Hunting coyotes with pups?

RShaw · June 03, 2007, 12:59:26 PM

You know as well as I do, that every time you drop the tailgate, there is a chance that dog might not return. I've lost more hounds to cars than all other "problems" combined. But I don't go around running every car I see off the road just because a car was responsible for killing one of my hounds. And if a coyote did kill one, how could I be for certain I killed the one that did the deed?

I guess with that attitude, I could say deer are a problem. I hit the stupid things with my truck causing damage, loss of a vehcile, and an increase in my insurance. Sometimes as I approach a stand, I will jump one or some and they run snorting right through the area I wanted to call. May or may not hurt, but it sure lowers my confidence in that stand.In my opinion deer are just a nuisance, but I don't go around shooting every deer I see and declaring them a problem. Heck, I ain't shot one in over 40 years and I don't intend to start now. Problem or not.

Randy

Bopeye · June 03, 2007, 02:41:10 PM

Whatever that meant.............

The question is: Are the coyotes that attacked those dogs a problem? Basically that's a yes or no question, but feel from to give another two paragraph diatribe if you wish.

weedwalker · June 03, 2007, 02:43:52 PM

I hunt 'em all year. On some boards it's not PC to do that unless they are "problem" coyotes. So any excuse that will constitute a problem is good enough for me. That's my attitude and I'm stickin' too it !

I've also nailed a few deer with my vehicals, but so far NONE have attacked my dog.

RShaw · June 03, 2007, 05:20:25 PM

Had to get out the dictionary for a definition of diatribe.

Earlier I asked the question what is a problem coyote. After reading the replies, the answer to your question would be yes.

Three paragraphs restiricted to four sentences.

Randy

possumal · June 03, 2007, 07:01:44 PM

Quote from: Bopeye on June 03, 2007, 02:41:10 PM
Whatever that meant.............

The question is: Are the coyotes that attacked those dogs a problem? Basically that's a yes or no question, but feel from to give another two paragraph diatribe if you wish.

My answer would be yes, until I got one of them in my crosshairs. Then I'd be like old Weedwalker and remove the problem.

Bopeye · June 03, 2007, 09:03:11 PM

I guess I kinda came across as a smart alec there Randy, which I really wasn't intending to do. I guess I'm just a natural..

I'm just trying to see both sides of the coin.
Been trying to do that for years now and have heard a lot of personal convictions, but nothing really that persuades me from my own beliefs as of yet.

When I ran beagles, I know I had buddies lose dogs to them and talk about some guys taking it personal. I had to talk one moron out of putting tainted meat out to kill all the coyotes within 10 square miles. He finally realized that his dogs might just eat the stuff.........he finally changed his mind from it.

Even if we just go after "problem" coyotes, that is still something that is based on perception. Our perception is our reality.
Some folks would blame the coyote for global warming if they could, while others could catch a coyote with a rabbit in it's mouth and blame it on the rabbit.

Just some thoughts.

studabaka · June 03, 2007, 09:17:22 PM

I don't see these as 'problem' coyotes, if the definition of 'problem' is behaving outside their std behavior.... that said, what difference does it really make? If it's legal to hunt coyotes, it's legal to hunt coyotes. What need is a rationalization of 'problem'? Not trying to be a smart ass, just don't think you need to consider anything beyond a) the regulations and b) your personal view of what you are comfortable doing. We each define our own personal limits within the regs and coyotes are coyotes. End of story.

FinsnFur · June 03, 2007, 10:11:26 PM

Amen

keekee · June 04, 2007, 09:19:48 AM

Well said Stu!

Here if I get a call for a predator problem. Most of the time it is coons. Every once in awhile it will be a mink or weasel killing chickens but most of the calls are on coons that are killing chickens. Or they take up residence in a garage or eve of a house.

Most of the live stock calls on coyotes after they are checked out end up being a dog doing the killing not coyotes. Most of the live stock calls that are coyotes are goat or sheep farms. Very few cattle calls every work out to be coyotes. Allot of the time not all the time.

I get several calls a year of coyotes killing pets. Most of the time small dogs or cats. Urban coyotes are good for this. They set up shop right out side a sub division and start running down the streets in town. This stirs the neighborhood faster than anything.

Coyotes don't know the difference between a pet dog or cat and a rabbit. its all food to them or its related to a Territorial issue. All they know is this area they are in has allot of food and easy pickings. These coyotes get bold as well and almost use to people.

Killing other dogs and cats are natural to coyotes. Its there instinct. The more the coyote population grows here in the east the more of these type of things will happen. People here in the east just are not use to the coyotes and soon as they see one they tend to blame the coyotes for everything that happens.

Brent

possumal · June 04, 2007, 01:05:37 PM

We already know that not all coyotes kill calves, but when they get started doing it, it is bad news for the farmers. I am convinced that is why they have evolved and are bigger than when I started hunting them 14 years ago. Some of these big rascals, especially when packed up, can take a big calf down no problem. It is a simple matter of supply and demand. They have to eat and they would starve to death if they relied on rabbits, mice, and groundhogs. Brent is dead on right about the coyotes that live around subdivisions. They will come into someone's back yard and eat their pet's food, and eat the pet if he messes with them. Several years ago, they had a problem around Rabbit Run subdivision in Lexington with pets getting killed. Some mental geniuses on the neighborhood association hired some trappers to catch them in live traps and then take them to the country and turn them loose. They were getting paid $100.00 a head for their services. I wrote a letter to the editor telling them it wouldn't work, as the coyotes would navigate right back in short order. Hard telling how many times they paid $100.00 to have the same coyote trapped and removed before they figured out I was telling them the straight of it. A lot of farmers believe that the coyotes do them no harm. Let them wait a while and they will eventually change their mind about that when the food supply dwindles but the coyote numbers increase.

Greenside · June 04, 2007, 01:31:30 PM

Some mental geniuses on the neighborhood association hired some trappers to catch them in live traps and then take them to the country and turn them loose.

Are you sure they released them? That's probably what I would have told the homeowners.

Bopeye · June 04, 2007, 04:03:38 PM

Quote from: studabaka on June 03, 2007, 09:17:22 PM
just don't think you need to consider anything beyond a) the regulations and b) your personal view of what you are comfortable doing. We each define our own personal limits within the regs and coyotes are coyotes. End of story.

Well for crying out loud Stu........just what the heck is wrong with you?

Here we have been hashing and re-hashing this for years and you come on here and somehow find the right words to get us to agree? :shck:

Now what are we going to have a meaningful debate about? Thanks a lot PAL!!!

That's it boys.........Stu has solved the problem........

:roflmao:

I guess it's back to .17 HMR's boys.......Stu solved this one........let's go start that up.....maybe he can solve it too......

possumal · June 04, 2007, 05:44:40 PM

Quote from: Greenside on June 04, 2007, 01:31:30 PM

Some mental geniuses on the neighborhood association hired some trappers to catch them in live traps and then take them to the country and turn them loose.

Are you sure they released them? That's probably what I would have told the homeowners.

I didn't folllow the trappers to the country to check them out, but I know they paid for more trapped coyotes than they could possibly have had in that small area. If you talk to some old hound men who have sold dogs to guys who lived as far as 20 to 25 miles away, and the new owner had them get out of the pen, they show back up at the original owner's house. They must have a compass up their rear end.

My point to the homeowner's association was "How did they think the coyotes got there to begin with?" Taking them 10 to 20 miles out in the country is no guarantee they won't work their way back to where they were raised or where they had settled in. There were some bunny huggers in that association, but they eventually had to give on that point, and the trappers were instructed to dispose of them in some other way. I feel reasonably sure they ended up on their fur stretchers. The problem didn't reoccur, so that is my conclusion.

KySongDog · June 04, 2007, 07:56:26 PM

I thought coyotes had a normal range of 10 to 20 miles? Am I wrong here? Is their range smaller? Seems like taking them out 10 or 20 miles wouldn't accomplish much. Sorta like taking them from their front yard and putting them in their back yard.

possumal · June 04, 2007, 08:21:52 PM

Hey Semp: A coyote's range for his hunting territory is a lot different from how far he may travel to establish a territory, or to return to somewhere he has been removed from. I am reasonably sure that their hunting range around this part of the country is smaller than in the big, open western states. All the biologists I have talked to in this area feel that they have a hunting range of about 5 sq. miles, which is not far for a coyote to travel, but it is big enough to give them variety in where they hunt, different types of terrain and cover. It is hard telling how far they travel when dispersed in the fall and out looking to establish a mate and a terrirory of their own.

KySongDog · June 04, 2007, 09:37:19 PM

5 miles is a lot smaller than what I was thinking and puts a different perspective on things. Thanks, that's interesting.

Semp

keekee · June 04, 2007, 09:49:54 PM

There home territory depends on the coyote populations in they area your in. It can be 5 - 20 miles. It also depends on food, water and what type of area your in as well. They may hunt a five mile area but clam allot more. Also that territory will shrink in dening season down to just a core area, but be defended allot more vigorously. Also some coyote territory's may over lap as well at some point.

Brent

possumal · June 05, 2007, 08:02:44 AM

We might be getting mixed up a little on our measurements. If a coyote around here had a territory of 20 miles, he would travel twice as far as from Nicholasville to Lexington to hunt. I don't believe they do that. Think about 5 to 6 square miles which could be a section 3 miles by 2 miles. Change that to a plot that is 5 miles long on 4 sides and you have 25 square miles, considerably more land. As Brent says, their territories overlap some and the terrain makes a difference. They tend to be perimeter oriented in this part of the country, with roads and fences helping define territories. When they disperse their pups in the fall, it won't take the boss dogs in a particular territory long to whip their ass if they don't move into a territory of their own. Take a walk 3 miles long and then across 2 miles, and then come back 3 miles on the line parallel to the first 3 mile jaunt, and then the final 2 miles back across to your starting point, and it will make you realize that 5 to 6 square miles is a bunch of territory. Around here, that will take up as many as 5 to 10 farms, a lot of hunting territory.