about most of it.
Quote from: nailbender on May 23, 2007, 06:25:21 PM
There is still a lot of good people that frequent PM, you included.( Even if it is only to raise a little hell!) Let's not lump everyone into the same bunch.
Point taken ~bender :wink:
But I little uncomfortable with the statement I quoted up there :confused:
Bopeye has a good side?? :laf: :wink:
:laf: Yep , even ol' Bop has a few endearing qualities! :roflmao:
Quote from: Bopeye on May 23, 2007, 04:35:00 PM
ALL HAIL THE AMBER AMPHIBIAN!!! :roflmao: :roflmao: :yahoo: :yahoo: :laugh2: :laugh2:
The only thing I got against PM is their gestapo tactics to suppress free speech ie: deleting or editing posts, their holier than thou attitude towards many, the way the dudes in charge actually became in charge, how some of the mods actually begged their butts off to become mods, they've bastardized a sport I love for damn money.........outside of that. I LOVE 'EM.
I've been on that board longer than most the mods, so yes, I have seen the changes and they all suck. I wish Will Craig could return from the dead, he'd fire most those limp noodles.
Bopeye
You must have read my mind ,,,edit,delete,,edit,delete SSDD
Bob
Quote from: nailbender on May 23, 2007, 08:17:32 PM
:laf: Yep , even ol' Bop has a few endearing qualities! :roflmao:
Not many...........I have friends on PM, it's just the way the dang board has changed. :iroll:
Guess I'll just stay here most of the time. :eyebrownod:
I don't hunt them much in hot weather just because it is not enjoyable to me. If I do go, I keep in mind that the main reason I am allowed to hunt on so many farms is that those farmers are having trouble with calf depredation. If they found out I was protecting coyotes, I wouldn't be allowed to hunt there anymore. Being humane to an animal that is not humane in his approach to hunting is a wasted emotion as far as I am concerned. You can't kill them out anyway by hunting. I do hunt a good deal on deer hunting lease properties at the request of the lease holders. If you call them in using fawn distress calls, it is a win-win situation. If you kill him, he won't bother any more fawns. If you shoot and miss or just crease him, he may think twice about hunting fawns again.
IMHO, as long as a person is complying with their own respective states hunting laws concerning coyote hunting, what gives anyone the right to condemn or belittle them? Every law abiding hunter has their own equipment, techniques and ethics and hunts according to what they feel is correct for them. They do not have to answer to anyone but themselves.
Expressing a view on a subject is one thing, trying to force their views on someone else is just plain wrong. MI VHNTR
Well, here's a thread that sounds familiar. :nono: No need for me to post my opinion, most of you already know what it is. Just as most of you already know the reasons for that opinion. But just in case 1 or 2 of you may have misinterpreted my opinion, I'll stick around to help you with any clarification issues, if needed. :wink:
Well ? Lets have it! After all its just your opinion! :biggrin:
I got to go to work will be on the road the next 5 hours. :sad: When I get to the motel I bet I check this thread first thing. :biggrin:
Quote from: Mallardsr on May 28, 2007, 02:40:07 PM
Well ? Lets have it!
Was there a "particular" point you had in mind :confused: or are you just chummin'? :laf:
I found your position presumptuous on the inflated popularity of your opinion. Just encouraging the fulfillment of your position. :biggrin:
Mallard, I like you already! :laf: You're right, though. I was assuming most everyone here had followed the thread of similar content over at PM. So I will again assume that you are not a regular visitor to the realm of the grenouille rouge?
So sorry to have misled you. I often visit Red Frogs domain and have done so since 2002. I was responding on the behalf of the many new members we have here at FNF that were not able to do so for various reasons. Once again just encouraging your participation here at FNF. :biggrin:
Although I live in a state that has no closed season on coyotes, I don't hunt them during their denning season. I believe that springtime hunting should be reserved for dealing with problem coyotes only.
I do not agree that every coyote is a "problem". People that do usually have very little understanding of coyote biology. I do not hate coyotes, nor do I champion their extermination from the planet.
I do believe that just because it's "legal" does not mean it's "right" or even "necessary" to do something. Take flag burning, for example. You have a "legal" right to do it. Does that mean you have to do it? Does it mean it's even the right thing to do? Is it even something to take pride in? In my eyes, "legal" is not the only justification to take into consideration for one's actions.
Now, there is an opinion. Does anyone feel "threatened" or "intimidated"? Does anyone feel anything "being shoved down their throats"? Does anyone feel they are "being told what to do"? I sure hope not because then this is all a dream and I'm still at PM. :madd:
I personally dont feel right hunting animals during the denning seasons. I do belive in the conservation of our wildlife no matter what that wildlife may be. If ya go out and shoot a yote that has pups then those pups will most likely not make it. Thus you have in effect killed not one but several yotes. I like hunting and the outdoors and fell that if ya harvest too many you take away from future enjoyment.
Look at the passenger pigion the common thought was that there are so many of them that you could not possibaly hurt the population. Now the passenger pigeon is a thing of the past.
And just look out on our plains and you'll find the next passenger pigeon ......... the prairie dog. I really would hate to see them disappear too. They are just too much fun to shoot to have them just vanish. Nationwide, coyotes are nowhere in that level of decline. But I know of areas where the combination of mange, parvo, ADC A/C, and recreational shooting have driven the numbers of coyotes so low that it isn't even worth the cost of gas to drive there and try to call anymore. This is on public land, too. I'd like some of those Texans to send us a few hundred head of their surplus coyotes so's we can re-stock those barren hills. :laf:
I totally agree with you on the prarie dog issue. I would love to try my hand at a prarie dog shoot but with the number of people that are shooting prarie dogs I just cant bring my self to sit out and see how many I can shoot in a day. That kind of thinking can and will push the PD to extention.
Coyotes arnt on the decline by any means in the grand scheme of things but part of being a hunter is CONSERVATION. Shooting somthing just to be killing something is in my opinion immoral and wrong. Shooting something to help control population or damage from there burrowing or orther forms of there normal day to day actaivity is another matter all together.
I think there's a plenty of members here NASA that all in all dont know you from Adam. I'm not saying all of them, I just mean there are plenty that dont.
I think you could benefit greatly in making your point by exposing some of your passion. Tell the boys about your years actually raising coyotes and studying them.
Thanks a lot Jimbo...........been listening to Nasa on this subject for years. Okay, I'll listen again.............just give me a minute to get ready..........................hold on...........okay............go........... :sleep: :sleep:
:roflmao: :roflmao:
Just razzing ya Nasa. Although I can see your side of it and do agree with your point that I don't want coyotes exterminated........I love to hunt 'em too much for that. I'll still hunt whenever it's legal, if I choose too.
For what it's worth though, I don't hunt coyotes too much in the summer.........I guess "seldom" would be the word I'm looking for, but it's not for the reasons you gave.
I simply don't like setting in the heat, sweating my fat butt off, getting covered in skeeters, dog pecker gnats and ticks, just to shoot a coyote. I'd rather hunt when it's cooler. Having said that, it also means that I'm not hunting the little dumb, young coyotes that some are hunting in September either. The dumb ones are usually dead as a hammer by the time my fat butt get's out. Two sides to every coin. :wink:
That is one giant leap you took there NASA. It'd take an awful lot of VERY succesful predator hunters hitting one VERY unique area to knock numbers down in that manor. Just because an area isn't suitable for calling doesn't mean it's remotely close to barren of all coyotes.
It's okay to feel sorry for the cute puppies- but population eradication is one giant leap.
I simply don't like setting in the heat, sweating my fat butt off, getting covered in skeeters, dog pecker gnats and ticks, just to shoot a coyote.
well there is that to Bopeye
Skeeters, dogpecker gnats & ticks. If that don't take the urge out of ya, nothin will. You make it sound so enjoyable.
Everybody has a opinion about when to hunt coyotes whether they are right or wrong its their opinion and most everyone has his reason for that opinion, the wildlife department in my State put a camera on a coyote den during the Fawning season last year and during a 30 day period the female coyote killed 15 fawns during that period to feed her pups, now I am a Deer hunter and love Venison, I don't hate coyotes because I love to hunt them, but I don't eat them, I don't know most of the guys that post on this site but I know a few and there is some Damn good coyote hunters here but I have not met one yet that I think has the ability to eradicate coyotes or even wants to. All this BS about right or wrong is just that BS. cc
Geez Carl...having a bad day buddy? :wink:
No one is saying it's right or wrong, not that I could find anyway. Their just stating why they do or dont. It's all good. :yoyo:
Hey I dont cause that is my choice. Now some of the areas I hunt ahave had there quail and rabbit populations wiped out by yotes, foxes and feral cats. I will hunt yotes in these areas IF the land owner wants me to. Got to do something to help the other things I like to hunt
Yeah but you dont count Slag...your harvester of fuzzy things. :biggrin:
Jim, How about a poll to see what the majority thinks? Not to say anyone is right or wrong here, just for fun.
I would do it, but my computer skills are way behind yours ol great one... :laugh2: (Yeap, I couldn't figure it out? :confused:)
Poll is pined at the top for you all to vote on!
Brent
Quote from: FinsnFur on May 29, 2007, 06:14:09 PM
Gee Carl...having a bad day buddy? :wink:
No one is saying it's right or wrong, not that I could find anyway. Their just stating why they do or dint. It's all good. :yo yo:
Not really having a bad day, and I didn't mean to sound offensive, just voicing my opinion,a lot of the States have no Hunting season on coyotes and the wildlife departments are encouraging the hunters to kill coyotes because of the affect they are having on other wildlife. The coyotes have moved into so many suburban areas and killing peoples pets and livestock and it presents a lot of opportunity's to hunt them year round and as some of the other members have stated that some of the areas they hunt the people that own the land expect results and if they don't come in when they are having a problem they may lose their hunting rights. I can agree that every coyote is not a problem but given the right opportunity he will be a problem. I just think that hunting them year round is not going to put them on the endangered species list. From what I have seen so far most people hunt when they want to as long as its legal and that's the way I feel. I personally am a very ethical hunter and want to keep it that way and I may get a little defensive if someone starts suggesting that you should only hunt coyotes at a certain time of the year because those times of the year I may be hunting something else. Like I said everyone has a opinion.cc
Just exactly what is a problem coyote? I have lived on a farm my entire life and other than the time coyotes put us out of the sheep business over 40 years ago, I have not encountered a problem coyote. I live in cattle country and I know most of the farmers who raise cattle around here. Most of them are honest men and will say that they have not lost one calf due to a coyote. Now a few calves have been stomped to death when the mama gets nervous when a couple of coyotes are waiting to eat some after birth or the first poop out of the calf, but other than that, nothing. As far as I am concerned, the number of fawns eaten by coyotes is not enough anyways.
Randy
My brother's father-in-law is losing chickens like crazy. He shined the night before last and saw a coyote getting one. I guess he could be classified as a problem. :wink:
We raised chickens for the meat and eggs. If you did not put them in the chicken house every night, you were asking for a problem.
Randy
If you put these chickens in the chicken house together........they will all be dead. Fighting chickens kinda do that...... :wink:
Bop,
I don't know if this will help or not but I'm doing some work for a guy now on some roosters. Its coons killing all his roosters. There are coyote tracks in there as well but it looks like there just there to clean up the craps. A couple coons have taken 16 roosters as of today there. Now it time to go to war! Traps are out, so we will know for sure in the morning!
Mink and coons are very hard on roosters. A good 35 or 55 gal drum helps some and enough of a lead for them to be able to move a bit helps as well. This guy had these roosters tied on a very short leash and half a barrel! :rolleye:
Brent
I don't know nothing about fighting chickens, but like Brent said sometimes a coyote gets the blame when he is not the culprit. Some perceive a coyote just standing on their land as a problem. The next time someone calls and asks you to remove a spring or summer time problem coyote, say you will be right out in the morning. Also, tell them it will cost 100 dollars for each problem coyote you remove. I bet you will see real quick just how big a problem they got.
Randy
I think a lot of the problem is geographical in debates or post like these.
Example when I lived in North FL. I had plenty of places to hunt coyotes and could not get to them all. I usually only hunted these places in the winter.
In the summer I got $50 bucks ahead for coyotes and coyote pups. Watermelon farmers were my main customers. You would be amazed at how many watermelons a few coyotes can bust open in a night. Yes they can bust a ripe not rotten watermelon open with ease and only eats a few bites and goes to the next. I also had a lot of beef cattle places call me. The coyotes were not directly killing the cows. they would hang around the feed lots for the rats. Problem was they would cause the cows to bunch up and stress out. Same as if a dog was around.
I witnessed with my father on our own farm from a distance a group of cows in the feed lot bunching up and running around in circles. Dad told me to go see what was going on. When I got there the cow where bunched up to the fence and it starting giving way and some went over. Then I noticed a coyote not chasing them but there causing the commotion. Took the rest of the day to get cows and fix fences.
Most cattle farmers look at coyotes the same as stray dogs in a lot of cases.
"My brother's father-in-law is losing chickens like crazy. He shined the night before last and saw a coyote getting one. I guess he could be classified as a problem. "
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Bopeye,
Which one is the problem. Coyote or Father in Law? :)
Quote from: Rich on May 30, 2007, 08:48:09 PM
"My brother's father-in-law is losing chickens like crazy. He shined the night before last and saw a coyote getting one. I guess he could be classified as a problem. "
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Bopeye,
Which one is the problem. Coyote or Father in Law? :)
Good question Rich....... :eyebrownod:
I do know this much about him though. When he shines a spotlight on a critter that is carrying one of his chickens off, he can tell the difference.
A coon has a mask and a ringtail, whereas a coyote doesn't.
There are some other features that are easy to identify the differences, even in the dark with a spotlight shining on it. :wink:
Thus far, my experience is that exculsion strategies are the best and most affordable approach for poultry over the long term. Black buzzards are a bigger problem than yotes when it comes to cattle. Goat problems usually require removing the yotes in that territory. Good business and farmer relations require action when called. Results/customer satisfaction is a function of livestock lost and not critters removed. Urban yotes seem to be the biggest issue to deal with during the denning season. I have not encountered any yotes yet that have designed their denning territory around livestock as the food source.....yet.
Quote from: RShaw on May 30, 2007, 04:49:34 PM
Just exactly what is a problem coyote? I have lived on a farm my entire life and other than the time coyotes put us out of the sheep business over 40 years ago, I have not encountered a problem coyote. I live in cattle country and I know most of the farmers who raise cattle around here. Most of them are honest men and will say that they have not lost one calf due to a coyote. Now a few calves have been stomped to death when the mama gets nervous when a couple of coyotes are waiting to eat some after birth or the first poop out of the calf, but other than that, nothing. As far as I am concerned, the number of fawns eaten by coyotes is not enough anyways.
Randy
A problem Coyote could be in the eyes of the beholder, The problem I see with Coyotes and Bobcats killing Fawns is they make no distinction whether its a buck or doe, we prefer to let the fawns mature and harvest Does to maintain a proper balance of Buck- Doe ratio on our Hunt Club. Some of the farms I hunt have lost calves and the cow giving birth to the calf to coyotes , The farmers on these farms consider these coyotes to be a problem .
We put a lot of effort on our Hunt Club to maintain a good wildlife habitat. Some of that effort is predator control. I can agree with Randy that not enough Does ( not Fawns ) are being killed as we still have to harvest quite a few does each year. I have not seen to many bucks on any property that I have ever hunted. I am an avid hunter and the Coyote hunting open a new avenue to have something to hunt year round, not to offend anyone by any means, I respect everyone's opinion and hope that they can respect mine. cc
Would these coyotes be considered problem coyotes or not? ----------> http://americanbeagler.huntingboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=29853&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 (http://americanbeagler.huntingboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=29853&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)
If it was my dog they attacked, they would be a problem.
You know as well as I do, that every time you drop the tailgate, there is a chance that dog might not return. I've lost more hounds to cars than all other "problems" combined. But I don't go around running every car I see off the road just because a car was responsible for killing one of my hounds. And if a coyote did kill one, how could I be for certain I killed the one that did the deed?
I guess with that attitude, I could say deer are a problem. I hit the stupid things with my truck causing damage, loss of a vehcile, and an increase in my insurance. Sometimes as I approach a stand, I will jump one or some and they run snorting right through the area I wanted to call. May or may not hurt, but it sure lowers my confidence in that stand.In my opinion deer are just a nuisance, but I don't go around shooting every deer I see and declaring them a problem. Heck, I ain't shot one in over 40 years and I don't intend to start now. Problem or not.
Randy
Whatever that meant............. :confused:
The question is: Are the coyotes that attacked those dogs a problem? Basically that's a yes or no question, but feel from to give another two paragraph diatribe if you wish. :innocentwhistle:
I hunt 'em all year. On some boards it's not PC to do that unless they are "problem" coyotes. So any excuse that will constitute a problem is good enough for me. That's my attitude and I'm stickin' too it ! :yoyo:
I've also nailed a few deer with my vehicals, but so far NONE have attacked my dog. :doh2:
Had to get out the dictionary for a definition of diatribe.
Earlier I asked the question what is a problem coyote. After reading the replies, the answer to your question would be yes.
Three paragraphs restiricted to four sentences.
Randy
Quote from: Bopeye on June 03, 2007, 02:41:10 PM
Whatever that meant............. :confused:
The question is: Are the coyotes that attacked those dogs a problem? Basically that's a yes or no question, but feel from to give another two paragraph diatribe if you wish. :innocentwhistle:
My answer would be yes, until I got one of them in my crosshairs. Then I'd be like old Weedwalker and remove the problem.
I guess I kinda came across as a smart alec there Randy, which I really wasn't intending to do. I guess I'm just a natural.. :doh2:
I'm just trying to see both sides of the coin.
Been trying to do that for years now and have heard a lot of personal convictions, but nothing really that persuades me from my own beliefs as of yet.
When I ran beagles, I know I had buddies lose dogs to them and talk about some guys taking it personal. I had to talk one moron out of putting tainted meat out to kill all the coyotes within 10 square miles. He finally realized that his dogs might just eat the stuff.........he finally changed his mind from it.
:rolleye:
Even if we just go after "problem" coyotes, that is still something that is based on perception. Our perception is our reality.
Some folks would blame the coyote for global warming if they could, while others could catch a coyote with a rabbit in it's mouth and blame it on the rabbit.
Just some thoughts.
I don't see these as 'problem' coyotes, if the definition of 'problem' is behaving outside their std behavior.... that said, what difference does it really make? If it's legal to hunt coyotes, it's legal to hunt coyotes. What need is a rationalization of 'problem'? Not trying to be a smart ass, just don't think you need to consider anything beyond a) the regulations and b) your personal view of what you are comfortable doing. We each define our own personal limits within the regs and coyotes are coyotes. End of story.
Amen :biggrin:
Well said Stu!
Here if I get a call for a predator problem. Most of the time it is coons. Every once in awhile it will be a mink or weasel killing chickens but most of the calls are on coons that are killing chickens. Or they take up residence in a garage or eve of a house.
Most of the live stock calls on coyotes after they are checked out end up being a dog doing the killing not coyotes. Most of the live stock calls that are coyotes are goat or sheep farms. Very few cattle calls every work out to be coyotes. Allot of the time not all the time.
I get several calls a year of coyotes killing pets. Most of the time small dogs or cats. Urban coyotes are good for this. They set up shop right out side a sub division and start running down the streets in town. This stirs the neighborhood faster than anything.
Coyotes don't know the difference between a pet dog or cat and a rabbit. its all food to them or its related to a Territorial issue. All they know is this area they are in has allot of food and easy pickings. These coyotes get bold as well and almost use to people.
Killing other dogs and cats are natural to coyotes. Its there instinct. The more the coyote population grows here in the east the more of these type of things will happen. People here in the east just are not use to the coyotes and soon as they see one they tend to blame the coyotes for everything that happens.
Brent
We already know that not all coyotes kill calves, but when they get started doing it, it is bad news for the farmers. I am convinced that is why they have evolved and are bigger than when I started hunting them 14 years ago. Some of these big rascals, especially when packed up, can take a big calf down no problem. It is a simple matter of supply and demand. They have to eat and they would starve to death if they relied on rabbits, mice, and groundhogs. Brent is dead on right about the coyotes that live around subdivisions. They will come into someone's back yard and eat their pet's food, and eat the pet if he messes with them. Several years ago, they had a problem around Rabbit Run subdivision in Lexington with pets getting killed. Some mental geniuses on the neighborhood association hired some trappers to catch them in live traps and then take them to the country and turn them loose. They were getting paid $100.00 a head for their services. I wrote a letter to the editor telling them it wouldn't work, as the coyotes would navigate right back in short order. Hard telling how many times they paid $100.00 to have the same coyote trapped and removed before they figured out I was telling them the straight of it. A lot of farmers believe that the coyotes do them no harm. Let them wait a while and they will eventually change their mind about that when the food supply dwindles but the coyote numbers increase.
Some mental geniuses on the neighborhood association hired some trappers to catch them in live traps and then take them to the country and turn them loose.
Are you sure they released them? That's probably what I would have told the homeowners. :wink:
Quote from: studabaka on June 03, 2007, 09:17:22 PM
just don't think you need to consider anything beyond a) the regulations and b) your personal view of what you are comfortable doing. We each define our own personal limits within the regs and coyotes are coyotes. End of story.
Well for crying out loud Stu........just what the heck is wrong with you? :pout: Here we have been hashing and re-hashing this for years and you come on here and somehow find the right words to get us to agree? :shck:
Now what are we going to have a meaningful debate about? Thanks a lot PAL!!! :noway:
That's it boys.........Stu has solved the problem........ :laf: :roflmao:
I guess it's back to .17 HMR's boys.......Stu solved this one........let's go start that up.....maybe he can solve it too...... :highclap: :biggrin:
Quote from: Greenside on June 04, 2007, 01:31:30 PM
Some mental geniuses on the neighborhood association hired some trappers to catch them in live traps and then take them to the country and turn them loose.
Are you sure they released them? That's probably what I would have told the homeowners. :wink:
I didn't folllow the trappers to the country to check them out, but I know they paid for more trapped coyotes than they could possibly have had in that small area. If you talk to some old hound men who have sold dogs to guys who lived as far as 20 to 25 miles away, and the new owner had them get out of the pen, they show back up at the original owner's house. They must have a compass up their rear end.
My point to the homeowner's association was "How did they think the coyotes got there to begin with?" Taking them 10 to 20 miles out in the country is no guarantee they won't work their way back to where they were raised or where they had settled in. There were some bunny huggers in that association, but they eventually had to give on that point, and the trappers were instructed to dispose of them in some other way. I feel reasonably sure they ended up on their fur stretchers. The problem didn't reoccur, so that is my conclusion.
I thought coyotes had a normal range of 10 to 20 miles? Am I wrong here? Is their range smaller? Seems like taking them out 10 or 20 miles wouldn't accomplish much. Sorta like taking them from their front yard and putting them in their back yard. :wo:
Hey Semp: A coyote's range for his hunting territory is a lot different from how far he may travel to establish a territory, or to return to somewhere he has been removed from. I am reasonably sure that their hunting range around this part of the country is smaller than in the big, open western states. All the biologists I have talked to in this area feel that they have a hunting range of about 5 sq. miles, which is not far for a coyote to travel, but it is big enough to give them variety in where they hunt, different types of terrain and cover. It is hard telling how far they travel when dispersed in the fall and out looking to establish a mate and a terrirory of their own.
5 miles is a lot smaller than what I was thinking and puts a different perspective on things. Thanks, that's interesting.
Semp
There home territory depends on the coyote populations in they area your in. It can be 5 - 20 miles. It also depends on food, water and what type of area your in as well. They may hunt a five mile area but clam allot more. Also that territory will shrink in dening season down to just a core area, but be defended allot more vigorously. Also some coyote territory's may over lap as well at some point.
Brent
We might be getting mixed up a little on our measurements. If a coyote around here had a territory of 20 miles, he would travel twice as far as from Nicholasville to Lexington to hunt. I don't believe they do that. Think about 5 to 6 square miles which could be a section 3 miles by 2 miles. Change that to a plot that is 5 miles long on 4 sides and you have 25 square miles, considerably more land. As Brent says, their territories overlap some and the terrain makes a difference. They tend to be perimeter oriented in this part of the country, with roads and fences helping define territories. When they disperse their pups in the fall, it won't take the boss dogs in a particular territory long to whip their ass if they don't move into a territory of their own. Take a walk 3 miles long and then across 2 miles, and then come back 3 miles on the line parallel to the first 3 mile jaunt, and then the final 2 miles back across to your starting point, and it will make you realize that 5 to 6 square miles is a bunch of territory. Around here, that will take up as many as 5 to 10 farms, a lot of hunting territory.